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This has been a problem with every single Touch and iPhone and iPad since day one.

Does anyone know what WiFi chipset brand is in this model? I remember they have used Broadcom, which I know I have had connectivity issues on my PC's that used their chips vs Intel's chips.

What I don't understand is this. Apple is working with prototypes of these devices for at least a year. They are working with the same final release device we get for several months prior to release, how is it they never find any problems and release these devices, and all we do is spend a few minutes with them and we uncover a slew of problems?

The articles states that these posts started showing up minutes after users starting using the new device.

I noticed when I restored a backup from my iPod Touch 3G to the 4G, it has WiFi connection issues. Once I restored the OS again and just set the device up as new they went away and it hasn't been a problem since. I noticed a similar issue when restoring the backup of my iPhone 4 onto my 4S. May be best to set the device up as new and see if teh problem persists. if it does than there is a problem that you won't be able to likely fix.

Somethign is wrong there. And based on what I read on Neowin, the issue isn't readily fixiable with software updates, so that denote (possibly) a hardware problem.

This post has been edited by QUADICON: 06 April 2012 - 06:30 AM

QUADICON, on 06 April 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

Really? You don't understand how Apple can't test well enough to avoid a minute fraction of a percent of sold devices having reported faults (of which we have no idea how many are actually real)?

Hardly a "slew". Most manufacturers would be thrilled with such a low fault rate.

Interesting, my year old Asus Transformer has no issues connecting to WiFi. Android is obviously better.

crosswordbob, on 06 April 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

I don't care about fault rate numbers. Again your attempt to play down and ongoing issue is sad.
It's called quality control. For every so many products producted, a manufacturer is obligated to test and item. At least that si what si required here in the USA. Maybe in China this may not be the case.

But are you saying, just because a product is made overseas, Apple can't request a few hundred to be sent to Cupertino so they can check the devices for quality and workmanship and make sure they wwork right?

As I stated in another post to another person, car companies here sell defective cars all the time. They may never know until year later there is a problem. However, the feds force them to do recalls, even if the problem never presents itself and even if it isn't a life-threating problem.

What I am saying to YOU Bob is simple. Ever iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad have had this same problem. That is enough for Apple to take the needed steps to insure the SAME problem doesn't keep happening. The fact the same exact problem has appeared on more than 5 different devices shows there is a significant issue with the hardware they chose to use and maybe they shoudl consider using something else.

if you bought a product and it constyantly kept having issues, no matter what it cost, and that problem cotinued over several products from the same brand, would you keep buying it? That is one reason I stick with ATI for example and I don't use Nvidia because I had several issues with laptops I owned that used Nvidia chipsets that I didn't have with ATI.

Just because YOU may not be haing a problem with yours, doesn't mean there is no issue. And I didn't say you said such. I am just saying as I already did say, Apple has 365+ days to test 100's of devices maybe even 1000's of them. They shoudl be able to discover many of the problems we seem to find in just minutes of using the device. If they aren't it means their quality control as with every product manufacturer I see is happening with Apple as well. As production numbers go up, quality always goes down. It happened to GM, Ford and even Toyota and even Honda.

It si a given that more products being made, means more of them could have a problem...however a company with a very good QA group will spot problems and halt manufacturering to prevent so many problematic products being made.

Have you ever worked in a factory? I have. When someone from QA sees a bad product, they halt the entire line and make us open every box that were produced within a certain time frame to make sure defective products were not in those and were missed. The line is not restarted until this process is done. Once the line is restarted, its production is slowed to make sure there is nothing wrong with the machines that could be damaging the product. In some cases a mchine is take out of production and is tested for hours before allowed back in.
Such checks are costly as they can interfere with production numbers. That why many US cmpanies move them overseas, because they only care about their bottom-line.

crosswordbob, on 06 April 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

It does matter that 700 out of 4M are the ones complaining about a problem. You all always try to use numbers as some line to govern when somethign is or isn't a problem. Here is a number for you...flying is the safest way to travel based on stats. Hwoever, if a plane crashes and all 300 people on board die, does that mean that we shouldn't be concerned? Does that mean that the FAA shouldn't investigate properly? Does that mean that maybe they should tell a carrier to ground similar aircraft? Here is a live example for you...we had an sirline here which more than once had a cockpit bust open while the plane was in mid-air. In both cases the pilots had to drop the plane to below 10,000ft because the cabin lost all pressure. Over 200 peoples lives were at risk. Are you saying they are worth sacrificing because this is something based on numbers doesn't happen often?

