[VladTheEmailer]

unbound, on 03 April 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

A lot of things wrong with the article, but I'll just focus on one:

"Certainly, there's the argument that grocery stores give when there's a lost kid wandering the aisles -- don't say the child's name over the intercom, because a child is more likely to go with someone who knows their name (even if that someone is a stranger). But I don't think it's fair to extend that argument to grown adult women."

The kid isn't going to walk out with a stranger in that circumstance...the kid is looking for the parent and the store isn't going to hand the kid over to some stranger the kid doesn't know just because they know the kids name. This is one of the most painfully stretched strawman arguments I've seen in quite a while.

"Is your name Susan? There's a lady outside calling your name. Is that your Mommy? Do you want me to take you to her?"

[SunnyTwito]

You can't help but blame the people advertising their personal information on the web. If you put up all your personal details for anyone to read, you should recognize that YOU put up that information PUBLICLY. Yes, apps like this are creepy in many ways. . .but no less creepy than oversharing personal details for no reason.

[Bn0yi]

flamed, on 03 April 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Alfinisti, on 03 April 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Data hates a vacuum. If you commit data to social sites,or the cloud fully expect it to be used in a manner that may not be to your liking, and you will have no recourse.

I don't understand why so many people don't agree with you. I agree 100%. I was taught young that Privacy is a privilege and not a right. It was awarded to me when I was good and had earned the trust it came with, and when I hadn't my room got searched, and my locker was searched, and so forth and so on. I also learned the biggest lesson in regard to privacy that so many parents aren't willing to teach their children "NEVER commit anything to film or paper that you would be ashamed for the world to see or read"

You are assuming that only embarrassing or shameful postings could cause harm. It is far more likely that the innocuous "G-rated" information about you will used against you. A con artist of any variety, whether sexual predator or common thief, can easily create a false sense of trust and safety by knowing in advance what you look like, your dog's name, what your car looks like, how many siblings you have, etc. Sure much of this info was available to the public before the intertoobs were invented, but it required a lot of work to get it all. Having to go to city hall, libraries, and a good deal of time stalking the victim to learn patterns and habits.

I agree that we need to be circumspect about what info we provide online. I, for instance, gasp!, don't have a facebook or twitter account. But noobody in this age is going to suggest we can put the genie back in the bottle. People are not going to stop posting family pics on flicker or facebook, accepting unknown followers on twitter, or checking in with Foursquare. Which is all the more reason why we shouldn't minimize the risks that new technology poses.

[Sarah Jacobsson Purewal]

unbound, on 03 April 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

A lot of things wrong with the article, but I'll just focus on one:

"Certainly, there's the argument that grocery stores give when there's a lost kid wandering the aisles -- don't say the child's name over the intercom, because a child is more likely to go with someone who knows their name (even if that someone is a stranger). But I don't think it's fair to extend that argument to grown adult women."

The kid isn't going to walk out with a stranger in that circumstance...the kid is looking for the parent and the store isn't going to hand the kid over to some stranger the kid doesn't know just because they know the kids name. This is one of the most painfully stretched strawman arguments I've seen in quite a while.

Um...this is exactly what might happen. There are plenty of ways a stranger can use the knowledge of a child's name to manipulate the child into leaving with them. Especially if the child is already lost and scared. This is because children don't use the Internet (mostly) and are used to only people who know them (not necessarily who they, themselves, know) knowing their names.

[Sarah Jacobsson Purewal]

Bn0yi, on 03 April 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

wildcatherder, on 03 April 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

It's perfectly fair to extend the "knows my name" argument to grown women. Every successful con game depends on prior knowledge of the target. Whether you are conning someone into bed or out of their inheritance, pretending to know someone is the best first step.

Yep! Here's the risk. A woman is leaving the grocery store. A stranger comes up and says "Hi! You are Susan, right? I know your brother Paul. He and I go to State U. together. Listen, I'm having a little bit of trouble with my car. Would you give me a hand for a sec?"

Growing up female means that you learn very early not to trust strangers in parking lots. But, this guy isn't a stranger, is he? He knows my brother.

But that said, there is probably no stopping this. Privacy in the public sphere is history. About the best we can hope for is that some enterprising young woman will create a "Block me from appearing in GAM" app.

I'm not saying that it would be impossible to use a woman's publicly available Facebook info to manipulate her into bed (or wherever), but this is a pretty bad example. It's a very unrealistic scenario, that one of my brother's friends from whatever university would be able to recognize me on sight, and even if he did, I, being the normal person that I am, would probably ask him a few questions about my brother in order to gauge whether he was actually telling the truth. The reason for my distrust would be his supremely weird approach, which involved recognizing one of his friend's sisters -- who he's never met -- on sight.

