[Yerdah]

Hi

I am a post graduate student studying a Msc Product Engineering Design at Strathclyde University and I am currently doing a thesis on gaming chairs. My project goal is to develop an audio chair prototype that improves the immersion of the games and makes the user feel like they are in the game itself by using sound, physical feedback and other psychophysics techniques.

I am currently investigating the current trends of gaming chairs such as the technology they incorporate such as sound, lights, materials etc. I am also trying to find out what are the most common issues that are currently faced with gaming chairs and how are companies trying to resolve these problems in addition how successful have they been in overcoming these problems.

I was wondering if you may be able to help me by providing information about the development of gaming chairs and possibly give me advice on what to consider in my audio chair prototype such as audio, physical feedback and other criteria it should fulfil.

Your assistance would be greatly appreciated
Kind Regards

Andrew

[mjd420nova]

Yerdah: Welcome to PC world forums. Gaming chairs can be likened to a robot. You are feeding outputs from the game in audio and control shaking devices but on a larger scale. Think a NASA flight simulator in a hanger somewhere. Vibrators in a chair, under the seat, in the armrests and lower lumbar can give realistic effects. Some chair elevation or tilt racks can help create G effects and even zero G feelings. The wireless controlers have opened some new areas and the motion sensor ones have really expanded the horizons. Chair material must be matched to compliment the speaker selection. Armrest mounted joysticks and buttons add more versatile applications and adaptation to other game types.

This post has been edited by mjd420nova: 08 January 2012 - 07:28 PM

[Yerdah]

Thanks for your reply as the stuff you have said has been very helpful such as the vibration idea in which I should look into more. I have found out some chairs have sub woofers that vibrate the chair but I'm looking in other physical feedback mechanisms. I am currently researching current chairs and ones available to find out what has been and gaps in the market. I am also trying to find their major flaws so I can aim it in not improving the involvement of the player but also addressing issues such as comfort and robustness in some chairs.

Since my project brief requires me to use sound, physical feedback and psychophysics. I have only scratched the surface in psychophysics and found out about binaural beats and its perceived effects on the user as I have an idea that chair would play them at certain points in a game. I have been talking to people about using stuff like that and been told I would need to program the chair to know what game, what tunes to play, when and how long etc. For testing and presentation I have planned that I will create a custom map on Left4Dead or Amnesia and test the chairs features for that map.

I'll need to find out how much funding I'll get for the project so that I know exactly what I can do but I'll find that out in 2 weeks time after I have a meeting with my advisor. I am planning to do something just unique and ambitious. The project's deadline is the 1st week of September and I was "officially" to start on June but now would be best since this will be a big project and I have a lot to learn.

So once again I would like to say thanks for your output and any info like that is very helpful to me

This post has been edited by Yerdah: 09 January 2012 - 08:14 AM

[SikFly]

i'm just gonna toss in my opinions and experiences, hopefully it'll help with your project.

You want to look into Tactile Transducers. Not to be confused with the rotating weights found in gamepads, those are different than what i'm talking about. I use one myself. For cheap, i recommend the "aura bass shakers". other brands to research are "Buttkicker" and "Clark Synthesis".
Some chairs out there may use this as well, but most if not all gaming chairs out there are made dirt cheap and thats the main problem i see, their just too cheap and use a subwoofer which is inadequate for feedback.
Now you need an amp, 50-100 watts. too much has little effect. Use a low frequency >40hz and never higher than that. The low frequencies from the games themselves will provide more physical feedback than a subwoofer, but also provide hearing of low frequencies through your body that a subwoofer would give. Not that it should replace a subwoofer mind you (<40hz)
You also need to separate the chair from the floor. This is called decoupling. Clark Synthesis makes good decouplers.
The player will then feel quite a bit of physical feedback from bombs exploding, hits..etc. So with a good tuned amp, you won't need to do anything specific to the game or write any code.

Another research area, is common gamer needs and luxuries. Sitting low to the floor, as most gaming chairs are, is pretty typical of gamers and makes storage easier...so i would look into perhaps a way they could be raised and lowered to meet those demands who wants to sit higher and of course the ability to lean back as a typical rocker chair would. Perhaps a scissor jack like mechanism which would save space and raise and lower to each extreme.

As far as comfort, i would take a look at your typical "bucket seat" found in some cars. Though their not usually accommodating for heavy set people due to the flared sides, i think that basic design would be a good place to start. Take note of "storage" ability. Something lacking in gaming chairs today is the ability to fold it away. Perhaps folding the seat down as you see in car seats is a good start.

