[coastie65]

LiveBrianD, on 10 April 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity, I went over to that outervision psu calc, and it said that, for a phenom x4 955 and two geforce 680s in sli (as well as a hard drive and dvd burner), a 550W power supply is recommended. Heck, I could (just barely) get away with that on my seasonic if I wanted to! (with my CPU, it says 509W recommended) You could definitely do that on your TX650. (but then again, who has the budget for two 680s? ) Oddly enough, with my config, it recommends 116W more (for 625W) if I get two 580s, and 800W or so with two 590s. Only there would your AX850 be the right amount. They dropped the TDP on the 680 a bit from previous cards, like the 580, by ~50W.

I haven't looked into the TDP on those things as yet. That's interesting. I could handle two 680's, but at the moment sensibility rules out. I had thought of getting one of those Limited Edition Mars II Nvidia cards that were going for $1500, but decided against it. The 560Ti is doing well and it isn't a year old yet ( next month ). Now I'm seeing a new Sandy Bridge chipset to replace the Z68 ( Z77 ). There is no getting ahead.

[LiveBrianD]

lol - I remember when I built this machine and 'thought cool, now I have the latest thing!' and then Sandy Bridge came out a year later and I thought 'Darn it! Out of date again!'.

Take a look here: http://www.tomshardw...sors,13733.html
35W for a low-end CPU and 65W for a lot of the mid-range ones is pretty cool. (literally!)

Granted, in your case it's easier to upgrade than in mine (since you already have an 1155 board), but even if I had one of those, I'd probably pass on it. (I don't have tons of money to waste, and don't see the reason to upgrade.) That said, if I were building a new machine for myself right now, I would probably wait for IB (or, if I got impatient, I'd grab a G620 or something like it as a placeholder, and then get a real CPU, like an i5, later).

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 10 April 2012 - 05:58 PM

[waldojim]

coastie65, on 10 April 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 09 April 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

For that gpu, a 650W power supply is a bit overkill, though I suppose if you ever want to add a second 550ti you'll be set. Another good one (on par with the Seasonic S12II 620W, from what I've heard) is the Corsair TX650. I know coastie has one of those.

Brian, I am getting a bit weary of this overkill business. If the price is right, then go for the 650w and then you'll have the headroom you need as well. The 850w I have in here IS overkill, but my choice. If I decide to go with two GTX 680's in sli, then It won't be overkill. Point is, I'm ahead of the game with what I have. The prices on the Corsair 650wTX have been south of $100, and there is no reason not to get one if your budget can handle it and they are of known good quality. You are right in that if he wanted to add another card in sli, then 650 would be fine............maybe, depending on the card. Other than the overkill part of your statement, the rest is good. Yeah, I have a 650TX in the Gateway and a 850TX in the closet ( have the AX850 in here).

The problem Coastie, is that a lot of power supplies are far less stable, and FAR less efficient when the machine is at either an Idle, or "active idle" state. I have seen many reports of people using 650watts on systems that PEAK at 200W resulting in unstable machines - WHEN IDLE. No, the best answer is not always "bigger is better". The best answer is: Get what is appropriate and in your budget.

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 10 April 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity, I went over to that outervision psu calc, and it said that, for a phenom x4 955 and two geforce 680s in sli (as well as a hard drive and dvd burner), a 550W power supply is recommended. Heck, I could (just barely) get away with that on my seasonic if I wanted to! (with my CPU, it says 509W recommended) You could definitely do that on your TX650. (but then again, who has the budget for two 680s? ) Oddly enough, with my config, it recommends 116W more (for 625W) if I get two 580s, and 800W or so with two 590s. Only there would your AX850 be the right amount. They dropped the TDP on the 680 a bit from previous cards, like the 580, by ~50W.

The 580s consume a BOATLOAD more power than the new 680's.

[waldojim]

OP: this is my suggestion, keeping the hardware inside of a $600 budget, and being a powerful gaming machine:
Antec Case with 380W PSU.

Gigabyte Motherboard

Intel i3 2120 3.3Ghz chip

EVGA 560SE - This is a tad more powerful than the 550Ti, in about the same price bracket. Don't worry, the EA380 can still handle it, just don't get two!

4GB GeIL 1600Mhz ram

500GB Samsung F3

LG DVD burner

Total is $557 BTW.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 11 April 2012 - 01:47 AM

[LiveBrianD]

I've never heard of geil ram - why not something like this? Other than that, I like that config.

