[brummpa]

Microsoft missed the boat by not providing a simple, user friendly upgrade from XP to Win 7. Why did I have to go to Laplink to get what they could have so easily produced? If MS wants people to change they should give them means. Or is that too simple?

[adixon]

What's wrong with flip phones?

[rich44]

Most people fear the loss of familiarity and the added expence of required upgrades on other hardware not supported in W7. Like a purchased tv, many poeple will not buy another until it stops working entirely.

[sphinx]

GradyPhilpott, on 25 October 2011 - 02:52 PM, said:

For those running XP, the issue is undoubtedly one of hardware.

I love 7 and the transition from XP to 7 was as easy as any transition I've seen yet, but of course, I made the change when I dumped my old computer.

Apparently, a lot of folks don't want new hardware, although it's hard to see why.

There are lots of reasons, you are right, mostly it is hardware. If you go from XP to 7 you need to upgrade your hardware. Not just your PC but most probably some accessories or software because most likely they won't run on 7. You will be lucky if the manufacturer has support for upgrading. If your OS is working fine for your needs what is the point of upgrading? I know there's a lot of people still using Pentium 4 not because they can't afford new ones but because their system works perfectly for their needs. However, if you are a computer savvy and spend most of your time on your PC then that's a good reason to upgrade...

[annontechsupport]

WinTard, on 25 October 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

Based on these kind of stats, don't worry, Microsoft won't miss you either!

[img]

LOL@ ~600 windows 98 users.

[DavidVallier]

Hey Mickey $oft, why don't you use the TIME, MONEY and EFFORT in fixing XP, instead of rolling out a new OS every few years, XP is a darn good system and like a lot of people WILL NOT UPGRADE just because mr money bags says we have to. Forget Vista, win 7 and 8, take all your software engineers and plug all the holes and bugs in XP FIRST, then work on a different OS but let the USERS decide what they what to use. After all it's the USERS who ultimately pay your wages.

[wildlinux]

WinTard, on 26 October 2011 - 11:53 AM, said:

Hey this week's special: 16GB DDR3 $99 at TigerDirect

And that unlocked i7 with extreme mobo looks mighty interesting....

http://www.planetdmc...%2015-47-47.png

Hey to satisfy every persuasion out there, load whatever OS you please!

Live and let live. Don't step on another person's beliefs just to feel adequate.

~~~~~~~~~~
There is nothing either good or bad... But thinking makes it so.
~ William Shakespeare

[dragon69]

WinTard, on 26 October 2011 - 02:29 PM, said:

infoDave, on 26 October 2011 - 01:45 PM, said:

WinTard, on 25 October 2011 - 05:51 PM, said:

Funny, I've been told many a times that Apple won't miss me...

Well what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.

Based on these kind of stats, don't worry, Microsoft won't miss you either!

[image]

And that is the simple truth.

Thanks WinTard. Net Applications changed their reporting a couple of months ago to separate PC's and Mobile. I didn't realize that the combined data was still available.

Granted, Microsoft isn't going away anytime soon. But Microsoft is no longer the 800 pound gorilla in the room. Microsoft is now complying with standards, not making up 'standards' of their own.

Here's a spreadsheet and graphs of Net Applications data, going back to 2004:

https://docs.google....N0x1WnBFX3dWVEE

Microsoft needs to turn it around or they are going to lose dominance.

Wow thanks infoDave for this info, I wasn't aware of it.

I suspect something big is about to happen with Windows 8 since it now transcends all major CPU platforms. With .NET technologies, the dream of write once, run anywhere might finally become a reality.

You'd be surprised, but Microsoft actually sets standards that are actually being adopted and become true worldwide standards.

Examples?

http://en.wikipedia....n_and_licensing
http://www.planetdmc...%2018-19-29.png

That is probably why computer science university curriculum for undergrads usually is comprised of C# and .NET and not proprietary Java under other frameworks. Because they are internationally accepted open standards. In addition although the inventors didn't have to, these standards are actually royalty free. The only reason they are patented but not proprietary is to prevent other patent trolls from patenting said technologies, then raping others as we can witness with what another trendy brand is doing with their competition. Thanks Microsoft!

Frankly, I do not think Microsoft wants to dominate anything, since they've been there for many years already. Whereas others, who have not experienced that status, are desperately seeking it. In the end, everybody realizes that it is no big deal, once you've had.

