[Evildave]

Works fine on a mac.

[smax013]

waldojim, on 22 August 2011 - 03:34 AM, said:

I have spent the past couple days trying to find out what the limits are for this machine... and no, not what you guys are expecting either.

Of all the things, I am currently posting from OS-X on my Lenovo.

What works:
The OS (barely)
Wired Networking
CD/DVD access
Multi-touch (I am impressed BTW!)

What doesn't:
Everything else lol
No Sound (yet)
No wireless (not an option)
So far no display drivers
So far no updates beyond the initial install

There we go. For those who hackintosh, understand that the w520 will be a challenge.

Installing is straightforward - iboot legacy with -x -v will do.
After that, the OS works (when using iboot to boot)

Still, I hope to get to a point that I can study OS-X a bit more. I had a good couple hours to play around in the command line, and get some understanding of the filesystem structure. While similar to Linux/Unix, it is fascinatingly different. As for performance - it is ok at best. Though a lack of drivers probably isn't helping right now.

Which version? Snow Leopard or Lion? Or something older?

[waldojim]

smax013, on 22 August 2011 - 02:47 PM, said:

waldojim, on 22 August 2011 - 03:34 AM, said:

I have spent the past couple days trying to find out what the limits are for this machine... and no, not what you guys are expecting either.

Of all the things, I am currently posting from OS-X on my Lenovo.

What works:
The OS (barely)
Wired Networking
CD/DVD access
Multi-touch (I am impressed BTW!)

What doesn't:
Everything else lol
No Sound (yet)
No wireless (not an option)
So far no display drivers
So far no updates beyond the initial install

There we go. For those who hackintosh, understand that the w520 will be a challenge.

Installing is straightforward - iboot legacy with -x -v will do.
After that, the OS works (when using iboot to boot)

Still, I hope to get to a point that I can study OS-X a bit more. I had a good couple hours to play around in the command line, and get some understanding of the filesystem structure. While similar to Linux/Unix, it is fascinatingly different. As for performance - it is ok at best. Though a lack of drivers probably isn't helping right now.

Which version? Snow Leopard or Lion? Or something older?

Snow Leopard for now. Sound is almost functional, and I have the system updated to 10.6.7 now. For some reason it still won't take 10.6.8, not sure why. At least I can boot now in normal mode. This has changed quite a bit. Still no display drivers at the moment (trying to determine a solid route to use). I do love the backup mechanism OSX uses, I made a backup to a secondary partition and boot from both as needed - this way I can experiment on one, and use the other to recover. The network card, and sound card both use integrated drivers. So far, they seem OK. The system is currently running on the Intel video card, which means it runs in a safe video mode (1024x768).

I am thinking about taking the experimental version and trying Lion on it to see what happens.

[waldojim]

Evildave, on 22 August 2011 - 04:40 AM, said:

Works fine on a mac.

I am sure it does. But I like to tinker.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 22 August 2011 - 03:38 PM, said:

Evildave, on 22 August 2011 - 04:40 AM, said:

Works fine on a mac.

I am sure it does. But I like to tinker.

Hey, that's what geeks do, right?

[smax013]

waldojim, on 22 August 2011 - 03:35 PM, said:

Snow Leopard for now. Sound is almost functional, and I have the system updated to 10.6.7 now. For some reason it still won't take 10.6.8, not sure why. At least I can boot now in normal mode. This has changed quite a bit. Still no display drivers at the moment (trying to determine a solid route to use). I do love the backup mechanism OSX uses, I made a backup to a secondary partition and boot from both as needed - this way I can experiment on one, and use the other to recover. The network card, and sound card both use integrated drivers. So far, they seem OK. The system is currently running on the Intel video card, which means it runs in a safe video mode (1024x768).

I am thinking about taking the experimental version and trying Lion on it to see what happens.

Finding a graphics driver is gonna be near impossible...unless your computer has a graphics system that Apple uses in their computers (which it does not). And you can forget getting it to automatically switch between the integrated and the discrete...ain't gonna happen.

When you say "backup mechanism" are you talking about? Time Machine? Or making an image using Disk Utility?

I am not yet sold on Lion. There are some annoyances that I am not sure if I can live with or not. For example, Spaces is completely gone for all intents and purposes. While I don't use it that much, there were some aspects of it that were nice. Lion killed those. The new Mail program is kind of a love/hate relationship. I love the new search and the multiple colors of flags. I hate how it deals with attachments and not sure how I like the preview window on the side (that you can revert to the old way). I hate the new Address Book and iCal (but then I use BusyCal anyway).