[coastie65]

waldojim, on 11 April 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

coastie65, on 10 April 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 09 April 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

For that gpu, a 650W power supply is a bit overkill, though I suppose if you ever want to add a second 550ti you'll be set. Another good one (on par with the Seasonic S12II 620W, from what I've heard) is the Corsair TX650. I know coastie has one of those.

Brian, I am getting a bit weary of this overkill business. If the price is right, then go for the 650w and then you'll have the headroom you need as well. The 850w I have in here IS overkill, but my choice. If I decide to go with two GTX 680's in sli, then It won't be overkill. Point is, I'm ahead of the game with what I have. The prices on the Corsair 650wTX have been south of $100, and there is no reason not to get one if your budget can handle it and they are of known good quality. You are right in that if he wanted to add another card in sli, then 650 would be fine............maybe, depending on the card. Other than the overkill part of your statement, the rest is good. Yeah, I have a 650TX in the Gateway and a 850TX in the closet ( have the AX850 in here).

The problem Coastie, is that a lot of power supplies are far less stable, and FAR less efficient when the machine is at either an Idle, or "active idle" state. I have seen many reports of people using 650watts on systems that PEAK at 200W resulting in unstable machines - WHEN IDLE. No, the best answer is not always "bigger is better". The best answer is: Get what is appropriate and in your budget.

True, but you really don't get that with Corsair With the prices I've seen on the 650TX, it is pretty much a no brainer to just go with it and you have the extra if needed down the road. With Corsair, you are pretty much assured that you will have plenty on the rails too.

[coastie65]

waldojim, on 11 April 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

OP: this is my suggestion, keeping the hardware inside of a $600 budget, and being a powerful gaming machine:
Antec Case with 380W PSU.

Gigabyte Motherboard

Intel i3 2120 3.3Ghz chip

EVGA 560SE - This is a tad more powerful than the 550Ti, in about the same price bracket. Don't worry, the EA380 can still handle it, just don't get two!

4GB GeIL 1600Mhz ram

500GB Samsung F3

LG DVD burner

Total is $557 BTW.

For the money, this should be a pretty good build. Good package.

[LiveBrianD]

coastie65, on 11 April 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

waldojim, on 11 April 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

The problem Coastie, is that a lot of power supplies are far less stable, and FAR less efficient when the machine is at either an Idle, or "active idle" state. I have seen many reports of people using 650watts on systems that PEAK at 200W resulting in unstable machines - WHEN IDLE. No, the best answer is not always "bigger is better". The best answer is: Get what is appropriate and in your budget.

True, but you really don't get that with Corsair With the prices I've seen on the 650TX, it is pretty much a no brainer to just go with it and you have the extra if needed down the road. With Corsair, you are pretty much assured that you will have plenty on the rails too.

True, but even so, you just don't need a ton of extra power in a lot of cases. Granted, for a PC like yours, I suppose it might be worth it (I know you'll be tempted to get a 680 or two ), but on a budget, why spend the extra when you probably won't need it?

[waldojim]

coastie65, on 11 April 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

True, but you really don't get that with Corsair With the prices I've seen on the 650TX, it is pretty much a no brainer to just go with it and you have the extra if needed down the road. With Corsair, you are pretty much assured that you will have plenty on the rails too.

I dunno. Over the years I have seen unusual behavior with electronics. You may actually find that sub 20% loads are harder on your power supply than you realize. Even though Corsair, PC Power and Cooling, Antec, and Seasonic know how to correct for the low load issues, that doesn't mean that they aren't under unnecessary stress as a result.

One of those odd examples of strange behaviors are amplifiers. Did you know that running at about 80% power is the absolute hardest on an amp? For some reason, running at 70% or 100% load will both reduce the stress on a typical amp. Do good amplifiers let people see this weakness? Of course not. But that doesn't change the fact, that at 80% load, you are still placing unnecessary stress on the amp.

[coastie65]

waldojim, on 12 April 2012 - 12:48 AM, said:

coastie65, on 11 April 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

True, but you really don't get that with Corsair With the prices I've seen on the 650TX, it is pretty much a no brainer to just go with it and you have the extra if needed down the road. With Corsair, you are pretty much assured that you will have plenty on the rails too.

I dunno. Over the years I have seen unusual behavior with electronics. You may actually find that sub 20% loads are harder on your power supply than you realize. Even though Corsair, PC Power and Cooling, Antec, and Seasonic know how to correct for the low load issues, that doesn't mean that they aren't under unnecessary stress as a result.

