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Router Issues With Cable Modem

#1 User is offline   matt8445 

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 07:14 AM

I am hoping someone can help me out with a issue I am having. I just moved and I am trying to set up my home network. For the past few years I have been locked into service provider hardware and I am now on my own.

Here is what I have. I am getting internet service through Charter Communications. It is cable internet. I had a old cable modem from college probably 5 ish years old. I am not in front of it now, but I believe it is a Linysys Cable Modem BEFCMU10. I went and purchased a new router. I purchased a Cisco Linksys E4200 router.

Here is my problem. When we had the internet installed we only had the modem. We connected the modem to a desktop running windows 7 via cat 5 and were able to connect to the internet. I connected the router to the modem via cat 5 from the modem to the router and then cat 5 to the desktop, a NAS,a printer and direct tv connected the dish network to it as well. I ran the install disk with the router and set everything up changed my SSID and everything was working well for a day or two. Now I still have all the same configuration set up and I am finding that the connecting between the modem and the router is not connecting. I have a laptop as well and I see my desktop and can connect to the network but all I get is the little icon saying the connection has no internet access. This is also happening on the desktop. I reset the router, the modem, and restart the computers. Still no connection. I ran the set up cd with the router again and now it gets a error saying there is error with the modem and no internet is coming in. I take the end of the cable from the modem that goes into the router and disconnect it from the router and hook it directly to the desktop. It connect to the desktop and everything is happy. Any idea what the problem could be? My guess is it is localized to the router. Any trouble shooting steps I can take or am I just at a point where I should exchange it. I am guessing it is operator error somewhere, but not sure what else to look into as a problem.
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#2 User is offline   mjd420nova 

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 09:07 AM

I have found that most cable modems you buy are not going to work very well on any cable system. The cable system provides their own modems and they connect to various servers or gateways that may be pole mounted or in a box located at ground level maybe up to a mile away. These provided modems carry special handshaking software and encryptions that are not present on bought modems. Routers usually have no problem connecting to any type of modem, be it a cable, phone line(DSL) or satelite via ethernet. When I switched from cable to DSL, I just disconnected the ethernet from the cable modem and plugged it into the DSL modem and away it went with no installation needed.
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#3 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 10:24 AM

You do not need those installation discs. Usually, you access the router configuration by typing http://192.168.1.1 into your browser. You may need to check the login settings for the internet there. For instance, one day my grandparents' dsl stopped working. The PC saw the network, but not the internet. I had to type in their login info again for some reason in the router. After that, it worked again.
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#4 User is offline   matt8445 

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 12:18 PM

I have done a little research and it seems like I need a new modem. I guess that any of the modems they use/recommend are DOCSIS 3.0 and the once I currently have does not support that. I am not too sure what that is, but I guess it is the problem. Anyone have any info on this?
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#5 User is offline   smax013 

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 02:29 PM

View Postmjd420nova, on 08 August 2011 - 09:07 AM, said:

I have found that most cable modems you buy are not going to work very well on any cable system. The cable system provides their own modems and they connect to various servers or gateways that may be pole mounted or in a box located at ground level maybe up to a mile away. These provided modems carry special handshaking software and encryptions that are not present on bought modems. Routers usually have no problem connecting to any type of modem, be it a cable, phone line(DSL) or satelite via ethernet. When I switched from cable to DSL, I just disconnected the ethernet from the cable modem and plugged it into the DSL modem and away it went with no installation needed.


But, none of that seems to completely jive with what the original poster mentioned. He specifically said that the connection and modem would work when he went directly from the modem to the desktop (i.e. take the router out of the equation and things work again). Thus, if it was an issue with the modem, then it should also not work when directly connecting the modem to a computer and leaving the router out of the mix.
Good riddance PCWorld.
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#6 User is offline   smax013 

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 02:37 PM

View Postmatt8445, on 08 August 2011 - 12:18 PM, said:

I have done a little research and it seems like I need a new modem. I guess that any of the modems they use/recommend are DOCSIS 3.0 and the once I currently have does not support that. I am not too sure what that is, but I guess it is the problem. Anyone have any info on this?


DOCSIS is the standard that is used for doing high speed data over a cable line...i.e. the standard that is used for the cable modem to do its job. DOCSIS 3.0 in basic terms allows for faster speed...and it also allows for IPv6 (a new IP protocol that is not yet in effect).

While it is possible that you could use a new modem, the fact that the modem works when you directly connect it to the computer and leave the router out of the mix tends to suggest that it might bee an issue with the router.

How long ago did you purchase the router? If you can, you might take it back for an exchange or return it if you can and try a different router.

You might still benefit from a new modem, especially if your cable provider does support DOCSIS 3.0. Whether you want to try purchasing a new one yourself (lots of people do that so that they don't have to pay the cable company each month for it...and it should work unless your cable company is doing something they should not be doing and that might potentially be against FCC rules) or get one from the cable company would be something that you would have to decide.
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#7 User is offline   mjd420nova 

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 04:41 PM

Here where I am, Comcast owns the cable and you have to lease their modem, none you can buy will work properly. What they do to the data stream is in their eyes one of their encryption routines and embedded within the modems firmware. Any router you use should work as it actually becomes invisable to the modem and undetectable from outside the network. Yes, there are standards that apply to modems on a cable system but encryption methods render all but the providers non-functional.