I mean, I've had people recognize me before, and it always involves confusion and a lot of surprise. And honestly, that kind of recognition ("Aren't you...?") doesn't instill the kind of trust that other types of recognition ("Didn't we go to ASIJ together?") do, and the latter types of recognition are painfully easy to verify. Plus, I have a pretty common name. I really don't think it's fair to assume that a woman is going to run away with someone who knows her name (I have a pretty common name, and plenty of people say it all the time in my presence, without even referencing me), and I don't think that anything on Facebook is really going to change that.

I guess that's the real point: That's the beauty of Facebook -- even if you share every single little tiny detail of your life, and someone reads all of it...they still know nothing useful about you. There's really no substitute for interacting with a person in the real world. Sure, a guy can come up to me armed with the knowledge of my hometown, high school, full name, marital status, dog's name (I don't have a dog), where I went to college, and how old I am, and what are they going to say? "Hey, didn't you go to high school with me?" ("No. I knew everyone in my high school."), "Hey, you look like you're...25." ("Um...."), "Hey, isn't your dog's name Silva?" ("Um......") I can honestly think of very few things that a guy, armed with my Facebook knowledge, could say that wouldn't instill an immediate sense of distrust in me, barring the normal situation where he pretends that he knows absolutely nothing. I suppose the "knowing your target's name" thing might work on drunk girls.

[Joexmqs]

People need to learn about how their information is being used and either use the controls of that application to manage that, or if that is not possible, simply omit information or not use the application all together.

Though the program has poor ethical tastes with regards to sexism, the issue is how your information is being used. Once it has the "public" designation you have lost control over it. This is only an example.

The only way to stop it is to control your information. Do not over share with people you do not know (hint: public is people you do not know).

[Callithyia]

Sarah Jacobsson Purewal, on 03 April 2012 - 12:27 PM, said:

Bn0yi, on 03 April 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

wildcatherder, on 03 April 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

It's perfectly fair to extend the "knows my name" argument to grown women. Every successful con game depends on prior knowledge of the target. Whether you are conning someone into bed or out of their inheritance, pretending to know someone is the best first step.

Yep! Here's the risk. A woman is leaving the grocery store. A stranger comes up and says "Hi! You are Susan, right? I know your brother Paul. He and I go to State U. together. Listen, I'm having a little bit of trouble with my car. Would you give me a hand for a sec?"

Growing up female means that you learn very early not to trust strangers in parking lots. But, this guy isn't a stranger, is he? He knows my brother.

But that said, there is probably no stopping this. Privacy in the public sphere is history. About the best we can hope for is that some enterprising young woman will create a "Block me from appearing in GAM" app.

I'm not saying that it would be impossible to use a woman's publicly available Facebook info to manipulate her into bed (or wherever), but this is a pretty bad example. It's a very unrealistic scenario, that one of my brother's friends from whatever university would be able to recognize me on sight, and even if he did, I, being the normal person that I am, would probably ask him a few questions about my brother in order to gauge whether he was actually telling the truth. The reason for my distrust would be his supremely weird approach, which involved recognizing one of his friend's sisters -- who he's never met -- on sight.

I mean, I've had people recognize me before, and it always involves confusion and a lot of surprise. And honestly, that kind of recognition ("Aren't you...?") doesn't instill the kind of trust that other types of recognition ("Didn't we go to ASIJ together?") do, and the latter types of recognition are painfully easy to verify. Plus, I have a pretty common name. I really don't think it's fair to assume that a woman is going to run away with someone who knows her name (I have a pretty common name, and plenty of people say it all the time in my presence, without even referencing me), and I don't think that anything on Facebook is really going to change that.

I guess that's the real point: That's the beauty of Facebook -- even if you share every single little tiny detail of your life, and someone reads all of it...they still know nothing useful about you. There's really no substitute for interacting with a person in the real world. Sure, a guy can come up to me armed with the knowledge of my hometown, high school, full name, marital status, dog's name (I don't have a dog), where I went to college, and how old I am, and what are they going to say? "Hey, didn't you go to high school with me?" ("No. I knew everyone in my high school."), "Hey, you look like you're...25." ("Um...."), "Hey, isn't your dog's name Silva?" ("Um......") I can honestly think of very few things that a guy, armed with my Facebook knowledge, could say that wouldn't instill an immediate sense of distrust in me, barring the normal situation where he pretends that he knows absolutely nothing. I suppose the "knowing your target's name" thing might work on drunk girls.

