[snow]

Hello,

I am thinking about getting a new laptop in a few years, but want to check on something. We have had new processors come out over the last couple of years. However, the actual clock speed has changed little since then. It is still difficult to get to 3Ghz. Desktops, however, are past 4Ghz, even with the same processors. Desktop speeds have dramatically improved over the last couple of years, whereas laptop speeds have not.

So, my question is this: will laptop CPUs ever reach 4Ghz or beyond? How long do you think it would take them to advance to where desktop CPU speeds are today? How about the ones that will be based on Intel's new Ivy chipset coming out soon? I've been eagerly awaiting that.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you very much.

[waldojim]

The majority of your desktop 4Ghz chips are overclocked to that point. Those chips are also consuming about 130 watts or more. As such, they need cooling capable of dealing with 130 watts. In a desktop, there is plenty of room for these coolers, in laptops - not so much. In fact, the average laptop CPU has a 25watt TDP.

Higher frequencies drive up power, and laptops have very limited amounts of it. So no, you very likely will not see 4Ghz laptops for quite some time. What you will see, are more efficient processors that can do more work with less effort. Sandy Bridge is a great example of that. The little 2.7Ghz dual core in my laptop pretty well smokes all of my 3.6Ghz AMD quad cores in every day tasks. Of course it doesn't hurt that Turbo Boost drives the clocks up to about 3.4Ghz most of the time.

Lastly, why do you feel the need for such high frequencies? There are very few scenarios where those frequencies will make that much difference, especially over a lower clocked chip with more cores.

[crazy4laptops]

snow, on 13 January 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Hello,

I am thinking about getting a new laptop in a few years, but want to check on something. We have had new processors come out over the last couple of years. However, the actual clock speed has changed little since then. It is still difficult to get to 3Ghz. Desktops, however, are past 4Ghz, even with the same processors. Desktop speeds have dramatically improved over the last couple of years, whereas laptop speeds have not.

So, my question is this: will laptop CPUs ever reach 4Ghz or beyond? How long do you think it would take them to advance to where desktop CPU speeds are today? How about the ones that will be based on Intel's new Ivy chipset coming out soon? I've been eagerly awaiting that.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you very much.

Hi Snow! A processor unto itself isn't what makes a computer fast. It's the amount of memory installed and the speed of the hard drive. My Macbook Pro runs at 2.2ghz (Intel i7 Sandy Bridge) but it will turbo-boost to 3.1ghz (approx) If it went up to 4ghz my pictures wouldn't render that much faster... I need more memory and graphics cards than I do raw CPU speed. Laptops may not see 4ghz for a long while, batteries and silicon technology are always in a balance... long battery life with reasonable processor or short battery life with powerful processor.

[LiveBrianD]

crazy4laptops, on 15 January 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

snow, on 13 January 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Hello,

I am thinking about getting a new laptop in a few years, but want to check on something. We have had new processors come out over the last couple of years. However, the actual clock speed has changed little since then. It is still difficult to get to 3Ghz. Desktops, however, are past 4Ghz, even with the same processors. Desktop speeds have dramatically improved over the last couple of years, whereas laptop speeds have not.

So, my question is this: will laptop CPUs ever reach 4Ghz or beyond? How long do you think it would take them to advance to where desktop CPU speeds are today? How about the ones that will be based on Intel's new Ivy chipset coming out soon? I've been eagerly awaiting that.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you very much.

Hi Snow! A processor unto itself isn't what makes a computer fast. It's the amount of memory installed and the speed of the hard drive. My Macbook Pro runs at 2.2ghz (Intel i7 Sandy Bridge) but it will turbo-boost to 3.1ghz (approx) If it went up to 4ghz my pictures wouldn't render that much faster... I need more memory and graphics cards than I do raw CPU speed. Laptops may not see 4ghz for a long while, batteries and silicon technology are always in a balance... long battery life with reasonable processor or short battery life with powerful processor.

Right now, I don't think CPUs are really bottlenecking most things. Granted, right now I'm ripping a dvd and that's putting my quad-core i5 under full load (looks like it'll take about 16 minutes or so, and this is a 90 minute movie), but normally, the CPU isn't doing too much. (for some reason, although I thought dvdfab had cuda acceleration, msi afterburner says my GPU is idle)

[snow]

Thank you all for your responses.

