[nonseq]

KLanD, on 20 March 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Vulpinemac, on 20 March 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

KLanD, on 20 March 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

Vulpinemac, on 20 March 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

Speaking from a platform comparison, there are no Android tablets even affecting Apple's iPad sales and while Android phones currently have the lead in activations, their overall sales numbers over the holiday quarter were lower than Apple's iPhone sales over the same time. What I have heard about is that in at least some cases when an Android phone has to be reset, it also has to be re-activated which can and probably does inflate those activation numbers. If comparisons are going to be made, make them like-to-like; tablet to tablet, phone to phone, sales for sales. Anything else is just distorting the facts.

I agree, Android tablets aren't affecting iPad sales all that much. Then again, a big chunk of new iPad sales come from old iPad buyers. (same goes for the iPhone). As for having better sales during the holiday quarter... well you want to talk about number distortion.. Your comparing the one quarter there is a new iphone (and generally the most buying of), so of course they are going to sell more that month. You didn't mention that Samsung was only (what was it..) 1Million behind them? That's not really all that much.

If you want to compare like to like, that's gonna be hard, since the two platforms are very different and, as I said before, there is are a lot more options to choose from on the android side, which IMO gives people more opportunity to find a device that suits all of their needs.

Are you telling me, then, that Samsung sold 34 million Android phones and all other brands combined sold 1 million? Or are you trying to tell me that Samsung sold some 16 million tablets yet Android still held only 25% of the apparent tablet market despite models like the Acer Transformer? Where are your numbers that support either of your arguments?

Here's what you're running into: Apple posts their sales numbers by model type every three months. They don't say, "We shipped X amount of Y,Z or AA devices." The other brands all claim they 'shipped' big numbers, but never post exactly how many were sold, despite obviously having the ability to do so (or are you saying that only Apple can calculate these numbers?)

Based on numbers that are available to anyone who bothers to read the many reports out there, just as netbook numbers started to slide when the iPad came out, Android sales themselves are starting to slide as the hardware begins to prove incapable of handling the OS on many of those devices while Apple's devices keep going. I forecast back in '09 that once people's Android devices start coming up for renewal/replacement that dissatisfaction with the hardware would begin to slow sales. This last holiday quarter seems to have confirmed that projection and only continued monitoring of sales will prove me right or wrong.

Platform for platform, they aren't all that different. Android phones do essentially the same things the iOS phones do and Android tablets do essentially the same things iOS tablets do. Of all the Android tablets on the market right now, the Kindle Fire seems to be the only successful product--and it's not even trying to compete with Apple.

Hey, I'm just repeating numbers I saw in articles here on PCWorld.

So if I send out 1000000 resumes for the position of CEO of Chase that means I'll get the job and I can cite it on my resume? How many Edsels did ford ship and how many did they sell?

[KLanD]

nonseq, on 20 March 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

KLanD, on 20 March 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Vulpinemac, on 20 March 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

KLanD, on 20 March 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

Vulpinemac, on 20 March 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

Speaking from a platform comparison, there are no Android tablets even affecting Apple's iPad sales and while Android phones currently have the lead in activations, their overall sales numbers over the holiday quarter were lower than Apple's iPhone sales over the same time. What I have heard about is that in at least some cases when an Android phone has to be reset, it also has to be re-activated which can and probably does inflate those activation numbers. If comparisons are going to be made, make them like-to-like; tablet to tablet, phone to phone, sales for sales. Anything else is just distorting the facts.

I agree, Android tablets aren't affecting iPad sales all that much. Then again, a big chunk of new iPad sales come from old iPad buyers. (same goes for the iPhone). As for having better sales during the holiday quarter... well you want to talk about number distortion.. Your comparing the one quarter there is a new iphone (and generally the most buying of), so of course they are going to sell more that month. You didn't mention that Samsung was only (what was it..) 1Million behind them? That's not really all that much.

If you want to compare like to like, that's gonna be hard, since the two platforms are very different and, as I said before, there is are a lot more options to choose from on the android side, which IMO gives people more opportunity to find a device that suits all of their needs.

Are you telling me, then, that Samsung sold 34 million Android phones and all other brands combined sold 1 million? Or are you trying to tell me that Samsung sold some 16 million tablets yet Android still held only 25% of the apparent tablet market despite models like the Acer Transformer? Where are your numbers that support either of your arguments?

