[Dellinsp531]

waldojim, on 31 March 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Please, pretty please, take a basic electronics course. Or better yet, find a book on power supply design.
Power supplies are rated on output power. There is ALWAYS loss in the process converting from 110 (or 220) to 12V. As such, the INPUT stages are over-engineered to make up for this loss. For example, MY 750 watt PC Power and Cooling has input stages designed for up to 1100 watts to be pulled from the wall. When fully loaded, that PC Power and Cooling is actually KNOWN to pull up to 950 watts from the wall.

I work in IT and have taken advance courses in electronics course. Your taking about AC coming into the PSU and DC coming out from the PSU. In all my IT and electronics courses, it mentioned that AC wattsis pulled from the wall and converted to DC watts in the PC. During the transformation form AC to DC there is lost of watts in heat since current and resistance at the PSU (ie I(current)*R (Resistance)). This is why it can not be 375 watts like you said or the PSU would get destoryed. It is not rated for 375 watts AC. It is rated for 300 Watts AC. Plus you are confusing the poster since the poster now thinks that it is a 375W PSU.

HG, on 02 April 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

waldojim, on 30 March 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Dellinsp531, on 30 March 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

The worse things could be:

• Card works without any problems
• Card does not work and no harm to componets
• Card works but your componets get damage

Most power supplies do not give full 300 watts so like waldojim said. If you get 200 watts it might work, but 300 let say is running at 80%. 300 *80% is 240 watts. Since the computer is a few years old, than take off another 20%. 240 * 20% is 192 watts.

If you use the 5670 card and it works, do not run any major stress test on the computer.

I would go with Gefore 9500 or 9800 card. Those should work with your PSU without problems.

The power supply is rated based on what it can deliver, not what it draws from the wall. a 300 watt PSU @ 80% efficient draws about 375W from the wall. The 9800GT will draw considerably more power than the 5670, both at idle, and at load.

My PSU is 375W. Did the label it wrong with 300W?

No, the PSU is rate at 300W AC.

waldojim is confusing AC and DC power and got 375W of AC. All oneline source that I check say that the PSU in this model is 300W rating.

[LiveBrianD]

NO, NO, NO! A 300W power supply means that it puts out 300W DC and takes in MORE than 300W AC due to inefficiency, the difference of which is wasted as heat. What don't you get about that??? If the power supply is 80% efficient and is rated for 300W (the DC OUTPUT wattage), well, 300/.8=375W AC IN. Let me guess, you got an F in that course, right?

[waldojim]

Dellinsp531, on 02 April 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

waldojim, on 31 March 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

Please, pretty please, take a basic electronics course. Or better yet, find a book on power supply design.
Power supplies are rated on output power. There is ALWAYS loss in the process converting from 110 (or 220) to 12V. As such, the INPUT stages are over-engineered to make up for this loss. For example, MY 750 watt PC Power and Cooling has input stages designed for up to 1100 watts to be pulled from the wall. When fully loaded, that PC Power and Cooling is actually KNOWN to pull up to 950 watts from the wall.

I work in IT and have taken advance courses in electronics course. Your taking about AC coming into the PSU and DC coming out from the PSU. In all my IT and electronics courses, it mentioned that AC wattsis pulled from the wall and converted to DC watts in the PC. During the transformation form AC to DC there is lost of watts in heat since current and resistance at the PSU (ie I(current)*R (Resistance)). This is why it can not be 375 watts like you said or the PSU would get destoryed. It is not rated for 375 watts AC. It is rated for 300 Watts AC. Plus you are confusing the poster since the poster now thinks that it is a 375W PSU.

HG, on 02 April 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

waldojim, on 30 March 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Dellinsp531, on 30 March 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

The worse things could be:

• Card works without any problems
• Card does not work and no harm to componets
• Card works but your componets get damage

Most power supplies do not give full 300 watts so like waldojim said. If you get 200 watts it might work, but 300 let say is running at 80%. 300 *80% is 240 watts. Since the computer is a few years old, than take off another 20%. 240 * 20% is 192 watts.