I do realize that there are many factors affecting laptop performance. But, believe me, there are a few applications I have where raw CPU speed is needed, even with quad-core processors. I am trying to get some foresight on when I will be able to get a more powerful laptop that can meet my needs.

What about Intel's Ivy chipset coming out this year? Will laptops with that be more powerful since they are more efficient? Will they be able to do more for less?

Thanks again for your help with this.

This post has been edited by snow: 16 January 2012 - 09:42 AM

[LiveBrianD]

Ivy Bridge is supposed to be more efficient and a bit more powerful (10% or so) than Sandy Bridge.

[waldojim]

snow, on 16 January 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

Thank you all for your responses.

I do realize that there are many factors affecting laptop performance. But, believe me, there are a few applications I have where raw CPU speed is needed, even with quad-core processors. I am trying to get some foresight on when I will be able to get a more powerful laptop that can meet my needs.

What about Intel's Ivy chipset coming out this year? Will laptops with that be more powerful since they are more efficient? Will they be able to do more for less?

Thanks again for your help with this.

If you shop very specific boutique vendors, you can get desktop CPU's in your laptop. Don't expect those things to be anything more than lug-able machines with 30 minutes of battery life, but they do exist. Most laptops though have to maintain a balance between speed and efficiency. As I mentioned above, current 3Ghz chips are typically consuming 65watts give or take. AMD has a line of Phenoms that got down to 35 watts, but they are actually slower than Intel i7m chips (by a long shot). A current generation processor will top out at 130 watts or more going for 4 Ghz.

Now, asside from power itself, understand this: Intel has already admitted it doesn't WANT to sell 4Ghz chips. WHY? Because according to Intel, those frequencies are unstable. I am actually inclined to agree. Yes, I am running a 4Ghz+ CPU in my desktop, but more than anything, it is just because I can.

I don't know how much of a background you have in high frequency clocks, radio, etc. But to maintain a stable clock in the 4,000,000,000 cycle rate you need a STABLE source. The generic crystal oscillator is NOT that stable. That is why Intel was using inherently stable frequencies for so long as their base clock frequency. For those that don't remember, this is why Intel never sold a Pentium, or Pentium II machine running a 100Mhz FSB. AMD was willing, but Intel's response was that 33.3Mhz was inherently stable, and they weren't willing to sacrifice stability. Even now, your i7 is running a 133Mhz BCLCK - a 4x multiplier from 33.3Mhz. All of your timing is derived from this point.

Now, the higher you drive up your clock speeds from here, the more instability your CPU will have to account for. Already, I can tell you that there is more impact than you can understand. Pulling a DMESG report from Linux, you can watch as Linux notices, and corrects system timers repeatedly for unstable clocks. Note - I was watching using Gentoo - as most distros filter timing corrections.

The point is, that Intel has made a point of bringing up their performance while driving down the clock speeds. The only reason we see Intel shipping high clock CPUs right now, is they are trying to squeeze everything they can out of their current core design before moving on to the next design - which should be more efficient, executing more instructions with every clock cycle. Ivy bridge will have marginal improvements there, but nothing like the move from the P4 to Core.

I am not certain why you would feel the need for stupidly high clock speeds in a laptop, but I can assure you, that a machine like that will cook your flesh, and cost a bundle.

My suggestion, buy a laptop that will do well enough for the majority of your mobile needs, and get a desktop with the added power you need for serious work.

[snow]

waldojim,

Thank you very much for that extremely detailed explanation. You obviously are very knowledgeable in this subject.

For the stability issue, will new chipsets out in the future have designs that allow for increased levels of stability, thus allowing higher clock speeds? You mentioned that the i7 is running a 133Mhz FSB, which is 4x what a Pentium II ran. Therefore, is it possible for future designs to run at higher frequencies as well?

Will the Ivy chipset processors still come out in 2.6-2.8 Ghz speeds like the i7 processors have right now? If they do, will they have lower energy consumption? What do you think the wattage of these new processors will be?

I don't really understand much of this, so maybe I am asking invalid questions. Sorry if I'm looking at this the wrong way.

Thanks again.

[waldojim]

snow, on 17 January 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

waldojim,

Thank you very much for that extremely detailed explanation. You obviously are very knowledgeable in this subject.

For the stability issue, will new chipsets out in the future have designs that allow for increased levels of stability, thus allowing higher clock speeds? You mentioned that the i7 is running a 133Mhz FSB, which is 4x what a Pentium II ran. Therefore, is it possible for future designs to run at higher frequencies as well?