The principle of what I am saying applies to products too. Small numbers shouldn't not be your bar on how bad a problem is. It si a problem no mater how many have it. Just like one person with an infectious diesease is everyones problem if it spreads.

And if you go and read the threads Bob, the biggest users havign the issues are those here in the States. Hmmmm! Where have I seen this before?
How about adding to the issue...Apple selling 4G capable iPad in countries where the 4G inside doesn't work with any carrier in their country. Hmmmm! Was that an accident..or just carelessness. You decide what you want. I see it as careless in only caring about sells and letting the consumer work out the rest. If ANY company did such in the USA, those products are banded and the feds have all retailers pull products off the shelf immediately. This has happened many time when the FDA found tainted foods and tainted medications. Any company caught selling such afterwards is heavily fined. We care about our citizen to some degree. Maybe where you live you don't have such.

The first 2 Apple mobile devices I ever own was the Touch 3G and 4G models.

I noticed I had WiFi connection issues when I restored a backup from and older device to the newer device. This was also a problem in out office when users of the iPhone 3G moved to the iPhone 4 and 4S. They too had connectivity issues with the WiFi.

Apple suugest clering the WiFi setting after doing such, but inmy experience it only remdied the problem for a short time.

In most cases it required restoring the OS clean and setting up the device as new. After doing so the problem in most cases never returned.

The downside to this is, you won't have you backed up data. So for any apps or games where you have saved data, you now have to start all over again.

TO me this sucks. if I install a new version of Windows, I could certainly lose access to some data. Hwoever usually updatign an application to work properly gives me access ot the data that I already saved in tacted. Because iOS has a locked file system, you can't just copy your saved data from one device to another.

This is a problem that has happened with every iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad for 6 years and counting. At what point are they going to fix the issue?

For the peopel who keep saying, because thsi problem is only happen t a few, they seem to "suggest" per as usual; we shodl ignore the issue. But the fact it has happen to (2) Touchs, (5) iPhone and (3) iPad to where the collective numbers shows there is a big problem, the naysayers should just not say anything.
In 365+ days of testing variuos builds and if they tested 100's or 100's of devices, these problems should show up somewhere. It is hard to believe that no one found any issues until after we get them and we find them in just minutes of using the devices.

QUADICON, on 06 April 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Having owned both of the devices that you said you owned and had zero problems I have to ask if it was operator error.

Were these jailbroken devices?

This post has been edited by nonseq: 06 April 2012 - 08:18 AM

QUADICON, on 06 April 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that doing so wouldn't have caught a fault with such low failure rate. Defects happen—you can't prevent that, you can just do your best to make sure they are few and far between. As is the case here. You don't care about fault rate numbers? And you expect to be taken seriously?

QUADICON said:

And what I'm saying to YOU, QUADICON, is that you have no hard facts to support that notion. A few hundred forum posts are not hard facts.

QUADICON said:

Of course I wouldn't. Nor would most people. But clearly most people haven't experienced these issues you claim, because we know Apple has extremely low fault rates on iOS devices and industry leading customer satisfaction. Isn't it just possible that you're making a big fuss over nothing?

QUADICON said:

Why do you keep repeating that stupid "Just because YOU" crap if you know I don't believe that? It adds nothing to the conversation. And like I've already said, such testing won't necessarily show up faults if faults exist on a tiny fraction of devices. As seems to be the case here, going by the numbers. So in the spirit of your response, just because YOU believe there are enough faults with the new iPad to have been caught in even the most stringent testing doesn't mean there ARE such.

