[buddyboy]

I received an offer in hard copy mail today to renew my PC World subscription at the "Professional" rate for $54.97 Canadian for two years. On the web I note that the on offer two year rate for Canadians is $49.97. However, I also note that the same subscription for U.S. residents is $29.97. Forgive me for being baffled and for feeling like a "mark". Is there any logic behind this? Bear in mind, the Canadian dollar is worth more than the U.S. dollar. (I am an otherwise avid fan of PC World.)

[Tunz]

It looks to me like disrespect and is the reason I no longer subscribe. As long as we continue to pay it, the policy will not change.

[smax013]

buddyboy, on 26 August 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

I received an offer in hard copy mail today to renew my PC World subscription at the "Professional" rate for $54.97 Canadian for two years. On the web I note that the on offer two year rate for Canadians is $49.97. However, I also note that the same subscription for U.S. residents is $29.97. Forgive me for being baffled and for feeling like a "mark". Is there any logic behind this? Bear in mind, the Canadian dollar is worth more than the U.S. dollar. (I am an otherwise avid fan of PC World.)

My guess would be that mailing/shipping costs are greater. I know that the cost of mailing a typical letter from the US to Canada is about twice what it is to mail within the US. So, I would have to assume that the cost of mailing a magazine is similarly more expensive.

[coastie65]

smax013, on 27 August 2011 - 12:45 AM, said:

buddyboy, on 26 August 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

I received an offer in hard copy mail today to renew my PC World subscription at the "Professional" rate for $54.97 Canadian for two years. On the web I note that the on offer two year rate for Canadians is $49.97. However, I also note that the same subscription for U.S. residents is $29.97. Forgive me for being baffled and for feeling like a "mark". Is there any logic behind this? Bear in mind, the Canadian dollar is worth more than the U.S. dollar. (I am an otherwise avid fan of PC World.)

My guess would be that mailing/shipping costs are greater. I know that the cost of mailing a typical letter from the US to Canada is about twice what it is to mail within the US. So, I would have to assume that the cost of mailing a magazine is similarly more expensive.

Except the USPS uses a special media mailing rate for that stuff, but may not apply in Canada.

[smax013]

coastie65, on 27 August 2011 - 08:04 AM, said:

smax013, on 27 August 2011 - 12:45 AM, said:

buddyboy, on 26 August 2011 - 12:24 PM, said:

I received an offer in hard copy mail today to renew my PC World subscription at the "Professional" rate for $54.97 Canadian for two years. On the web I note that the on offer two year rate for Canadians is $49.97. However, I also note that the same subscription for U.S. residents is $29.97. Forgive me for being baffled and for feeling like a "mark". Is there any logic behind this? Bear in mind, the Canadian dollar is worth more than the U.S. dollar. (I am an otherwise avid fan of PC World.)

My guess would be that mailing/shipping costs are greater. I know that the cost of mailing a typical letter from the US to Canada is about twice what it is to mail within the US. So, I would have to assume that the cost of mailing a magazine is similarly more expensive.

Except the USPS uses a special media mailing rate for that stuff, but may not apply in Canada.

Which is why I said "I would have to assume that the cost of mailing a magazine is similarly more expensive". I doubt very much that sending a magazine to Canada, even with a media mailing rate, is going to be the same as mailing to any where in the US. If it costs more to send a letter, then it is going to cost more to send a magazine.

Plus, I found a site with a discussion about mailing magazines that said that magazines mailed to Canada from the US are required to be mailing in something...i.e. those plastic "baggies". If that is the case, then there will be added costs associated with the process of putting the magazine in the baggy as most magazines don't use those baggies on a regular basis (I have ONE magazine that used to always do that...even other magazine, including PCWorld, might do it once in a blue moon because they are shipping something else with it).

[Tunz]

Quote

Plus, I found a site with a discussion about mailing magazines that said that magazines mailed to Canada from the US are required to be mailing in something...i.e. those plastic "baggies". If that is the case, then there will be added costs associated with the process of putting the magazine in the baggy as most magazines don't use those baggies on a regular basis (I have ONE magazine that used to always do that...even other magazine, including PCWorld, might do it once in a blue moon because they are shipping something else with it).