This post has been edited by mjd420nova: 08 August 2011 - 04:42 PM

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#8 User is offline   smax013 

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 05:41 PM

View Postmjd420nova, on 08 August 2011 - 04:41 PM, said:

Here where I am, Comcast owns the cable and you have to lease their modem, none you can buy will work properly. What they do to the data stream is in their eyes one of their encryption routines and embedded within the modems firmware. Any router you use should work as it actually becomes invisable to the modem and undetectable from outside the network. Yes, there are standards that apply to modems on a cable system but encryption methods render all but the providers non-functional.


How does this apply to the original poster's problem?

First, he is dealing with Charter, no Comcast (and no clue if he is where you are...more on that in moment).

Second, as he and I noted before, he specifically stated that when the non-Charter cable modem is used with just a desktop computer (i.e. no router), it works just fine. Thus, there does not seem to be any issue with the non-Charter modem (other than maybe not getting speeds that he could maybe get with a DOCSIS 3.0 modem if Charter is taking advantage of DOCSIS 3.0 in his area) working with the Charter system.

And if we are going to stray off topic with encryption that Comcast might be using, I will note that your experience would be contrary to Comcast's own website (and my own experience in dealing with Comcast techs in my area when I contemplated getting my own modem to stop shelling out $5 or so a month to Comcast...since I switch to their phone service, it was kind of a moot point, however):

http://customer.comc...CookieSupport=1

Now, it is possible that some local areas may be different as major cable companies like Comcast constantly buy up smaller, local/regional cable companies and it tends to take them a while to fully integrate them into their system. Plus, even when "fully integrated" different areas do tend to offer different levels of service (for example, I get a LOT fewer HD stations than my parent's do who live about an hour from me and it took them about 4+ years longer to even get HD down to my area). OTOH, if Comcast did have areas that used encryption or something else that prevented the use of your own modem, then I would think they would have some disclaimer on that page that says something like "local conditions may vary" so some lawsuit happy low life could not sue them for misrepresenting things.
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#9 User is offline   matt8445 

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 07:25 AM

Yesterday afternoon I chatted with charter and got a list of recommended modems and non recommended modems.

http://www.myaccount...CompliantModems

I found my Linksys Modem on there. As to why the modem seemed to work directly to the PC I cannot really attest to what the issue ended up being. I did however look on Charter's website and find that they support most the the Motorola SurfBOARD series modems. I went to my local best buy last night and picked up a SurfBOARD modem and all seems to be good. I connected it and I now have a good LAN connection to my desktop and our Laptops and Smartphones all seem to connect to the WiFi after resetting the SSID and password.

I guess I just needed to upgrade. What is a bit of a bummer was that I purchased a really nice router, but I should be able to return it.

Matt
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#10 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 12:21 PM

View Postmjd420nova, on 08 August 2011 - 04:41 PM, said:

Here where I am, Comcast owns the cable and you have to lease their modem, none you can buy will work properly. What they do to the data stream is in their eyes one of their encryption routines and embedded within the modems firmware. Any router you use should work as it actually becomes invisable to the modem and undetectable from outside the network. Yes, there are standards that apply to modems on a cable system but encryption methods render all but the providers non-functional.


I have comcast, I live in the same metropolitan area as you, and I'm using a cable modem I bought myself and I don't have any issues. (it's a Motorola modem/router combo device, one of the rare ones that has gigabit ethernet as well as 802.11 n)<div><br></div><div>I think comcast owns the cable here, as they're the only provider. ATT doesn't have uverse here and as far as I know no one else has cable. It's just comcast (phone, internet, and tv) and att (phone and slow dsl internet).</div>

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 09 August 2011 - 12:22 PM

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#11 User is offline   smax013 

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 02:12 PM

View Postmatt8445, on 09 August 2011 - 07:25 AM, said:

Yesterday afternoon I chatted with charter and got a list of recommended modems and non recommended modems.

http://www.myaccount...CompliantModems

I found my Linksys Modem on there. As to why the modem seemed to work directly to the PC I cannot really attest to what the issue ended up being.


According to that link, either modem should not have provisioned at all (i.e. not work) or if it was working, you should have gotten some notice about the "bad" modem. Strange that none of that seemed to happen.

Quote

I did however look on Charter's website and find that they support most the the Motorola SurfBOARD series modems. I went to my local best buy last night and picked up a SurfBOARD modem and all seems to be good. I connected it and I now have a good LAN connection to my desktop and our Laptops and Smartphones all seem to connect to the WiFi after resetting the SSID and password.

I guess I just needed to upgrade. What is a bit of a bummer was that I purchased a really nice router, but I should be able to return it.

Matt


Glad you got a solution that is working for you.
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