[waldojim]

HG, on 05 April 2012 - 05:24 AM, said:

I do not know what the PSU labeling is. I asked about the card working since the connection is pcie X 16 and card is pcie 2.0 x16. THan it was mentioned that PSU requirement needs to be look at. The requirement for the card siad that it needs 400W.

Than you, waldojim, said that it is 375. THan coastie65 said that there is no 375. Dell said that I have 300 W. THan you and Live said that he was not telling the truth.

So now I am not sure what I have. But from your post your saying that I have the 375. So I might get card and see what happens.

.

Usually, when people move to dedicated cards, they switch to something quite powerful. Most times, the cards have such an extreme draw, that cheap power supplies are likely to have difficulty keeping up. This results in either a short lifespan, or in extreme cases, exploding powersupplies.

The card you are looking at has a marginal power draw. More than most OEM PC's are used to? Sure. More than the OEM power supply can handle? Not hardly. I would be willing to bet HP has sold thousands of machines using that exact same PSU/CPU/GPU combo you are putting together right now with no ill effects. There is a reason DELL/HP/Etc stick with video cards like the 6450-6670. They don't need extremely stable power supplies to handle them.

Go ahead, pick one up, and enjoy it. You have nothing to worry about in your machine, apart from Windows of course! Be ready to give Windows a bit of a fight with the transition, the best method is to remove all traces of the old card and driver before you install the new one. This way there is nothing stopping Windows from loading the new ones correctly.

[LiveBrianD]

My suggestion - go into device manager and uninstall the old card, removing the driver software in the process, before shutting down the PC and installing the new card.

[HG]

waldojim and LiveBrianD, the computer got destroyed after putting the card into the computer. There was smoke coming from the computer, I pulled out the cord and touch the case and I got burns on my hand. Due to your advice, my computer is broken. You destroyed my computer. I should have realized that if people are not professionals on the forum that most like people should not be listening to them.

I took it to best buy and they said that motherboard and hard drive is damaged and not repairable. I lost many photos and documents that were only on this desktop. People should be warned that your adivce is not very good.

[waldojim]

HG, on 09 April 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

waldojim and LiveBrianD, the computer got destroyed after putting the card into the computer. There was smoke coming from the computer, I pulled out the cord and touch the case and I got burns on my hand. Due to your advice, my computer is broken. You destroyed my computer. I should have realized that if people are not professionals on the forum that most like people should not be listening to them.

I took it to best buy and they said that motherboard and hard drive is damaged and not repairable. I lost many photos and documents that were only on this desktop. People should be warned that your adivce is not very good.

Damaged motherboard has nothing to do with what was said here. Makes me wonder what really happened.

[LiveBrianD]

HG, on 09 April 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

waldojim and LiveBrianD, the computer got destroyed after putting the card into the computer. There was smoke coming from the computer, I pulled out the cord and touch the case and I got burns on my hand. Due to your advice, my computer is broken. You destroyed my computer. I should have realized that if people are not professionals on the forum that most like people should not be listening to them.

I took it to best buy and they said that motherboard and hard drive is damaged and not repairable. I lost many photos and documents that were only on this desktop. People should be warned that your adivce is not very good.

That is just bizarre. A most likely less than 200W load (definitely less than 100W when idle) on a 300W PSU killing the entire machine? Are you sure you didn't do something like flip the voltage selector switch on the power supply? Are you sure you installed it right?

[coastie65]

HG, on 09 April 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

waldojim and LiveBrianD, the computer got destroyed after putting the card into the computer. There was smoke coming from the computer, I pulled out the cord and touch the case and I got burns on my hand. Due to your advice, my computer is broken. You destroyed my computer. I should have realized that if people are not professionals on the forum that most like people should not be listening to them.

I took it to best buy and they said that motherboard and hard drive is damaged and not repairable. I lost many photos and documents that were only on this desktop. People should be warned that your adivce is not very good.

Hi. Sorry to hear about the computer. That shouldn't have happened. I have repeatedly been warning folks about arbitrarily jumping into these discussions and being more disruptive then helpful. We do have some good knowledgeable people around here and their strengths lie in various areas. I should have watched this thread a little closer, but have been busy elsewhere. Admittedly there are some that have become a problem around here to some degree.

