[jlavigne23]

Hi, I'm new around... just got a forward chain email about this :To those who have Windows Vista, is it true that Microsoft have implemented some anti-piracy systems/files !??!Windows Vista, the brand new OS from Microsoft, is loaded with protection systems/files for anti-piracy, illegal copying and content blocking after MPAA, RAA and SGAE (to name just them) have made a lot of pressures and lobbying to fight piracy. These systems/files have been integrated in the basic programming core of Vista, which render them really hard to delete or to bypass.This brings the results that if you install or buy a PC with pre-installed Windows Vista, you will not be able to watch or record videos nor listen and record music downloaded from Internet. Also, if you bought the content LEGALLY you still wont be able because of the integrated DRM (Digital Rights Management) system will not permit to copy a song or DVD on you MP3 player, or to copy songs from your LEGAL collection of CDs for you car CD player... Also, you wont be able to record a LEGALLY bought movie on your PC unless its burnt with an authorized burner, approved by Microsoft. If you do try to copy and burn, often the quality is less or simply impossible... Also, there were rumors that the information you have on your PC (cookies, web sites visited, software, etc...) could be transmitted to law enforcement like the FBI or RCMP in Canada...The only safe solution to fight this abuse is to NOT install Windows Vista or to refuse a pre-installed version on a new PC. Continue to use Windows XP or merge to a free OS like Linux.So, my question... did Microsoft went all the way with that ? I mean, is Vista linked to these law enforcement agencies or it's PURELY fiction ?!?

[Trebuchet]

The DRM stuff I can't address (I've seen articles saying everything from "It's the End Of Computing As We Know It!" to "This is way overrated."The law enforcement stuff is pure conspiracy theory crap. Get out the tinfoil hats. :)

[Cosmo]

Following DRM is up to you. Vista doesn't know the difference between legit movies and pirated ones. All Vista sees is binary, not a pirate's hat and scull and crossbones.

[Wayfinder]

Pardon, no offense intended, but I don't think either of these posts answered the question directly or accurately.There is no conspiracy theory nor foil hat psychosis involved here. Vista DRM is very real and is one of the main complaints that are being heard about Vista. Why? Not because Vista effectively fights piracy-- but because reports are coming in of it blocking legitimate use of purchased information.We've seen such things before from Windows. Remember when Windows Media Player refused to RIP CDs that you yourself purchased and owned because of paranoia regarding CD piracy? Eventually, it appears they overcame such paranoia... realizing people were flat going to rip CDs anyway. Well, take that paranoia, multiply it and re-lable it "DRM"... and the tech grapevine has it that's what's involed with Vista. I've heard angry shout outs against DRM since the day Vista hit the market-- some predictably from pirates-- but a great deal from legitimate users who were just trying to get their system to do what they want it to do.One of the most constant and most irritating examples of such is that repetitious NAG screen... "If you realy wanted the system to do what you just told it to do, click me so I can tell it to do it again". I appreciate the thought, because there has been all too much going on behind the scenes that the users have been unaware of. But EVERY SINGLE TIME I USE THE SAME PROGRAM I HAVE USED EVERY SINGLE DAY SINCE I INSTALLED THE SYSTEM?Give us a break. Micro$oft is developing a real reputation for nagware. They seriously need to re-think that concept and find a good middle ground. So yeah, bottom line, DRM is a problem. General concensus is it's putting bars on the doors and even the homeowner can't get in.[edited for spelling errors that were driving me nuts. LOL. No other content was changed.]

[ImaPhake]

Saying "Following DRM is up to you" is incorrect. Vista has a slew of paranoid routines within it which can and will treat honest users as though they are pirates!Microsoft has designed Vista in such a way that even if every component you have is compliant with HDCP, you still might not be able to play your legitimately purchased and owned material on your new, expensive PC system.The nVidia and ATI "HDCP compliant" GPU card scandals are just a tiny peek at Microsoft's titanic DRM scheme which Vista heralds. Microsoft has been trying (very successfully) to keep their ultimate aims regarding DRM and so-called "premium content" from being exposed to the public-at-large. Whether you want it or not, it's in there (Vista).Read the following: "A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection" by Peter Gutmann if you want to have your eyes opened to the true nature of the DRM that is skulking beneathe that shiny Aero interface.http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

[73transamsd]

I'm not sure about all that stuff yet. I have Vista and I have been able to use Limewire for downloading non copyrighted stuff and I try to find some of my favorite tv shows that I missed on there sometimes. I cannot, however, get torrents to work for the life of me. But it says something about my firewall and I'm not a techie so I don't really know how to tweak it. I haven't tried playing DVD movies on my computer yet so I'm not sure if it works or not. I'll try tonight. I have not found a way to make a dvd with my FLV flash videos yet. I downloaded some videos from youtube like car burnouts and stuff and want to make a dvd with them so I can show a friend at work but it absolutley will not allow me to make a dvd with those files. I'm not sure if that is a Vista thing or if that is just the way it is though.

