[Taayzer]

Alright,so ihave been using windows systems all my life, and my last 2 notebooks have been acers. Ive had my current one for 2 years, and its starting to die out. So Ive decided I want to upgrade to a mac, but I am not sure which of the few ive been looking at to buy.

I was originally gonna go with a used model, 2 years old maybe for 700 bucks, but after looking around allot, decided i want the2011 model.

Canadas apples refurb has some good oes for sale.

First one is a
13inch model13.3-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit glossy widescreen display, 1280-by-800 resolution
4GB (2 x 2GB) of 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM
500GB Serial ATA @ 5400 rpm
8x double-layer SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Intel HD Graphics 3000 with 384MB of DDR3 SDRAM

priced at 1299$$

second one is

15.4-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit glossy widescreen display, 1440-by-900 resolution
4GB (2 x 2GB) of 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM
500GB Serial ATA @ 5400 rpm
8x double-layer SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Intel HD Graphics 3000 and AMD Radeon HD 6490M

priced at 1599

Third one is from ebay, a 'trusted' power seller.

MACBOOK PRO 2.0 i7 15 8G 500GB QUAD CORE
for 1599


Now, the thing I want to know,is how much quicker is quadcore compared with dual core??and the ebay one has 8GB of ram, would that make it the best choice?
Is the difference between quad and dual big ebough to warrant 300 more dollars?

[waldojim]

You need to give us information on how you will be using the machine in order for us to tell you which will be quicker for you. The quad cores use a slower clock per core. Simple tasks like web browsing may actually appear slower on the quad core. On the other hand, if you edit video, or work in photos, the quad core will prove to be far superior.

The 15 also has a dedicated video card, and that complicates things even more.

[LiveBrianD]

What are you going to be doing with it? Also, quad cores run hotter and have shorter battery lives. I'm not sure I'd trust ebay with something like this.

[Taayzer]

I'll mainly use it for webbrowsing/movies/music. But with that said, I want to get into photoshop again. I took courses in school, but havent used it in a few years, as just thinking about it makes my current computer crash.
Im living in asia, so I take allot of pictures as well. So im looking for something that'll run quick in all departments??? MY gf will also be using it, strictly for websurfing/movies music.

Currently, if im running a instant messenger/music and web surfing my laptop now really starts to lag. OR if i try and watch a movie, while doing something else, it gets really choppy.

i noticed the graphics card in the 15 inch. I dontplay much games though.
Batterylife isnt much of an issue, as itll be plugged in mostly.
I was under the impression that quadcore pretty well doubled the processing power, making it 2x faster in all aspects(browsing, photoshop ectect)?

EDIT: Also, does a 8GB vs 4GB make a big difference? Theres nothing in the refurb with 8gb, but was jsut wondering. And yeah, i dont know if i trust ebay.

This post has been edited by Taayzer: 29 August 2011 - 07:29 PM

[Evildave]

Quad core will be faster with heavy multitasking and/or multithreaded apps. Or running a VM more smoothly. Games with 3D rendering pipelines will also benefit.

For a simple, single-threaded app, a quad core won't be any faster than a dual core.

8GB makes a world of difference if you run a virtual machine. Rather than dual boot, I can't recommend 'Parallels' enough, if you're gonna run your old windoze apps on the Mac. The keyboard shortcuts are sorted/emulated. It opens them in the same windows as all the other apps... or you can run the VM in its own little box, like I do. Native filesystem for mapped host drives, and game-worthy emulated graphics performance. It's pretty cheap software for all it does, too.

[waldojim]

Taayzer, on 29 August 2011 - 07:28 PM, said:

I'll mainly use it for webbrowsing/movies/music. But with that said, I want to get into photoshop again. I took courses in school, but havent used it in a few years, as just thinking about it makes my current computer crash.
Im living in asia, so I take allot of pictures as well. So im looking for something that'll run quick in all departments??? MY gf will also be using it, strictly for websurfing/movies music.

Currently, if im running a instant messenger/music and web surfing my laptop now really starts to lag. OR if i try and watch a movie, while doing something else, it gets really choppy.

i noticed the graphics card in the 15 inch. I dontplay much games though.
Batterylife isnt much of an issue, as itll be plugged in mostly.
I was under the impression that quadcore pretty well doubled the processing power, making it 2x faster in all aspects(browsing, photoshop ectect)?