Now to get more involved and fill a potential gap would be to use hydrolics. Some old racing arcade games would use such. As you hit bumps, the hydrolics would lift up and down and tilt side to side similar to what you see in car kits. But you would need to program for the game and hydrolics to work together, also would be pricey.
Further still would be something like a 360 rotating sphere found in some Airplane SIMs..super pricey.

As far as audio, i'm not sure what your planning on. Placement? how user percieves it? Most all gaming chairs seem to produce an adequate sound and generally placed along the sides of the chair with controls on one side. You could perhaps add a pair next to the headrest beside the users head. Options for Headphones is something i don't think many on the market have but i may be wrong. Major flaws currently are just poor quality audio due to cheap speakers and amps.

Storage for game controllers/peripherals would be a good idea. but if your looking to improve whats out there, portability and weight should be #1 priority. Many gamers are gonna want to move it around or take it to a friends house...so look into very light materials.
consider Neodymium speakers. consider removing any housing thats used on amplifiers and use a fan based method of heat removal. If a scissor like jack or whatever your mounting to is used, consider aluminum. Main goal though is to try to keep this portable as possible.

An attachment in front of the seat that would allow for attaching of steering wheels is a good idea. A simple, foldable arm of sorts that can hold a steering wheel in front of the player AND a keyboard mouse for someone who is say, playing on a HTPC or just wants to set an arcade stick on it.

Perhaps you can find some small, hydrolic motors that will react to low frequencies? that might make for some interesting physical feedback. just a thought, hope any of that helps.

[Yerdah]

SikFly, on 09 January 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

i'm just gonna toss in my opinions and experiences, hopefully it'll help with your project.

You want to look into Tactile Transducers. Not to be confused with the rotating weights found in gamepads, those are different than what i'm talking about. I use one myself. For cheap, i recommend the "aura bass shakers". other brands to research are "Buttkicker" and "Clark Synthesis".
Some chairs out there may use this as well, but most if not all gaming chairs out there are made dirt cheap and thats the main problem i see, their just too cheap and use a subwoofer which is inadequate for feedback.
Now you need an amp, 50-100 watts. too much has little effect. Use a low frequency >40hz and never higher than that. The low frequencies from the games themselves will provide more physical feedback than a subwoofer, but also provide hearing of low frequencies through your body that a subwoofer would give. Not that it should replace a subwoofer mind you (<40hz)
You also need to separate the chair from the floor. This is called decoupling. Clark Synthesis makes good decouplers.
The player will then feel quite a bit of physical feedback from bombs exploding, hits..etc. So with a good tuned amp, you won't need to do anything specific to the game or write any code.

Another research area, is common gamer needs and luxuries. Sitting low to the floor, as most gaming chairs are, is pretty typical of gamers and makes storage easier...so i would look into perhaps a way they could be raised and lowered to meet those demands who wants to sit higher and of course the ability to lean back as a typical rocker chair would. Perhaps a scissor jack like mechanism which would save space and raise and lower to each extreme.

As far as comfort, i would take a look at your typical "bucket seat" found in some cars. Though their not usually accommodating for heavy set people due to the flared sides, i think that basic design would be a good place to start. Take note of "storage" ability. Something lacking in gaming chairs today is the ability to fold it away. Perhaps folding the seat down as you see in car seats is a good start.

Now to get more involved and fill a potential gap would be to use hydrolics. Some old racing arcade games would use such. As you hit bumps, the hydrolics would lift up and down and tilt side to side similar to what you see in car kits. But you would need to program for the game and hydrolics to work together, also would be pricey.
Further still would be something like a 360 rotating sphere found in some Airplane SIMs..super pricey.

As far as audio, i'm not sure what your planning on. Placement? how user percieves it? Most all gaming chairs seem to produce an adequate sound and generally placed along the sides of the chair with controls on one side. You could perhaps add a pair next to the headrest beside the users head. Options for Headphones is something i don't think many on the market have but i may be wrong. Major flaws currently are just poor quality audio due to cheap speakers and amps.

Storage for game controllers/peripherals would be a good idea. but if your looking to improve whats out there, portability and weight should be #1 priority. Many gamers are gonna want to move it around or take it to a friends house...so look into very light materials.
consider Neodymium speakers. consider removing any housing thats used on amplifiers and use a fan based method of heat removal. If a scissor like jack or whatever your mounting to is used, consider aluminum. Main goal though is to try to keep this portable as possible.

