[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Windows Phone's Secret Weapon: iPhone Carriers here

[IsaacTeller]

Don't be a dumby. Buy a Windows Phone, NOW WITH SKYPE!

[Soundjudgment]

IsaacTeller, on 29 April 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Don't be a dumby. Buy a Windows Phone, NOW WITH SKYPE!

Yes, while it is a good deal... the problem remains that not many are going to rush out to get a WP7.5 phone, UNLESS MS GUARANTEES IT WILL UPGRADE TO WP8. And that is why a portion of the would-be WP owners... don't exist at present.

[Evildave]

IsaacTeller, on 29 April 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Don't be a dumby. Buy a Windows Phone, NOW WITH SKYPE!

Oh, you mean 'skype', like Android phones and iPads already had? Android and iOS also have Google Voice.
http://www.skype.com...pe-for-android/

BTW, 'Skype' is not a selling point to wireless carriers who make their money charging for phone use by the minute. Of course, it does open the door to screwing users by the bit.

I mean, really, Microsoft is in the phone market, then out, then in... and expect to be 'successful' with a 'strategy' of being a complete flake and bawling out how 'now we support' things that other phones already have?

Good luck making money, Microsoft, if your strategy is purely to subsidize the phones, just so the wireless carriers don't have to. Which means to make money they'll have to stick it to their developers in the app store, since sticking it to the manufacturers will only drive them back to Android.

Or, you know, bleed money by the billions, like 'Bing', trying to establish their market, versus Apple and Google, who are already well established and ready to play even dirtier pool, if necessary, and are even better funded than Microsoft, nowadays.

Microsoft has yet to demonstrate that they'll have anything more desirable than an Android phone, AND they have such a long history of quitting the phone market that they make Sarah Palin look like a winner.

[Papaspud9qta]

Sounds like Apple is taking the carriers to the cleaners, they have to subsidize the phone AND give them part of the revenue afterwards.... wow. I can see why they want another platform to sell.

[neogeo1943pbp0]

Solution: Refuse to carry Apple phones and reduce the monthly cost to the customer by a significant portion of the subsidy now paid to Apple. I guarantee people will dump apple for Android or Windows when they see how much they save. It's no wonder why it costs so much for service when you see how much Apples greed rules the carriers.

[dubenezic]

It's all about the apps. If the carriers colluded on not selling iPhones as they do with pricing, etc. let's see how many iPhones apple sells, when no carrier has them.

[Nuke61]

This is an interesting battle, the carriers who tell me what I can or can't do with the data that I buy from them, who take their sweet time deploying an Android update that Google released months ago, and have a different definition of what *unlimited* means when they say I have an unlimited data plan - so I'm supposed to feel sorry for them? So Apple charges too much to the carriers and the solution is to push Windows Phone? Why not just just promote Android more?

[bankerdanny]

RobertDubenezic, on 29 April 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

It's all about the apps. If the carriers colluded on not selling iPhones as they do with pricing, etc. let's see how many iPhones apple sells, when no carrier has them.

It's about more than the apps.

It's about the ecosystem that has been built around the iPhone. Want a clock radio that you can plug your phone into that wakes you up to music on the phone? Well there are probably 50 for iPhones and 2 or 3 for Android phones and none for Windows phones. Pretty much every car maker has a stereo option that interfaces closely with iPhones. few offer the same level of functionality with Android phones.

Personally I have an Android phone and before that 2 Palm phones and a Blackberry. But I have to admit, you can do more with an iPhone than any other phone, and not a little more a LOT more.

This is the reason that no other single phone sells even close to the numbers that the iPhone does.

[havasu46]

Forget the WP8 upgrade the Lumia 900 with WP7.5 is really great. By the time WP8 arrives they'll be a Lumia 920 you'll really want to upgrade to and AT&T will use your Lumia 900 to refurb to a new subscriber.

[Evildave]

Well, you'd have to stop the customers wanting iPhones, I suppose... Somehow.

