[nonseq]

linuxrants7xpg, on 09 January 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

NewTeKnology, on 09 January 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

Time to disprove your argument for Linux

1. It doesn't matter if they like Windows or not they won't leave regardless because Linux doesn't play the games. So your argument they may not like Windows doesn't matter as it won't switch them to Linux either way.

2. Again last I checked Windows Office didn't work on Linux nor did other true business software. Yet you won't give an example of what business software does run on Linux. How interesting.

3. Really? There's like 80% Windows users like 18% OSX users and maybe 2% Linux users. Guess what? 2% of 100% is a failure. 2% of 100% is not popular no matter how you look at it. I don't know what math class you took but last I checked 2% was about as low as you can get outside of 1% and 0%. And all 2% are hackers and tech geeks.

Also another fact to show Linux will never go mainstream. Dell offered Ubuntu as an alternative to Windows. Guess what? Almost no one chose Ubuntu. This alone proves Linux will never go mainstream. If major computer companies can't make Linux sell, no one can.

The fact is you haven't disproved any of my claims. You haven't disproved Gamers, Business or basic users switching to Linux one day. Your arguments are "IF Linux played their games they'd switch to Linux because they don't like Windows". So what? Even if it's true it's not gonna convert them to Linux until they do. "Linux is already popular". Again 2% of anything is not popular and the fact major companies have tried to give people a choice between Linux and Windows and 99% of people chose Windows.

None of that constitutes proof, just speculation on your part.

1. I used to keep a Windows partition on my computer purely for games. Finally, the wasted disk space annoyed me enough that I blew Windows away permanently and just went out and bought an XBox.

2. There's no such thing as Windows Office. If I assume you're talking about Microsoft Office (fairly likely), then keep in mind that Microsoft Office isn't the only act in town. IBM has business class software as well, if you're not willing to use LibreOffice or OpenOffice for some reason.

3. As of March, it was estimated that over 76 million people use Linux. Maybe you think that's a failure, but I don't.

Estimation from whom, based on what? 76 million is about 2% of est 1.5 bln computers worldwide. That leaves 1,424 million that are not linux.

As I have repeated Linux is a wonderful OS for those who have the time and technical acumen to make it work for them. Up until now it has not proven compelling for the majority of Everyman users. Until it provides a cohesive OS with compelling applications it will continue at the 2% marketshare that it has held for a decade and a half.

LibreOffice and OpenOffice are the equivilent of maybe Office 2003 only harder to use and less consistent. If that's good enough for you, terrific. It's not good enough for the majority of users.

This post has been edited by nonseq: 10 January 2012 - 07:27 PM

[KalyanChatterjea1t68]

I am not a geek! Started using Ubuntu little over a year back because my XP operating system got corrupted and I could not find the original disk. Now in the office I use two notebooks - one Windows 7 (provided by my office) and Ubuntu 11.10 (on my own laptop). Most of the graphic work is done on my Ubunto laptop Inkscape/ Libreoffice Draw and sometimes in Gimp. I am really glad that I switched to Linux. I find compatibility between Windows & Ubuntu very good. Also Wine is helping me use my favourite Windows program like Irfanview!!...Really grateful to all the smart guys who are selflessly contributing...and now even ordinary people like me can use Linux!!

[Teg]

Some of you are complaining about lack of support for popular distros outside of message boards.

If hand holding is what you need for personal or business use, both Canonical and Red Hat offer paid support much in the same way that Microsoft offers paid support.

[JasmineLopez]

Whahaha I lol'd... thank you...

[JasmineLopez]

Whahaha! I lold.... thank you so much..
Try using Linux for more than 2 days without pulling your hair out.
If you need to do REAL work go for a mac or windows pc, seriously.
No one really needs to switch to Linux... ever.

[blaineclrk]

Rudeness was an issue on one forum branch on the Ubuntu forums for me. I'm not a script writer and I was looking for a script to obfuscate the characters in email addresses when including them in web pages. The prime concern was not broadcasting the email addresses in a manner that they could be read and stolen by spam-bots. The person who responded posted one link after another to one online converter after another after I repetitively said I wouldn't trust anything online not to be a front for a harvester of email addresses, which is what I was aiming to avoid. On that thread all I continued to get was link after link to online converters. I filed a complaint with the moderator and was slammed because the person who was responding WAS trying to help ... in the moderator's opinion! That's the only time and place I've ever seen total lack of help and understanding from even a moderator. Sure, you're going to get the occasional smart alec, but either ignore them, or if they're too persistent and you know their comments are chasing off others who can help you, resort to communicating your problem to a moderator. If that fails, then you know that particular forum is a failure and a waste of everyone's time. They aren't promoting the use of Linux for anything but their own arrogance.

