[Wayfinder]

[quote name='Cosmo']To clear some things up, > > "Wayfinder, you don't make any sense at all!" is not a personal attack, it's a statement.> > " Please stop coming on to the boards and posting misinformation, its clear that you don't know what you are talking about." Cosmo, this is a statement: I don't know how you became a member-moderator. LOL. Get the point?Those are absolutely attacks. It has nothing to do with fact, data, or anything beyond that user's inflamnatory opinion. Agreed, the first was rather mild, but the follow-up statements (which somehow you chose to ignore) were by no means mild. Come on guy, get real.[quote:35efee7a8d]rkinne01 and rgreen 4 have completely different IPs, and they have completely different ISPs.[/quote:35efee7a8d]I think that's already been covered, explained and done with, isnt' it Cos? Getting in a litle late on the conversation? ;) Let me reiterate: IF a person wants to support his own opinion on the forums (and I am not saying that's what has happened here) all he has to do is log in from both work and home. Different IP addresses, different ISP. Come on Cosmo, surely you're already aware of that, yes? Happens on forums ALL--THE--TIME. Shoot Cos, you yourself could be the same guy using an alt. LOL. Should be pretty obvious that such a thing is technically possible. I'm not making accusations. Just pointing out that we are computer techs and not absolutely stupid. LOL LOL LOL[quote:35efee7a8d]Who in the heck would spend $1200 on a friggen HD-DVD/Blue Ray player for their computer and the adapters and the expensive graphics card necessary to watch HD movies on their HDTV when it's cheaper just to buy the player. Seriously, if you have one for your computer, I want to know why you spent the money on it. [/quote:35efee7a8d]Aside from the fact that I didnt' do so, never claimed to do so, have never argued to do so (who is the "you" you're talking about here?), the point is Cosmo... it is totally irrelevant as to WHY some user decided to buy this or that piece of hardware. It is irrelevant whether you or others agree with that choice. What is relevant is whether or not Vista prevents that piece of hardware from working, no matter what that piece of hardware is or WHY the person wants to use it. This is not the only forum post that has complained about Vista in this particular area. I have seen many posts on the forums where users are complaining about not being able to back up their own CDs and DVDs on Vista. Now I would have to say they're not just making that stuff up. And certain individuals being able to do so is also irrelevant. It is totally irrelevant that you, Rgreen and Rskinned have succeeded at burning such. (Using any special non-standard software, anyone?) Whether YOU succeeded or not is totally irrelevant. Obviously the guy that posted this thread DIDN'T, and from forum posts elsewhere, it is apparent he's not the only one. So give him a break. I've had all kinds of problems with Vista and I assure you, after 2 decades in software development and tech support, I do tend to know what I'm doing. (and no Rskinne, I'm not going to provide you "proof" of my work experience. LOL). Chee, some people...If 50% of the people can and 50% of the people can't (just as an example) there is obviously a problem somewhere. And it is not the right nor privilege of any person to insult the intelligence, computer literacy or skill of another user just because they are having trouble getting Vista to work.The purpose of a moderator is to control problems, not encourage them. ;)

[Cosmo]