An attachment in front of the seat that would allow for attaching of steering wheels is a good idea. A simple, foldable arm of sorts that can hold a steering wheel in front of the player AND a keyboard mouse for someone who is say, playing on a HTPC or just wants to set an arcade stick on it.

Perhaps you can find some small, hydrolic motors that will react to low frequencies? that might make for some interesting physical feedback. just a thought, hope any of that helps.

[Yerdah]

Sorry for earlier post somehow just left a quote instead of me sending a reply

One of my mates at uni told me about air muscles for a possibility of physical feedback. In the audio section I was thinking of having a pair of speakers on a headrest (the head height would be adjustable)at chest height, and at the bottom of the chair. I thought of that so sound would come out of certain speakers depending what is happening. For example your playing an FPS the guy just misses you by the head so the sound of the bullet was at the head speakers and if you were running around in the water the speakers at your hip make the water sound effects. Thats probably not the best way and could be a pain to program but I thought that this set up would ad depth to the sound as its coming from different places instead of 2 speakers at you head

This post has been edited by Yerdah: 09 January 2012 - 03:06 PM

[mjd420nova]

Adding effects other than what is provided for would require either more complex games with even more control functions to support them. Adapting outputs to other effects require drivers or converters. Placement of speakers can enhance effects as water by having tweeter elements near the hips. Placing the user in an relaxed position will reap added benefits to both the user and the fixer. When the user can't put extreme pressure on a joystick or pedal, the less likely it is to get broken. Many simple switch pads or sensors are prone to jamming action where a simple motion gets the same result but the switch fails in short order. Microswitches, a little solder and super glue can go a long way into restoring operation or even retro-fit.

[coastie65]

I just use a nice high backed leather Executive Chair for playing at the computer.

[Yerdah]

I have noticed that there are chairs with numerous speakers in a similar style as I have but I have yet to find out if any of them would act as the sound system as I have in mind and will continue to try and find out if it has been done before.

For the comfort and reliability issues and what mjd420nova said about having the user in a relaxed position would help solve those issues I have thought of having the chair that reclines and foot pedals pop out acting as footrests but having the user in a relaxed position to begin with is something I am considering.

As SikFly said about hydraulics I have considered in them, pneumatics (air muscles) and electromagnets for movement and physical feedback. I don't think electromagnets would be feasible due to cost and possible damage to other electrical equipment. The hydraulics idea would be great to incorporate as the chair could tilt back if the plane was going up or you were acceleration in a car and tilt forward when the plane is going down or you crash a car like a simulator but as you said could be pricey but I could use something smaller scale or something different that might achieve the same results.

I am yet to consider whether it will be a portable or one of those permanently set up chairs but no matter what I decide I will make the design as lightweight as possible. For it to be portable I have thought of making a modular design so it can be split up into sections for storage or transportation.

I am looking into other ways of physical feedback such as wind with air vents aimed at the users neck that blows air in certain circumstances such as a monster or zombie behind the user to give off the impression that its breathing down your neck. I am looking other senses and other ways of physical feedback. I have thought of having straps like shoulder seatbelts that have speakers or something that will vibrate so if you got shot in the chest or crashed the car they would vibrate allowing the user to "feel" impact.

For the binaural sound I am planning in using either Left4Dead or Amnesia and build a custom map with the noises added and see if they make any effect. If it was just not worth it and too much hassle I would put it in my report it was something to consider. I have found some psychophysics online toolbox and I will look into them and see if they are of any use.

One thing the chair that must have is a cup holder according to a friend in my course and is duly noted lol

[coastie65]

Now that is realy getting into the game. With your analogy to the Flight simulater stuff with the plane motion, that would really put the Simulation into the thing for sure.

[Yerdah]

Yeah I'm trying to come up with stuff that I haven't seen done before or trying to improve what has been done in regards to gaming chairs. I know some of the ideas I have will be difficult or even unrealistic to do given my restrictions (time, money, assistance etc.) but I was told in my 1st meeting with my advisor that if I tried to play it safe by making a simple gaming chair with just good audio I will get a poor grade. If I go all out try to develop something ambitious I will credited for it having it work or not won't determine my grade its down to pushing the boundaries. By showing good product design processes,explaining what went wrong, why it went wrong, providing recommendations on what I should do in the future to prevent the same issues from happening again goes towards my grade.

Of course I want the thing to work and do extremely well as not only it will be a good talking point for interviews but I could show to companies that might offer me a job.