The wireless companies already have the option to sell all kinds of non-Apple phones. Apple doesn't have a monopoly on anything at all. More Android phones are collectively sold than iPhones.

Apple doesn't run many ads, or lower the price, because extra demand translates directly into outstripped production, and hoarding. Which means filthy hoarders (like ticket scalpers) begin earning the money. They're selling all the phones they can make, as fast as they can make them, for what it costs to make them, plus a reasonable profit.

It's not 'either iPhone or Microsoft'. It's either iPhone, or Android or RIM or webOS or Microsoft or Linux or several other OSs. The wireless companies have plenty of choices, and the Microsoft phones will not be iPhones, any more than Android phones are iPhones, no matter how much Microsoft CLAIMS that theirs are 'better'. Just like they claimed 'Zune' was 'better' than an iPod, too. Before killing Zune.

So Microsoft can PAY to develop and maintain the OS and app stores, PAY to advertise, PAY to produce phones, and PAY to subsidize their own phones' prices, and PAY wireless carriers to sell their phones through and market Microsoft harder than Android/iOS phones, and try to 'compete' by squandering billions of dollars to get a few million phones into people's hands. Spend, spend, spend, and the very second they STOP spending money, their market share growth will cease, too.

All while Apple EARNS money. Android accounts for 250,000,000 phones being actively used, right now. Apple is something over 100,000,000 iPhones.

If Microsoft bleeds several billions of dollars a year, I'm confident they could sell through and activate several million users a year. It's not all in the phones' prices. It's in convincing companies to carry them, and people to buy 'em. 24/7 advertising adds up. So if Microsoft wants to bleed money on their phones, along side bleeding money for 'bing', they might catch up to Apple in a few years. But they still wouldn't catch up to Android. And that assumes Apple and Google don't react in any way to stomp on Microsoft's head.

Every way Microsoft can bleed is a good thing.

It's OK, Microsoft will just tack the extra money onto the prices for desktop Windows and Office. Collect a higher 'Microsoft Tax' on new PCs, and work ever harder to force-feed Office into every organization at new, more inflated prices.

Microsoft doesn't appear to have the attention span to get its foot in the door and stick it out for several years to become a big player. They'll be hyping 'Windows 9' phones even as the unwanted and unsold 'Windows 8' phones collect dust on retailers' shelves.

And really, this isn't Apple vs. Microsoft. It's Microsoft vs. ANDROID. Every 1% Microsoft gains in market share will be taken directly from Android and RIM. As mentioned before, Apple sells every phone through. They have no problem getting demand for their products, and selling them at those prices.

Microsoft will have all the traction of webOS, plus as large a mountain of cash as Microsoft can afford to burn.

[userwloo]

neogeo1943pbp0, on 29 April 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Solution: Refuse to carry Apple phones and reduce the monthly cost to the customer by a significant portion of the subsidy now paid to Apple. I guarantee people will dump apple for Android or Windows when they see how much they save. It's no wonder why it costs so much for service when you see how much Apples greed rules the carriers.

That would affect apple largely at first but apple is more then capable of shedding out money to make them selves their own carrier, in witch the cost of the phone may be cheaper (Although doubtful) but the cost of the plans and contracts remain high, or stays the same as it is currently known but service provided by them. Although i highly doubt apple would succeed in besting out as it's own service provider. Never the less

[userwloo]

Doesn't matter what they do against apple. Why is android not already making them financially happy? they need another a 3rd top notch now since blackberry is hammered? Well if WP8 succeeds their saved but they can't do anything about apple's ridiculous demands because their fan base is all cultist and when they want the latest product from them they will pay for it, possibly even more then it already is now if they wanted to, or find other ways to obtain it, Financing, and etc.

[userwloo]

They get rid of the iPhone apple will still succeed at selling it them selves, and they would probably pay up to have someone provide the service or find a way to do it them selves, this is the Evil company Steve jobs created.