The most you will get FROM the power supply is 12v. If you said you burned your hands when you touched the case, I am pretty sure it was around the Power supply somewhere and so that thing got shorted out somehow. There is only 5v on the PCIe bus if I remember correctly. The motherboard acn be fairly obvious that it is gone by bloated, exploded, and discolored Capacitors as well as other anomalies. Don't know how the hard drive could have been damaged though, unless it took a major jolt of power.

[coastie65]

waldojim, on 09 April 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

HG, on 09 April 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

waldojim and LiveBrianD, the computer got destroyed after putting the card into the computer. There was smoke coming from the computer, I pulled out the cord and touch the case and I got burns on my hand. Due to your advice, my computer is broken. You destroyed my computer. I should have realized that if people are not professionals on the forum that most like people should not be listening to them.

I took it to best buy and they said that motherboard and hard drive is damaged and not repairable. I lost many photos and documents that were only on this desktop. People should be warned that your adivce is not very good.

Damaged motherboard has nothing to do with what was said here. Makes me wonder what really happened.

It was an old MOBO ( socket 939 ). If I had to guess, it was probably the OEM PSU, and it malfunctioned. I can't see where a Graphics card change would do much in that regard, except maybe break the slot trying to put it in ( has been known to happen & memory too ). Anyway, it sounds like a big blast of electricity from or maybe a short in the PSU.

This post has been edited by coastie65: 09 April 2012 - 03:37 PM

[waldojim]

coastie65, on 09 April 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

Hi. Sorry to hear about the computer. That shouldn't have happened. I have repeatedly been warning folks about arbitrarily jumping into these discussions and being more disruptive then helpful. We do have some good knowledgeable people around here and their strengths lie in various areas. I should have watched this thread a little closer, but have been busy elsewhere. Admittedly there are some that have become a problem around here to some degree.

The most you will get FROM the power supply is 12v. If you said you burned your hands when you touched the case, I am pretty sure it was around the Power supply somewhere and so that thing got shorted out somehow. There is only 5v on the PCIe bus if I remember correctly. The motherboard acn be fairly obvious that it is gone by bloated, exploded, and discolored Capacitors as well as other anomalies. Don't know how the hard drive could have been damaged though, unless it took a major jolt of power.

The PCI-E bus uses 5v for signaling, but also supplies 12V for power. The chances of a 300 watt power-supply randomly blowing up under a 250 watt load (peak in this case) are extremely minimal. This type of failure is typically limited to the Ebay $10 units. The BestTec units are not the greatest units I have ever dealt with, but will deliver about 90% of their rated power. Unless of course, there was internal damage on the PSU that none of us could have predicted. EG: Capacitor failure. Even then, if that was the case, this machine was doomed from the beginning. The only question would have been of time.

[waldojim]

coastie65, on 09 April 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

It was an old MOBO ( socket 939 ). If I had to guess, it was probably the OEM PSU, and it malfunctioned. I can't see where a Graphics card change would do much in that regard, except maybe break the slot trying to put it in ( has been known to happen & memory too ). Anyway, it sounds like a big blast of electricity from or maybe a short in the PSU.

You know, I would actually bet motherboard failure first. Yesterday, I was at a friends house for Easter. He happens to own a very similar machine to the op: AMD Socket 939, 2GB of DDR 400 ram, BesTec power supply. When he asked me about upgrading the video card on his (so he could join us all in Skryim) I asked to pop off the cover. He obliged. I got what I expected, and what I didn't when opened. First, the Motherboard was an MSI board - not expected, and there was a full PCI-E 16 slot - also not expected. Expected: Cheapo PSU. Which was an aging BesTec unit that happens to be testing good - not just no load good, but real load good as well.

So why would I tell him to buy a new machine?

The motherboard had several bad caps - all of them feeding the PCI-E slot (that was empty!). Wish I had taken pics, but I didn't expect the thread to go this way.

[LiveBrianD]

HG, on 09 April 2012 - 06:10 AM, said:

I took it to best buy and they said that motherboard and hard drive is damaged and not repairable. I lost many photos and documents that were only on this desktop.