QUADICON said:

Oh good grief. Another QUADICON "I've done this sort of work before so I'm an expert" claim. Sorry, QUAD, but I don't believe you—your job history, if claims you've made here are true, would seem to have entailed every possible position in every available sector, ever. And given the naïviete of your arguments (you really don't think fault rate numbers are important?!), I'm even less convinced than normal.

QUADICON, on 06 April 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

Oh wow. Are you really comparing alleged wifi connectivity issues with civil aviation disasters? That is... well, I'd better not say exactly what that is, as I fear it may contravene the forum guidelines. Just think about it. On a plane, lives are at risk. As such, the acceptable failure rate for critical systems is zero. How do they manage that? Regular maintenance and inspections, and an awful lot of money.

Sure Apple could make the iPad free from failure. They'd just need to charge $5k each, and have you return it for maintenance every couple of months. Sound like a plan?

nonseq, on 06 April 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

Oh boy here we go. The assumption the items had to be jailbroken. NO THEY WERE NOT. If you read Apple forums, you will see this has been a more common issue when a user with a "new" device restored a backup from an "older" device. The quick fix was simple...either reset the device sometimes fixed it, reste the network settings sometimes fixed it, or restoring and settign up the device as new. This has been a common problem for every single iPod Touch, every sngle iphone and every single iPad. Hwoever, looking at many of the latest ipad posts, these were first time ipad users who didnt have a previous model to restore a backup from.


What you need to stop doing is trying to interject something that doesn't even fit. These users dont have jailbroken iPad's so thus you have no reason to even suggest such. Thus fanboyish type behavior. Again you and your "friends" love to suggest, just ebcause YOU didn't have a problem, there must not be one or you are causing it. Those are typical fanboy answers to everything.

Just liek when a user on a plane had his iphone 4 explode. The first thing the fans asked, was his device jailbroken. Both the iPhone 4 and 4S get pretty hot if they are left on and you pocket where they can't get air. Even holding it for long period one corner gets quite warm. Tjo it sint alarming to me.

Based on known facts, new Apple products usually go into production about 6 months before official release. I will make a small assumption that by the time the new device is in production, Apple is already into or maybe even past some design phases of a newer model.Between R&D and release, Apple has ample time to test 100's or even thousands of produced items and they surely woudl find problems if they exist. They never find NONE and as soon as we get them they hve issues within mintues.

Yet Bob had the adacity to ask, how is it you can't see how it can't be missed. It's simple. Based on average, Foxconn can product over 1M iPad in just a month or so of time. So in 6 months before the item is released, that means Apple has already product at least or close to 5M iPad's. How can anyone claim that in 5M producted items Apple can't find one with a problem, yet as soon as they ship here and we open them up and plug them in, peopel start posting almost immediately with minutes of several issues? Items that are made in China and shipped here usually come by boat. The port of LA is not far from Apple's headquaters assuming this is where they come too. Apple can't easily pop open a crate and randomly ahve 100 items pulled brought in and tested

Now here is an example of how crappy China can be. Here in the Chicago, out local metro transporatation called the CTA (which you can Google thsi info) was using a supplier for parts for the train cars. The CTA mechanic founds that certain parts that go underneath the carriage were not working to specs. A serious flaw was found that would cause a train to derail while turning. The CTA said we don't want to use any of the parts becaus eof this one part they are all susupect. Teh distributor tried to push CTA into just replacing other parts as the trains come in for scheduled maintenance. The CTA said no. The issue was a really big deal, because the CTA just paid to have several 100 cars delivered that weer BRAND NEW and they had orders for more of them. Not only did they return the new cars, production was halted on the rest of them. That si how you're suppose to do it for you naysayers. Just because a company si known for making quality products, such as Apple and others, doesn't mean you just take it for granted it will always be that way. Ask Toyota...

QUADICON, on 06 April 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Odd, as I remember it, it was not so long ago you were telling us that they were jail broken. And frankly, with your track record for veracity I'm not sure that any information provided without direct substantiation is worth pursuing.

crosswordbob, on 06 April 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

The point was principle...all you are considering is the extreme end of the example. The priciple still applies. What you don't see to get is simple. Why is Apple continously having the EXACT same problem with at this point is 6 generation of products.

if you flew on a plane often and you used the same airline soften, and 2 times you flew the roof on the plane busted open, would you keep flying with that airline, or would youi seek and alternative. Its not the nature of the example, its the principle. How serious does a problem have to be for anyone to do something about it?