[angryshortguy]

userwloo, on 29 April 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

They get rid of the iPhone apple will still succeed at selling it them selves, and they would probably pay up to have someone provide the service or find a way to do it them selves, this is the Evil company Steve jobs created.

I agree.
How DARE Apple (and the now dead Jobs) charge money for the products they make!
And how DARE they make great products that everyone wants!
This is America!
We don't allow corporate greed, innovation, self promotion in this fair land!
Who does Apple think they are?!
Exxon?
Microsoft?

I'm going home and writing them a scathing email on my iMac, right after I call their corporate headquarters on my iPhone!
Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to finish playing Infinity Blade 2 on my new iPad3.

I'm so angry at Apple right now!!!

[AmySolis]

You need to read your post before publish it and avoid this:

Yankee Group analyst Katie Lewis wrote in her blog that one reason that one reason that carriers...

[AnonymousFriend]

@ Evildave

Shut up.

[AnonymousFriend]

Evildave, on 29 April 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Well, you'd have to stop the customers wanting iPhones, I suppose... Somehow.

The wireless companies already have the option to sell all kinds of non-Apple phones. Apple doesn't have a monopoly on anything at all. More Android phones are collectively sold than iPhones.

Apple doesn't run many ads, or lower the price, because extra demand translates directly into outstripped production, and hoarding. Which means filthy hoarders (like ticket scalpers) begin earning the money. They're selling all the phones they can make, as fast as they can make them, for what it costs to make them, plus a reasonable profit.

It's not 'either iPhone or Microsoft'. It's either iPhone, or Android or RIM or webOS or Microsoft or Linux or several other OSs. The wireless companies have plenty of choices, and the Microsoft phones will not be iPhones, any more than Android phones are iPhones, no matter how much Microsoft CLAIMS that theirs are 'better'. Just like they claimed 'Zune' was 'better' than an iPod, too. Before killing Zune.

So Microsoft can PAY to develop and maintain the OS and app stores, PAY to advertise, PAY to produce phones, and PAY to subsidize their own phones' prices, and PAY wireless carriers to sell their phones through and market Microsoft harder than Android/iOS phones, and try to 'compete' by squandering billions of dollars to get a few million phones into people's hands. Spend, spend, spend, and the very second they STOP spending money, their market share growth will cease, too.

All while Apple EARNS money. Android accounts for 250,000,000 phones being actively used, right now. Apple is something over 100,000,000 iPhones.

If Microsoft bleeds several billions of dollars a year, I'm confident they could sell through and activate several million users a year. It's not all in the phones' prices. It's in convincing companies to carry them, and people to buy 'em. 24/7 advertising adds up. So if Microsoft wants to bleed money on their phones, along side bleeding money for 'bing', they might catch up to Apple in a few years. But they still wouldn't catch up to Android. And that assumes Apple and Google don't react in any way to stomp on Microsoft's head.

Every way Microsoft can bleed is a good thing.

It's OK, Microsoft will just tack the extra money onto the prices for desktop Windows and Office. Collect a higher 'Microsoft Tax' on new PCs, and work ever harder to force-feed Office into every organization at new, more inflated prices.

Microsoft doesn't appear to have the attention span to get its foot in the door and stick it out for several years to become a big player. They'll be hyping 'Windows 9' phones even as the unwanted and unsold 'Windows 8' phones collect dust on retailers' shelves.

And really, this isn't Apple vs. Microsoft. It's Microsoft vs. ANDROID. Every 1% Microsoft gains in market share will be taken directly from Android and RIM. As mentioned before, Apple sells every phone through. They have no problem getting demand for their products, and selling them at those prices.

Microsoft will have all the traction of webOS, plus as large a mountain of cash as Microsoft can afford to burn.

"Apple doesn't run many ads.."

Are you being sarcastic? Hope so.

Quite sick of the Apple ads actually.

[QUADICON]

Evildave, on 29 April 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Well, you'd have to stop the customers wanting iPhones, I suppose... Somehow.

