[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Cheap Ink and Toner: The Puzzle Behind the Price here

[GlennWeltkd7h]

I'm sure the author of his article had good intentions but she failed to mention a few pertinent facts:

1. Article does not compare ANY toner cartridge pricing and some retailers offer a house brand for laser printers at much lower prices.
2. Most OEM ink and toner cartridges are NOT completely full of ink or toner. Private label and refilled cartridges may have up to 6 times as much ink or toner in them. I know this to be a fact because my business sells MICR toner cartridges (for printing checks) and we make most of them from OEM cartridges. The major brands including Dell, Hp, Lexmark and Samsung NEVER completely fill their toner cartridges. IMHO this is intentional because they make huge profits by selling partially filled cartridges.

P.S. BBB Accreditation is not the same as a business rating. Accreditation is sold to businesses by the BBB (like buying a political endorsement). The number of BBB complaints and how the merchant deals with them does matter.

[DeeChristopher]

GlennWeltkd7h, on 15 September 2011 - 06:18 AM, said:

I'm sure the author of his article had good intentions but she failed to mention a few pertinent facts:

1. Article does not compare ANY toner cartridge pricing and some retailers offer a house brand for laser printers at much lower prices.
2. Most OEM ink and toner cartridges are NOT completely full of ink or toner. Private label and refilled cartridges may have up to 6 times as much ink or toner in them. I know this to be a fact because my business sells MICR toner cartridges (for printing checks) and we make most of them from OEM cartridges. The major brands including Dell, Hp, Lexmark and Samsung NEVER completely fill their toner cartridges. IMHO this is intentional because they make huge profits by selling partially filled cartridges.

P.S. BBB Accreditation is not the same as a business rating. Accreditation is sold to businesses by the BBB (like buying a political endorsement). The number of BBB complaints and how the merchant deals with them does matter.

Glenn the author specifically mentions the focus wasn't toner/ink alternatives... "I’m not talking about buying third-party options--the refill kits and remanufactured ink cartridges that PCWorld’s Serial Refiller has tried." IMO, the focus was direct price comparisons of specific items by different vendors. I think the author chose OEM items to remove the variables and focus only on price. The item really wasn't important.

[free2speak]

I use the HP 564XL, and I do not find any big price competition. The going price is $17.99 on the web or in my local store. I use Staples most of the time. I take advantage of the recycling and rewards that Staples offers. Even Walmart offers zero competition on price for HP ink. You singled out Staples, but if you had an HP Photosmart you would find Staples is competitive in an uncompetitive market.

[PCWMRiofrio]

Hello, this is Melissa Riofrio. Thanks to DeeChristopher and GlennWeltkd7h for reading the story and posting your thoughts.

The chart in the story is a sample, illustrating the prices I found for just one of the printers researched. The six printers I researched included three lasers (one monochrome, two color) and three inkjets, some multifunction, some single-function. The brands were Brother, Canon, Epson, HP, and Lexmark.

As DeeChristopher noted, I focused on OEM cartridges, not third-party alternatives.

This story just scratched the surface of what could turn into several stories about the intricacies of shopping for ink and toner; shopping online in general; the black art of retail pricing; and more. Thanks again for your time.

DeeChristopher, on 15 September 2011 - 07:15 AM, said:

GlennWeltkd7h, on 15 September 2011 - 06:18 AM, said:

I'm sure the author of his article had good intentions but she failed to mention a few pertinent facts:

1. Article does not compare ANY toner cartridge pricing and some retailers offer a house brand for laser printers at much lower prices.
2. Most OEM ink and toner cartridges are NOT completely full of ink or toner. Private label and refilled cartridges may have up to 6 times as much ink or toner in them. I know this to be a fact because my business sells MICR toner cartridges (for printing checks) and we make most of them from OEM cartridges. The major brands including Dell, Hp, Lexmark and Samsung NEVER completely fill their toner cartridges. IMHO this is intentional because they make huge profits by selling partially filled cartridges.

P.S. BBB Accreditation is not the same as a business rating. Accreditation is sold to businesses by the BBB (like buying a political endorsement). The number of BBB complaints and how the merchant deals with them does matter.

