[AceSim]

Seeing that i want to be in the game making business when i get older. As of right now i am only 15. i want to try to make some low end games just by myself Or make web games( like newgrounds.com or armorgames.com) i would like to use something easy. but not to simple. someone who is starting new with a lot of stuff to make/do.

This post has been edited by AceSim: 01 November 2010 - 04:31 PM

[coastie65]

Hey Ace, You'll need some utilities to do that. Best to search on the internet for those. I had some stuff for the Commodore 64 years ago, but didn't do much with it.

[AceSim]

coastie65, on 01 November 2010 - 04:08 PM, said:

Hey Ace, You'll need some utilities to do that. Best to search on the internet for those. I had some stuff for the Commodore 64 years ago, but didn't do much with it.

I always use Google before i ask things on the forums. I'm having a hard time to find stuff.

[Hoop]

Hi AceSim, do you have any experience with VB? Great and simple games out there is created by VB, though you'll need some time to get used to it, and have to learn a couple things or more before being able to create a real game, but it's a whole fun filled after that. Java and Flash are used in alot of websites as for games, Ads and mobile games. I was in your place before, having a great idea but unable to find a brick to start building, if you think you have some time, then you can start by saving money, I'm telling you that some of those programs/games creators aren't for free, then after that, try to get some info about them try googling by using keywords like: create VB games, you can put Java or Flash instead, you can find some e-books too if you finish your keywords by .pdf. You still have alot of time so don't rush it ok? The most important thing is patience, and of course having fun, good luck.

[Milmaru]

In order to code simple games, you will need to understand how to code. I do like the recommendations for Java and Flash because their learning curve is about medium and you can immediately jump into coding a game. I'm not sure about Flash's development environment, but Java has a few free IDEs (try Eclipse Classic http://www.eclipse.org/).

Personally, my first coding language was python. It's not meant for coding games, but the language can give you an easy start into developing code and it's IDE is also free. (http://www.python.org/)

And if you need some reading material, Google is your best friend.

[cyberknight]

AceSim, on 01 November 2010 - 04:02 PM, said:

Seeing that i want to be in the game making business when i get older. As of right now i am only 15. i want to try to make some low end games just by myself Or make web games( like newgrounds.com or armorgames.com) i would like to use something easy. but not to simple. someone who is starting new with a lot of stuff to make/do.

Well, what i'm gonna say about doesnt involve creating a total game but parts of it! If u want to create mobile games thats up to u. But its those big games that people are interested & pay for like Crysis, NFS, GTA, HALO, etc. Now most of these games involve 3D models. U cant jump into creating the whole game at once all by your own. If u see the credits u will know that many people are involved in creating parts of the game which are later combined. So u have to be a part of this team, make a spot for yourself! How..?? Learn to create 3D models, it'll pay a lot!
To begin with, u have to start modding i.e modifing components(eg. models) of games. Take for eg GTA, check out the various sites that offer mods. U can replace the existing carmodels with the ones u download. This step is to see if u find interest in the subject. If yes....read on. Now modding is done for free... but dont think thats the end. This is just the first step in learning how to create models. Just remember "learn from everyone, but copy from no one" else u will get into trouble!
These are the list of things that will get u going
Zmodeler2
TXD workshop
IMG tool 2
Zmodeler is for creating your 3D models, simple yet very powerful. For creating the textures use TXD workshop while the IMG tool is for editing img files in GTA. Start with GTA-VC. U will find an img file which is nothing but a library for in-game models n textures. For more help on how to use tools or appling mods, check sites like gtagarage, thegtaplace, grandtheftauto.filefront, gtamodding, gtagaming, etc. or search for tutorials.
Later on as u advance u will need
Collision editor 2
CFG studio 2
CFG studio will help u adjust handling of vehicles while the collision editor lets u create files that determine how a model reacts with its environment or behaves on impact.

[oldbard]

Start off simple with PHP using the w3schools tutorials. Add a little Javascript to the mix and you coul be making multi-player browser strategy games like this one:

The Grid - One Giant Risk-like board to Rule them All



This is a programmer's kind of web game.

[Evildave]

You could start with the Flex SDK (the programming subset of Flash - FREE).

Though you may as well use Flash. Since you're probably still in school, you can get a substantial discount on the 'Educational' edition. That has everything the 'real' edition has, except cheaper, and can't be upgraded. Fortunately, it's SO cheap that you can 'upgrade' by buying the next educational edition outright. Stay in school (forever) and you'll always get your Adobe tools cheap. They'll want your student ID.

There are literally a MILLION flash tutorials, both for making art, and for writing code. So there's no shortage of help. All just a google away. Which is important, because Flash initially sucks to learn. It's not intuitive. Here's a BIG HINT: NEVER WRITE CODE IN FLASH. Make a class in its own file, bind that class to a MovieClip. Edit it with an external editor.