If you plug the hard drive into another computer, NOT putting it ON a metal surface (for instance, the case, just to make sure you don't get shorts - use a cardboard box instead or a wood/glass desk or something else non-conductive), is it detected at ALL? Does it seem to spin up? And make sure you don't have power supply connectors touching things, for instance.

[coastie65]

waldojim, on 09 April 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

coastie65, on 09 April 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

It was an old MOBO ( socket 939 ). If I had to guess, it was probably the OEM PSU, and it malfunctioned. I can't see where a Graphics card change would do much in that regard, except maybe break the slot trying to put it in ( has been known to happen & memory too ). Anyway, it sounds like a big blast of electricity from or maybe a short in the PSU.

You know, I would actually bet motherboard failure first. Yesterday, I was at a friends house for Easter. He happens to own a very similar machine to the op: AMD Socket 939, 2GB of DDR 400 ram, BesTec power supply. When he asked me about upgrading the video card on his (so he could join us all in Skryim) I asked to pop off the cover. He obliged. I got what I expected, and what I didn't when opened. First, the Motherboard was an MSI board - not expected, and there was a full PCI-E 16 slot - also not expected. Expected: Cheapo PSU. Which was an aging BesTec unit that happens to be testing good - not just no load good, but real load good as well.

So why would I tell him to buy a new machine?

The motherboard had several bad caps - all of them feeding the PCI-E slot (that was empty!). Wish I had taken pics, but I didn't expect the thread to go this way.

Bad caps feeding the PCIe? That was probably a disaster waiting to happend once a dedicated card was plugged in. I have been around here for quite awhile and this is a first as far as I know. I am going to have to start watching this stuff more closely and running people off if necessary. I have been through this thread and can't find anything that would have lead to that as , although of the stuff was maybe useless, it wasn't harmful. On a guess, I would say that that computer was circa '04 - '05. I can't say as I have had any problems with BesTec ( came in my eMachines ), although I did change the one in the second eMachines to an Antec, then Corsair. There was a catastropic failure and my guess is the PSU and / or MOBO. What may have precipitated it is anyone's guess. From what I've seen in this thread, he was wrong to be throwing blame back here though as everything seemed to be pretty solid. I do wish that LB would settle down and just observe instead of feeling like he has to jump in to everything though. In too many cases, he offers little and just tends to confuse the poster. I also don't like it when I make some good solid suggestions, he unecessarily jumps in and counters it with something else. I realize that everybody has their own favorites, but sometimes, when they are on a budget you have to go with what you have. You can work your way through that with some good solid stuff and stay within their budget usually. Now with the new Intel i5 2550k Sandy Bridge ( 3.4 Ghz and no IGP ), you have another choice for a budget build ( $229.99 ) .

This post has been edited by coastie65: 10 April 2012 - 08:16 AM

[waldojim]

coastie65, on 10 April 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

waldojim, on 09 April 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

coastie65, on 09 April 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

It was an old MOBO ( socket 939 ). If I had to guess, it was probably the OEM PSU, and it malfunctioned. I can't see where a Graphics card change would do much in that regard, except maybe break the slot trying to put it in ( has been known to happen & memory too ). Anyway, it sounds like a big blast of electricity from or maybe a short in the PSU.

You know, I would actually bet motherboard failure first. Yesterday, I was at a friends house for Easter. He happens to own a very similar machine to the op: AMD Socket 939, 2GB of DDR 400 ram, BesTec power supply. When he asked me about upgrading the video card on his (so he could join us all in Skryim) I asked to pop off the cover. He obliged. I got what I expected, and what I didn't when opened. First, the Motherboard was an MSI board - not expected, and there was a full PCI-E 16 slot - also not expected. Expected: Cheapo PSU. Which was an aging BesTec unit that happens to be testing good - not just no load good, but real load good as well.

So why would I tell him to buy a new machine?

The motherboard had several bad caps - all of them feeding the PCI-E slot (that was empty!). Wish I had taken pics, but I didn't expect the thread to go this way.