That would certainly add to the cost and would likely explain why Time magazine costs 20% more in Canada than it does in the US, but it does not explain the 80% premium that PCWorld seeks.
The falling US dollar is actually an opportunity for those exporting American made products. It allows reducing costs to foreign buyers and in so doing increases the market and puts more Americans back to work. The falling dollar is the road to recovery. Toyotas and Toshibas will cost more but that's really an Asian problem. The idea does take some getting used to. We're just waiting for PCWorld to come around to it, as many others already have.

[LiveBrianD]

Hey, as far as I can tell, you can get all the content online. I used to subscribe to pc mag (not pc world) and stopped eventually because most of the magazine stuff was online a week or two earlier, I didn't see the benefit.

[buddyboy]

LiveBrianD, on 27 August 2011 - 02:03 PM, said:

Hey, as far as I can tell, you can get all the content online. I used to subscribe to pc mag (not pc world) and stopped eventually because most of the magazine stuff was online a week or two earlier, I didn't see the benefit.

I won't judge you, but I will say I have no problem paying for content, certainly in hard copy, but the huge premium charged to Canadian customers is unfathomable. As big a fan as I am of PC World, when I see that it pushes me to letting my subscription expire. Canadian bound magazines are shipped to Canada in bulk and mailed from there. Plastic covers cost pennies at the print stage. Bulk mailing to a distributor is miniscule. Canadian postal rates are slightly greater. All this is true. I can see a $5 differential, that being hugely generous to PCW, but $20. Gouging comes to mind.

[smax013]

Tunz, on 27 August 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

That would certainly add to the cost and would likely explain why Time magazine costs 20% more in Canada than it does in the US, but it does not explain the 80% premium that PCWorld seeks.
The falling US dollar is actually an opportunity for those exporting American made products. It allows reducing costs to foreign buyers and in so doing increases the market and puts more Americans back to work. The falling dollar is the road to recovery. Toyotas and Toshibas will cost more but that's really an Asian problem. The idea does take some getting used to. We're just waiting for PCWorld to come around to it, as many others already have.

buddyboy, on 27 August 2011 - 02:48 PM, said:

I won't judge you, but I will say I have no problem paying for content, certainly in hard copy, but the huge premium charged to Canadian customers is unfathomable. As big a fan as I am of PC World, when I see that it pushes me to letting my subscription expire. Canadian bound magazines are shipped to Canada in bulk and mailed from there. Plastic covers cost pennies at the print stage. Bulk mailing to a distributor is miniscule. Canadian postal rates are slightly greater. All this is true. I can see a $5 differential, that being hugely generous to PCW, but $20. Gouging comes to mind.

Hey, I don't know whether they can justify the difference or not. I am merely offering things that might explain the difference.

Take your example of Time magazine. How do you know that Time may not choose to "subsidize" their Canadian subscriptions because they can due to what is most likely a MUCH higher number of subscribers to PCWorld? Thus, maybe PCWorld is not charging you a premium but rather Time is just giving you a really good deal.

My point is that we really don't know what PCWorld's costs are to ship to the US or to Canada. Personally, I tend to like to give people the benefit of the doubt until I get some proof otherwise...i.e. "innocent until proven guilty".

In the end, it is your choice whether you get a subscription. If you think it costs too much, then don't get a subscription.

[smax013]

LiveBrianD, on 27 August 2011 - 02:03 PM, said:

Hey, as far as I can tell, you can get all the content online. I used to subscribe to pc mag (not pc world) and stopped eventually because most of the magazine stuff was online a week or two earlier, I didn't see the benefit.

Not all content. Usually the one, two, or three "major"/cover articles are not available on the website.

[LiveBrianD]

smax013, on 27 August 2011 - 04:24 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 27 August 2011 - 02:03 PM, said:

Hey, as far as I can tell, you can get all the content online. I used to subscribe to pc mag (not pc world) and stopped eventually because most of the magazine stuff was online a week or two earlier, I didn't see the benefit.