[Wayfinder]

[quote name='rkinne01']By the way i didn't address you directly with my first post, sorry if you felt I did. I was addressing anyone who presents these rampant myths about Vista. Re-read the post I NEVER mentioned your name at any point. Once again I apologize if you felt attacked but I don't apologize for posting my opinion.QUOTE:"Wayfinder, you don't make any sense at all!... The majority of the posts I have found with data problem are a result of program conflicts and usually easily fixed problems or people are not very computer literate in the 1st place. Please stop coming on to the boards and posting misinformation, its clear that you don't know what you are talking about."LOL Like the moderator said, this is a professional forum. I have neither need nor desire to debate this further with you. I believe it would be a waste of time and effort.

[rkinne01]

Been using Vista since Beta and have NOT had any trouble playing CD's or ripping them with either Media Player or third party apps so down with that lie.DVD's play just fine and in fact look much better on Vista than they did with XP. I have not tried Blue Ray or HD DVD so I cannot comment on those formats. Vista has its own dvd decoding software so you no longer need to purchase third party software/hardwareI just tried using a P2P program to download a video and audio file, both played with no problems what so ever. I did have to adjust my firewall to allow the downloads, no big deal had to do the same with XP. I wouldn't be surprised though if eventually Microsoft did put in heavy anti-piracy blocks. I think that Riaa and the Motion Picture Industry will eventually demand, after all MANY people are using MS products to break the law. Microsoft will get hit first then it'll be MAC followed by Linux. Its not a question of IF it'll happen but when it will, I'm surprised it hasn't already.While we're on the subject is UAC really THAT bad? Cripes, a screen pops you press a button and you're done, takes a second to do. I'm used to it now doesn't bother me and in fact I appreciate this program it has saved my bacon a few times.

[Wayfinder]

[quote name='rkinne01']Been using Vista since Beta and have NOT had any trouble playing CD's or ripping them with either Media Player or third party apps so down with that lie.> > I have to wonder why it is that because some user personally doesn't have any problems with something, he feels justified in calling other people "liars". Your personal experiences do not form the whole conglomerate of Vista performance. Vista is documented and widely known to have severe compatibility problems on both the software and hardware level. And I don't think thousands of users are just making stuff up or "lying". You love Vista? Great. More power to ya... until your first failure to run something you really, really need to run. For me, Vista is right up there with Windows ME, was wiped from my system just as quickly, and is the very first release that has me strongly considering switching to Linux... or even Apple. And all the propaganda from Micro$oft sycophants isn't going to change the fact that users are screaming-- not just here but in forums all over the net.

[rgreen4]

People, People, People - the article about Vista and DRM referred to HDCP. If any component, even the HDMI cable are not fully compliant, then the device will play in CD quality mode not HD mode. Of course I don't know about Linux, but MacOS doesn't even recognize HD CD players yet.I am currently listening to music playing from my network drive over wireless on my Vista machine that I just ripped from my CD onto the drive earlier this afternoon. I can listen to it on any of my PC's. Of course the Vista machine has the better graphics and sound. Some of the problems people are encountering are more likely DRIVERS - that is a real concern for older machines on Vista.

[rkinne01]

Wayfinder, you don't make any sense at all! Ripping CD's is still a function of Media Player as is DVD viewing. You say there are thousands of people posting they cannot access media: my question is where are these people? I've scoured the Vista user groups and found few posts about people not being able to use thier audio/video files. The majority of the posts I have found with data problem are a result of program conflicts and usually easily fixed problems or people are not very computer literate in the 1st place. Please stop coming on to the boards and posting misinformation, its clear that you don't know what you are talking about. As far as Vista being campared to ME, Vista has been out only a few months, its a bit early to make that comparison isn't it? Rgreen is 100% correct, a mojority of the "problems" with VIsta are driver related, as more drivers are bought up to date the problems will begin to disappear. I am not saying Vista is perfect but then neither is Linux or Mac OS X. Go ahead try Linux, its nice but its a pain to install (I know I tried), compatiable software can be hard to find, and the tech support is a massive joke. I've no real interest in Mac's I don't like that EVERYTHING is intergrated (if monitor goes out you're screwed) and not to mention that Apple is still too tight in allowing any licenssing of thier product. Also as far as Hi Def movies go, who wants to watch a Movie on a compter screen anyway? I think its safe to say most people still only have 17 inch monitors which are too small to watch a movie on.