Bad caps feeding the PCIe? That was probably a disaster waiting to happend once a dedicated card was plugged in. I have been around here for quite awhile and this is a first as far as I know. I am going to have to start watching this stuff more closely and running people off if necessary. I have been through this thread and can't find anything that would have lead to that as , although of the stuff was maybe useless, it wasn't harmful. On a guess, I would say that that computer was circa '04 - '05. I can't say as I have had any problems with BesTec ( came in my eMachines ), although I did change the one in the second eMachines to an Antec, then Corsair. There was a catastropic failure and my guess is the PSU and / or MOBO. What may have precipitated it is anyone's guess. From what I've seen in this thread, he was wrong to be throwing blame back here though as everything seemed to be pretty solid. I do wish that LB would settle down and just observe instead of feeling like he has to jump in to everything though. In too many cases, he offers little and just tends to confuse the poster. I also don't like it when I make some good solid suggestions, he unecessarily jumps in and counters it with something else. I realize that everybody has their own favorites, but sometimes, when they are on a budget you have to go with what you have. You can work your way through that with some good solid stuff and stay within their budget usually. Now with the new Intel i5 2550k Sandy Bridge ( 3.4 Ghz and no IGP ), you have another choice for a budget build ( $229.99 ) .

I actually found dell dude to be more infuriating than brian. Namely because he was arguing over something so very stupid, when all he needed was 30 seconds worth of research.
I have also seen bad caps on the video bus in one other place, on my Gigabyte amd socket A board. That board was smart enough to kill power though, once the caps blew.

[coastie65]

waldojim, on 10 April 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

coastie65, on 10 April 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

waldojim, on 09 April 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

coastie65, on 09 April 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

It was an old MOBO ( socket 939 ). If I had to guess, it was probably the OEM PSU, and it malfunctioned. I can't see where a Graphics card change would do much in that regard, except maybe break the slot trying to put it in ( has been known to happen & memory too ). Anyway, it sounds like a big blast of electricity from or maybe a short in the PSU.

You know, I would actually bet motherboard failure first. Yesterday, I was at a friends house for Easter. He happens to own a very similar machine to the op: AMD Socket 939, 2GB of DDR 400 ram, BesTec power supply. When he asked me about upgrading the video card on his (so he could join us all in Skryim) I asked to pop off the cover. He obliged. I got what I expected, and what I didn't when opened. First, the Motherboard was an MSI board - not expected, and there was a full PCI-E 16 slot - also not expected. Expected: Cheapo PSU. Which was an aging BesTec unit that happens to be testing good - not just no load good, but real load good as well.

So why would I tell him to buy a new machine?

The motherboard had several bad caps - all of them feeding the PCI-E slot (that was empty!). Wish I had taken pics, but I didn't expect the thread to go this way.

Bad caps feeding the PCIe? That was probably a disaster waiting to happend once a dedicated card was plugged in. I have been around here for quite awhile and this is a first as far as I know. I am going to have to start watching this stuff more closely and running people off if necessary. I have been through this thread and can't find anything that would have lead to that as , although some of the stuff was maybe useless, it wasn't harmful. On a guess, I would say that that computer was circa '04 - '05. I can't say as I have had any problems with BesTec ( came in my eMachines ), although I did change the one in the second eMachines to an Antec, then Corsair. There was a catastropic failure and my guess is the PSU and / or MOBO. What may have precipitated it is anyone's guess. From what I've seen in this thread, he was wrong to be throwing blame back here though as everything seemed to be pretty solid. I do wish that LB would settle down and just observe instead of feeling like he has to jump in to everything though. In too many cases, he offers little and just tends to confuse the poster. I also don't like it when I make some good solid suggestions, he unecessarily jumps in and counters it with something else. I realize that everybody has their own favorites, but sometimes, when they are on a budget you have to go with what you have. You can work your way through that with some good solid stuff and stay within their budget usually. Now with the new Intel i5 2550k Sandy Bridge ( 3.4 Ghz and no IGP ), you have another choice for a budget build ( $229.99 ) .

I actually found dell dude to be more infuriating than brian. Namely because he was arguing over something so very stupid, when all he needed was 30 seconds worth of research.
I have also seen bad caps on the video bus in one other place, on my Gigabyte amd socket A board. That board was smart enough to kill power though, once the caps blew.