Here's what you're running into: Apple posts their sales numbers by model type every three months. They don't say, "We shipped X amount of Y,Z or AA devices." The other brands all claim they 'shipped' big numbers, but never post exactly how many were sold, despite obviously having the ability to do so (or are you saying that only Apple can calculate these numbers?)

Based on numbers that are available to anyone who bothers to read the many reports out there, just as netbook numbers started to slide when the iPad came out, Android sales themselves are starting to slide as the hardware begins to prove incapable of handling the OS on many of those devices while Apple's devices keep going. I forecast back in '09 that once people's Android devices start coming up for renewal/replacement that dissatisfaction with the hardware would begin to slow sales. This last holiday quarter seems to have confirmed that projection and only continued monitoring of sales will prove me right or wrong.

Platform for platform, they aren't all that different. Android phones do essentially the same things the iOS phones do and Android tablets do essentially the same things iOS tablets do. Of all the Android tablets on the market right now, the Kindle Fire seems to be the only successful product--and it's not even trying to compete with Apple.

Hey, I'm just repeating numbers I saw in articles here on PCWorld.

So if I send out 1000000 resumes for the position of CEO of Chase that means I'll get the job and I can cite it on my resume? How many Edsels did ford ship and how many did they sell?

If I remember correctly, the number was for activations, not sales or shipments.

[veggiedude]

RMAM2011, on 19 March 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

Bogus comparison.

At the risk of sounding impolite, I will say that it seems that the author of this article is on Apple's payroll.

At the risk of sounding impolite,, until you've done these tests to prove otherwise, you are an A-hole.

[veggiedude]

linuxrants7xpg, on 16 March 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Apple's playing their "up to" game again... Since Apple's claim includes the "up to" in it, we can assume that that's the maximum time they were able to accomplish. Other manufacturers are more forthcoming with their specs. The Razr Maxx was able to pull of 8 hours and 25 minutes of continuous LTE use, or just 35 minutes less than the iPad. Given Apple's "up to" claims, I'd wager that the Razr Maxx's battery compares favorably to the iPad for usage.

That would be a very bad assumption based on history. When the original iPad came out, Apple said it had "up to 10 hours battery life". No one really believed Apple, so the reviewers were shocked when they got up to 11 and 12 hours of battery life.

[TaliesinJames]

This is bullshit, the ipad is a toy, the transformer is a computer, it's not just for playing angry birds on a large screen or reading books on an ipad because you can.

[crosswordbob]

TaliesinJames, on 21 March 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

This is bullshit, the ipad is a toy, the transformer is a computer, it's not just for playing angry birds on a large screen or reading books on an ipad because you can.

Uh-oh—I manage quite a lot of productive work on my iPad. Am I using it wrong?

[nonseq]

TaliesinJames, on 21 March 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

This is bullshit, the ipad is a toy, the transformer is a computer, it's not just for playing angry birds on a large screen or reading books on an ipad because you can.

EDITED BY NONSEQ

My apologies to the forums for content of this post prior to this edit. I used a word taken directly from "The Song of Taliesin" where the Welsh Bard Taliesin ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliesin ) was able to confound his adversaries by repeating the word "blerm" three times. (Yeah, I know it's way too obscure)

I later found that the same word has other negative connotations in modern use. Again I apologize. No offense was intended.

This post has been edited by nonseq: 21 March 2012 - 03:26 PM

[nonseq]

KLanD, on 21 March 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

If I remember correctly, the number was for activations, not sales or shipments.

Respectfully, the link that you provided earlier ( http://www.technobuf...-2015-idc-says/ ) was for shipments and did not reference activations.

Nuke61's link ( http://androinica.co...have-been-sold/ ) yields a very telling comment from a Samsung executive...

“Honestly, we’re not doing very well in the tablet market,” Hankil Yoon, a Samsung executive, told a group of reporters. Yoon went on to say that the company is optimistic that the Galaxy Note 10.1 will be a big success, but at the moment, the company is not in a good position"

In a briefing with reporters at Mobile World Congress, Google VP of Mobile Andy Rubin said that 12 million Android tablets (excluding the Kindle Fire and Nook Tablet) have been sold. Motorola previously disclosed that it managed only to sell about 1 million Xoom’s, leaving Acer, Asus, LG, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, and a handful of other Google-recognized tablets to split 11 million sales between each other. That’s simply not good enough if Google hopes to see similar tablet growth as it has enjoyed in smartphones. ( http://androinica.co...have-been-sold/ )

From the same article, author Andrew Kameka observed...