Not all content. Usually the one, two, or three "major"/cover articles are not available on the website.

Well, in my mind it doesn't quite justify the cost. Personally I'd prefer to spend the money on, idk, a new graphics card or something...

[smax013]

LiveBrianD, on 27 August 2011 - 04:44 PM, said:

Well, in my mind it doesn't quite justify the cost. Personally I'd prefer to spend the money on, idk, a new graphics card or something...

Well, first of all, the cost of PCWorld subscription would not even come close to paying for a graphics card...at least not a decent one.

Second, imagine if everyone takes that attitude...we likely would not be having this conversation as PCWorld and its website (and forums) would likely no longer exist. While they get money for advertising, they cannot survive on it alone. I remember when the subscription was like $10 a year (it has been a while)...they have need to raise the subscription cost as well as up the ratio of ads to articles in the magazine due to fewer subscriptions over the years (like many magazines).

While like most people, I like free stuff, the reality is that stuff costs money. And frankly, I think they are kind of stupid to provide so much of their content for free on the website. Many newspapers are discovering the downside of such an approach...people no longer subscribe to the newspaper anymore because they can get it for free on the web...but then how does the newspaper pay its employees, rent, and other bills? The answer is that they don't. This is why you are seeing more and more newspapers look at "pay walls" for their online content. Some magazines are as well. Yes, this pisses some people off because they were getting it for free, but hey, this stuff does not magically come from no where. It is all content created by people who have mortgages, car payments, kids they want to sent to college, etc.

Personally, I feel it is worth it to pay for a subscription. While much of the content in the magazine is not as useful to me as it used to be, there is still usually a few useful items in each edition. And since I find the forums of value as well, I feel that PCWorld is worth my support financially.

[Tunz]

LiveBrianD, on 27 August 2011 - 02:03 PM, said:

Hey, as far as I can tell, you can get all the content online. I used to subscribe to pc mag (not pc world) and stopped eventually because most of the magazine stuff was online a week or two earlier, I didn't see the benefit.

Exactly, that's how easy it is to lose a subscriber.

[Tunz]

Quote

Take your example of Time magazine. How do you know that Time may not choose to "subsidize" their Canadian subscriptions because they can due to what is most likely a MUCH higher number of subscribers to PCWorld? Thus, maybe PCWorld is not charging you a premium but rather Time is just giving you a really good deal.

My point is that we really don't know what PCWorld's costs are to ship to the US or to Canada.

The selling price has less to do with cost and everything to do with "what the market will bear". That's just how the free market economy works. If PCWorld thought that Americans would pay $54.97, then that's how much it would be. But they would never pay it and I am no different.
To be clear, PCWorld is, in my estimation, the best computer magazine in print. There is great balance of ads and quality content. The layout is artful right down to the easy fonts and leading. But even if I was okay with the $54.97 and the idea of pulping a tree for my own entertainment, I'd still have to carry its sorry carcass out in my blue box on Thursday mornings.
I'll read it online.

[smax013]

Tunz, on 27 August 2011 - 08:31 PM, said:

The selling price has less to do with cost and everything to do with "what the market will bear". That's just how the free market economy works. If PCWorld thought that Americans would pay $54.97, then that's how much it would be. But they would never pay it and I am no different.
To be clear, PCWorld is, in my estimation, the best computer magazine in print. There is great balance of ads and quality content. The layout is artful right down to the easy fonts and leading. But even if I was okay with the $54.97 and the idea of pulping a tree for my own entertainment, I'd still have to carry its sorry carcass out in my blue box on Thursday mornings.
I'll read it online.

I would contend that it has to do with BOTH.

Yes, in a capitalistic/free market society, "what the market will bear" will have a large effect on what companies will charge for their products or services. But...so do their costs to offer that product or service.

If a company cannot recoup their costs while making what they feel is an appropriate profit (PCWorld is a for-profit company after all), then they won't make that product (either because they don't want to or because they cannot afford to).