If you use the 5670 card and it works, do not run any major stress test on the computer.

I would go with Gefore 9500 or 9800 card. Those should work with your PSU without problems.

The power supply is rated based on what it can deliver, not what it draws from the wall. a 300 watt PSU @ 80% efficient draws about 375W from the wall. The 9800GT will draw considerably more power than the 5670, both at idle, and at load.

My PSU is 375W. Did the label it wrong with 300W?

No, the PSU is rate at 300W AC.

waldojim is confusing AC and DC power and got 375W of AC. All oneline source that I check say that the PSU in this model is 300W rating.

NO, you MORON. QUIT GIVING BAD ADVICE ALREADY.

PC POWERSUPPLIES ARE RATED ON OUTPUT POWER.

[waldojim]

Dellinsp531, on 02 April 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

I work in IT and have taken advance courses in electronics course. Your taking about AC coming into the PSU and DC coming out from the PSU. In all my IT and electronics courses, it mentioned that AC wattsis pulled from the wall and converted to DC watts in the PC. During the transformation form AC to DC there is lost of watts in heat since current and resistance at the PSU (ie I(current)*R (Resistance)). This is why it can not be 375 watts like you said or the PSU would get destoryed. It is not rated for 375 watts AC. It is rated for 300 Watts AC. Plus you are confusing the poster since the poster now thinks that it is a 375W PSU.

Are you ready to feel like an idiot yet?
Since you won't do your own damned homework, I did it FOR YOU:
http://www.hardwares...-Supplies/181/8
That pretty link right there, will help you understand more about power supplies... though you act like you know it all already, you MIGHT want to take the time for a refresher, and pick up on key statements like:

Quote

Power supplies are labeled according to the maximum power they can deliver

LIKE OMG! What I have been saying has been confirmed through a trusted source! WHO COULD HAVE GUESSED? Oh wait... anyone with a brain.

Use common sense. Power supplies are rated based on output power for a reason - because it can be controlled. Input power, is MUCH harder to control. Steady, consistent output power is easy to regulate relatively speaking.

[Dellinsp531]

You left off the key part in your quote.

Quote

Power supplies are labeled according to the maximum power they can deliver – at least in theory (Add bold for the key part). The problem is that a lot of power supplies can’t deliver their labeled power, typically because the manufacturer:

* Labeled the power supply with peak wattage, which can only be achieved for a few seconds and, in some cases, in less than one second.
* Measured the power supply maximum wattage with an unrealistic room temperature, normally 25º C (77º F), while the temperature inside the PC will always be higher than that – at least 35º C (95º F). Semiconductors and inductors have a physical effect called de-rating where they lose their ability to deliver current (and thus power) with an increase in temperature (see Figure 28). So a maximum power measured at a lower temperature may not be achieved when temperature is increased.
* Simply lied. This is probably the case with “generic” units.

Your own source gives you away. Thanks for not quote the full statment.

@ LiveBrianD
I passed the course with A+.

This post has been edited by Dellinsp531: 03 April 2012 - 05:07 AM

[waldojim]

Dellinsp531, on 03 April 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

You left off the key part in your quote.

Quote

Power supplies are labeled according to the maximum power they can deliver – at least in theory (Add bold for the key part). The problem is that a lot of power supplies can’t deliver their labeled power, typically because the manufacturer:

* Labeled the power supply with peak wattage, which can only be achieved for a few seconds and, in some cases, in less than one second.
* Measured the power supply maximum wattage with an unrealistic room temperature, normally 25º C (77º F), while the temperature inside the PC will always be higher than that – at least 35º C (95º F). Semiconductors and inductors have a physical effect called de-rating where they lose their ability to deliver current (and thus power) with an increase in temperature (see Figure 28). So a maximum power measured at a lower temperature may not be achieved when temperature is increased.
* Simply lied. This is probably the case with “generic” units.