Yeah, I have stepped in with him in the past. eMachines had major MOBO problems some years ago with their AMD based machines. Don't remember precisely what was happening, but it did result in a lot of MOBO replacements. I like getting there and helping folks out, but I usually let others handle things when they are going well and I am busy. I may step in with and additional thought / suggestion at times. Sometimes when things are slow here, I will spend some time over at MaximumPC and help out some. It is fun and I enjoy doing it. Haven't been over to Tom's Hardware in quite some time. Different sort of crowd over there and not one I am all that comfortable with ( too many prima donnas ). I also don't mind being corrected as sometimes I don't really dig as deep as I should on something. Sometimes, way too much stuff gets thrown out there and it tends to confuse the person looking for help ( get this, get that sort of thing ). Just don't let yourself get all riled up over something. Best to just walk away from it. Anyway, back on topic, I don't see anything in this thread that could have lead to that disaster, and thus he shouldn't have been assigning blame.

[LiveBrianD]

Specifically, as I recall, some of the bestecs were notorious for some component that failed in it, causing the 5VSB voltage to skyrocket and fry the motherboard.

Btw I'm not sure if the 2550K is a good idea or not - it's $10 more than the 2500K and there are cases where integrated graphics can be handy (for instance, if you think your dedicated card is failing), and you can easily overclock an extra 100MHz out of a 2500K if you want to (at which point you basically have a 2550K for $10 less with integrated graphics).

This post has been edited by coastie65: 11 April 2012 - 03:47 AM

[waldojim]

coastie65, on 10 April 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

Yeah, I have stepped in with him in the past. eMachines had major MOBO problems some years ago with their AMD based machines. Don't remember precisely what was happening, but it did result in a lot of MOBO replacements. I like getting there and helping folks out, but I usually let others handle things when they are going well and I am busy. I may step in with and additional thought / suggestion at times. Sometimes when things are slow here, I will spend some time over at MaximumPC and help out some. It is fun and I enjoy doing it. Haven't been over to Tom's Hardware in quite some time. Different sort of crowd over there and not one I am all that comfortable with ( too many prima donnas ). I also don't mind being corrected as sometimes I don't really dig as deep as I should on something. Sometimes, way too much stuff gets thrown out there and it tends to confuse the person looking for help ( get this, get that sort of thing ). Just don't let yourself get all riled up over something. Best to just walk away from it. Anyway, back on topic, I don't see anything in this thread that could have lead to that disaster, and thus he shouldn't have been assigning blame.

As I understand it, many motherboards were having problems during that time - not just emachines. There was a long moment of piss poor caps being used. Unfortunately, they never did learn. Only on enthusiasts boards do you find decent caps.

He assigned blame because he felt he had a right to do so. How was he to know the possible outcomes, or reasons for it? Had we not had members who were busy trying to argue the battle he couldn't win, he wouldn't have gotten the feeling that we were more into bickering than teaching, and learning. We did earn a bit of blame there, in the sense that we should have stopped that argument dead in its tracks very early on. That said, what happened to his machine still has nothing to do with the advice he received from us.

[LiveBrianD]

Do you think bad caps on the motherboard had anything doing, or was it simply user error? (ex. a short)

By the way, unless you're overclocking a ton or driving the heck out of your system, I doubt lower quality caps matter too much. After all, there are plenty of OEM machines that last quite a while under typical usage.

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 10 April 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Do you think bad caps on the motherboard had anything doing, or was it simply user error? (ex. a short)

By the way, unless you're overclocking a ton or driving the heck out of your system, I doubt lower quality caps matter too much. After all, there are plenty of OEM machines that last quite a while under typical usage.

After seeing dozens of machines used by people with absolutely no understanding of overclocking destroyed by bad caps, I tend to disagree. Yes, the OEMs may still be functioning long after the caps exploded, as is the case with my Gigabyte Socket A board, and my friends Socket 939, and my Socket 7 el cheapo board (ALL WORKING). That does NOT mean they are working correctly. That also does not mean the board is ready to feed a video card 75 watts of power.