The wireless companies already have the option to sell all kinds of non-Apple phones. Apple doesn't have a monopoly on anything at all. More Android phones are collectively sold than iPhones.

Apple doesn't run many ads, or lower the price, because extra demand translates directly into outstripped production, and hoarding. Which means filthy hoarders (like ticket scalpers) begin earning the money. They're selling all the phones they can make, as fast as they can make them, for what it costs to make them, plus a reasonable profit.

It's not 'either iPhone or Microsoft'. It's either iPhone, or Android or RIM or webOS or Microsoft or Linux or several other OSs. The wireless companies have plenty of choices, and the Microsoft phones will not be iPhones, any more than Android phones are iPhones, no matter how much Microsoft CLAIMS that theirs are 'better'. Just like they claimed 'Zune' was 'better' than an iPod, too. Before killing Zune.

So Microsoft can PAY to develop and maintain the OS and app stores, PAY to advertise, PAY to produce phones, and PAY to subsidize their own phones' prices, and PAY wireless carriers to sell their phones through and market Microsoft harder than Android/iOS phones, and try to 'compete' by squandering billions of dollars to get a few million phones into people's hands. Spend, spend, spend, and the very second they STOP spending money, their market share growth will cease, too.

All while Apple EARNS money. Android accounts for 250,000,000 phones being actively used, right now. Apple is something over 100,000,000 iPhones.

If Microsoft bleeds several billions of dollars a year, I'm confident they could sell through and activate several million users a year. It's not all in the phones' prices. It's in convincing companies to carry them, and people to buy 'em. 24/7 advertising adds up. So if Microsoft wants to bleed money on their phones, along side bleeding money for 'bing', they might catch up to Apple in a few years. But they still wouldn't catch up to Android. And that assumes Apple and Google don't react in any way to stomp on Microsoft's head.

Every way Microsoft can bleed is a good thing.

It's OK, Microsoft will just tack the extra money onto the prices for desktop Windows and Office. Collect a higher 'Microsoft Tax' on new PCs, and work ever harder to force-feed Office into every organization at new, more inflated prices.

Microsoft doesn't appear to have the attention span to get its foot in the door and stick it out for several years to become a big player. They'll be hyping 'Windows 9' phones even as the unwanted and unsold 'Windows 8' phones collect dust on retailers' shelves.

And really, this isn't Apple vs. Microsoft. It's Microsoft vs. ANDROID. Every 1% Microsoft gains in market share will be taken directly from Android and RIM. As mentioned before, Apple sells every phone through. They have no problem getting demand for their products, and selling them at those prices.

Microsoft will have all the traction of webOS, plus as large a mountain of cash as Microsoft can afford to burn.

The retail products sold by Microsoft have all cost the same for the past several releases. Office and Windows have all cost the same on retail. In fact, some versions of Office and Windows actually dropped in cost. So I am trying to see this Microsoft Tax you refer to.

Its so unlike the Apple tax...right? Microsoft doesn't charge for service pack updates do they. But Apple does...don't they? Each Mac OS X update has been nothing more than fixes and updates to the UI that can all be done in a service pack for free, yet Apple charges $30.00...for what? Labor? Oh And let's compare Apple's tax. It cost Apple $200 to make any iPhone they sell or less. Yet the cost as much as 4x's as much on retail. I said RETAIL pricing, not subsidized. That is why the carriers are complaining. Obviously you can't count. Typical Android phones even for the best models are $599 average on retail. The carrier is only paying about $300 of that to get you to sign a deal. This versus an iPhone for example the 64GB versions which cost $899 retail where the carriers is is paying $500 of that to get you a lower contract cost.
Oh and lets not go to Mac PC cost vs the exact same computer running equal or better option. for a lower cost. A 17" Macbook which starts at $2499 comes with less than I can get with a fully equipped Envy 17" that has not only more RAM, but has a better screen, better GPU more storage capacity and I still will pay less than $2200 after updating most of the hardware and I get a top of the line version of Windows as well. $2400 for a system that in the RETAIL cost for the same components would pit the laptop at around $1100. Apple. Again sonny, this is based on paying RETAIL pricing for the same exact components. Not OEM pricing...RETAIL.