Glenn the author specifically mentions the focus wasn't toner/ink alternatives... "I’m not talking about buying third-party options--the refill kits and remanufactured ink cartridges that PCWorld’s Serial Refiller has tried." IMO, the focus was direct price comparisons of specific items by different vendors. I think the author chose OEM items to remove the variables and focus only on price. The item really wasn't important.

[PCWMRiofrio]

Hi, this is Melissa Riofrio. Thanks for taking the time to comment. You brought up a topic I decided not to include for this story, but it's another interesting one: HP and Canon both seem to have very close control over how their ink is priced. It's evident in the sample table we posted for the story (for the Canon Pixma MG5320), and for the HP printer I used for my research. If the price is the same everywhere, then incentives like those Staples offers could make more of a difference--you're getting something back, even if it's just store credit. Thanks again for your time.

free2speak, on 15 September 2011 - 09:34 AM, said:

I use the HP 564XL, and I do not find any big price competition. The going price is $17.99 on the web or in my local store. I use Staples most of the time. I take advantage of the recycling and rewards that Staples offers. Even Walmart offers zero competition on price for HP ink. You singled out Staples, but if you had an HP Photosmart you would find Staples is competitive in an uncompetitive market.

[free2speak]

[quote name='PCWMRiofrio' timestamp='1316108836' post='532092']
Hi, this is Melissa Riofrio. Thanks for taking the time to comment. You brought up a topic I decided not to include for this story, but it's another interesting one: HP and Canon both seem to have very close control over how their ink is priced. It's evident in the sample table we posted for the story (for the Canon Pixma MG5320), and for the HP printer I used for my research. If the price is the same everywhere, then incentives like those Staples offers could make more of a difference--you're getting something back, even if it's just store credit. Thanks again for your time.


Hi Melissa,

I just used $14 worth of Staples Rewards yesterday so the rewards do add up. Staples occasionally doubles the reward for recycling. I recycle multiple cartridges at the same time. It can be tricky because sometime there is a substantial minimum purchase of ink, and the rewards have a time limit so you must return to Staples soon to use them or lose them.

[Rndmacts]

The author doesn't elaborate enough on deliveries, Business Customers such as myself usually have orders that are in the hundreds of dollars, shipping is always free and if ordered before 5:00 p.m, delivery is the next business day. HP will give me free delivery but not next business day. I have tried other sites but they don't give the advantages that Staples does and I have never had a problem if I had to return a purchase. You may pay a dollar or two more per cartridge but you receive much more in good will that the charts don't reflect.

[PCWMRiofrio]

Hello again, I see you've got the Rewards program figured out! Good for you. I can see how it would be good for other people, too. I would like to look into the loyalty programs at the other office superstores; that would be a fun comparison. Thanks for your comments!

free2speak, on 15 September 2011 - 01:54 PM, said:

PCWMRiofrio, on 15 September 2011 - 09:47 AM, said:

Hi, this is Melissa Riofrio. Thanks for taking the time to comment. You brought up a topic I decided not to include for this story, but it's another interesting one: HP and Canon both seem to have very close control over how their ink is priced. It's evident in the sample table we posted for the story (for the Canon Pixma MG5320), and for the HP printer I used for my research. If the price is the same everywhere, then incentives like those Staples offers could make more of a difference--you're getting something back, even if it's just store credit. Thanks again for your time.


Hi Melissa,

I just used $14 worth of Staples Rewards yesterday so the rewards do add up. Staples occasionally doubles the reward for recycling. I recycle multiple cartridges at the same time. It can be tricky because sometime there is a substantial minimum purchase of ink, and the rewards have a time limit so you must return to Staples soon to use them or lose them.

[WalterLuffman]

I almost always buy OEM cartridges for my inkjet printers, and consider the higher price worth it for both warranty protection and printing consistency. Granted, I don't do a lot of printing so I don't use a lot of ink. Unfortunately, I live in a rural area with few shopping option, so for me it's usually Walmart (if I need it immediately) or Amazon.com (when I'm stocking up). And I have bought ink directly from Canon's website when they offer good prices on bundle-deals.