EDIT: Also, does a 8GB vs 4GB make a big difference? Theres nothing in the refurb with 8gb, but was jsut wondering. And yeah, i dont know if i trust ebay.

Ok, that impression you have of the quad core is very incorrect. The chances of a load balancing out correctly and efficiently enough for you to see a 100% gain per core, are almost non-existent. Remember these facts.

FACT 1. A single threaded application (web browser for example), will only operate as fast as a single core will allow. Meaning that if you have two identical machines, one with a 2.7Ghz dual core, and one with a 2.0Ghz quad core and all else being equal, the 2.7Ghz dual core WILL be faster. Every time.
FACT 2. Multi threaded applications are far and few between. This is not as easy as 'turn on multi-core/multi-threading support. This requires a conscious effort while making the application. iTunes, Safari, QuickTime, and many other programs are single threaded. Photoshop, and Final Cut Pro are multi-threaded.
FACT 3. Even when multithreading is enabled, and available to the application, a perfect load balance is nearly impossible to achieve. Meaning that even though Adobe Photo Shop CAN use 4 cores, it will not be able to balance out the load to make them all work at their peak usage. This means that even though people like to think that 4 cores at 2.0Ghz each = 8Ghz, it does not. Rarely do you see anything close to that kind of performance.

There is a very good reason I got a dual core i7 in my W520. The applications I use can benefit more from high clock rates, than multiple cores. That is true in OSX as well. Based on what you are suggesting for usage, I would NOT recommend a quad core system.

Occasionally dabbing in PS doesn't warrant the extra cost, or slower general performance that Quad cores will bring with them. If the MBP 13 is in your price range, and offers what you want in terms of usability, go for it. No need to take on a used machine just to get the quad.

[LiveBrianD]

There's no need for 8GB RAM unless you use VMs. Trust me, I upgraded to 8GB because I use vmware a lot, but otherwise I only use about 2-3GB. For everything else, 4GB is enough. Well, and maybe you'll use more than 4GB with photoshop. I haven't managed to though.

[Taayzer]

Thanks for all your help!

The second one i listed is quadcore, still a refurb, so i could still get the 15inch with just a little extra money(well, 300 bucks..)

Im so indecisive about things like this..Aside from my car, this is the most expensive purchase iveever made. Ive got a pretty good idea of cars, and how the run, but high end computers im clueless.

Also, for those using a 13 inch, do you find its small, or alright? Im using a 17 ich now, which ive grown accustomed too.

So you think using the 15inch quadcore would be a waste? No need to get it?
Both are the macbook pros, 2011 model.

Would it be worth it to go with a 2010 model, 15inch dualcore? I think id prefer a 2011, but what do i know :-p

This post has been edited by Taayzer: 30 August 2011 - 07:46 PM

[waldojim]

If you are buying a refurb from Apple directly, don't worry about the model year. I prefer 13" machines myself, as they are actually portable. Right now, it isn't really an option, so I live with a 15" beastie.

[Evildave]

I'm using a 13" Macbook Air to type this, and I like it lots. It's light enough to pick it up by a corner with my fingertips. It was kind of helpful earlier today when I started a VOIP call with google voice, and absentmindedly carried the computer around like a ridiculously big cell phone.

When you put it in a bag, it's like you're carrying nothing at all. Lots of runtime, but kind of lightweight for gaming. 4GB+256GB SSD is plenty OK for virtual machines and my work.
http://store.apple.c...ily/macbook_air

[smax013]

Taayzer, on 28 August 2011 - 11:37 PM, said:

Alright,so ihave been using windows systems all my life, and my last 2 notebooks have been acers. Ive had my current one for 2 years, and its starting to die out. So Ive decided I want to upgrade to a mac, but I am not sure which of the few ive been looking at to buy.

I was originally gonna go with a used model, 2 years old maybe for 700 bucks, but after looking around allot, decided i want the2011 model.

Canadas apples refurb has some good oes for sale.