"A lack of solid apps has been the biggest problem with Android tablets. One year into the Honeycomb experiment and Android still doesn’t have a healthy number of apps and games to play. There are some, but not enough to warrant choosing Android over an iPad unless you are an Android die-hard. And yes, it’s great to see some quality examples of tablet modes, but someone interested in music, reading, or gaming doesn’t have nearly as many options as they would on an iPad.

Device fatigue has been another hindrance, especially in Samsung’s case. Not counting the variations created to deal with Apple lawsuits, I can name nine different tablets announced in the past 12 months. Choice is good, but not when users are asked to purchase a device that’s going to be rendered obsolete in 3 months and not guaranteed to be supported since its creator has so many divided loyalties. Yoon showed the flaw in Samsung’s thinking when he said, “The best thing to survive in the market is to kill your products. We want to stay competitive in the market.”

This post has been edited by nonseq: 21 March 2012 - 03:47 PM

[SkywayTraveler]

RMAM2011, on 19 March 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

Bogus comparison.

At the risk of sounding impolite, I will say that it seems that the author of this article is on Apple's payroll.

[KLanD]

nonseq, on 21 March 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

KLanD, on 21 March 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

If I remember correctly, the number was for activations, not sales or shipments.

Respectfully, the link that you provided earlier ( http://www.technobuf...-2015-idc-says/ ) was for shipments and did not reference activations.

Nuke61's link ( http://androinica.co...have-been-sold/ ) yields a very telling comment from a Samsung executive...

“Honestly, we’re not doing very well in the tablet market,” Hankil Yoon, a Samsung executive, told a group of reporters. Yoon went on to say that the company is optimistic that the Galaxy Note 10.1 will be a big success, but at the moment, the company is not in a good position"

In a briefing with reporters at Mobile World Congress, Google VP of Mobile Andy Rubin said that 12 million Android tablets (excluding the Kindle Fire and Nook Tablet) have been sold. Motorola previously disclosed that it managed only to sell about 1 million Xoom’s, leaving Acer, Asus, LG, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, and a handful of other Google-recognized tablets to split 11 million sales between each other. That’s simply not good enough if Google hopes to see similar tablet growth as it has enjoyed in smartphones. ( http://androinica.co...have-been-sold/ )

From the same article, author Andrew Kameka observed...

"A lack of solid apps has been the biggest problem with Android tablets. One year into the Honeycomb experiment and Android still doesn’t have a healthy number of apps and games to play. There are some, but not enough to warrant choosing Android over an iPad unless you are an Android die-hard. And yes, it’s great to see some quality examples of tablet modes, but someone interested in music, reading, or gaming doesn’t have nearly as many options as they would on an iPad.

Device fatigue has been another hindrance, especially in Samsung’s case. Not counting the variations created to deal with Apple lawsuits, I can name nine different tablets announced in the past 12 months. Choice is good, but not when users are asked to purchase a device that’s going to be rendered obsolete in 3 months and not guaranteed to be supported since its creator has so many divided loyalties. Yoon showed the flaw in Samsung’s thinking when he said, “The best thing to survive in the market is to kill your products. We want to stay competitive in the market.”

Respectfully, I wasn't referring to those links.

[JoshuaAllen]

RMAM2011, on 19 March 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

Bogus comparison.

At the risk of sounding impolite, I will say that it seems that the author of this article is on Apple's payroll.

Actually this is one of the most fair-minded comparisons I've seen from the media. If you want to see someone on Apple's payroll (or at the very least are taking kickbacks from Apple execs and Steve Jobs' pension) then look at TIME magazine and CNN and how their tech pages are spammed with lauds for Apple and overly-critical of pretty much everyone else. If Apple sneezes, then they cover it while leaving everything else in the dust.

[WaltCorey]

XeridianDarkmoon, on 16 March 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

What's funny is, the one test that really matters the Androids win at. Most people use their Tablets to browse the web more than anything.
I also know most don't want to be tied to AT&T and their crappy service.