[Wayfinder]

[quote name='rkinne01']Wayfinder, you don't make any sense at all! Ripping CD's is still a function of Media Player as is DVD viewing. You say there are thousands of people posting they cannot access media: my question is where are these people? I've scoured the Vista user groups and found few posts about people not being able to use thier audio/video files. "Rkinne01", I note a couple of similarities between you and "Rgreen". Aside from the obvious name similarity and the fact that you both joined the forums one month apart (LOL... oops!), apparently neither one of you (or just you, depending) properly read the original message-- and you're arguing against something that was never said in the first place. The same person using an alternate identity to back up his own statements is an old forum trick. Whether you're actually using that trick or not really doesn't matter at this point-- because you're arguing against a statement you devised yourself (I certainly never made such claim). Go back, re-read. Attributing a false position to your opposition is an often-used on-the-fly debate technique, but doesn't really work on forums because well, people can go back and re-read the original statements. LOL> {quote:title=rkinne01 wrote:}{quote}Also as far as Hi Def movies go, who wants to watch a Movie on a compter screen anyway? I think its safe to say most people still only have 17 inch monitors which are too small to watch a movie on.You appear to be equating the activities of all computer users with your own personal experience and opinion. You don't watch hidef on your computer, so why would anyone else? Sorry for the shock, but I watch ALL my media on my hi-def, computer-compatible LCD TV/monitors (26" and 32"). I use my computer to watch my DVDs and use my computer to record favorite TV shows using my hidef video capture cards. And I think it's "safe to say" that many, many thousands of people do the same thing, using their computer-compatible hidef LCD-TVs as multimedia systems (you HAVE heard of using a computer as a multimedia entertainment center, yes? Wave of the present). No, not everyone is using a 17" monitor.> {quote:title=rkinne01 wrote:}{quote}The majority of the posts I have found with data problem are a result of program conflicts and usually easily fixed problems or people are not very computer literate in the 1st place. Please stop coming on to the boards and posting misinformation, its clear that you don't know what you are talking about. I doubt someone who appears to be unaware of the multimedia revolution would be qualified to call anyone else "computer illiterate". That entire statement is just typical "I'm the only one with a brain" troll posting. So since I seriously doubt you have a couple decades+ of computer expertise under your belt, you and I are finished talking.

[rgreen4]

The original post said that because of DRM in Vista that you could not watch DVD's or rip CD's while running Vista.jlavigne23[quote:161a321e94]This brings the results that if you install or buy a PC with pre-installed Windows Vista, you will not be able to watch or record videos nor listen and record music downloaded from Internet. Also, if you bought the content LEGALLY you still wont be able because of the integrated DRM (Digital Rights Management) system will not permit to copy a song or DVD on you MP3 player, or to copy songs from your LEGAL collection of CDs for you car CD player[/quote:161a321e94]My reply was that just that afternoon I had ripped content off several CD's and had put them not only on my Vista PC, but on my network drive. I also addressed the issue of watching DVD's on a Vista PC by pointing out an article about HD DVD and Vista. All components of the system must be HDMA compliant - HDDVD Rom, Video Player Program, HDMI cable (component will not work) and Display device (TV or Monitor). If any component is not HDMA complient, then the DVD plays in standard mode, not Hi Def. This is different than "will not play". I and many others have watched Regular DVD's on Vista machines using Media Player 11. Yes many people do watch DVD's played from a PC, yes some (including me) have a Media Center or Media Capable PC that can record and play to a TV. I have not hooked mine up that way (yet). I actually have a DVR built into my Satellite Receiver which is hooked to a DVD recorder. I will then burn a DVD/RW and copy it onto my PC which is in the office, not have migrated to the LR yet. As for rkinne01 and my self being the same person, as the lawyer shows would say - "Facts not in evidence". If you don't change your post name, PCWorld will use the first part of your internet login as your post name. Hence the cut off all past the @, and I became RGreen. I have considered changing it, but after more than 100 posts, it might be confusing to those following other threads. I imagine rkinne01 got his post name the same way, BUT WE ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON.Based on your logic, anyone who uses part of their internet login as their post name and it starts with an "r" and made their first post in October and November of 2006 would be the same person.