First one is a
13inch model13.3-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit glossy widescreen display, 1280-by-800 resolution
4GB (2 x 2GB) of 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM
500GB Serial ATA @ 5400 rpm
8x double-layer SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Intel HD Graphics 3000 with 384MB of DDR3 SDRAM

priced at 1299$$

second one is

15.4-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit glossy widescreen display, 1440-by-900 resolution
4GB (2 x 2GB) of 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM
500GB Serial ATA @ 5400 rpm
8x double-layer SuperDrive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Intel HD Graphics 3000 and AMD Radeon HD 6490M

priced at 1599

Third one is from ebay, a 'trusted' power seller.

MACBOOK PRO 2.0 i7 15 8G 500GB QUAD CORE
for 1599


Now, the thing I want to know,is how much quicker is quadcore compared with dual core??and the ebay one has 8GB of ram, would that make it the best choice?
Is the difference between quad and dual big ebough to warrant 300 more dollars?

Taayzer, on 29 August 2011 - 07:28 PM, said:

I'll mainly use it for webbrowsing/movies/music. But with that said, I want to get into photoshop again. I took courses in school, but havent used it in a few years, as just thinking about it makes my current computer crash.
Im living in asia, so I take allot of pictures as well. So im looking for something that'll run quick in all departments??? MY gf will also be using it, strictly for websurfing/movies music.

Currently, if im running a instant messenger/music and web surfing my laptop now really starts to lag. OR if i try and watch a movie, while doing something else, it gets really choppy.

i noticed the graphics card in the 15 inch. I dontplay much games though.
Batterylife isnt much of an issue, as itll be plugged in mostly.
I was under the impression that quadcore pretty well doubled the processing power, making it 2x faster in all aspects(browsing, photoshop ectect)?

EDIT: Also, does a 8GB vs 4GB make a big difference? Theres nothing in the refurb with 8gb, but was jsut wondering. And yeah, i dont know if i trust ebay.

Based upon the usage that you described, I would say go with the 13" unless you feel that a 13" screen is too small for you use. Keep in mind that if you are mainly using it as a "pseudo" desktop, then you can always use an external monitor in those situations to get a bigger screen. The point is that the 13" should do what you need it to do.

It appears the primary reason to go to one of the 15" would be for the larger screen. The other big difference is that it will have a discrete video card, but I did not see any thing in your usage that would really benefit from it (unless Photoshop might...and I really have no clue if Photoshop might benefit from a better graphics system or not).

As to the quad core vs. dual core, waldojim pretty much covered that well. The only thing that I would note is that if you go with a current model 15", then you will get a quad core whether you want it or not. If you want to go with the 15" but want a dual core, then you will be looking at an older model.

As to RAM, you likely will be fine with 4 GB. The one thing that might benefit from more RAM would be Photoshop. If you are just using it "casually", then 4 GB should be fine. If you are going to be doing LOTS of heavy-duty Photoshop editing, then 8 GB would be better. Keep in mind that either of those systems with 4 GB can be upgraded to 8 GB if you find you need it. It is not that hard to do at all.

Lastly, as I believe someone else mentioned, I would tend to say go with one of the Apple Refurbs. I say this because Apple Refurbs tend to come with a FULL Apple warranty, just like if you bought it new. It looks like the only difference between the two 15" MBPs that you listed is that one has 8 GB of RAM. Considering that an 8 GB RAM upgrade is like $75 US (assuming you are willing to install it yourself) through the likes of OWC, the Apple Refurb seems to be the much better option even though it costs the same. This is due to the fact that it should come with a full Apple warranty (you will want to verify that...I know that is the case in the US, so I would assume it is true in Canada as well).

Actually one more thing...have you ever used a Mac before? I mentioned this because some people switch and don't like it. While the Mac OS is very similar to Windows in many regards, there will definitely be small, even subtle, differences. And those small/subtle differences have been known to annoy some people big time. I am not necessarily trying to discourage you as I love my Macs (more than my Windows machines), but don't want you to walk completely blindly in if you have not used a Mac before. Even if you have not, there is a good chance that you would have no issues, but there is a small chance that you might.

[smax013]

Evildave, on 30 August 2011 - 09:22 PM, said:

4GB+256GB SSD is plenty OK for virtual machines and my work.

This is a little off-topic, but how does Parallels run on your Air? I have not gotten around to installing Parallels on my 11" Air yet, so I am curious.