[SiddharthShanbhogue]

This was a good post. Pretty much everything written here, was true, and the comments below are pretty interesting.

Here are some points I believe we must take home at the end of the day

1. Linux is a collaborative effort. The fact that it is being developed and used by millions of people, who are working for its betterment without any support/monetary benefits is applaud-worthy.

2. Many of the people here have compared Linux to the Biggie "Microsoft Windows". How can you compare two things, which are totally in different places? Windows is developed by a Company, that focuses on business and profits. Great job, and all that.
Linux is being developed by People, just for betterment of others. not to make money. Linux is not meant to make things super easy for others. It is made so that others get their tasks accomplished without the need to go for proprietary, costly and often misleading software options.
Yes, its not a hunky dory route. but Things will improve, as someone said, they always do.

3. I would say the option of using Linux is a million times better than using pirated copies of windows. Face it, There isn't one locality in your/our/mine neighborhoods which does not contain one nerd/kid/adult who is downloading windows off the p2p network. Hell, where I am from, you can get free pirated copies installed for you from the computer hardware vendors, even before you get your pc home. In such a world, I find Linux a better, ethical, and moral option. Yes, I cant afford Windows 8, and yes, most of my friends will download the iso images when it releases. Yes, Linux is not as user friendly as windows can be, YET.

Well, So what?


4. The forums are filled with all sorts of people. Someone here complained about rudeness in forums. All I can say to him is:
Well, Dude, Its the Internet, for Christ's sake! You get 60 year old bald guys here, masquerading as 20yr old virgins!
You just got a bit of rudeness from an anonymous forum member.
You should consider yourself lucky.

Yes, SOME forum members tend to be rude.
But most of us help out as much as we can. Even newbies get help in most forums.
What really gives rise to rudeness, is that some posters post their queries without bothering to get their facts right, or bothering to get check if someone else already got the same issue, posted in the forum, and got it solved ages before.

Everyone pays a price for knowledge.
So too, shall you,
So too, shall we all.

[explodingwalrusa3xv]

puterdood, on 02 January 2012 - 07:35 AM, said:

I have an issue with #8, "It's Well Supported". I have never gotten anything but rude and insulting comments when I posted questions about Linux. I realize that most of those that responded were probably teenagers just being arrogant. But such incidents have left me with bad Linux experiences. I still don't consider it a viable alternative to replacing Windows for business-related functions. The OS and the Linux community in general needs to "grow up" to be taken seriously. I have continued to tinker with it to learn about it on my own. But I would recommend staying away from the forums if you don't want to be insulted, leaving a bad taste for Linux.

Both Canonical and Red Hat (amongst others) have paid support for businesses

[explodingwalrusa3xv]

JasmineLopez, on 25 January 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

Whahaha! I lold.... thank you so much..
Try using Linux for more than 2 days without pulling your hair out.
If you need to do REAL work go for a mac or windows pc, seriously.
No one really needs to switch to Linux... ever.

You cannot expect to know how to use any OS properly in two days. Linux does a lot of real work, just ask WETA, NASA, London and US stock exchanges, various governments etc

[mchenier]

There are a lot of reasons to switch to GNU-Linux but the GOOD ones for me are:

1. Breaking free of monopolies(Microsoft and Apple)
2. Ensure data continuity through open standards
3. Ensure knowledge sharing
4. Provide accessibility to information technology to developing countries
5. Provide employment to local programmers

If you believe in certain principles you must often make efforts to achieve your goals. I have made ​​efforts, but now, I'll never return back.

“Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it.”
― Andy Rooney

[jschuhr]

I was mostly struck by the repeated references to either icing or taking the proverbial cake.

[JasonGrima]

TechConc, on 04 January 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

As much as I like all things UNIX-like, Linux on the desktop is still a non-starter for most unless your needs are extremely basic.

Linux's biggest strengths are also its biggest weakness. Take items #1 & #2. Diverse and customizable sound great on paper, but that's also shorthand for inconsistency. Desktop users expect a higher level of consistency then that which is offered by the Linux market.