Right, but that's assuming he actually comes up and tries to "manipulate you into bed." Stalking isn't always like that-- have you ever just been followed all over everywhere by some creep? Dealt with a peeping tom? Last thing you want is for them to be able to piece together where you are ::all the time.:: Everyone keeps dismissing "awkward nerds." The point of something like this is that it makes it easy for people who aren't tech savvy to follow you. It opens it up to every creepster who ever wanted to stalk a girl but didn't have the know-how.

Our culture not only makes location-based services the norm but continues to objectify women so commonly that we're all sitting here talking about how stupid one another must be instead of asking ourselves what kind of culture thinks this kind of app is permissible-- and what it says about our cultural status and equality. Are women supposed to be barred from Foursquare? Are we supposed to live in bubbles while the menfolks go out in the world and overshare with impunity? Seriously, ladies, we're talking about something bigger than "those silly girls who overshare."

This app is a reinvention of the old power dynamic of "i will have the woman of my choosing, the pick of the crop." We're sitting here reinforcing our own objectification instead of empowering ourselves to defy it.

[ClaudeD]

LuisLopezel1l Said :"Within less than 30 seconds I was able to find out so much about you, it is almost comical.

Your real name, your activities, photos all your family members, even your dog. Your address, your hobbies....

If I was out to hurt you, I could make a guide and a plan in about an hour."

What so interesting about his post is.....wait for it..... There is no such person as ClaudeD. ClaudeD has no family, no pictures, no pets, no car not a single thing. Somebody should tell this simpleton that he wasted 30 seconds searching and gathering information for nobody, a non existent fictiuos person. By the way created for people with no life at all. But surely if take all that information you gathered and send it to ClaudeD, just maybe he could become real in some place other than LuisLopezel1l's imagination. Excellent Job of researching and gathering nothing about nobody. IDIOT

[ClaudeD]

LuisLopezel1l Said :"Within less than 30 seconds I was able to find out so much about you, it is almost comical.

Your real name, your activities, photos all your family members, even your dog. Your address, your hobbies....

If I was out to hurt you, I could make a guide and a plan in about an hour."

What so interesting about his post is.....wait for it..... There is no such person as ClaudeD. ClaudeD has no family, no pictures, no pets, no car not a single thing. Somebody should tell this simpleton that he wasted 30 seconds searching and gathering information for nobody, a non existent fictiuos person. By the way created for people with no life at all. But surely if take all that information you gathered and send it to ClaudeD, just maybe he could become real in some place other than LuisLopezel1l's imagination. Excellent Job of researching and gathering nothing about nobody. IDIOT

LuisLopezel1l, on 03 April 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

ClaudeD, on 03 April 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

this app is a natural development and direct offshoot of facebook and twitter social type services. Some of us could consider this as useful app for perverts but to the less street smart crowd its a really neat tool. Additionally whats so interesting about this is there will be more of these privacy invading apps made for users who are to inept to understand that the "security" they constantly cry about is a big 0 on a scale of 1 to 10 compared to apps like this that is an 11.

Within less than 30 seconds I was able to find out so much about you, it is almost comical.

Your real name, your activities, photos all your family members, even your dog. Your address, your hobbies....

If I was out to hurt you, I could make a guide and a plan in about an hour.

[Poohsmom]

Hey Sarah. Unlike the people who lure kids, rapists of grown women aren't generally known for politely asking their victims to accompany them to the scene of the impending crime. Somebody crazy enough to seek out a victim with this app is crazy enough to wait for her in a dark parking lot when she's headed to her car after the party is over. I'm shocked a female journalist wouldn't consider this type of criminal mindset.

[digitalculturela]

The biggest issue is that people don't understand the technology that they are using or the incentives that operate in these companies.

[Sarah Jacobsson Purewal]

@Poohsmom

You are correct, there are people who are crazy enough to wait for unsuspecting women to walk out of a club/bar unaccompanied into a dark parking lot. However, I fail to see how the app, in this case, would be much help to potential rapist, except for the "location" data which is pulled from Foursquare, which is already public. In fact, most of the arguments against this app do not apply at all to your situation, because the theoretical rapist wouldn't need ANY of the information on the woman's Facebook account, public or not.

[LanceSykes]

FB and others have made it difficult all along to figure out what you're sharing and to change it.This thing was a stalker app and they pulled it because the lawsuits would come immediately.ALSO, WHY DOESNT PC WORLD COMMENTS HAVE DISCUS? EVERY LOGIN OPTION IS ONE THAT SHARES PERSONAL INFORMATION. WHEN I LOGGED IN THEY EVEN HAVE THE NERVE TO ASK IF THEY CAN POST ON MY BEHALF AND ACCESS MY DATA AT ANY TIME, (almost didnt spot it). The writer of this article obviously expresses the opinion of PC WORLD which is 'SKREW PRIVACY, we are getting paid here". HEADS UP

[bankerdanny]

Bn0yi, on 03 April 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

Growing up female means that you learn very early not to trust strangers in parking lots. But, this guy isn't a stranger, is he? He knows my brother.