~~~~~~~~~~
You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.
~ Albert Einstein (German born American Physicist who developed the special and general theories of relativity. Nobel Prize for Physics in 1921. 1879-1955)

After a certain point, money is meaningless. It ceases to be the goal. The game is what counts.
~ Aristotle Onassis

When fire and water are at war, it is the fire that loses.
{Spanish Proverb}

The fire you kindle for your enemy often burns yourself more than him.
{Chinese Proverb}

yeah maybe they set one standard but they still can not get the size of our hard drives right ( well in the bullies eye they say it is right but they do not conform to industry standards in how to measure hard disk drives)

[wildlinux]

WinTard, on 26 October 2011 - 11:53 AM, said:

Hey this week's special: 16GB DDR3 $99 at TigerDirect

And that unlocked i7 with extreme mobo looks mighty interesting....

http://www.planetdmc...%2015-47-47.png

Hey to satisfy every persuasion out there, load whatever OS you please!

Live and let live. Don't step on another person's beliefs just to feel adequate.

~~~~~~~~~~
There is nothing either good or bad... But thinking makes it so.
~ William Shakespeare

I saw that today too heck I don't need it but it is tempting.Have to sell my old machines to make room lol.

[dragon69]

nancyeash, on 26 October 2011 - 02:13 PM, said:

I for one,want to know who is going to pay for ?buy a brand new computer for me?I am on a fixed income.Going back to college to better my self/income.All the colleges,and all the govermnet offices in Arizona are using the Windows Xp.So ,why should I ,stop using Windows Xp?The goverment is still using it.Is Microsoft going to give me a brand new computer with Windows 8( or what ever comes along) hasn't sover comes along)
I think not.I would much like to see another pc company ,go against Microsft.The tec knowlagey is out there.Why hasn't someone other than MIcrosoft-marked it?Made it available to the people.

well nancyeash maybe wintard will donate one to you as she is rich and has atleast ten computers in her home so she should not really miss one of them .... right!!!!

[WinTard]

wildlinux, on 27 October 2011 - 10:59 AM, said:

I saw that today too heck I don't need it but it is tempting.Have to sell my old machines to make room lol.

I didn't need that six-core 8GB system either, but it was too tempting to pass... Since my current HTPC doesn't have that -108dB signal to noise ratio BluRay audio chip...

But I figured my existing HTPC is running dual-core Intel with 4GB DDR2, I might as well go to DDR3 not just for the performance increase, but also cost-effectiveness, since $99 buys you 16GB DDR3 RAM nowadays. The old mobo didn't support that. Technically, a 32GB DDR3 RAM would only cost roughly $200.

I'll reuse the old mobo just for using SpinRite, Secure Erase, and HDD / SDD diagnostics, as it took me 36 hours for SpinRite to completely fix corruptions on a WD-500 GB older backup drive.

BTW: I have nothing but praise for this SpinRite 6, it is truly magical software, weighing in at only 170KB but does the job! How much is your data worth? I will venture to state SpinRite is the absolute best software investment I ever made!

I mean, the HDD failed with hard errors, that were unrecoverable. Nothing NTFS could do about it. Yet after 36 hours of low-level (automatic) data-reconstruction, every single file was back!!

So that is why I somehow justified I needed yet another HTPC (this time with 6TB HDD space).

People, check out this SpinRite! It is truly amazing to see your DEAD HDD revived with zero errors or data loss!

~~~~~~~~~~
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
~ Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)
English physicist & science fiction author (1917 - )

[useralrx]

Why is 7 better? Win 7 is buggy and lot slower than XP on same hardware. Is not about getting used to it is about functionality, XP is more functional and faster, nuff said.

[Lindhoff]

WinTard, on 26 October 2011 - 02:07 PM, said:

Lindhoff, on 26 October 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:

snipped for brevity:

WinTard, on 26 October 2011 - 09:43 AM, said:

I run XPM under Windows 7 for four specific reasons:

• An oldie but goodie Canon scanner, with only 32-bit drivers for XP. The fault lies with Canon, since they are responsible for providing driver support to Canon's customers. So in my Windows 7 64-bit, I virtualize XP-SP3 32-bit so I can use these obsolete peripherals. Bottom line everything still works!
• A thermal labeler from Brother, also with only 32-bit drivers for XP. The fault lies with Brother, since they are responsible for providing driver support to Brother's customers. So in my Windows 7 64-bit, I virtualize XP-SP3 32-bit so I can use these obsolete peripherals. Bottom line everything still works!
• Anything stupid enough not to follow proper API written by nincompoops so called developers thus only runs under Windows XP, still runs perfectly virtualized under XPM under Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit. That answers blows away those who claim their 'critical' programs that only runs under Windows XP and use that as an excuse to stay in prehistoric ages.
• Ever heard of Moore's Law? Now XP splash screen says: Copyright Microsoft 1985-2001. That's prehistoric in terms of technology!