Your own source gives you away. Thanks for not quote the full statment.

@ LiveBrianD
I passed the course with A+.

Did you read what it said after that statement. CHEAP power supplies can't because they don't measure correctly or are LYING. NOT because they are taking the measurement as the input. TRY READING COMPREHENSION 101.

There is actually a reason I didn't go through the entire thing, because I know the weak minded would be too busy getting hung up on that part of the statement would reading the rest.

[LiveBrianD]

"Power supplies are labeled according to the maximum power they can deliver – at least in theory. The problem is that a lot of power supplies can’t deliver their labeled power, typically because the manufacturer:"
Where does it say they are rated on the input AC power? Where? They are indeed rated upon theoretical OUTPUT power. For instance, I can draw about 520W from my 520W seasonic power supply (which is a quality unit). When I do so, due to ineffiency, I'm drawing around 634W AC from the wall (it's 82% efficient at 100% load - 520/.82=~634). If you look up tests on a good psu, you'll see that the max you can draw from it is indeed what the power supply is labeled as. For instance, look at this: http://www.hardwares...ly-Review/954/7 Look at that, 100% load means 520W DC being drawn from a 520W unit. (though they were actually able to draw a tad more from it while keeping voltages within spec)

Sure, maybe you passed the class, but you certainly didn't learn anything. Hell, I haven't taken any classes on this and understand how this works better than you do. Please go away.

[HG]

Does this mean that I have a 375 W PSU like waldojim said in the post on previos page?

How can I measure how much my PSU is using?

I am getting more and more confused at this. I do not want to damage my computer. I only have a laptop and this desktop. So if desktop gets broken, I would have only the laptop left.

[coastie65]

HG, on 04 April 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

Does this mean that I have a 375 W PSU like waldojim said in the post on previos page?

How can I measure how much my PSU is using?

I am getting more and more confused at this. I do not want to damage my computer. I only have a laptop and this desktop. So if desktop gets broken, I would have only the laptop left.

Hi, simply put, even if you had a 750w PSU in there, you wouldn't damage your computer, just more PSU than you needed.

[waldojim]

HG, on 04 April 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

Does this mean that I have a 375 W PSU like waldojim said in the post on previos page?

How can I measure how much my PSU is using?

I am getting more and more confused at this. I do not want to damage my computer. I only have a laptop and this desktop. So if desktop gets broken, I would have only the laptop left.

The power supply is 300 watts. That is what it is rated to deliver to your components. What it draws from the wall should be around 375 watts (max) depending on how your power supply was designed, and how efficient it is.

[LiveBrianD]

HG, on 04 April 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

Does this mean that I have a 375 W PSU like waldojim said in the post on previos page?

How can I measure how much my PSU is using?

I am getting more and more confused at this. I do not want to damage my computer. I only have a laptop and this desktop. So if desktop gets broken, I would have only the laptop left.

Ignore that Dellinsp531 moron. As I said, a power supply like the Earthwatts 380W is a good reliable choice, and will support a dedicated GPU up to something like an nvidia 550ti or ati 6790 if you want (I'm being a little conservative with that, you might be able to go higher than that if you want).

[waldojim]

waldojim, on 04 April 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

HG, on 04 April 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

Does this mean that I have a 375 W PSU like waldojim said in the post on previos page?

How can I measure how much my PSU is using?

I am getting more and more confused at this. I do not want to damage my computer. I only have a laptop and this desktop. So if desktop gets broken, I would have only the laptop left.

The power supply is 300 watts. That is what it is rated to deliver to your components. What it draws from the wall should be around 375 watts (max) depending on how your power supply was designed, and how efficient it is.

For some reason, I thought you said yours was labeled as being a 300W PSU. I re-read te thread and see where you mention the label states 375. So YES it is a 375W PSU. And YES that is more than enough for the video card in question.