[coastie65]

waldojim, on 10 April 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

coastie65, on 10 April 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

Yeah, I have stepped in with him in the past. eMachines had major MOBO problems some years ago with their AMD based machines. Don't remember precisely what was happening, but it did result in a lot of MOBO replacements. I like getting there and helping folks out, but I usually let others handle things when they are going well and I am busy. I may step in with and additional thought / suggestion at times. Sometimes when things are slow here, I will spend some time over at MaximumPC and help out some. It is fun and I enjoy doing it. Haven't been over to Tom's Hardware in quite some time. Different sort of crowd over there and not one I am all that comfortable with ( too many prima donnas ). I also don't mind being corrected as sometimes I don't really dig as deep as I should on something. Sometimes, way too much stuff gets thrown out there and it tends to confuse the person looking for help ( get this, get that sort of thing ). Just don't let yourself get all riled up over something. Best to just walk away from it. Anyway, back on topic, I don't see anything in this thread that could have lead to that disaster, and thus he shouldn't have been assigning blame.

He assigned blame because he felt he had a right to do so. How was he to know the possible outcomes, or reasons for it? Had we not had members who were busy trying to argue the battle he couldn't win, he wouldn't have gotten the feeling that we were more into bickering than teaching, and learning. We did earn a bit of blame there, in the sense that we should have stopped that argument dead in its tracks very early on. That said, what happened to his machine still has nothing to do with the advice he received from us.

Yeah, didn't used to have all the bickering. Problem is, we have some people stepping in wanting to help and they are in over their heads and offer liitle to no help. There is a thing called courtesy. If you see that some one is working a thread, read it first and see what is going on. If the poster is working on a suggestion that has been offered by a member, than move on and don't be jumping in with something else. They need the time to work that line of thought to it's conclusion, before embarking on something else if that doesn't pan out. We used to have a point system that were awarded by the person with the problem after things were done. We do have some good knowledgeable members around here. A bunch of us can offer good advice on a build & parts. You and Snyper are our resident OC people in my opinion. Brian can get around Windows pretty well and when someone has a problem in that area, I usually let him handle it ( heck I just remembered how to change from double click to single click to open a file last night, as I had forgotten ). As I said, I will read through a thread and IF I have something to offer that hasn't been covered then I will do so. If not, then I'll move on and that is as it should be. There seems to be some that think they have to be involved in everything and most of the time what they have to offer is of litttle to no use and just serves to break the line of thought. That having been said, I have seen it over on MaximumPC, but over there, you have a handful of members answering a lot of problems and no toes get stepped on in the process. I have stepped in at times and offered my own suggestions, but without stepping on someones toes and I have never caught any flack from the members over there in the process. It is all in knowing how to conduct yourself and there are some around here that have a lot of learning / maturing to do.

[coastie65]

waldojim, on 10 April 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

coastie65, on 10 April 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

Yeah, I have stepped in with him in the past. eMachines had major MOBO problems some years ago with their AMD based machines. Don't remember precisely what was happening, but it did result in a lot of MOBO replacements. I like getting there and helping folks out, but I usually let others handle things when they are going well and I am busy. I may step in with and additional thought / suggestion at times. Sometimes when things are slow here, I will spend some time over at MaximumPC and help out some. It is fun and I enjoy doing it. Haven't been over to Tom's Hardware in quite some time. Different sort of crowd over there and not one I am all that comfortable with ( too many prima donnas ). I also don't mind being corrected as sometimes I don't really dig as deep as I should on something. Sometimes, way too much stuff gets thrown out there and it tends to confuse the person looking for help ( get this, get that sort of thing ). Just don't let yourself get all riled up over something. Best to just walk away from it. Anyway, back on topic, I don't see anything in this thread that could have lead to that disaster, and thus he shouldn't have been assigning blame.

As I understand it, many motherboards were having problems during that time - not just emachines. There was a long moment of piss poor caps being used. Unfortunately, they never did learn. Only on enthusiasts boards do you find decent caps.

With eMachines, it was just the AMD socketed boards. The Intel socketed boards did fine. eMachines used an Intel MOBO.

[waldojim]

coastie65, on 11 April 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

With eMachines, it was just the AMD socketed boards. The Intel socketed boards did fine. eMachines used an Intel MOBO.

Intel was one of the very few companies that refused to take shortcuts on caps. Even my old P1 board rocked all solid caps.