Flash has the added benefits of being 'all in one', and supporting pretty much everything. With CS5.5, the iOS and Android exports should work nicely. You can put your game right up on a web site to share it.

And you can fill in the gaps in your income making dumb interactive websites. Though this is hell, as the kind of people you end up doing this work for are generally clueless dimwits who need infinite, never-ending hand-holding. (i.e. 'normal people')

Also, get yourself a version control system. Several sites will host subversion repositories for free, and the svn clients are generally free, too. Doing any kind of programming, use version control. You will ALWAYS be needing to see what changed since some bug appeared. Also, it allows straight-forward collaboration on projects.

While you're at it, try to make friends with an artist or two. Get them to crank out your backgrounds and characters and stuff. The one thing that will outright sink a game is 'programmer art'. Flash artists also have marketable skills, especially artists who know how to use version control, who can put up with prorgrammers. So they're learning something useful, too.

Some other FREE things you'll be interested in...

http://osflash.org/projects

The GIMP
Audacity
ImageMagick
jEdit
FlashDevelop
OpenOffice/LibreOffice (their Draw and Presentation apps will export Flash swf, and it's a free office suite.)

[Evildave]

As for making money on mobile games, while many people 'diss' the Apple and Android marketplaces, they're probably the fairest shake you'll get as an indie game developer. You will GET your cut. Most other situations, you will get shafted, and THEY will laugh all the way to the bank about how completely they screwed you.

For a 'PC Game', as mentioned above, you'll be an interchangeable cog in a corporate machine. If you want to see your soul ripped from your body and crushed before your eyes, then fed to indifferent animals, go work for a 'big' game company. I've worked for Sierra On-Line and EA, and many 'small' companies in between (EA was the worst, BTW). If you know what you're doing, the little companies will appreciate you. The big ones will work you to death, then indifferently lay you off along with the whole team you were working with, except for the real douchebags who made life miserable. If you hear words to the effect of 'work-life balance', that means work, work, and nothing but work, until you die. Just walk out the door. Don't even say good-bye. You don't owe anyone anything for going to a job interview.

You can set up your own website pretty darned cheap, and include advertising to pay your way,

Oh, and get and pay for your OWN health insurance. Most employers will pay into that for you while you work for them, but you'll stay insured after you're laid off, because COBRA sucks. If you work for other people, plan to be laid off A LOT in the gaming industry. No matter how many weeks of all-nighters you pull, no matter how heroic your efforts, no matter how great the game is, expect to be shown the door. There's no job security, so always keep that resume up-to-date.

Oh, and stay in school. Take business management related classes. As a mere programmer, you will never advance in the ranks. Ever. Other than being hired into a job as more of a programmer. Middle management has more influence on design than anyone. They have the power, so they jerk around the game design all they want, until the next level of managers has a look, and needs to put their thumbprint on the product.

[Hoop]

Evildave, on 17 April 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

As for making money on mobile games, while many people 'diss' the Apple and Android marketplaces, they're probably the fairest shake you'll get as an indie game developer. You will GET your cut. Most other situations, you will get shafted, and THEY will laugh all the way to the bank about how completely they screwed you.

For a 'PC Game', as mentioned above, you'll be an interchangeable cog in a corporate machine. If you want to see your soul ripped from your body and crushed before your eyes, then fed to indifferent animals, go work for a 'big' game company. I've worked for Sierra On-Line and EA, and many 'small' companies in between (EA was the worst, BTW). If you know what you're doing, the little companies will appreciate you. The big ones will work you to death, then indifferently lay you off along with the whole team you were working with, except for the real douchebags who made life miserable. If you hear words to the effect of 'work-life balance', that means work, work, and nothing but work, until you die. Just walk out the door. Don't even say good-bye. You don't owe anyone anything for going to a job interview.

You can set up your own website pretty darned cheap, and include advertising to pay your way,

Oh, and get and pay for your OWN health insurance. Most employers will pay into that for you while you work for them, but you'll stay insured after you're laid off, because COBRA sucks. If you work for other people, plan to be laid off A LOT in the gaming industry. No matter how many weeks of all-nighters you pull, no matter how heroic your efforts, no matter how great the game is, expect to be shown the door. There's no job security, so always keep that resume up-to-date.

Oh, and stay in school. Take business management related classes. As a mere programmer, you will never advance in the ranks. Ever. Other than being hired into a job as more of a programmer. Middle management has more influence on design than anyone. They have the power, so they jerk around the game design all they want, until the next level of managers has a look, and needs to put their thumbprint on the product.

Wither that was black humour or your life, nicest tips! I always thought that working at EA would be awesome...

[Evildave]

That's over 20 years of direct, first person, real world experience talking.

Stay independent, or at least stick to small teams working on projects that they can handle. Preferably one programmer, one or two artists.