Let me show you the difference...if the iPhone 4 issue wasn't such a big deal, then why is it Apple made sure the later 4 and 4S models didn't suffer the exact same issues? Notice if you hold the newer devices exactly like the older ones, they don't do the same thing. It shows they fixed the problem. So, every iPod Touch, every iphone and every ipad has had conenctivity issues with the WiFi. Coudl this not say that the wifi chipset Apple is using could be defective? And maybe Apple should consider an alternative chipset? broabcome I know has a history of making bad hetworking devices.

A brand new problem would be acceptable and tolerable if it was no fault of the manufacturer, but a constant repeating problem over6 generations shoudl raise some question.

Either you stand for something or you'll fall for anything. Haven't you heard that? The problem with consumers, not enough of them ever question anything. That is why we get cheap crap from other countries here that contain lead paints, stuff that catcches on fire and more. Its not until someone gets sick or hurt then all of a sudden everyone runs like a madhouse to solve and issue that coudl have been prevent from the very start. In 6 years of making thse basically exact same devices, but now this problem should no longer be one. No matter how you choose to look at it.

nonseq, on 06 April 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

Jailbreaking them later has nothing to do with the initaial usage. So how is that a point. Do you even know how to read? if you do then go over to Apple forum and read connectivity issues and suggested remedies. It doesn't matter if I jailbroke them later. So how is that even a point.

The biigest compalint some users have after jailbreaking is not having connectivity for games that are multiplayer...not that they couldnt connect to a WiFi at all.

Again your whole attempt is to bring up some BS that has nothign to do with the matter at hand. "TYPICAL" fanboy behavior.
I stated as a fact that is common, typical connection issues were caused when the device was using a "RESTORE" from an older device. DID YOU NOT READ THAT. So if a device was freshly restored from a backup, the backup wouldn't contain any jailbreaks would it.

Thus in your own question you show nothing but foolishness in trying to simply start trouble. I'm done with you since your whole attempt is to just be a fan. I don't have time for it today.

QUADICON, on 06 April 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

That's fine with me as I am done with you because I don't have time to waste on constantly changing stories and lack of truthfulness. Be well. I made a mistake by responding to you, I'll take the hit for that.

This post has been edited by nonseq: 06 April 2012 - 10:25 AM

QUADICON, on 06 April 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

You're yet to demonstrate they are.

Quote

I already said: if Apple's devices failed for me, I'd stop using them. But since evidence shows they very rarely have faults it doesn't matter.

Quote

Already told you: CR showed the VZW iPhone 4 behaved identically to the AT&T one. But it dropped fewer calls because VZW's network is better. The phone had. nothing to do with it.

Now unless you can demonstrate any hard evidence of your claims I'm done. In this thread you've implied failure rate numbers don't matter and equated consumer electronic devices with airline critical systems. I think you've embarrassed yourself enough for now.

crosswordbob, on 06 April 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

Well I don't see it that way, though I understand your point. Let's just se where we can agree so we dont have to fight. I gave you a reasonable explanation. Based on Apple own time table, it is "reasonable" t assume, Apple starts production on new devices as ealy as 6 months before release. We get elaked info from manufacturers of components that Apple has given them the go ahead to start production of final parts for a new device. Those leaks happen about 6 months prior to expect release. Do we agree here?

Next point. How many of thse devices can be produced in 6 months time? I am going to make a conservative guess and assume since Foxconn has dedicated 3 factories to "ASSEMBLING" sich devices, and I have work in a assembly pant before, that they coudl product at least 500,000 devices in 30 days or less from a single factory. I can even bet they can produce double because all they do is out them together. Foxconn has over 35,000 employees and they have the factories running a full 3 shifts. This is why they are being attacked about the working hours of the employees. haven't you read? So lets play with the 500,000 number as conservative. In 6 months a single boat could deliver 5M devices to the USA alone since we are the largest buyers of APple devices. That 5M doesn't go far because so many retilers sell the device outside of APple themselves. Can we agree here?