Versions is slick as snot. But, until Office supports it, it is kind of limited in use. I do have Pages, but I don't use that as my primary word processor. The problem though is that it appears that it will only work with a Mac formatted disk. So, copy a files with Versions to a typical USB flash drive...and all your Versions are gone.

Restore with a restart is also pretty slick...especially with the Air and its lightening quick boot. You restart and everything that was open when you did it opens back up.

One major problem is that my LaCie RAID NAS does not work with it...kind of. I can still access it with SMB, but not with Apple's file protocols.

[waldojim]

smax013, on 22 August 2011 - 09:59 PM, said:

Finding a graphics driver is gonna be near impossible...unless your computer has a graphics system that Apple uses in their computers (which it does not). And you can forget getting it to automatically switch between the integrated and the discrete...ain't gonna happen.

I am under the impression that the nvidia drivers from nvidia's website should work for the dedicated card. EDIT: This requires me to get up to 10.6.8 though, and that last update does NOT work. The Intel card should be supported natively though - as they currently sell... what a dozen machines that use the Intel 3000? Sadly, even the Intel card is kaput for the most part.

As for optimus, I am not worried about it. Once the BIOS detects an OS that doesn't support it (kinda cool if you ask me), it can default to either using the Intel or the Nvidia card. I currently have it set to Intel.

Quote

When you say "backup mechanism" are you talking about? Time Machine? Or making an image using Disk Utility?

Image making in Disk Utility. I didn't realize it was a dead-on, bootable clone until I accidentally selected it during a reboot phase. Really cool if you ask me.

Quote

I am not yet sold on Lion. There are some annoyances that I am not sure if I can live with or not. For example, Spaces is completely gone for all intents and purposes. While I don't use it that much, there were some aspects of it that were nice. Lion killed those. The new Mail program is kind of a love/hate relationship. I love the new search and the multiple colors of flags. I hate how it deals with attachments and not sure how I like the preview window on the side (that you can revert to the old way). I hate the new Address Book and iCal (but then I use BusyCal anyway).

Versions is slick as snot. But, until Office supports it, it is kind of limited in use. I do have Pages, but I don't use that as my primary word processor. The problem though is that it appears that it will only work with a Mac formatted disk. So, copy a files with Versions to a typical USB flash drive...and all your Versions are gone.

Restore with a restart is also pretty slick...especially with the Air and its lightening quick boot. You restart and everything that was open when you did it opens back up.

One major problem is that my LaCie RAID NAS does not work with it...kind of. I can still access it with SMB, but not with Apple's file protocols.

I am not yet familiar enough with the names Apple uses for things, what do you mean by 'Spaces'?

as for Versions to USB, can I safely assume that all your differing versions still remain in tact on the hard drive?

Lastly guys, while I was very much enjoying myself tinkering with OSX, my testing has come to a rather abrupt halt. This was when I reinstalled Windows, and (of course) things didn't want to work quite right. I do not blame MS for this issue (yet), as it appears to be an Intel issue. But upon getting Windows installed (EFI mode was automatically selected BTW - once it saw the GPT table, it was happy as a clam), and installing the video drivers, I could no longer get Windows to boot - "IRQ NOT LESS OR EQUAL". That is a very common video hardware/driver failure code. The nvidia drivers don't seem affected, but I do want more than 4 hours battery life. So this means I am back to old fashioned MBR type layout pending a caddy for my 160GB hard drive in the ultrabay.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 22 August 2011 - 10:32 PM

[smax013]

waldojim, on 22 August 2011 - 10:31 PM, said:

Image making in Disk Utility. I didn't realize it was a dead-on, bootable clone until I accidentally selected it during a reboot phase. Really cool if you ask me.

Well, color me ignorant. I never realized you could clone directly with Disk Utility. I have always used SuperDuper for my cloning. I will still use it as SuperDuper can "Smart Update" a clone (i.e. don't have to completely redo it each time).

Quote

I am not yet familiar enough with the names Apple uses for things, what do you mean by 'Spaces'?

Basically a virtual desktop function...i.e. so you can make a bunch of virtual desktops for various apps. I did just learn that one aspect that I thought was gone is still there.