And without the management training, you will remain a worker bee. Which may be good, since the programming is fun. But then again, in a big company, you will never have any 'say'. You will never have any creative input. There are 'meetings', but these are mainly to dictate what you'll be doing. They will ask for technical input, you will give it, they will ignore it. Creative design meetings are all about giving input, then having the 'boss' reject it all and run with his/her own plan. Some of them will artfully try to make it look like their plan was the consensus, but it's all about 'buy-in', which means, the boss says so, and you say 'yes'. No matter how many 'designers' they have, the managers will generally design the game. The game that they will invariably 'design' will be whatever this person played most recently. Not that they won't CHANGE THEIR MINDS at least once a week, making sure nothing ever gets finished, and there's always a healthy list of 'bugs'.

"Is this schedule possible?"
"No."
"Well, that's the schedule you have."

No, there won't be sleeping bags. They don't want that kind of thing cluttering up their office space and giving bad impressions with the investors and potential new hires who will be put off with EVIDENCE of the way things actually work. With a company like EA, there is churn and layoffs and re-hiring more people as they burn them out. They don't expect you to sleep there. They don't expect you to go home, either. They'll burn your weekends and rule your every waking hour, and have some bland, tepid 'food' delivered sometimes to make it 'all better'.

The great games aren't made by 'huge' teams. They're made by small ones. Huge teams include a LOT of people either sitting on their hands or meddling, and a SMALL team doing all of the work. Two or three people might make the game, but the credits will roll on and on. I've written games myself (freelance) and had one artist work part-time, and had to put in 30K of names into the credits, including 'testers' for non-existent 'online' capabilities. There's your 'huge' team.

The big corporate jobs will be wasting a year of your life incrementing the number on the end of an 'intellectual property', that barely looks different from the last iteration.

Read Dilbert. The most insane, stupid things in that comic are a precise representation of corporate life for an engineer of any sort faces.
http://www.dilbert.com/

Small games are fun to work on. Big games suck.

[coastie65]

There are some utilities available for making your own games. TES Constrution Set in the Elder Scrolls games from Bethesda is a good tool for that. I believe they also have a tool in the The Witcher ( you are too young to play that ). The point is, you can find these tools in the games or in the case of Bethesda, at their website. Incidently, TES is "The Elder Scrolls" and is for modding and even writing a new adventure.

[coastie65]

Evildave, on 18 April 2011 - 12:25 AM, said:

That's over 20 years of direct, first person, real world experience talking.

Stay independent, or at least stick to small teams working on projects that they can handle. Preferably one programmer, one or two artists.

And without the management training, you will remain a worker bee. Which may be good, since the programming is fun. But then again, in a big company, you will never have any 'say'. You will never have any creative input. There are 'meetings', but these are mainly to dictate what you'll be doing. They will ask for technical input, you will give it, they will ignore it. Creative design meetings are all about giving input, then having the 'boss' reject it all and run with his/her own plan. Some of them will artfully try to make it look like their plan was the consensus, but it's all about 'buy-in', which means, the boss says so, and you say 'yes'. No matter how many 'designers' they have, the managers will generally design the game. The game that they will invariably 'design' will be whatever this person played most recently. Not that they won't CHANGE THEIR MINDS at least once a week, making sure nothing ever gets finished, and there's always a healthy list of 'bugs'.

"Is this schedule possible?"
"No."
"Well, that's the schedule you have."

No, there won't be sleeping bags. They don't want that kind of thing cluttering up their office space and giving bad impressions with the investors and potential new hires who will be put off with EVIDENCE of the way things actually work. With a company like EA, there is churn and layoffs and re-hiring more people as they burn them out. They don't expect you to sleep there. They don't expect you to go home, either. They'll burn your weekends and rule your every waking hour, and have some bland, tepid 'food' delivered sometimes to make it 'all better'.

The great games aren't made by 'huge' teams. They're made by small ones. Huge teams include a LOT of people either sitting on their hands or meddling, and a SMALL team doing all of the work. Two or three people might make the game, but the credits will roll on and on. I've written games myself (freelance) and had one artist work part-time, and had to put in 30K of names into the credits, including 'testers' for non-existent 'online' capabilities. There's your 'huge' team.

The big corporate jobs will be wasting a year of your life incrementing the number on the end of an 'intellectual property', that barely looks different from the last iteration.

Read Dilbert. The most insane, stupid things in that comic are a precise representation of corporate life for an engineer of any sort faces.
http://www.dilbert.com/

Small games are fun to work on. Big games suck.

Good post(s) and very insightful. I have seen games from seemingly "Big" teams ( I do read the credits ) that should have been good, but the bugs killed it ( Fallout: New Vegas comes to mind ). I think this is a direct result of far too many people involved in smaller increments of the game and a lack of communication between the various factions as it were. When it is assembled, it falls apart due to the bugs ( the pieces don't work well together ). Granted these are some thoughts from someone who has never been involved in that sort of thing and doesn't know exactly how things work, just that sometimes, they don't work well.