Now assuming the boat which comes from China lands at the Port of Los Angeles, Apple can easily load 1000's devices on a single truck and dedicated a group of engineers or even a few employees to open them and test the product for quality. They coudl easily download some games, stress test them and use WIFI and more. Right?

Now eher si where we might now agree. IMO, if APple took 1000 devices to Cupertino and fully tested them, they woudl surely find at least (1) problematic device. Is that reasonable? Now, is it also reasonable to assume that if you find one, theer are surely more? I am not expecting that once Apple finds a problem that si fixable not to sell the device. However, it woudl seem in logic, since Apple has had WiFi issues with EVERY iPod Touch, EVERY iPhone and EVERY iPad, that they as company ahve the resposibility to make sure at least "this" problem isn't still continuing.

Now let me ask you, after making 3 generations of iPod Touch devices, 5 generations of iPhone and 3 generations of iPads, is it not reasonable to say, that since thsi problem has happened so many times before, tha this problem should no longer be one?

I am a reasonable person. It si reasonable to expect that devices will always have "some' type of problem. However it is NOT coomon for devices to have the exact same problem for 6 years running. Let's make sure we are clear, I said it is not common for this to happen...I never said it couldn't happen.

if you look at the history of Ford, GM and others when they have recalls, the vast majority of the time it is not for the same exact problem. In many cases it is a new problem. Once they fix that problem, it usually doesn't come back for several models. Apple has had this problem with every songle one of the above dvices for 6 years running. To me that spells a quality control problem.

I agree with your point that the numbers of complaints are small based on total sales. First off let's make this clear, not all thsese users are smart enough to knwo when this should be considered a problem. I have found that I coudl be on one WiFi and the conenction works 1005 ok, and move to another and it wont stay conencted. Sometimes I think maybe the WiFi I am on could just have so many people on it, maybe I get bumped off. It does happen. But when it happens in my own home where only 2 or 3 devices are using my WiFi an any one time, and our traffic isn't heavy at all and I am working with 2.4Ghz of bandwidth and all I am doing is playing a server-side game and it bumps me off, and I know my WiFi is working properly, then there is only one conclusion to draw.

I gave you the airplane example, to show you IMO how retard it is to use low failure rates numbers as some scale to consider how serious a problem is. The principle applies no matter how extreme the example.

It si a problem no matter how small. However, if you go to Neowin and read the article, it shows that reports are saying, this issues appears to not be fixiable by a software update. Apple is asking that iPad be reyurn and exchanged if trouble-shooting doesn't resolve the issue. What does that eman...that means it isn't a software issue if that pans out, and points to possible defective hardware.

Is it not reasonable to expect, that first run electronics fresh off an assemnly line can contain defects? are you so wrapped that you are willing to dismiss a problem just ebcause a small percentage are having it. The problem as it states has been ongoing since the very first day Bob.

So look at the list Bob. How many days ago has the new device been out and it has exibitted how many problems already? 2 in my opinion that are serious and 1 that could be, but may not be.

Is the overheating issue a real issue? IMO, a devices that doesn't have vents, and doesn't have active cooling like fans and a heatsink, shouldn't get up to 116 degrees when being used. Would you let your child suffer with a feaver of 116 degrees? They woudl likely be dead...right? 105 is as hig as a fever should be for a child. Anything hotter and the child could dehydrate and die. So heat above 105 coudl surely be causing some damage to components that weren't meant to get that hot. Chip? Yes is reasonaable to say shoudl get that hot. But the ones that do shold have heatsinks and fans. Since the iPad can't handle those because of size constraints, 116 degrees IMO is too hot. Is it a problem? To me yes? Other can feel as they please.