[PCWMRiofrio]

Hello, this is Melissa Riofrio. Thanks for your comments. I'm actually neutral on Staples; they were completely open about what they provide in exchange for the price they charge. It's not much different from what, say, a high-end department store offers: a better experience, for a higher price. You're right that there is a lot more to shipping; I could have written a much longer article just on that. I do realize that shipping charges change if you're talking about an individual vs. a business customer. The complexity just in what you describe below is a perfect example. It's possible that this brief, surface skim of the shopping experience will inspire other shopping stories. Thanks again for your time.

Rndmacts, on 15 September 2011 - 02:48 PM, said:

The author doesn't elaborate enough on deliveries, Business Customers such as myself usually have orders that are in the hundreds of dollars, shipping is always free and if ordered before 5:00 p.m, delivery is the next business day. HP will give me free delivery but not next business day. I have tried other sites but they don't give the advantages that Staples does and I have never had a problem if I had to return a purchase. You may pay a dollar or two more per cartridge but you receive much more in good will that the charts don't reflect.

[PCWMRiofrio]

Hello, this is Melissa Riofrio. Thanks for taking the time to comment. You're lucky that you don't have to buy too much ink! Have you looked into loyalty or reward programs such as those offered by Staples? Worth considering for mail-order purchases. One thing another reader brought up, though, is that there might be an expiration date on the store credits you accrue; if you don't buy things very often, you might lose your store credits. So that's something you'd have to check. Appreciate your comments.

WalterLuffman, on 15 September 2011 - 03:50 PM, said:

I almost always buy OEM cartridges for my inkjet printers, and consider the higher price worth it for both warranty protection and printing consistency. Granted, I don't do a lot of printing so I don't use a lot of ink. Unfortunately, I live in a rural area with few shopping option, so for me it's usually Walmart (if I need it immediately) or Amazon.com (when I'm stocking up). And I have bought ink directly from Canon's website when they offer good prices on bundle-deals.

[charlottedwyer]

Strangely coincidental that I spent 3+ hours on Tuesday with my LEXMARK S405 printer after I changed my black cartridge to a new remanufactured cartridge and the printer would not work. The error message was "printer will not print. Replace Black Cartridge." The problem is that it would not recognize the chip in the cartridge. All 3 new color cartridges and the new black were useless. I had to mail them back to the company yesterday after I called their tech support. They are going to replace them with OEM LEXMARK cartridges. The LEXMARK company fools around with my settings without my permission and changes the settings for my remanufacted cartridges. This is not fair practice. I should be able to use a competitors product which is about half the cost. The first set of remanufactured cartidges I received did work. But after a LEXMARK FIRMWARE UPDATE, they did not. . What suggestion or info do you have regarding LEXMARK'S UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES AND CONTROLS?

This post has been edited by bcappel: 16 September 2011 - 09:16 AM

[PCWMRiofrio]

Dear Charlotte, thanks so much for taking the time to comment, and I sympathize with your situation. None of the printer vendors can prevent the use of third-party cartridges, but they can make it difficult. It's possible that another remanufactured line will work where the other didn't. You should definitely share your experiences with the remanufacturer and get theit input before you buy. Good luck.

charlottedwyer, on 16 September 2011 - 07:36 AM, said:

Strangely coincidental that I spent 3+ hours on Tuesday with my LEXMARK S405 printer after I changed my black cartridge to a new remanufactured cartridge and the printer would not work. The error message was "printer will not print. Replace Black Cartridge." The problem is that it would not recognize the chip in the cartridge. All 3 new color cartridges and the new black were useless. I had to mail them back to the company yesterday after I called their tech support. They are going to replace them with OEM LEXMARK cartridges. The LEXMARK company fools around with my settings without my permission and changes the settings for my remanufacted cartridges. This is not fair practice. I should be able to use a competitors product which is about half the cost. The first set of remanufactured cartidges I received did work. But after a LEXMARK FIRMWARE UPDATE, they did not. . What suggestion or info do you have regarding LEXMARK'S UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES AND CONTROLS?

[buddyboy]

Why is it that virtually no ink articles seem to mention the existence of continuous ink supply systems? Such CISS systems cost around $50, and thereafter you can print full colour pictures for a relatively miniscule cost. How about really serving your customers, PCW, and doing an article on CISS?