And the plain simple fact is that since PCWorld is a US based magazine, it costs them more to deliver the magazine to Canada and even more to "other" international subscribers. As a result, it is reasonable that they charge those subscribers more than US subscribers.

So, I will go back the original poster's questions:

Quote

Is there any logic behind this?

And my response is yes, there is a logic to why a Canadian subscription costs more than a US subscription...because it costs more to have the magazine delivered to Canada.

It now seems, however, that this was maybe a rhetorical question and this was more about gripefest about having to pay more than what some wanted. If so, then my response is don't pay for a subscription.

But, we should all be aware that as more people decide that they will take the "cheap" route and just read it free online, then the chances will increase that either PCWorld will have to find alternative sources of revenue or go out of business...as others have.

Take PCMag. They stopped doing hard copy versions and have reduced their number of issues per year...but have basically kept a subscription cost (in the US) that is comparable to PCWorld's prices. I frankly don't know how much content they offer online for free as I killed my subscription when they killed the hard copy version (I like the hard copy version as I keep old editions around for reference).

Or take Macworld, PCWorld's "sister" magazine. They have started this "Macworld Insider" subscription. There is "extra" content available online that only "Insiders" can access. But, in order to get it, you have to have a magazine subscription AND pay an extra $20 a year. Now, I will note that you also get access to a few years of back issues, you get ad free access to the website and you get articles as one page...as well some other "perks". But, I have to admit that I am a bit turned off by the notion that I pay for a subscription that does not really get me much more than what other pay nothing for by going to the website for free. This approach kind of seems to say "screw you" to people who have not "cheaped out" and maintained a subscription.

We will see more of this as more and more people don't pay for subscriptions to magazines or newspapers. Those publications will likely look to put more and more content behind pay walls as they are finding that website ads just don't bring in enough revenue (especially when any one with any computer knowledge will be running some ad blocker). And frankly, this makes sense to me as I have thought that publications tendency to put their content on the web for free was colossally stupid. It was a business model destined for failure in my opinion.

But this last part is really a whole other topic...

[LiveBrianD]

smax013, on 27 August 2011 - 06:44 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 27 August 2011 - 04:44 PM, said:

Well, in my mind it doesn't quite justify the cost. Personally I'd prefer to spend the money on, idk, a new graphics card or something...

Well, first of all, the cost of PCWorld subscription would not even come close to paying for a graphics card...at least not a decent one.

Second, imagine if everyone takes that attitude...we likely would not be having this conversation as PCWorld and its website (and forums) would likely no longer exist. While they get money for advertising, they cannot survive on it alone. I remember when the subscription was like $10 a year (it has been a while)...they have need to raise the subscription cost as well as up the ratio of ads to articles in the magazine due to fewer subscriptions over the years (like many magazines).

While like most people, I like free stuff, the reality is that stuff costs money. And frankly, I think they are kind of stupid to provide so much of their content for free on the website. Many newspapers are discovering the downside of such an approach...people no longer subscribe to the newspaper anymore because they can get it for free on the web...but then how does the newspaper pay its employees, rent, and other bills? The answer is that they don't. This is why you are seeing more and more newspapers look at "pay walls" for their online content. Some magazines are as well. Yes, this pisses some people off because they were getting it for free, but hey, this stuff does not magically come from no where. It is all content created by people who have mortgages, car payments, kids they want to sent to college, etc.

Personally, I feel it is worth it to pay for a subscription. While much of the content in the magazine is not as useful to me as it used to be, there is still usually a few useful items in each edition. And since I find the forums of value as well, I feel that PCWorld is worth my support financially.