[Evildave]

Well, let's see (boots my Windoze XP in parallels with all the older Adobe crap). Comes up pretty quick on the SSD. Got Lion on the MBA, and Parallels was already caught up to that.

I don't use 'Modality' or 'Coherence' (to put the Windoze start menu on the launchpad and open windoze crap in OS X windows), but it seems to work in 'Full Screen' or 'Window' mode along-side other things and play nice.

"Work fine, last real long time!"

[smax013]

Evildave, on 31 August 2011 - 01:03 PM, said:

Well, let's see (boots my Windoze XP in parallels with all the older Adobe crap). Comes up pretty quick on the SSD. Got Lion on the MBA, and Parallels was already caught up to that.

I don't use 'Modality' or 'Coherence' (to put the Windoze start menu on the launchpad and open windoze crap in OS X windows), but it seems to work in 'Full Screen' or 'Window' mode along-side other things and play nice.

"Work fine, last real long time!"

Good to know.

I have never messed with the Coherence, etc crap. I just keep my XP VM in its own window (or maybe full screen) for the few times that I use it.

I will likely get around to it eventually for the few times I might need to run my structural software on my Air (assuming that I remember to carry the stupid software lock dongle for the structural software...grrrrr...on the plus side, it does mean that I can have it installed on as many machines as I want...just have to have the dongle plugged in for it to work). Haven't really had the need yet...

I have not decided if I like Lion or not. It won't work with my RAID NAS because it appears those LaCie bastards won't be upgrading pre2009 NAS devices to work with Lion. Grrrrrr. Guess no more LaCie products for me.

[LiveBrianD]

smax013, on 31 August 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

I have not decided if I like Lion or not. It won't work with my RAID NAS because it appears those LaCie bastards won't be upgrading pre2009 NAS devices to work with Lion. Grrrrrr. Guess no more LaCie products for me.

I thought those things use the same file sharing protocol as anything else. I don't like lacie either though, after the PCB failed in mine after 4 or 5 years of light usage...

[Evildave]

Well, the ONLY thing I like Lion for on the MBA is the three finger swipes from one full screen app to the next, but for the moment, quite a lot of apps don't properly support it.

So (for now) you can have Safari open and a full-screen Terminal, and a full-screen this or that Apple applications, but all the other 'full screen' stuff that hasn't been updated and rebuilt to support the new 'full screen' windowing API just stack onto one desktop.

But it's still nice, rather like the Linux multiple desktop thing, but with a pad gesture (or control+arrow).

There definitely isn't anything much in Lion for an older iMac or other desktop, like my late 2009 iMac, especially if you already use multiple monitors. Most of it really is new hardware support (for the new hardware) and usability updates that make the portables nicer, and adding extra iPad-like behaviors and animations. Oh, and the widgets and the launchpad. Meh.

[Taayzer]

Great, thanks all for your heLP! Ill be going with the 13inch. My dad will purchase it for me, and ship it to china(Where im living/wokring right now).

Yeah ive used a mac before. Most of my collegues use them, so I have fiddled with them here and there, and I like it. Takes getting used too, but I should be able to manage.

I have the option for lion, or the previous OS(Lepord?), should i get lion? From what I just read, im a bit unsure now.

[Evildave]

Snow Leopard is the previous OS X. If you're getting a portable, I vote Lion. But don't buy one computer versus another for that. You can upgrade to Lion for $39 through the app store, so it's not that big a deal, one way or another.

[smax013]

LiveBrianD, on 31 August 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

smax013, on 31 August 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

I have not decided if I like Lion or not. It won't work with my RAID NAS because it appears those LaCie bastards won't be upgrading pre2009 NAS devices to work with Lion. Grrrrrr. Guess no more LaCie products for me.

I thought those things use the same file sharing protocol as anything else. I don't like lacie either though, after the PCB failed in mine after 4 or 5 years of light usage...

Apple made some changes to AFP in Lion that broke how the NAS works with a Mac running Lion. In theory, SMB should work still, but I am not having the best of luck with that either (it is taking FOREVER for stuff to just start to copy). Someone told me that there is some reports of bugs with SMB with Lion. End result is that my Air does not really work with my current NAS at the moment. This is kind of a problem. As such, I might revert to Snow Leopard...and then partition the drive to allow a second boot drive with Lion (I really should have done that to begin with...I will probably do that with my MacBook Pro soon). This should allow me to boot into either and still work with all my apps...unlike Windows, Mac apps typically can work with multiple boot drives without needing to reinstall the apps. The whole Registry bit with Windows does kind of hose that ability for most apps in Windows.