[quote name='Wayfinder']> > Cosmo, this is a statement: I don't know how you became a member-moderator. LOL. Get the point?> > I don't know how that happened either ;)> {quote:title=Wayfinder wrote:}{quote}> > Different IP addresses, different ISP. Come on Cosmo, surely you're already aware of that, yes? Happens on forums ALL--THE--TIME. Shoot Cos, you yourself could be the same guy using an alt. LOL. Should be pretty obvious that such a thing is technically possible. I'm not making accusations. Just pointing out that we are computer techs and not absolutely stupid.> > I'm not finding any proxies on the IP ranges, or TOR nodes. And if it was the same guy, he'd be driving a few thousand miles everyday to logon somewhere else ;)> {quote:title=Wayfinder wrote:}{quote}> > Aside from the fact that I didnt' do so, never claimed to do so, have never argued to do so (who is the "you" you're talking about here?), the point is Cosmo... it is totally irrelevant as to WHY some user decided to buy this or that piece of hardware. It is irrelevant whether you or others agree with that choice. What is relevant is whether or not Vista prevents that piece of hardware from working, no matter what that piece of hardware is or WHY the person wants to use it. Also for the record, I have seen many posts on the forums where users are complaining about not being able to back up their own CDs and DVDs on Vista. Now I would have to say they're not just making that stuff up. And certain individuals being able to do so is also irrelevant. If 50% of the people can and 50% of the people can't (just as an example) there is obviously a problem somewhere. And it is not the right nor privilege of any person to insult the intelligence, computer literacy or skill of another user just because they are having trouble getting Vista to work.> > I've seen posts like that on other forums. It's not Vista, it's they don't know what they are doing. I've ripped CDs, and "backed up" some of my DVDs (Outside the US of course ;) ) with Vista, and have never run into this mythical program that magically prevents you from doing so. The only antipiracy junk built into Vista is to make sure that your HD components are compliant, and if they aren't, then you can't watch movies in HD (but in order to do so, you'd need the setup I described to begin with). Burning and ripping CDs/DVDs have nothing to do with it.> {quote:title=Wayfinder wrote:}{quote}> > The purpose of a moderator is to control problems, not encourage them. ;)I'm not encouraging any problems, I'm encouraging a healthy debate. If you don't want to participate, then by all means, don't.Cheers,Cosmo

[Wayfinder]

[quote:cb849cf0b6]I'm not encouraging any problems, I'm encouraging a healthy debate. If you don't want to participate, then by all means, don't.[/quote:cb849cf0b6]There is nothing "healthy" about this debate Cosmo. And since as "moderator" you've seemed to miss the point here, I think I'll take your advice and spend my time elsewhere. Not much of value in this thread.

[KellieCM]

Sigh.Differences of opinion are allowed. You are encouraged to debate issues. You're even allowed to argue about them in a heated, passionate manner. However, when the conversation turns to debating the intelligence (or lack thereof) of other community members, the debate has crossed the line. When it gets personal, it's over the line.Example:"You are totally wrong, and here's why..." -- is fine."You are totally wrong because you're a total idiot..." -- is not.It is easy to feel attacked in a situation like this, even when you aren't actually being attacked. It is easy to suspect, or even accuse people of being alts. I ask you all to assume good will -- assume that the other person didn't intend to attack you, hurt your feelings, cause trouble or generally break the standards here. I didn't see any attacking behavior on the part of Cosmo. If you ever have a question or concern about one of the moderators here, please feel free to PM or email me. I fully understand that they are individuals and I expect them to express their own opinions, even when they are controversial. I do also, however, expect them to follow the community standards just like any other member.Now. Let's be friends and play nice. If you have further questions or concerns, please let me know.

[TheNameless]

You love me, I love you, lalalalala.Just trying to break the ice.Read what Kellie said. Live by it.Though I myself tend to make sure that I don't make any statements that would be taken the wrong way, we can't tell you what to do beyond the rules.Just my $.02.

[Wayfinder]

[quote name='kellie']Sigh.> > Differences of opinion are allowed. You are encouraged to debate issues. You're even allowed to argue about them in a heated, passionate manner. However, when the conversation turns to debating the intelligence (or lack thereof) of other community members, the debate has crossed the line. When it gets personal, it's over the line.> > > > I didn't see any attacking behavior on the part of Cosmo. If you ever have a question or concern about one of the moderators here, please feel free to PM or email me.As a note, I did not accuse Cosmo of making attacks. I questioned his failure to moderate prior attacks. You stepped in Kellie in true professional moderator manner. Appreciated.(For the record, did try to find the "main moderator" or a "contact the forum host" link, but couldn't find anything. May have just overlooked it somewhere... otherwise I'd have contacted a moderator first thing. Some forums have a "report this post" option on each message. I've found that feature really cuts down on trolling, because users know that not only can a moderator be notified-- that particular message can be highlighted. Tends to make people behave. :D Trolling isn't something I find often on this forum, so not acquainted with where the links are here.)

[Cosmo]

[quote name='Wayfinder']As a note, I did not accuse Cosmo of making attacks. I questioned his failure to moderate prior attacks. You stepped in Kellie in true professional moderator manner. Appreciated.I'm not on 24/7, I only get on the forums maybe 4 or 5 times a week. If I miss something, feel more than welcome to bring it to my attention, or the attention of any other forum staff member. The easiest way to report something is clicking the member list link at the top of the forums, and Kellie is listed third.