Well at least the money can help with paying for my pc upgrades. OK, I'll add pcworld.com to my list of adblock exceptions. (I still block tracking though, and I have a HUGE list of ad sites in my hosts file, but I recall when I started viewing the forums in FF due to issues with Chrome 13 I still saw plenty of ads that the hosts file didn't block, I hadn't installed adblock on it yet) Honestly, if I were out of college and I had a full-time job and such, I might not subscribe simply because paper and shipping isn't exactly green. Sure, trees are fairly renewable, but still, the shipping probably used fossil fuels. And a laptop used to view the site doesn't use a whole lot. If there were a way to pay so that I could view ALL the content online, I might. I prefer that format anyway. However, I do NOT like the way PC Magazine did things. At some point they made it online ONLY, converting all existing subscriptions. The online reader felt like reading a PDF, except that it was only online with a slow flash interface. For instance, you can click on links in it to view other parts of the magazine. I felt it was very unintuitive and I prefer the way websites do things. Therefore, I stopped reading it and let my subscription expire.

Granted, part of the reason I tend to be cheap is that I am a student and I don't have tons of money. Since I can view WSJ articles behind the paywall by finding the article on google news, I do. Because I can listen to music free with services like Pandora rather than buying it, I do. (I'm ok with a few ads on it)

Also, there are some things that, if I couldn't get them free, I wouldn't be willing to pay for them and use them at all. For instance, I very rarely need adobe photoshop (thanks to freebies like Windows Live Photo Gallery and Paint.net), so I torrented a copy. In fact, the other day I downloaded a TIFF file and when I saw photoshop open, I realized that I still had it installed. (I have the setup file somewhere on my HD, and I forgot that I'd even reinstalled it since the last time I reinstalled Windows) If I couldn't get it free, I'd live without it. I use it about once every several months. If PCworld weren't free, I might pay for it, but there's a moderate chance I would simply go to another magazine that I can view for free.

Also, about ads: I'm perfectly fine with a static ad on the side of the page. I'm all right with animated ones. For instance, in a game I play (Need for Speed World), there are some T-Mobile ads that look like billboards. I think that's how they make it free. I'm perfectly fine with that, those don't bother me at all. the ads are static and unobtrusive. HOWEVER: When the ad is a video that starts playing by itself, wasting my bandwidth, helping to slowdown my connection for others on something I don't care about, and wasting CPU cycles (particularly on my netbook), I'm NOT OK WITH IT. This is EVEN MORE SO when the ad also has audio that's enabled by default. If I open a few tabs and then start hearing an ad's audio, I have to Ctrl+Tab until I find out what the source is. And when I get sent to an ad page and have to click something to see the page or the ad sits on top of the whole page until I close it or a little ad image appears when I'm posting on the forums and keeps moving so I see it when I scroll until I close it... THAT PISSES ME OFF BIG TIME. That's the reason I usually block ads. Plus, those adobe flash ones often slow down the page loading a bit. (particularly on a netbook) IF THE ADS WEREN'T SO OBTRUSIVE, I WOULDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THEM.

fyi, if something is a good product and the price is fine, and there's no good alternative, I'll buy it. I don't have a problem shelling out $99 for Windows 7 OEM. It's a great product, and I can't get a good alternative. (Come to think of it, as a high school student, am I allowed to buy MS software at student discounts? I do NOT have an .edu email. However, I apparently was able to get my hotmail account verified as a student discount eligible one by saying that my school doesn't give edu email addresses.) However, for instance, I won't buy WinZIP because 7-zip does the vast majority of what winzip does for free. I won't buy photoshop because I hardly need the few features (if at all) that paint.net offers for free. (And photoshop is super bloated and takes about 15 seconds to launch on a moderately fast machine, whereas paint.net takes about 5 seconds on a SLOW machine, and maybe 3 on the same faster one. Also, for instance, I would buy vmware WS if it were cheaper - it's a good product, and although freebies like virtualbox and ms virtual pc are also fairly good, there are some places where they aren't always as good.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 28 August 2011 - 11:52 AM

[johnjohnjohn]

8 years now a subscriber. For me the price difference is not justified. When my subscription comes up for renewal, I'm done. Sorry boys.

[buddyboy]

johnjohnjohn, on 02 October 2011 - 04:48 PM, said:

8 years now a subscriber. For me the price difference is not justified. When my subscription comes up for renewal, I'm done. Sorry boys.