Whilst I largely agree with this post (especially the first part of point 3), point 3 doesn't "blow away those who claim their 'critical' programs that only run under Windows XP and use that as an excuse to stay in prehistoric ages." For XPM you need W7 PROFESSIONAL or greater and top-notch hardware (and there are restrictions to graphics etc.). Not all who need to protect their investment in XP programs have either the resources to purchase the quality equipment required or the ability to install it all and understand sufficient about virtualisation to make it happen. Far better perhaps for those users to keep a couple of old PC's about to run the older XP programs until their demise and invest in less complex W7 systems that gives some future-proofing.

I find it very hard to advise my clients to buy systems & OS they do not need, especially in the current financial climate. They ask themselves "what benefit do I get from W7" - answer is usually nothing!

Hello Lindhoff, welcome to our wonderful PC World Community.

While I appreciate your feedback and perspective, I'd like to add:

• The reason Microsoft provides a full, legal, upgradeable and supported full license to to the real Windows XP Professional SP3 in Windows 7 Professional and above, is that Home versions of any Microsoft products can't provide 'downgrade' licensing rights to Professional versions. Makes sense? Anyway, the cost of a Professional License of Windows 7 also provides you (in addition to many other benefits such as bitlocker just to mention one) with a license to Windows XP Professional as well. Home versions are optimized for costs vs functionality. Why pay for something that most home users might never use?
• Your clients in any small business with more than (5) nodes should be using the Professional or higher versions of Windows, since that main difference is the Active Directory domain model of security with SSO (Single Sign-On).
• Any real business presumably wouldn't see a problem between a $50 home license to a $100 professional license per node, or at least I hope not? Considering Windows XP has been there since 2002 and will continue to be supported until 2014?
• Your answer of no benefit from Windows 7 vs Windows XP, simply means you do not deeply understand your trade; such as no continued support for a discontinued Windows XP, or significantly higher security, reliability and lower TCO for Windows 7 deployments.
• One can get 16GB of DDR3 ultra fast RAM for $99, whereas 16B of DDR2 or DDR ultra slow would significantly cost more. So please dot ignore some of the current technologies I posted, such as this 8GB RAM six-core system for less than $300.
• Granted, Windows 7 is so reliable that any consulting business may not be viable anymore; since the complexities and inherent problems with Windows XP have been weeded out and simplified for simple users. Basically Windows 7 just works out of the box. Back in 1982, my consulting rate was $125/hr. It is obviously higher now.
• Especially in the current tight financial climate is it important not to miss the forest for the trees, or be penny wise yet pound foolish. The TCO of maintaining a failing and obsolete system will be order of magnitudes higher than refreshing it to contemporary standards. Call it preventive maintenance.

But what do I know, I only speak from experience?

Cheers!

~~~~~~~~~~
Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them.
~ Albert Einstein

If everything is always priority one then nothing really is.
{Prioritization 101}

Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.
~ Benjamin Franklin (American Statesman, Scientist, Philosopher, Printer, Writer and Inventor. 1706-1790)

Smart is when you believe only half of what you hear. Brilliant is when you know which half to believe.
~ Orben's Current Comedy

I guess you are correct that after merely 45 years experience (working for manufacturers and the most renowned of consultancy companies) supporting and working with IT clients in all aspects of systems from operations to communications & networking etc. etc. and not merely PCs) I do not understand my trade!!!
If you read again my posting you will understand from it that is is my clients who do not find sufficient advantages in Windows 7; try as I might to persuade them otherwise. I'm semi-retired and run my own consultancy business for small/medium enterprises that typically run on a shoestring budget. They are in the business of making money and not spending it. They are grateful for my assistance in keeping them going without spending on new kit until they absolutely need it. If I went to them saying they had old rubbish that needed upgrading (irrespective of the advantages) I'd be laughed off the premises. You clearly have great fortune working with clients who actually want to spend money, or can be persuaded to do so.
And my consulting rate was vastly higher than $125 back in '82.

[WinTard]

Interestingly, you do not make any references to any of the points I made about the benefits of the current Windows versus a discontinued, and obsolete version of WIndows, two levels of generation down?

Lindhoff, on 27 October 2011 - 12:48 PM, said:

{Snipped for brevity}
I find it very hard to advise my clients to buy systems & OS they do not need, especially in the current financial climate. They ask themselves "what benefit do I get from W7" - answer is usually nothing!