Microsoft is trying to get back in the game they once owned. But Apple is simply repeating the same thing RIM did, Microsoft did and Nokia. They all thought they could just sit and sell the same crap year after year with very minor to no updates. Then some new platform came along and knocked their butts back to reality. The iPhone has remain unchanged for the past 5 gens. Much like RIM and Nokia devices did, and look what happened to them. The original iPhone was certainly a game-changer, but the rest have been nothing more than cosmetic work. Glad I don't own one anymore.

Apple demands not only a higher subsidized cost, they also require upfront money based on how many devices you order that you think you can sell. Android or Windows Phone don't require such. And look...its cost Nokia the same $200 to make a device yet it they are selling it at nearly what they pay for it to make. Where is the tax???? The phone cost $200 to make yet it was being sold for $99...where is the tax?

Let me show you the tax...8GB of NAND coss about $15 or less on retail. Apple charges $100 for it. 16GB of NAND cost about $25 on retail. Apple charges $100 for it. 32GB of NAND cost about $35 on RETAIL. Apple charges $100 for it. 64GB of NAND cost about $70 RETAIL, Apple charges $100 for it. 8GB of RAM cost about $250 for faster higher spec RAM, while Apple charges $800 for lower spec RAM in their notebooks.

Compare to what Apple Tax is vs Microsoft? The Xbox was sold at a lose for 5 years before it turned a profit. Where is the TAX you claim?

Stop bashing Microsoft if you're not going to equally bash competitors.
Look at the Galaxy Note bro. 5.3" AMOLED screen, a screen that is 100% compatible with a stylus, not a fancy Retina Display that is trying to be the same, higher resolution, better features and capabilities. Look it has 4G too. Where is the 4G toting iPhone? We had 4G phones avail since early 2009. Here we are 3 years alter and iPhone is still 3G. At least with Windows Phone and Android you get up to date specs and features. As much as iPhone costs, it has no 4G, still can't transfer files via BT, The NAND flash is so slow it takes 4 hours just to sync 32GB of data to it, the camera is a one trick pony and always over saturates pics with white, AppleCare+ is way to expensive for a device that breaks easy and has problems regularly. At least Nokia and Microsoft aren't trying to pawn off a phone for $800 that only cost $200 to make. A brand new 900 is only $599 retail. Where is the Tax? It cost $200 to make vs iPhone at $899 retail that cost $200 to make. See the difference

Show me the Microsoft Tax!!! Still spewing your unfounded hatred for everything Microsoft, yet you kiss up to Apple who si far worse today than MS when they were at their worse.

[QUADICON]

AnonymousFriend, on 30 April 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

Evildave, on 29 April 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

Well, you'd have to stop the customers wanting iPhones, I suppose... Somehow.

The wireless companies already have the option to sell all kinds of non-Apple phones. Apple doesn't have a monopoly on anything at all. More Android phones are collectively sold than iPhones.

Apple doesn't run many ads, or lower the price, because extra demand translates directly into outstripped production, and hoarding. Which means filthy hoarders (like ticket scalpers) begin earning the money. They're selling all the phones they can make, as fast as they can make them, for what it costs to make them, plus a reasonable profit.

It's not 'either iPhone or Microsoft'. It's either iPhone, or Android or RIM or webOS or Microsoft or Linux or several other OSs. The wireless companies have plenty of choices, and the Microsoft phones will not be iPhones, any more than Android phones are iPhones, no matter how much Microsoft CLAIMS that theirs are 'better'. Just like they claimed 'Zune' was 'better' than an iPod, too. Before killing Zune.

So Microsoft can PAY to develop and maintain the OS and app stores, PAY to advertise, PAY to produce phones, and PAY to subsidize their own phones' prices, and PAY wireless carriers to sell their phones through and market Microsoft harder than Android/iOS phones, and try to 'compete' by squandering billions of dollars to get a few million phones into people's hands. Spend, spend, spend, and the very second they STOP spending money, their market share growth will cease, too.