3. Open Source - Great, but lots of things are open source. In my opinion, Apple's Mac OS X has it right. Use open source for common technologies, but provide a consistent (albeit proprietary) interface. Best of both worlds.

4. Free - Free is great. I like things being free. The problem is, this just underscores why Linux on the desktop isn't competitive. It's free and still nobody cares. I use Linux in the server environment all the time. I tinker with it on the desktop from time to time, but it's not a suitable replacement for either Windows or Mac.

5. Reliable - Great, so is every other modern OS these days.

6. Fast - Yes, Linux is fast. However, I don't think there is any real support to Katherine's claim regarding Linux being faster across the board or even the small footprint claim. Different OS's are optimized for different things. Both Microsoft and Apple have small footprints on phones, etc. I'm not sure Katherine understands the difference between a Kernel and an OS distribution.

7. Secure - Yes, Linux is relatively secure. However, I'd like to know more about Katherine's evidence which suggests Linux is the most targeted OS for malware. I believe that honor goes to Windows.

8. Supported - I wouldn't say Linux in general is any better supported than either Windows or Mac. Some Linux distributions are less supported than others.

9. Always improving - Great, so is everything else.

10. Compatible - Compatible with some things, yes. Still, this comes back to looking at the applications you primarily use and looking at the Linux desktop alternatives. For example, GIMP is nice, but it's not a Photoshop replacement, etc.

Wow... Of all the things I use linux for, my "extremely basic" needs are the least of it. What exactly do you want to do that Linux cannot provide? Edit documents? create graphics? surf the web? movie & music editing? What is this vast array of tasks that Linux cannot match up to?

Then you're specific points:
3. yes, consistency is nice. For example, I love when the HOME and END keys on the keyboard always take me to the beginning and end of a line. In OSX, this is a "sometimes" feature, often (but not always) failing over to CMD+LEFT and CMD+RIGHT. It's also nice to have a consistent means to cut + paste via the keyboard. In OSX, you can do this with CMD+X and CMD+V, unless you're working with FILES, then the mighty APPLE decides that it is "not an intuitive mechanic to CUT and PASTE a file" - even though the majority of GUI systems do just that, as it's consitent with your text/graphics/video/etc editor functions.

4. Linux is ABSOLUTLEY a suitable SUBSTITUTE for Window or Mac, I've switched windows with Linux since the release of Vista crippled my reasonably powerful computer, and I decided to take it back and get refund. 7 years later, I REALLY don't miss windows. Could probably do the same to or from Windows 7 or OSX (mostly).

5. yep, I'll pay that point.

6. Ubuntu (one of the larger (feature rich) linuxs) is a 640mb ISO and installs to 2.somthing GB stock (including Libre Office, GIMP, media player and a bunch more). Windows 7 is ~3.6GB iso and installs to 11GB, without office or photoshop. So the footprint argument is a non-starter. Re: phones. You can get linux distributions smaller than 100mb, Android, Puppy, DamnSmallLinux - all functional, customisable desktops.

7. Read it again, she said WINDOWS is most targeted.

8. fair point, maybe. How often do you go to MS or Apple to help you with your computer? Or are we including dedicated community support for those expensive proprietary products?

9. fair point.

10. GIMP is a very good SUBSTITUTE for photoshop, like linux is a very good SUBSTITUTE for windows and a car is a very good SUBSTITUTE for a motorcycle. But in ALL cases if you "replace" windows with linux, and expect it to BE windows, you'll be sorely disappointed. Same in reverse. Meanwhile same if you replaced XP with Vista OR (now) xp/vista/7 with windows 8 and expected it to be the same, you'll be in for a shock.

But I suspect the author was alluding to things like, open document standard, multi-lingual support, protocol support, etc. NOT letting you use a single company's, proprietary or intentionally obfuscated file formats.

[HankRearden]

GIMP is not a sub for Photoshop. If you think it is, you've no concept of pre-press.

[techie4fun]

I find OS's attractive. SUSE Linux is just sexy looking. Unity in Ubuntu is awesome, but the lack that I can't run my regular Windows applications IN Linux keeps me from using Lin fully. Linux is good for basic web browsing, word processing and e-mail, but if your job requires you to use Photoshop on a daily basis you won't find the support in Linux.