Quote

as for Versions to USB, can I safely assume that all your differing versions still remain in tact on the hard drive?

Yes.

Quote

Lastly guys, while I was very much enjoying myself tinkering with OSX, my testing has come to a rather abrupt halt. This was when I reinstalled Windows, and (of course) things didn't want to work quite right. I do not blame MS for this issue (yet), as it appears to be an Intel issue. But upon getting Windows installed (EFI mode was automatically selected BTW - once it saw the GPT table, it was happy as a clam), and installing the video drivers, I could no longer get Windows to boot - "IRQ NOT LESS OR EQUAL". That is a very common video hardware/driver failure code. The nvidia drivers don't seem affected, but I do want more than 4 hours battery life. So this means I am back to old fashioned MBR type layout pending a caddy for my 160GB hard drive in the ultrabay.

You could also play with Mac OS by way of a Firewire drive or maybe an eSATA drive.

[waldojim]

smax013, on 22 August 2011 - 10:52 PM, said:

Well, color me ignorant. I never realized you could clone directly with Disk Utility. I have always used SuperDuper for my cloning. I will still use it as SuperDuper can "Smart Update" a clone (i.e. don't have to completely redo it each time).

I never really got a chance to test that. But the fully working clone was extremely useful.

Quote

Basically a virtual desktop function...i.e. so you can make a bunch of virtual desktops for various apps. I did just learn that one aspect that I thought was gone is still there.

OK, I thought someone was showing me the 8+ desktops he was running... that is one of those features I never really got used to. I have had it since the early days of Linux (even Windows for a while, when Nvidia had that feature).

Quote

You could also play with Mac OS by way of a Firewire drive or maybe an eSATA drive.

True enough, but all of my firewire enclosures house UltraATA/IDE drives. The only Sata drive I have available happens to be a 160GB 2.5" x 9.5mm laptop drive... and no enclosure for it. Considering that an enclosure would cost more than the ultra bay adapter (found one on amazon for $15, just haven't gotten around to buying it yet)- I figured I could use it for data backups, and testing on the laptop...

[waldojim]

I came across an interesting development recently. Battery saving modes tend to vary considerably from one machine to the next. The X100e didn't have much at all, my Sony SA would set the dynamic brightness to much lower levels and even prevent the battery from charging to 100%, all to save the battery.

The 520 has a very interesting option called 'Battery Stretch' mode. Suffice it to say, that most of what this mode does is nothing new, turn off devices more aggressively (PCI-E, SATA, etc). But one interesting thing it does is worth noting here. I work in a lot of Windows, doing various tasks on my machine. In battery stretch mode, the entire screen is dimmed EXCEPT the active window. When I first tried it, I didn't notice as I had my browser full screen. But last night, after I swapped task to remotely managing my media center, I noticed it clear as day. The entire desktop was at setting 1 or 2, and my active session into the media center was about 60~70% brightness level. I thought that was kind of cool.

Now, why on earth doesn't the machine default to something similar 100% of the time? I have found myself trying to do something just to find I had the wrong window active. This extreme wouldn't be necessary on AC power, but in general, I think I would have a better Windows experience if the active window was 'brighter' than the rest of the desktop... dim the rest of the desktop say... 10% or so lower.

[LiveBrianD]

I didn't even think it was possible to dim part of the screen. What is it, OLED? On my x120e, I find the "VariBright" thing VERY annoying while I'm working. Plus, with it enabled, the screen's white balance is wwaaayyy off - far too bright. I hate how that setting gets reset every time I update the amd graphics driver.

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 29 August 2011 - 04:06 PM, said:

I didn't even think it was possible to dim part of the screen. What is it, OLED? On my x120e, I find the "VariBright" thing VERY annoying while I'm working. Plus, with it enabled, the screen's white balance is wwaaayyy off - far too bright. I hate how that setting gets reset every time I update the amd graphics driver.

That would be zone controlled LED backlighting. I enjoy having it on quite a bit, and don't really notice anything wrong with the colors. Could be a difference in panel types though.

[waldojim]

Ok guys, this machine is too much fun to play with...

Lenovo actually released drivers for the network card... FOR DOS!