[rkinne01]

Wayfinder of you'd take the time to look at the IP addresses for myself and Rgreen you'd notice that they are both different, yet another of your half baked assumptions flushed away.As far as my comment about Monitors, I meant to say most people have 36 inch TV's and 17 inch monitors and if given a choice they'll watch the videos on the larger TV. If you've got a 22 or even a 60 inch plasma monitor for your PC great watch from there ,but most people don't have the larger set ups.RGreen and I have made valid points based upon on our own experiences, I've even poked around looking for posts that would prove your point! All you've done is come here and made wild claims and presented no facts to back them up. Sorry Wayfinder but you've lost you way!As I have said many times DRM is a reality we may not like but for the foreseeable future its here to stay and we should be thankful that its not worse than it is now.

[Wayfinder]

(Rgreen, for the record, I saw nothing in your posts that was offensive or trollish, so if you are indeed a totally differen person, my apologies for your getting dragged into this. Your posts have been mere statement of opinion and what facts are available and agree or disagree-- I surely have no problem with that. That said... please ignore the following response to him who seems mightily confused. :DLOL. Rkinne, if you had all the computer saavy you claim to have, you would know that IP addresses mean zip. So you log in from both home and work. Duh. LOL. BUSTED! That nonsense aside, it's attitude and what you decide to post that is the issue. You claim to post data (not opinions, on no!) and that others aren't. LOL. Gimme a break guy. For the record: you addressed ME directly, not the first post of this thread. You told me I didn't know what I was talking about and told me to not post here. That's where my tolerance of the ill-behaved ends. Contrary to your claims, there was nothing of my "opinion" in my original post. I stated purely and simply the problems people are having with DRM, past Micro$oft programming attitudes and the existing problem of Micro$oft nagware-- something just about any qualified tech (or everyday computer user) can verify. Nothing of this is unknown. While you can disagree with others all you want (and I'll even stand up for your right to do so) you are expected to grant others that same privilege. As it stands, you're way out of line. "What I meant to say" doesn't alter what you said. So rant on. No matter what your personal opinion... people are angry with Vista. And there's good reason they are. And there is nothing unfactual about either of those statements. While Micro$oft undoubtedly has the propaganda engine in its pocket, there's no denying the problems with Vista compatibility and performance. I wrote Micro$oft a 4-page letter detailing significant Vista issues... issues gained from my own experience, feedback from my clients and from other techs. Those issues weren't made up just for the sheer joy of it. Vista has problems. If you're not personally having problems-- hey great! My guess is you either haven't hit the wall yet... or you're the one lying about your experiences-- not us.Not everyone has the ability to hack deep internal registry code to get the system to perform exactly as they want it. Most people look for an out-of-the-box OS that does what it needs to do. When it doesn't, when it causes them problems, when it won't let them use programs they've used for the last 5 years or makes them jump through hoops every time they want to do something, day after day... people are not going to be happy.

[rkinne01]

Great you sent in a 4 page letter to Microsoft prove it by posting iit here.

[Wayfinder]

[quote name='rkinne01']Great you sent in a 4 page letter to Microsoft prove it by posting iit here.Why, just to give you fuel for further insults? LOL Like anyone could "prove" anything to you. In your posts you haven't proven anything. We're supposed to just take your word that Vista works fine for you? Uh huh. You don't respect the findings of others, why should we respect your opinon? Hey, take a hike dude. If you can't see any problems with Vista, you're either wearing blinders or just yanking our chain like a monkey throwing poo for the reaction it gets. So 'scuse me if I don't give you any bananas. LOL

[AuroraDizon]

Guys, remember there are no personal attacks on here. Lets keep it professional.

[rkinne01]

I have proven my point. I have tested media formats to see what works in Vista and what doesn't, which was the whole point of this thread. If you show your 4 pages I'll look into each item on your list objectively and admit when i am wrong. All I've asked for is some concrete evidence for these supposed DRM schemes, thats all! Please let us know what apps you had trouble with? What didn't play? What trouble shooting steps did you take?I'd be more than happy to look at these problems, I enjoy a good challenge.By the way i didn't address you directly with my first post, sorry if you felt I did. I was addressing anyone who presents these rampant myths about Vista. Re-read the post I NEVER mentioned your name at any point. Once again I apologize if you felt attacked but I don't apologize for posting my opinion.

[Cosmo]

To clear some things up, "Wayfinder, you don't make any sense at all!" is not a personal attack, it's a statement.rkinne01 and rgreen 4 have completely different IPs, and they have completely different ISPs.If there is something in Vista that prevents you from playing pirated movies, it has yet to appear, or it just doesn't work. I'm watching a "backed up" movie as I type.Who in the heck would spend $1200 on a friggen HD-DVD/Blue Ray player for their computer and the adapters and the expensive+ graphics card necessary to watch HD movies on their HDTV when it's cheaper just to buy the player. Seriously, if you have one for your computer, I want to know why you spent the money on it.And finally, Al Gore is a retard and I don't know why anyone would pay attention to him.