I am pissed that LaCie will not support a NAS product that is only about three years old for the newest OS. An NAS drive is something that people will tend to use for a rather long time. This is something that small businesses would tend to use if they did not want to go to a full server. This tells me that one SHOULD NOT buy a LaCie NAS if you have any desire to use it for more than two years or so.

[smax013]

Evildave, on 31 August 2011 - 05:57 PM, said:

Well, the ONLY thing I like Lion for on the MBA is the three finger swipes from one full screen app to the next, but for the moment, quite a lot of apps don't properly support it.

So (for now) you can have Safari open and a full-screen Terminal, and a full-screen this or that Apple applications, but all the other 'full screen' stuff that hasn't been updated and rebuilt to support the new 'full screen' windowing API just stack onto one desktop.

But it's still nice, rather like the Linux multiple desktop thing, but with a pad gesture (or control+arrow).

There definitely isn't anything much in Lion for an older iMac or other desktop, like my late 2009 iMac, especially if you already use multiple monitors. Most of it really is new hardware support (for the new hardware) and usability updates that make the portables nicer, and adding extra iPad-like behaviors and animations. Oh, and the widgets and the launchpad. Meh.

While I don't typically run any apps in the full screen mode, I do agree that the swipe between desktops is nice. I do tend to put some apps on their own desktop. But, since I tend to run most apps with multiple windows open in that one app (I currently have 4 windows open in Firefox), full screen just don't cut it. If I wanted to run a full screen app, I would have gotten an iPad. I could see running the Mail app in full screen on occasion, but I still tend to prefer windowed apps. When I get around to running Parallels on this thing, I could see running Parallels in full screen and finding that rather useful.

Speaking of Mail, I do rather like many of the changes there. I do like the new search in Mail. It is pretty slick. I also like have multiple flag categories...kind of a simple thing that has rather significant value for me. Not really sure if I like the new layout or old, but since you can switch between the two, it is not a huge issue. I don't really like how it handles attachments...I liked how the old Mail app had the section with the "hide" arrow that would then show the attachments as icons.

I like many of the new gestures, but it would be nice if Apple allowed for some more customization of them. Maybe some enterprising third party program will come along and do that.

I do like Versions and Autosave and Resume...but as you mentioned, this is somewhat limited at the moment as most apps don't support it. Once Office supports that stuff, they will get a LOT more useful. But, Resume is rather slick...at least with an Air. I can leave everything open and restart the computer and BAM...everything opens back up. Slick as snot. And because of the SSD with the Air, it does it FAST. Not sure how well that will work with my MBP. Combine the slow traditional hard drive with all the stuff that I have load on start up already (such as iStat to monitor the temps and fans as well as a few other things) and then through in having to re-open a bunch of apps...and boot times on such a restart on the Pro might take FOREVER. We shall see when I setup a test Lion install on it.

But, I LIKE Versions. Since Office does not support it yet, I have not really put it to good use in a practical sense. But I have played with it in Pages. In theory, Microsoft will add Versions support to Office...sometime...maybe before I die.

Since I use BusyCal, I have not really used iCal at all. Addressbook seems to have some things that I like, but I kind of hate the look. The one thing that I do like is that is it MUCH easier to see what the last name vs first name is in the list. The old Addressbook was very frustrating in that sense.

I have not used LaunchPad version much. I am just so used to using either the Dock or the Apps folder on the Dock.

I have mixed feelings about Mission Control. As I get more used to some of how it works it is growing on me. While I did not use Spaces as extensively as some, I had used it some and gotten used to how it worked, so the fact that much of Spaces got tossed threw me for a little loop. But, I am finding that I am adjusting.

Oh, and I turned off "natural scrolling". I would potentially had gotten used to it, but why bother.

And I DEFINITELY turned of the iPhone type auto-spell check/suggestion thingie. That was annoying as hell. I tend to HATE "autocorrect" stuff. When I install Word on a new computer, that is one of the first things I turn off. If I freakin' wanted to type that, then I would have typed it, thank you very much!