4G connection issues. This isn't even an issue. Apple is selling a 4G capable device in a country that has 4G, yet the devic eis not designed to work on their band. It si designed to work in North America. Question. If you bought a YV in the USA and had it shipped to the UK and it says this tv works in Europe and you take it out the box and you can't even plug it into your outlet, woudl you nto be pissed? Woudl that nto be faulse advertsing? So if some speaks up about it, why do you ahve such a problem with it?It works for you, I am honestlyhappy if no one ever has a prolem with anything they buy. The way I feel, as much as they cost they shouldn't. I don't expect no problems, what I do expect is, a past problem should have already been fixed in 6 years of making the same product over and over and over.

If you fel otherwise, then I question why you buy Apple products because you buy them because you expect high quality in workmanship. Which we noth know they do have which si why we buy them. But in 6 years they can't fix this one problem? Add up the total of people who had this problem in 6 years Bob, times how many of thsese devices they have made. 9 devices Bob, where at least a couple 1000 have reported problems and several thousand don't. All thoe refurbns carriers have Bob, on a newly released device come from what Bob? Don't they come from people returning them for whatever reason? Which problem has the most returns, products that son't work? Or products that got broken from dropping? Which one is going to get you a free replacement is the best clue?!

crosswordbob, on 06 April 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

Demostrated how Bob? All you ahve to do is Google WiFi cnnectivity issues and just insert whichever iDevice you want Bob. THEY ALL HAD THE SAME PROBLEM. Sdtop being lazy. maybe if you spent the time you use to try to discredit posts and do some searching, you wouldn't have to ask or make such lame statements. At least I provide some explanation for my answers. YOU DON'T. Stop being lazy...

Just googling this Bob -"iPhone WiFi connectivity issues" I got i.5M hits. The first 3 says...iPhone WiFi connection issues, the very next says the same for the iPhone 4. After that it says, how to trouble-shoot iPhone/iPad WiFi connectivity issues. Would such hits exist Bob if there was no long standing problem Bob? You are a very trivial person. What do I need to demostrate Bob exactly? You need video foortage Bob? Bob theer are videos that show the iphone 4 that had conenctivity issues is you apply pressure or even use a penny to cover the gaps on the device. The coall disconencts after just a few seconds. You discredited a video Bob even when I showed it to you. So demostrating what Bob is goign to convnce you? Nothing!!! So why ask for it Bob?

Rarely having fault is not equal to no faults Bob. I rarely have prblems with my devices, the ones I did I exchanged. As I have stated, I had an iphone replaced after it broke, that same device was replaced later for constant calls dropping...it was replaced by me selling it and I moved back to VZW and I used that money to buy a new device. The older device was replaced with a refurb from Apple and I sold it in its original package with the plastic that says it is a refurb. I have not had any issues with the Verzion iPhone 4 or 4S. Likely because CDMA is better than GSM and because the antenna issue was fixed. Teardowns have proved Apple change the antenna config for CDMA phones, but that also the ATT model of the 4S also follows the same designs as the repaired iPhone 4 that Verzion finally got. It is nearly impossible to duplicate the same problem with the iphone 4 and 4s. That shows Apple fixed it. So why can't they fix the WiFi issue?

If you actually were into actually talking so actually discuss vs argue BS Bob, you would use wisdom and reason and just search. The vast majority of connection issues usually happen when a user upgarded the device from an older version of the OS to the latest one avail. It has been consistantly seen that most problem were due to the user restoring and older backup to the newer device, or it was an older device backup being restored to a newer device. Resetting the network setting worked for many, for other restoring and settign the device up as new fixed the issue.

The problem with the lastest issue Bob is a bit different. USers are reporting using Apple trouble-shooting steps and it hasn't solve the problem for them. These Apple is saying, exchnage for a new device even if you are past the typical return time. They will give you a new device. GREAT! Even if they don't admit to anything, they are at leats taking the prope steps. That si why they received great customer service ratings, and I have given them such.

Question...should this be a problem on a brand new device after having the same problem every iOS update and every brand new device? My answer is no it shouldn't be a problem 6 years running. You need a demo? Use Google. if you choose to be lazy and don't look, then I can't help you. I am done and won't comment any further. You aren't worth the time or effort. Typical fan bahavior, dismiss factual evidence even when it is readily at your fingers.