All while Apple EARNS money. Android accounts for 250,000,000 phones being actively used, right now. Apple is something over 100,000,000 iPhones.

If Microsoft bleeds several billions of dollars a year, I'm confident they could sell through and activate several million users a year. It's not all in the phones' prices. It's in convincing companies to carry them, and people to buy 'em. 24/7 advertising adds up. So if Microsoft wants to bleed money on their phones, along side bleeding money for 'bing', they might catch up to Apple in a few years. But they still wouldn't catch up to Android. And that assumes Apple and Google don't react in any way to stomp on Microsoft's head.

Every way Microsoft can bleed is a good thing.

It's OK, Microsoft will just tack the extra money onto the prices for desktop Windows and Office. Collect a higher 'Microsoft Tax' on new PCs, and work ever harder to force-feed Office into every organization at new, more inflated prices.

Microsoft doesn't appear to have the attention span to get its foot in the door and stick it out for several years to become a big player. They'll be hyping 'Windows 9' phones even as the unwanted and unsold 'Windows 8' phones collect dust on retailers' shelves.

And really, this isn't Apple vs. Microsoft. It's Microsoft vs. ANDROID. Every 1% Microsoft gains in market share will be taken directly from Android and RIM. As mentioned before, Apple sells every phone through. They have no problem getting demand for their products, and selling them at those prices.

Microsoft will have all the traction of webOS, plus as large a mountain of cash as Microsoft can afford to burn.

"Apple doesn't run many ads.."

Are you being sarcastic? Hope so.

Quite sick of the Apple ads actually.

Apple runs MORE ads for iPhone and iPad than Samsung or Microsoft run for all their products combined.
Here in Chicago, every bus stop that has a shell for people waiting has an Apple ad. Nearly every EL stop (the El is the elevated and subways trains here in Chicago), has an Apple ad. There are countless billboards along the tollways with Apple ads.

There is a company here in a nearby suburb, I can't think of there name; I think its ABT. They have a huge electronic sign that sits next to a major expressway that goes downtown that advertises nothing but the Apple products they sale.

Carriers push the iPhone because their sales people are trained to do so. Why? Because iPhone costs are a heavy toll on carriers to subsidize and they need that investment back. No other device they sell requires a down-payment from carriers based on how many phones they think they can sell, and how much it cost them to subsidize a phone to make it affordable.

Carriers are charging a tax to cover that cost, not because iPhone users are data hogger's, but to supplement that upfront money they all gotta pay. Notice NONE of the carriers ever had tiered plans until they got an iPhone. Facts show Android users consume for more data vs iPhone users. And since Android devices activate at 3x's the pace of iPhone, they are certainly gobbling up more data. Only Android phones have real GPS navigation with Voice capability.

A 64Gb iPhone 4S cost $850 from Apple on retail and Best Buy and the others sell it for $899. In either case, the carrier is subsidizing over $400 in cost in behalf for the person buying it. That is almost 50% more than what any other phone costs to a carrier.

EvilDave needs to crawl from underneath that Microsoft hating rock he lives under and get out into the world of reality. All the Apple fans are so blind to relative facts when they are place in people perspective and not in the distort field they always look at stuff.

Hay Dave...why not ask Apple how they escaped paying 3B in additional taxes by off-shoring most of their money. And yes many corps do it, as I am sure MS does as well. It shouldn't be about what is legal, it should be about what is ethical.


Maybe I should file may income as all business related and move my money off-shore too so i won't have to pay a single dime in taxes. Apple saves all this money, yet they charge you as much as 5x's for products vs similar devices.

Apple is no less greedy than any other corporation you seem to hate, yet you show near death love for Apple who is equally a salve-driven, greedy, monopolistic entity as any other shill corp.

This post has been edited by QUADICON: 30 April 2012 - 08:45 AM