[RickDobbelmannqbtt]

HankRearden, on 03 May 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

GIMP is not a sub for Photoshop. If you think it is, you've no concept of pre-press.

Gimp > Photoshop

http://registry.gimp.org/

[nonseq]

HankRearden, on 03 May 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

GIMP is not a sub for Photoshop. If you think it is, you've no concept of pre-press.

I find the GIMP to be a rough equivalent to Photoshop v. 2. Those who don't see this probably don't need the capabilities of PhotoShop and probably aren't able to use them anyway. It's a shame that application developers haven't created a high end graphics program for Linux. Wine just doesn't get it. To claim otherwise is to insult those who need quality imaging programs.

This post has been edited by nonseq: 03 May 2012 - 09:42 AM

[TechConc]

JasonGrima, on 03 May 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

Wow... Of all the things I use linux for, my "extremely basic" needs are the least of it. What exactly do you want to do that Linux cannot provide? Edit documents? create graphics? surf the web? movie & music editing? What is this vast array of tasks that Linux cannot match up to?

Just to be clear. I like Linux, especially as a server. In my opinion, it just doesn't cut it on the desktop. Why? Probably the single biggest reason is because of the lack of the best applications. Please, don't tell me about wine, etc. Emulation isn't the same as native applications. Regarding applications, sorry, but GIMP is fine for many things, but it's simply not on par with something like Photoshop. The same holds true for many other categories of applications.

Specifically, you ask:

Quote

"What exactly do you want to do that Linux cannot provide? Edit documents? create graphics? surf the web? movie & music editing? What is this vast array of tasks that Linux cannot match up to?"

Technically, I can do all of these things on my iPad as well. That doesn't make it a suitable replacement for my desktop, now does it?

Now, to address your specific concerns...

3. I'm not sure what you're talking about. You can cut and past a "file" in OS X.

4. Yes, Linux is a suitable replacement if your needs are more simple. Sorry, but you're going to have a hard time convincing people who are used to more capable software like Adobe Creative Suite or Final Cut Pro, etc. that Linux solutions are on par. They are not.

5. Apparently we agree.

6. Again, I don't see your point. The point I made with something like iOS and OS X is that it's scalable depending on needs. If you want to make the point that the default distribution on Linux is less. Okay. I don't argue that. Of course, then it's worth a discussion to see what's missing in the Linux distribution. Much of OS X for example involves multiple language support, etc. Much of the actual install is optional.

7. Yes, my mistake... Windows is most targeted. That's great if you want to rely on the security through obscurity routine.

8. No apparent disagreement here...

9. Ditto.

10. GIMP is as much a substitute for Photoshop as a motorcycle is a substitute for a car. Again, if your needs are simple, no problem. Anyone with a family for example might not be ready to make that substitute. Nor would they make that substitute in bad weather, etc, etc. Sorry, but claiming Linux is on par here is just silly.

Linux is great in many ways. I use it all the time in a server environment. It's all about using the right tool for the job. However, on the desktop, it's just not as viable alternative to either Windows or Mac. It's capable yes. Just not as well supported by the best applications.

[linuxrants7xpg]

TechConc, on 03 May 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

Please, don't tell me about wine, etc. Emulation isn't the same as native applications.

First of all, WINE is not an emulator. Second, can you please elaborate on what about using an application in WINE isn't the same as running a native application? I'm curious why you think that is.

TechConc, on 03 May 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

Sorry, but you're going to have a hard time convincing people who are used to more capable software like Adobe Creative Suite or Final Cut Pro, etc. that Linux solutions are on par.

Why is it that every time software is brought up, it always comes back to some Adobe graphical application suite or some video editing tool? Do you honestly believe that the majority of computer users are splicing video and reticulating splines?

[waldojim]

linuxrants7xpg, on 03 May 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

First of all, WINE is not an emulator. Second, can you please elaborate on what about using an application in WINE isn't the same as running a native application? I'm curious why you think that is.

Lets try the obvious: Because applications end up broken running under Wine.

[linuxrants7xpg]

waldojim, on 03 May 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

linuxrants7xpg, on 03 May 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

First of all, WINE is not an emulator. Second, can you please elaborate on what about using an application in WINE isn't the same as running a native application? I'm curious why you think that is.

Lets try the obvious: Because applications end up broken running under Wine.

Doesn't look broken to me. Care to be more specific?

This post has been edited by linuxrants7xpg: 03 May 2012 - 04:00 PM