FYI - Over 2M hits for iPod Touch WiFi connectivity issues. Notice in the links, many deal with issues with such after upgarding to a newer iOS, or retoring a backup from an older device to a newer device. Notice one of the suggestion si to set the new device up as new and not to restore a backup.

Which opens a door for a new problem. What good is backup up, if I can restore my old data and use it? I dont want to have to reenter my contacts, or notes or start all my games over that I worked hard to finish or 1/2 finish. Think about the people who never backup or cancel them so syncing goes faster.

To take my iPhone and make it be as it was afte a restore, it takes 3 hours to get everything I have back on their and that is without doign all the settings again. That si the point of backing up...but if I can't use it, what good is it?

You aren't having a problem...great! That is not sarcasm. I am honestly happy you arent having an issue. But playing down thos who are is wrong.
Whther it si a BIG problem or a small probelm, they both have one thing in common...its a problem that needs to be addressed.

Theer are literally 100's of blogs for iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad that make pretty much the same suggestion as to how to deal with this issue and try to fix. It likely works for the vast majority. Grest if it does. But after 6 years should this still be a rampant problem?

If you look at the devices, the devices have not seen major upgardes year after year. The main things that have changed is the CPU, GPU and the battery.

Look at this link Bob - http://forums.macrum...d.php?t=1341110



The image shows Apple is still using WiFi/BT chip from Broadcom. Is it possible Bob, that since every iPod Touch, iPhone and ipad that uses chips that use Broadcom, could mean that this is not the best option? That it has known problems? Go and look up Broadcom history Bob. They have hand the same issues when their chips were used in laptops and desktop. I have had laptops with them and theer were times the WiFi would not show any signals nearby, yet my phone would show as many as 20. At least under OSX or Windows, updating drivers coudl solve it. You don't get this option with iOS, we have to wait for Apple. If this is a problem that happens constantly, then why isn't Apple considering another brand?

Facts show, Apple own Macbooks that used parts from Toshiba and others, had higher fault rates vs those that only had Sasmung parts in them. Hmmmm! I see a trend Bob. The trend, some parts are cheap thus used problem or not. What you think will happen to Apple's products if they stop using the best component makers? Apple doesn't make their own parts. They use the best options for the screen, for the CPU and GPU and maybe the battery. What about the rest. In the Wifi only model, this is goign to be used equally as much as the CPU itself...shouldnt it be a top end part too? And if it was, woudl it be haivng such issues? Notice Apple hasn't had an CPU or GPU issues in their moble devices.

QUADICON, on 06 April 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

Up to this line I have no major disagreement. This line, though, I do. No, given the current numbers, I would not expect 1,000 units to contain a faulty device even if all of the alleged reports were actually real. And I do not believe they are. You see normally you go around accusing Apple users of being stupid, but if any of them report a fault—even in a system like wifi that is rife with user-error—you take them at their word. Why is that?

QUADICON said:

You keep saying this. You're yet to demonstrate it.

QUADICON said:

And I demonstrated that it is not. Every product has an acceptable failure rate. Achieving acceptable failure-rate on life or death critical systems is expensive, but necessary as lives depend on it. Trying to achieve the same on a piece of consumer electronics is not economically viable—they'd cost more than people could afford, and the consequences of failure are low.

QUADICON said:

This is staggeringly inept reasoning unworthy of discussion.

QUADICON, on 06 April 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Google hits are not data. Your rants would show up on Google hits for countless non-issues. Individual videos on Youtube are not data—I've seen UFO landings on Youtube, but I don't call that proof of anything. Return rates, device failure rates, user surveys—these would be data. Show me some—any—that show iOS devices failing more frequently than any other mobile device.

QUADICON said:

I'm not playing them down—I'm sure some people do have defective units, which is hard luck for them. But the same is true of every piece of consumer electronics out there, only with iOS, evidence shows there are fewer of them than average for the market.

QUADICON said:

And it will be, one way or another. It's a normal part of life. And it doesn't warrant people like you who have no idea how prevalent it is making a big deal out of it because you have some pathological need to believe every negative Apple rumour you hear.