Interestingly, the machine refuses to boot from the internal card reader. When I used my USB reader though, it boots right up. I have Dos, Windows 3.11 AND IE 5.01 working beautifully (if you can call ie5 beautiful). Sure makes Windows 7 look SLOW.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 30 August 2011 - 11:29 AM, said:

Ok guys, this machine is too much fun to play with...

Lenovo actually released drivers for the network card... FOR DOS!

Interestingly, the machine refuses to boot from the internal card reader. When I used my USB reader though, it boots right up. I have Dos, Windows 3.11 AND IE 5.01 working beautifully (if you can call ie5 beautiful). Sure makes Windows 7 look SLOW.

Yeah I couldn't boot mine from the sd reader either. But a thumb drive and usb SD reader worked. I don't know why they do that...

now who uses DOS anyway? And I thought it was pointless for lenovo to provide XP drivers for my x120e...

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 30 August 2011 - 03:13 PM, said:

Yeah I couldn't boot mine from the sd reader either. But a thumb drive and usb SD reader worked. I don't know why they do that...

now who uses DOS anyway? And I thought it was pointless for lenovo to provide XP drivers for my x120e...

Have you seen boot times in DOS? I boot in about 5 seconds, and that is from a SLOW SD card (try 4MB/sec read!). Windows loads in about 3 more. Truth be told though, I doubt I will be using Windows much in this aspect... IE 5 is a terrible browser. Arachne is a terrific browser, and supports 1280x1024 resolution.

Worried about viruses in today's interwebz? Use DOS browser!

More than anything, this was a fun test though, I like the idea that the machine is usable in nearly any fashion. I might even try Windows 98 later just for kicks and giggles.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 30 August 2011 - 06:50 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 30 August 2011 - 03:13 PM, said:

Yeah I couldn't boot mine from the sd reader either. But a thumb drive and usb SD reader worked. I don't know why they do that...

now who uses DOS anyway? And I thought it was pointless for lenovo to provide XP drivers for my x120e...

Have you seen boot times in DOS? I boot in about 5 seconds, and that is from a SLOW SD card (try 4MB/sec read!). Windows loads in about 3 more. Truth be told though, I doubt I will be using Windows much in this aspect... IE 5 is a terrible browser. Arachne is a terrific browser, and supports 1280x1024 resolution.

Worried about viruses in today's interwebz? Use DOS browser!

More than anything, this was a fun test though, I like the idea that the machine is usable in nearly any fashion. I might even try Windows 98 later just for kicks and giggles.

How much hardware detection did those machines do compared to the ones of today?

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 30 August 2011 - 06:56 PM, said:

How much hardware detection did those machines do compared to the ones of today?

Almost none. Most of it was done through additional drivers. That said, the CD/DVD drivers, memory drivers, and network drivers all loaded within a second or two. All core system functions were available quickly. I will install New Deal Office later (upgrade to geoworks) so I can try out the skipper web browser. Geoworks also offers up a limited form of multitasking that will allow me to do several things at once. Truth be told, I really like DOS. No it aint pretty, but it is damn FAST.

[waldojim]

I learn more and more about this thing every day.

Today's new lesson: Multitouch gestures.

Yes, the touchpad supports them. I found this out day one, with 2 finger scrolling. Now, I have three finger tap to launch my browser (set by me), three finger navigation, pinch to zoom, rotate, etc. This thing has TONS of options for the touchpad, and it is worth exploring. I can tap in 4 corners for 4 different mouse buttons (should I want it), it will ignore accidental brushing from my palm while typing, even let me customize regions to allow me to start a session if you will.

That last item is really cool, by selecting zones to ignore (for different types of input), you can ensure that accidentally tapping on the outside edges don't cause any interruption.

Is the multi touch perfect? No. But apart from a Mac, I have never seen it done this well. I still dislike the touchpads abrasive texture, but it is growing on me.

I learn more and more about this thing every day.

This post has been edited by coastie65: 31 August 2011 - 05:52 AM
Reason for edit: Original post was duplicated edited out the dupe.

[LiveBrianD]

Dang... the chances of my thinkpad's multitouch NOT working correctly are as high as the chances of a rock going down by itself if I let go of it in midair... yet the TrackPoint works 99.9% of the time, odd...

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 31 August 2011 - 03:00 PM, said:

Dang... the chances of my thinkpad's multitouch NOT working correctly are as high as the chances of a rock going down by itself if I let go of it in midair... yet the TrackPoint works 99.9% of the time, odd...

Different drivers?