One of those odd examples of strange behaviors are amplifiers. Did you know that running at about 80% power is the absolute hardest on an amp? For some reason, running at 70% or 100% load will both reduce the stress on a typical amp. Do good amplifiers let people see this weakness? Of course not. But that doesn't change the fact, that at 80% load, you are still placing unnecessary stress on the amp.

Actually, I haven't gotten that deep into it. I just know what I have experienced with Corsair. The upside to Corsair is that you can run a 450w or 500w Corsair and be assured that you will still have plenty on the rails for most cards these days. You don't necessarily have to have a 52a rail ( but I like it ). With the cards these days, I would like to have at least 30a although 25a may be fine. That is my primary concern with the PSU ( that and over all quality ) and I generally look for that. With Oblivion, they recommended 400w and 18a on the +12v rail minimum. I got an Antec Basiq 500w PSU with 18a on the rail, but when the graphics got intense, that 18a wasn't enough and had a few problems. I don't think I've even come close to 80% load on any of the Corsairs I've had. I have seen people do builds and use the 1200w PSU and that even had me scratching my head. Maybe if you are planning on running quad 680's you might want to consider one.

[waldojim]

coastie65, on 12 April 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

Actually, I haven't gotten that deep into it. I just know what I have experienced with Corsair. The upside to Corsair is that you can run a 450w or 500w Corsair and be assured that you will still have plenty on the rails for most cards these days. You don't necessarily have to have a 52a rail ( but I like it ). With the cards these days, I would like to have at least 30a although 25a may be fine. That is my primary concern with the PSU ( that and over all quality ) and I generally look for that. With Oblivion, they recommended 400w and 18a on the +12v rail minimum. I got an Antec Basiq 500w PSU with 18a on the rail, but when the graphics got intense, that 18a wasn't enough and had a few problems. I don't think I've even come close to 80% load on any of the Corsairs I've had. I have seen people do builds and use the 1200w PSU and that even had me scratching my head. Maybe if you are planning on running quad 680's you might want to consider one.

For what it is worth, the Antec Basiq is basically another random cheapo PSU.The earthwatts 380 is actually good for 28A! Moving from the cheapest of the cheap, to a quality line changes everything. For the average machine - even the average gaming machine, there is little, if any, need for more than 350 watts. When moving to enthusiast level cards, the 560Ti for example, then yes, 450 may be a good place to be. But there are no single card machines that need more than a 500 watt quality PSU. Though when you get into fast quad core performance rigs that are overclocked, and rocking high end video cards, you will be above the odd 20% load point on a 650 or 700 watt PSU, so there really isn't too much of a problem there.

[coastie65]

waldojim, on 12 April 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

coastie65, on 12 April 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

Actually, I haven't gotten that deep into it. I just know what I have experienced with Corsair. The upside to Corsair is that you can run a 450w or 500w Corsair and be assured that you will still have plenty on the rails for most cards these days. You don't necessarily have to have a 52a rail ( but I like it ). With the cards these days, I would like to have at least 30a although 25a may be fine. That is my primary concern with the PSU ( that and over all quality ) and I generally look for that. With Oblivion, they recommended 400w and 18a on the +12v rail minimum. I got an Antec Basiq 500w PSU with 18a on the rail, but when the graphics got intense, that 18a wasn't enough and had a few problems. I don't think I've even come close to 80% load on any of the Corsairs I've had. I have seen people do builds and use the 1200w PSU and that even had me scratching my head. Maybe if you are planning on running quad 680's you might want to consider one.

For what it is worth, the Antec Basiq is basically another random cheapo PSU.The earthwatts 380 is actually good for 28A! Moving from the cheapest of the cheap, to a quality line changes everything. For the average machine - even the average gaming machine, there is little, if any, need for more than 350 watts. When moving to enthusiast level cards, the 560Ti for example, then yes, 450 may be a good place to be. But there are no single card machines that need more than a 500 watt quality PSU. Though when you get into fast quad core performance rigs that are overclocked, and rocking high end video cards, you will be above the odd 20% load point on a 650 or 700 watt PSU, so there really isn't too much of a problem there.

I agree that with a single card 450w - 500w is fine as long as you have what you need on the rails. That Earthwatts is good and 28a on the rails should be fine. Yeah, I didn't know about the Antec Basiq at the time I bought it, but that went into the eMachines anyway, before I moved to the Corsair. It went back into the eMachines before I gave that thing to my Sister ( the 350w LiteOn that was in the Gateway didn't have enough molex connectors ). Anyway, I'm happy with my AX850 Corsair even if it is overkill and I get ragged for it.