[KellieCM]

Wayfinder, I agree that it's a good feature. It's something that we will likely be implementing in the future. For now, as Cosmo said, I'm third in the memberlist. You can send me a PM from there as well as an email, or you can email directly to forums@pcworld.com and it will come to my inbox.

[ImaPhake]

Normally, I wouldn't dredge up an old thread, so forgive me for doing so.My reason for doing this is twofold:1 ] - I received an email with something in it which prompted me to review the posts I've made to PC World as a whole. Sort of looking at the record to personally judge my credibility and integrity. Of course, I'm biased (isn't everyone?), but that should be discussed somewhere else.2 ] - Upon re-reading this thread, I get the impression that the question of Vista's DRM capabilities was left unanswered.So, going by Reason 2, please allow me to expand upon the topic.We already know how Vista will treat a non-HDCP compliant video or audio stream, which was already outlined in the article linked to in my previous post to this thread. At the moment, you can rip audio CDs, burn DVDs (even a pirated DVD) and pretty much anything we were able to do before Vista.So what's the real beef about?The 120 (or so) companies backing the so-called Trusted Computing Platform; computers and devices which will (or already have) the Trusted Computing Module (TCM) with Microsoft (of course) being one of the prime movers of this technology.What is "Trusted Computing?"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_ComputingYes, it's a part of Vista and it does indeed have DRM capabilities unlike anything seen before. As the Wikipedia article explains, ""Trusted Computing would allow companies to create an almost unbreakable DRM system. An example is downloading a music file. Remote attestation could be used so that the music file would refuse to play except on a specific music player that enforces the record company's rules. Sealed storage would prevent the user from opening the file with another player or another computer. The music would be played in curtained memory, which would prevent the user from making an unrestricted copy of the file while it's playing, and secure I/O would prevent capturing what is being sent to the sound system."Vista is just like Ragu (if DRM was one of the ingredients) -- "It's in there."The TCM could be used in the same way to protect software from being pirated, or even allowing pirated software to run on your computer.Just because people aren't yet seeing the effects of the new technology in Vista doesn't mean it's not going to happen. The movie and music industries, broadcasters (cable and over the air) want to use this technology to protect their intellectual property. All well and good, but...the thing is this: Your computer is no longer under your control.Watch this video on YouTube to see how evil this can be:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1H7omJW4TIRead Richard Stallman's "Can You Trust Your Computer" here:http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.htmlRight now, the Trusted Computing alliance answers with the convenient "You can turn it off (the TPM) if you wish." How nice of them. But then anything requiring the TPM to work is effectively broken. You're back "in control" again, but your computer is in what could be called "Obsolete Mode" because it will no longer run the new, TCM-compliant software.Bottom line, I'm biased against this technology as a means to inflict even more DRM against the user. For security purposes (protecting my computer from malware or unauthorized processes) it's nice (even Steve Gibson likes it for those reasons).Right now, the jury is still out on just how far Vista and Trusted Computing will go as a means to enforce DRM. We know what the corporations (and the government) want to see based on their own previous actions. Is there any reason to expect them to change their minds now that the technology is out the door? Not in my opinion.-=-=-=-Please click on the "Submit" button now if you're sure you wish to annoy everyone.-=-=-=-...click :lol:

[lilxkid24]

it doesnt look like it because i have many programs that aren't legit but maybe im wrong

[ImaPhake]

No, right now it's not.That's because few computers have the TPM in them.So far it's in notebooks which allow you to use a fingerprint scan as a security measure and Vista uses it as part of the BitLocker Drive Encryption which goes right along with that.How soon it becomes a standard "feature" on all motherboards, I don't know.

[rkinne01]

ImaPhake thanks for the well written post. Time will tell, wouldn't be surpised to see DRM tighten for reasons I've stated on previous posts.

[rgreen4]

I can hardly wait for the outrage aimed at the Music Industry, Microsoft and the U. S. Congress when they take away the music of all those voters, music and software customers.

[rkinne01]

Rgreen, good to see you again. I'm hoping for some happy medium to take place, but I'm not holding my breath.