[coastie65]

Yerdah, on 16 January 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Yeah I'm trying to come up with stuff that I haven't seen done before or trying to improve what has been done in regards to gaming chairs. I know some of the ideas I have will be difficult or even unrealistic to do given my restrictions (time, money, assistance etc.) but I was told in my 1st meeting with my advisor that if I tried to play it safe by making a simple gaming chair with just good audio I will get a poor grade. If I go all out try to develop something ambitious I will credited for it having it work or not won't determine my grade its down to pushing the boundaries. By showing good product design processes,explaining what went wrong, why it went wrong, providing recommendations on what I should do in the future to prevent the same issues from happening again goes towards my grade.

Of course I want the thing to work and do extremely well as not only it will be a good talking point for interviews but I could show to companies that might offer me a job.

Using the Flight Simulator analogy, try to get the hydraulics along with the many servos and stuff it would probably require would be a job in itself. The when you factor in trying to get the motion(s) synched with the game, that is a whole other thing. Same could be done with race games as well, in theory at least ( NASCAR Simulator ? )

[Yerdah]

coastie65, on 17 January 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Yerdah, on 16 January 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Yeah I'm trying to come up with stuff that I haven't seen done before or trying to improve what has been done in regards to gaming chairs. I know some of the ideas I have will be difficult or even unrealistic to do given my restrictions (time, money, assistance etc.) but I was told in my 1st meeting with my advisor that if I tried to play it safe by making a simple gaming chair with just good audio I will get a poor grade. If I go all out try to develop something ambitious I will credited for it having it work or not won't determine my grade its down to pushing the boundaries. By showing good product design processes,explaining what went wrong, why it went wrong, providing recommendations on what I should do in the future to prevent the same issues from happening again goes towards my grade.

Of course I want the thing to work and do extremely well as not only it will be a good talking point for interviews but I could show to companies that might offer me a job.

Using the Flight Simulator analogy, try to get the hydraulics along with the many servos and stuff it would probably require would be a job in itself. The when you factor in trying to get the motion(s) synched with the game, that is a whole other thing. Same could be done with race games as well, in theory at least ( NASCAR Simulator ? )

I have been considering in a flight sim based chair as I have noticed a lot of chairs specialised in some genre like racing so I should pick what the chair should be based on so that it would be great for maybe 1 or 2 genres.There are 3 genres I have considered. FPS, Flight Sim and Horror. I have done a bit of research and asked some game shops about the trends they are spotting and they have told me that there is a major increase in FPS and RPG games but its mainly towards a first person perspective also they are trying to make the gamer part of the game. I have seen some insane gaming chairs and some are pretty badass.

By next week I will have got a product specification started and will add it as the project progresses. I've seen chairs with hydraulics and how they react to the games I have seen this one Incredible Video Game Chair

I am considering incorporating other technology but voice recognition won't be in it since they don't work with Scottish accents lol


Do you not think Pneumatics would be better to use than hydraulics?

[coastie65]

To answer your last question, probably. As far as say a NASCAR simulation, about all that is needed is to simulate the look and fell of being on the high banked tracks. The look is done in the game graphics, but then you would have to simulate the tilt of the chair in synch with the game. Even more problematic with a flight simulator due to all the possibilities of flight. Heck of a project.

[Yerdah]

coastie65, on 17 January 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

To answer your last question, probably. As far as say a NASCAR simulation, about all that is needed is to simulate the look and fell of being on the high banked tracks. The look is done in the game graphics, but then you would have to simulate the tilt of the chair in synch with the game. Even more problematic with a flight simulator due to all the possibilities of flight. Heck of a project.

Yep it is a big project but I had a list of projects to chose from. The hardest and most "unreasonable" one that I found in the list was this circuit thing I can't honestly remember what it was supposed to do but the requirements were you had a budget of £40, your not allowed to build the circuit that infringes any patents, and it must work.

But I thinks its better to do something you have an interest in. I got a meeting with my advisor this Wednesday so I will find out how much funding I'm getting. I could also try and obtain sponsorship from other companies.

I do need to get questionnaires made for market research so that I can find out exactly what people would expect or want and possibly have people weigh their preferences. I would also know what type of game it needs to be aimed at. A flight sim or driving simulator does sound like a great idea. I just remembered that a college I used to go to for my undergrad had a driving simulator I could go and ask them about trying it out.

[Yerdah]

I have now got an online survey up and running if you can take time on filling it out it would be great thanks

http://kwiksurveys.c...=LKLEHL_62262f4