That's the kind of logic that a child would use. He says he knows my sibling/parent/cousin whatever, he must be OK.

Any grown woman who would apply that logic either fell into 2012 from 1950 via a freak wormhole or has lived a very very sheltered life in a convent or a small rural town in Montana with no TV, internet or newspapers.

[GinnyMies]

Sarah, I respect you and your writing, but I'm going to have to politely disagree with you about this app.

This app essentially takes women, places them on a map, and allows creeps to stalk them like prey. It is wrong to assume that only socially awkward dudes will be using this app to strike up an awkward conversation. Maybe I watch too much Law and Order: SVU, but what if a guy sees the girl check into a coffee bar and then follow her home? It is naive to assume that only non-threatening Apple geeks will be using this app.

I do agree with you that this is a wake-up call for people (not just women) to think about how much they're willing to share publicly on the Internet.

But these kind of arguments get into some really dangerous territory. Will victims be blamed for getting stalked and harmed in the same way victims get blamed for wearing a short skirt or walking around late at night? This *is* the darkside of social networking and a new era in crime. And this is not the last we'll see of apps like GirlsAroundMe.

[Sarah Jacobsson Purewal]

GinnyMies, on 04 April 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Sarah, I respect you and your writing, but I'm going to have to politely disagree with you about this app.

This app essentially takes women, places them on a map, and allows creeps to stalk them like prey. It is wrong to assume that only socially awkward dudes will be using this app to strike up an awkward conversation. Maybe I watch too much Law and Order: SVU, but what if a guy sees the girl check into a coffee bar and then follow her home? It is naive to assume that only non-threatening Apple geeks will be using this app.

I do agree with you that this is a wake-up call for people (not just women) to think about how much they're willing to share publicly on the Internet.

But these kind of arguments get into some really dangerous territory. Will victims be blamed for getting stalked and harmed in the same way victims get blamed for wearing a short skirt or walking around late at night? This *is* the darkside of social networking and a new era in crime. And this is not the last we'll see of apps like GirlsAroundMe.

I'm not saying that it can't be used to stalk girls -- obviously it can. I just don't think it's the novel danger that everyone is making it out to be. Certainly, a guy can see a girl check into a coffee shop and then wait for her to leave and follow her home. But can't the same guy (I think we can safely assume this is not a normal, sane guy) see the same girl *walk* into a coffee shop, wait for her, and then follow her home? Or see her check in on a non-stalker app (e.g. Foursquare) and then go to the coffee shop, wait for her, and follow her home? I just don't think this app combines information in a new way that's significantly more dangerous than any danger that was already there.

As for the potential for victim-blaming, I don't think there's any excuse for that. I guess my point is that, in the whole picture of internet privacy, I think we lose touch with what it really means to "know" someone in real-life vs. online. Many people share too much online, but others just share what is essentially harmless information -- names, ages, etc. It's really easy to think you "know" someone because you Facebook-stalk them, but realistically you know nothing about them save for a few statistical datapoints. I do think it's naive of developers to think people want their data to be innovated with, but I also think it's naive to think that knowing a few datapoints about someone gives you much of an advantage with them in real life. So, from what I can see, the only dangerous part of this app is the Foursquare part, which already existed.

[PlaceMask]

Sarah Jacobsson Purewal, on 04 April 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

@Poohsmom

You are correct, there are people who are crazy enough to wait for unsuspecting women to walk out of a club/bar unaccompanied into a dark parking lot. However, I fail to see how the app, in this case, would be much help to potential rapist, except for the "location" data which is pulled from Foursquare, which is already public. In fact, most of the arguments against this app do not apply at all to your situation, because the theoretical rapist wouldn't need ANY of the information on the woman's Facebook account, public or not.

This is exactly why I wrote PlaceMask for Android. Well almost exactly...many people don't realize they are leaking location. Some don't remember that their phone camera is capturing your location. PlaceMask monitors the location settings on your device for you. I replaces your true location with a fake one. It reports on the apps that use your location. You can see it at Google Play (https://play.google....k.android.trial) and learn about other use cases there.

[mikedgolf40505]

Two quick questions. First where as American; do we have a "right to privacy"? Second, if you are a female and you put out your personal information on social site; do you not bear the responsibility?

[TheOldTopkick]

Free speach allows you to defend if you so wish. Freedon also allows me to say what I think ofg such idiots but my upbrining will not allow it. This action my save some lives.