I have been a subscriber for 10 years. I have enjoyed the discussion here and had time to mull it over. In the intervening time since my first post I have received a variety of hard copy mailings, emails and magazine inserts from PCW, all offering renewals, all at different prices, all way above what it would cost me if I were living in the U.S. One offer quoted "The lowest price you will ever get" while at the same time the magazine offered a lower price. It's difficult to take PCW seriously when they engage in all this nonsense.

So, all things considered, they have driven me away. I will not be renewing when my subscription expires in a couple of months. Yes, I will continue to avail myself of the on-line articles, comforted by the knowledge that I really tried to remain a paid subscriber but, in the end, I had to succumb to their relentless pressure to drive me away. If I were to do otherwise, I would have to shun the written word and start bleating like the sheep that they seem to think I am.

[smax013]

buddyboy, on 03 October 2011 - 05:00 AM, said:

johnjohnjohn, on 02 October 2011 - 04:48 PM, said:

8 years now a subscriber. For me the price difference is not justified. When my subscription comes up for renewal, I'm done. Sorry boys.

I have been a subscriber for 10 years. I have enjoyed the discussion here and had time to mull it over. In the intervening time since my first post I have received a variety of hard copy mailings, emails and magazine inserts from PCW, all offering renewals, all at different prices, all way above what it would cost me if I were living in the U.S. One offer quoted "The lowest price you will ever get" while at the same time the magazine offered a lower price. It's difficult to take PCW seriously when they engage in all this nonsense.

So, all things considered, they have driven me away. I will not be renewing when my subscription expires in a couple of months. Yes, I will continue to avail myself of the on-line articles, comforted by the knowledge that I really tried to remain a paid subscriber but, in the end, I had to succumb to their relentless pressure to drive me away. If I were to do otherwise, I would have to shun the written word and start bleating like the sheep that they seem to think I am.

I will agree that PCWorld (and just about every other magazine that I get) plays a stupid game with "best price" and "last chance" BS. I constantly get "this is your last chance for this rate" subscription renewal notices for my various magazines...and then typically get the same deal next month. And the fact that they start this crap even right after I renew my subscription shows further stupidity on their part.

But, for me, it is just an annoyance.

As to the Canadian price, I can respect your decision. As I said before, if you think it costs too much, then don't get a subscription. It is literally that simple. You have expressed your concern and if they are unable (i.e. their extra costs to ship to Canada won't let them) or unwilling to address that concern, then that is about all you can do. They gotta do what they gotta do and you gotta do what you gotta do.

Now, I will point out (again) that if enough people do that, then PCWorld might go "bye, bye" and you won't even get the free content on the website. Admittedly, that may not be too likely, but you never know. Personally, I would hate to see that. So, as I have said, I consider the subscription as a way of me supporting a magazine that I like and would like to have survive. Even at $50 for two years, that is still only about $2 a month. While for some, that might actually "break the bank", I suspect for many that is just a drop in the bucket. And keep in mind that I generally find about 5% to 10% of any one issue to be of any significant value to me....but that small nugget of value is worth the subscription cost to me.

[LiveBrianD]

Honestly, I would be perfectly fine accepting the ads, but they slow down the page loading (even on a quad-core machine, though with integrated-class graphics), so I keep my ad blocker enabled. If they were just plain animated images that didn't slow things down at all, I'd leave the adblocker disabled. Besides, even with adblockers, there's often space reserved on the side for them anyway. For instance - the homepage - there's a gray spot on the right where ads belong. As for the one at the top (and no space is wasted there with an ad blocker), well, I have an older 5:4 monitor so that's not as much of an issue, but on a 1366x768 laptop it is. Particularly when that's an 11" laptop and I usually zoom into 120% or so, thus giving me even less effective height. Add in the toolbars and such, and then I have even less space for the page. I just messed with the IE fish tank demo (because when you zoom in, it renders at a lower res and blows it up, and tells you what that res is). I made the window about 1366x768 (plus w7 toolbar w/ small icons), and at 120%, I have about 1140x540px. 540px doesn't go far, particularly with ads in the way.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 08 October 2011 - 06:00 PM