EDIT: I like how Coastie went through the thread to remove all mention of the moron, yet didn't bother pointing out that giving BAD ADVICE to our members based on ones complete and total unwillingness to LEARN THE TRUTH does nothing but harm the community here.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 04 April 2012 - 01:26 PM

[LiveBrianD]

Odd - according to this http://www.newegg.co...N82E16883109003 the psu in it is 300W. Either way, that should be fine. (I misread part of this - coastie could you delete my post #31?)

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 04 April 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Odd - according to this http://www.newegg.co...N82E16883109003 the psu in it is 300W. Either way, that should be fine. (I misread part of this - coastie could you delete my post #31?)

OK, now I am confused. I have seen 3 different numbers referenced to this unit. Once at 400, once more at 300, and 375.

What does the label on this sucker say? For that matter, can we get the power rating on the 12V line? That should read something like 20A. Anything over 19A should prove to have more than enough power for the video card in question. If it has less than 19A on the 12V rail, then it needs upgraded in any event, as it would be way too 5v/3.3v heavy and designed for much, much older systems (think Pentium/P2/P3 days).

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 04 April 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 04 April 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Odd - according to this http://www.newegg.co...N82E16883109003 the psu in it is 300W. Either way, that should be fine. (I misread part of this - coastie could you delete my post #31?)

OK, now I am confused. I have seen 3 different numbers referenced to this unit. Once at 400, once more at 300, and 375.

What does the label on this sucker say? For that matter, can we get the power rating on the 12V line? That should read something like 20A. Anything over 19A should prove to have more than enough power for the video card in question. If it has less than 19A on the 12V rail, then it needs upgraded in any event, as it would be way too 5v/3.3v heavy and designed for much, much older systems (think Pentium/P2/P3 days).

Given the age of this (it does have PCIe, after all), I bet it's not 3.3V/5V heavy.

Edit: http://h30434.www3.h...rio/td-p/133661 The third post there says it's 300W. That sounds about right, given other basic HP machines I've seen.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 04 April 2012 - 05:46 PM

[Dellinsp531]

waldojim, on 03 April 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

There is actually a reason I didn't go through the entire thing, because I know the weak minded would be too busy getting hung up on that part of the statement would reading the rest.

Thank you.

LiveBrianD, on 03 April 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

Sure, maybe you passed the class, but you certainly didn't learn anything. Hell, I haven't taken any classes on this and understand how this works better than you do. Please go away.

I learned alot and the professor asked my to teach some of the class.

HG, on 04 April 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

Does this mean that I have a 375 W PSU like waldojim said in the post on previos page?

How can I measure how much my PSU is using?

I am getting more and more confused at this. I do not want to damage my computer. I only have a laptop and this desktop. So if desktop gets broken, I would have only the laptop left.

On HP website, it says you have 300W PSU. I recommand that you talk to a microcenter employee and find out if it will work. Also if you want, they can install it for you for a price and you will have a guarantee that if something goes wrong than you can get your money back. This will solve the problem.

[HG]

waldojim, on 04 April 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

For some reason, I thought you said yours was labeled as being a 300W PSU. I re-read te thread and see where you mention the label states 375. So YES it is a 375W PSU. And YES that is more than enough for the video card in question.

EDIT: I like how Coastie went through the thread to remove all mention of the moron, yet didn't bother pointing out that giving BAD ADVICE to our members based on ones complete and total unwillingness to LEARN THE TRUTH does nothing but harm the community here.

I do not know what the PSU labeling is. I asked about the card working since the connection is pcie X 16 and card is pcie 2.0 x16. THan it was mentioned that PSU requirement needs to be look at. The requirement for the card siad that it needs 400W.

Than you, waldojim, said that it is 375. THan coastie65 said that there is no 375. Dell said that I have 300 W. THan you and Live said that he was not telling the truth.

So now I am not sure what I have. But from your post your saying that I have the 375. So I might get card and see what happens.