~~~~~~~~~~
Everyone rises to their level of incompetence.
~ Laurence J. Peter, "The Peter Principle"

This post has been edited by WinTard: 27 October 2011 - 04:17 PM

[dragon69]

WinTard, on 27 October 2011 - 11:20 AM, said:

wildlinux, on 27 October 2011 - 10:59 AM, said:

I saw that today too heck I don't need it but it is tempting.Have to sell my old machines to make room lol.

I didn't need that six-core 8GB system either, but it was too tempting to pass... Since my current HTPC doesn't have that -108dB signal to noise ratio BluRay audio chip...

But I figured my existing HTPC is running dual-core Intel with 4GB DDR2, I might as well go to DDR3 not just for the performance increase, but also cost-effectiveness, since $99 buys you 16GB DDR3 RAM nowadays. The old mobo didn't support that. Technically, a 32GB DDR3 RAM would only cost roughly $200.

I'll reuse the old mobo just for using SpinRite, Secure Erase, and HDD / SDD diagnostics, as it took me 36 hours for SpinRite to completely fix corruptions on a WD-500 GB older backup drive.

BTW: I have nothing but praise for this SpinRite 6, it is truly magical software, weighing in at only 170KB but does the job! How much is your data worth? I will venture to state SpinRite is the absolute best software investment I ever made!

I mean, the HDD failed with hard errors, that were unrecoverable. Nothing NTFS could do about it. Yet after 36 hours of low-level (automatic) data-reconstruction, every single file was back!!

So that is why I somehow justified I needed yet another HTPC (this time with 6TB HDD space).

People, check out this SpinRite! It is truly amazing to see your DEAD HDD revived with zero errors or data loss!

~~~~~~~~~~
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
~ Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)
English physicist & science fiction author (1917 - )

nancyeash could use your old machine if it is just getting in your way!!!

[MRudas]

"Windows 7 currently has more than 32 percent of the desktop operating system market, and its share is rising steadily, according to Net Applications."
But adoption by businesses is going VERY slowly. Considering that Win7 has now been available for over 2 years, it's a pretty poor showing...
http://www.computerw..._on_a_slow_roll
...and the overall uptake of Win7 is flattening, not accelerating:
http://mrpogson.com/...option-flattens

There just is no compelling reason to upgrade from WinXP to Win7 unless you are getting a new PC—and if the old PC is working well, why switch? A substantial learning curve, new software requirements, and the fact that Win7 won't run properly on many older graphics cards, printers, etc. are deal breakers for many businesses and home users alike.

[ForrestEvans]

written by the makers of windows 7.

[WinTard]

Heh, to all the cheapskates naysayser: Try to do that with XP!

http://www.geekwire....-future-awesome
http://www.planetdmc...%2001-48-23.png

~~~~~~~~~~
To unparted waters, undreamed shores.
~ William Shakespeare

People cannot discover new lands until they have the courage to lose sight of the shore.
~ André Gide

People are eternally divided into two classes, the believer, builder, and praiser, and the unbeliever, destroyer and critic.
~ John Ruskin

[amphi]

Microsoft XP won't die yet. I still have software that runs on XP, so that won't die. Maybe hide into the cosmos of OS galaxy, but will never die.

[DavidDoumeche]

I recently installed a XP on a virtualbox vm:

I had forgot how the interface was extremly clean, smooth, more usuable than anything shipped today.
Icons are well designed, clear.
It respond as fast or more than my Windows 7 64 host, boot as fast.

It use 114Mo, 5Go of hard disk. Compare that to what is used by a typical Windows 7 installation : 1Go and 20Go on c:\windows alone (thanks winsxs people).

No wonder it's fast.
No wonder business is still using it, there is no reason to switch to any version shipped since vista (and I can't stop thinking Eight will be a proud successor).
No wonder some people are moving to mac.

But unfortunalty, Microsoft teams and fanboys are in denial because the sad truth is than they have lost the mastery of their own OS.