They would need to find a way to design a new clock source of higher stability. Last I heard, this hasn't been accomplished. I have seen very high stability clocks, but they are not something you would see in a PC.

The 133Mhz is not 4x that of the P2 - it is actually identical. 133Mhz is 4x the base clock of the crystal oscilator used for timing. Obviously with architectural differences, the new chips are considerably faster.

Quote

Will the Ivy chipset processors still come out in 2.6-2.8 Ghz speeds like the i7 processors have right now? If they do, will they have lower energy consumption? What do you think the wattage of these new processors will be?

I don't really understand much of this, so maybe I am asking invalid questions. Sorry if I'm looking at this the wrong way.

Thanks again.

Will they lower power consumption in the future? Sure. If nothing else, new fabrication methods with reduced core size will cut back power draw. Intel has also been working on enhancing their power gating methods, allowing nearly an entire CPU to be turned completely off at any point in time.
As for Ivy Bridge, they should be in the 2.8 Ghz range for mobile products.

[orlbuckeye]

The emphasis in laptops and devices is mobility and not so much increasing clock speed of processors. They are developing newer technologies to make processingmore efficient without increasing the clock speed radically. Intel is working of integrating wireless technology and making the current integrated graphics better on their next generation processor. They are trying to improve the mobility and give longer battery life.

This wireless integrated technology will should be out in 2014 or 2015.

[orlbuckeye]

snow, on 13 January 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Hello,

I am thinking about getting a new laptop in a few years, but want to check on something. We have had new processors come out over the last couple of years. However, the actual clock speed has changed little since then. It is still difficult to get to 3Ghz. Desktops, however, are past 4Ghz, even with the same processors. Desktop speeds have dramatically improved over the last couple of years, whereas laptop speeds have not.

So, my question is this: will laptop CPUs ever reach 4Ghz or beyond? How long do you think it would take them to advance to where desktop CPU speeds are today? How about the ones that will be based on Intel's new Ivy chipset coming out soon? I've been eagerly awaiting that.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you very much.

They are concentrated on making the clock speeds faster on the processor. They are putting more transistors on a smaller processor, making bus speed faster and adding more cache. The main goal for laptops is mobility and they are concentrating extending battery life and running at cooler temperatures. Were moving from storage with movable parts to no movable parts (HD's to SSD). USB 3.0 may go away before it ever becomes a standard and laptops are getting smaller.

This post has been edited by coastie65: 28 March 2012 - 12:59 PM

[coastie65]

To add a bit to what olbuckeye has said in regard to Processor speed. Temps are an issue with the faster speeds and why they are not as fast as the Desktop processors. With the advent of the Sandy Bridge i3, i5 , and i7 in the laptops and turbo boost, you can see speeds up to 2.8 Ghz when needed, but not all the time. I just bought a laptop in Dec, with a core i3 and that thing is pretty darned fast. I am perfectly happy with the performance of that thing.

[orlbuckeye]

orlbuckeye, on 28 March 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

snow, on 13 January 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Hello,

I am thinking about getting a new laptop in a few years, but want to check on something. We have had new processors come out over the last couple of years. However, the actual clock speed has changed little since then. It is still difficult to get to 3Ghz. Desktops, however, are past 4Ghz, even with the same processors. Desktop speeds have dramatically improved over the last couple of years, whereas laptop speeds have not.

So, my question is this: will laptop CPUs ever reach 4Ghz or beyond? How long do you think it would take them to advance to where desktop CPU speeds are today? How about the ones that will be based on Intel's new Ivy chipset coming out soon? I've been eagerly awaiting that.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you very much.

Also we've move to more cores and trends. Some of the i7 processors are 4 cores and 8 threads. To compare a real world example is when you highways are changed from 2 lanes to 4 lanes and the speed limit is still 65 MPH. Under normal conditions you proable get to your destination faster. the reality of it is you can process larger amount of data without increasing the clock speed.

They are concentrated on making the clock speeds faster on the processor. They are putting more transistors on a smaller processor, making bus speed faster and adding more cache. The main goal for laptops is mobility and they are concentrating extending battery life and running at cooler temperatures. Were moving from storage with movable parts to no movable parts (HD's to SSD). USB 3.0 may go away before it ever becomes a standard and laptops are getting smaller.