Yep, I agree. Very reminiscent of the old iPhone vs. HTC YouTube cartoon. "I want the bigger G B's"
I think it's way more than "don't want to be tied to AT&T...".
I don't believe most have a clue what they want, that is, beyond the latest new bright shiny toy.

Chips, speed, CPU, GPU, memory, doesn't matter. Is it at least as shiny as what their neighbor's got, that is what's important.
Games? Really? $900 to play CrazyBirds. Shzzzzz

[m0nkeysensei]

This is a horribly biased review. Saying a 5fps difference is 'leaving the competition in the dust' shows just how poorly pcworld does quality control.

[Nuke61]

m0nkeysensei, on 15 April 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

This is a horribly biased review. Saying a 5 fps difference is 'leaving the competition in the dust' shows just how poorly pcworld does quality control.

Actually, it shows that you didn't understand the graphs that applied to what you were reading. The first part of "The Gaming Connection" section was where they wrote On two of four key tests in GLBenchmark, the new iPad virtually tied the iPad 2's performance. and it referred to these two graphs:
http://zapp5.staticw...sr-11335969.png
http://zapp5.staticw...or-11335984.png

But the part you're talking about, where it says, "But on two other tests, the new iPad was the clear winner, leaving the iPad 2 and the three Android tablets in the dust." it refers to these two tests:
http://zapp5.staticw...sr-11335970.png
http://zapp5.staticw...or-11335968.png

First two tests... the new iPad is the fastest, but not by a whole lot. The last two tests... a much bigger gap, arguably "left in the dust"

[42n81]

nonseq, on 21 March 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

TaliesinJames, on 21 March 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

This is bullshit, the ipad is a toy, the transformer is a computer, it's not just for playing angry birds on a large screen or reading books on an ipad because you can.

EDITED BY NONSEQ

My apologies to the forums for content of this post prior to this edit. I used a word taken directly from "The Song of Taliesin" where the Welsh Bard Taliesin ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliesin ) was able to confound his adversaries by repeating the word "blerm" three times. (Yeah, I know it's way too obscure)

I later found that the same word has other negative connotations in modern use. Again I apologize. No offense was intended.

Hardly a day goes by on these forums when I don't learn something interesting about the human condition. My esteem for the human race has been reduced yet again.

Unfortunate as it is, our language is being turned into a minefield by people needing to create euphemisms for the many methods we use to disrespect and degrade each other.

You're not the one who should be apologizing.

[kennyrosenyc]

All this says to me is 'Wait for a Windows Tablet!'. I know I'll be far happier being able to connect to a full blown computer and run real software rather than 'apps' any day and the Windows software catalog dwarfs Google's, Apple's, and RIM's 'app' stores combined.

[AlexKorshunov]

RMAM2011, on 19 March 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

Bogus comparison.

At the risk of sounding impolite, I will say that it seems that the author of this article is on Apple's payroll.

+1 exactly what I wanted to say. New iPad have a many issue and if author had seen the statistic of sales (much less than they expected), he would knowed that Apple have a big problem with their new product.

[crosswordbob]

AlexKorshunov, on 20 April 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

RMAM2011, on 19 March 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

Bogus comparison.

At the risk of sounding impolite, I will say that it seems that the author of this article is on Apple's payroll.

+1 exactly what I wanted to say. New iPad have a many issue and if author had seen the statistic of sales (much less than they expected), he would knowed that Apple have a big problem with their new product.

Citation needed.

This post has been edited by crosswordbob: 20 April 2012 - 03:31 AM

[42n81]

AlexKorshunov, on 20 April 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

RMAM2011, on 19 March 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

Bogus comparison.

At the risk of sounding impolite, I will say that it seems that the author of this article is on Apple's payroll.

+1 exactly what I wanted to say. New iPad have a many issue and if author had seen the statistic of sales (much less than they expected), he would knowed that Apple have a big problem with their new product.

We'll find out soon.

Stay tuned - link to the audio webcast below:

• Q2 FY12 Earnings Release Apple plans to conduct a conference call to discuss financial results of its second fiscal quarter on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 at 2:00 p.m. PT

This post has been edited by 42n81: 20 April 2012 - 06:47 PM

[pogopower]

Well ipad 2 is still pretty good , looking at the nummbers. Also at 400 bucks it is a real bargain. If you are not in the marked for super high res screens because of work or image edited i say get ipad2.