[LiveBrianD]

HG, on 05 April 2012 - 05:24 AM, said:

I do not know what the PSU labeling is. I asked about the card working since the connection is pcie X 16 and card is pcie 2.0 x16. THan it was mentioned that PSU requirement needs to be look at. The requirement for the card siad that it needs 400W.

Than you, waldojim, said that it is 375. THan coastie65 said that there is no 375. Dell said that I have 300 W. THan you and Live said that he was not telling the truth.

So now I am not sure what I have. But from your post your saying that I have the 375. So I might get card and see what happens.

Keep in mind that nvidia and ati's psu recommendations are based on the fact that really cheap power supplies can't provide their rated wattage and might blow up if you attempt to draw that much from them. Your OEM power supply should be fine (they're not the best units out there, but much better than the pieces of crap you find on ebay). Given that the outervision psu calc I used recommended 240W for your system with that gpu, and it's estimates are more than you need (I have verified this with a watts up meter on my computer), you're fine. As I said, that psu calc says I need 300W minimum, 350W recommended, but when I tortured the computer (CPU and GPU) I measured 300W from the wall, meaning around 250W draw from the components (it has 85% efficiency at 50% load, and it's a 520W unit).

Also, PCIe is backwards compatible. (it's like plugging a USB 3 hard drive into a USB 2 port or vise versa - it'll work just fine, though you'll be limited to the speed of the USB 2 port since that's the slowest of the two)

Basically, go ahead and get that graphics card, as you won't have any problems with it.

[LiveBrianD]

Dellinsp531, on 05 April 2012 - 04:36 AM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 03 April 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

Sure, maybe you passed the class, but you certainly didn't learn anything. Hell, I haven't taken any classes on this and understand how this works better than you do. Please go away.

I learned alot and the professor asked my to teach some of the class.

HG, on 04 April 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

Does this mean that I have a 375 W PSU like waldojim said in the post on previos page?

How can I measure how much my PSU is using?

I am getting more and more confused at this. I do not want to damage my computer. I only have a laptop and this desktop. So if desktop gets broken, I would have only the laptop left.

On HP website, it says you have 300W PSU. I recommand that you talk to a microcenter employee and find out if it will work. Also if you want, they can install it for you for a price and you will have a guarantee that if something goes wrong than you can get your money back. This will solve the problem.

As I said, even if you passed the class, you're acting like a moron here and you're confusing the OP. Until you learn some facts about this, go away!


Actually, HP's site doesn't mention the PSU anywhere as far as I could find, but according to other forums it's a 300W one. (I think it's a bestec - I found a low-res image of the inside of the case.)

Also, it's not at all hard to install a new power supply in a computer. You have a MUCH higher risk of screwing something up with, say, a CPU. As long as you don't touch the circuit boards in the PC while installing the PSU, you're fine. Ditto for the GPU, which is modular and all. I remember installing a GPU in my computer when I was about 10 years old, and it worked just fine.

[waldojim]

Dellinsp531, on 05 April 2012 - 04:36 AM, said:

waldojim, on 03 April 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

There is actually a reason I didn't go through the entire thing, because I know the weak minded would be too busy getting hung up on that part of the statement would reading the rest.

Thank you.

LiveBrianD, on 03 April 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

Sure, maybe you passed the class, but you certainly didn't learn anything. Hell, I haven't taken any classes on this and understand how this works better than you do. Please go away.

I learned alot and the professor asked my to teach some of the class.

HG, on 04 April 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

Does this mean that I have a 375 W PSU like waldojim said in the post on previos page?

How can I measure how much my PSU is using?

I am getting more and more confused at this. I do not want to damage my computer. I only have a laptop and this desktop. So if desktop gets broken, I would have only the laptop left.

On HP website, it says you have 300W PSU. I recommand that you talk to a microcenter employee and find out if it will work. Also if you want, they can install it for you for a price and you will have a guarantee that if something goes wrong than you can get your money back. This will solve the problem.

Microcenter employees know less than you do... and that isn't saying much.