[RickDobbelmannqbtt]

Hemo2, on 30 April 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

Yes, it is about the apps. There's not a single Linux app that I need or want and all the apps I need or want are Windows based. Linux apps are always referred to as 'alternatives' and never have the full functionality of their Windows couterparts, so it's a no brainer. It would be a complete waste of time for me to bother with Linux.

HAHAHA really?


lol

what an silly comment to make.

Comming from a web developer, software developer, graphic artist, trained in C#, VB.Net, ASP.Net, all using Microsoft visual studio, also SQL Server, Adobe dreamweaver and photoshop and many many more.

I have not had the need, ONCE, to ever use a Microsoft or Adobe program scince switching to Linux full time in early 2010. (ubuntu 10.04)

I have found "alternatives" that are just as good if not superior to Microsoft and Adobe products.

And I didnt pay a freaking DIME for them!!! (although I have donated to several projects)

This post has been edited by RickDobbelmannqbtt: 30 April 2012 - 12:13 PM

[melgross]

Watcher426, on 30 April 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

while some valid points are made, I find it humorous when "experts" predict why Linux is flopping and why it has "less than 1% market share" If these people did real research about Linux and Unix, they'd see that it is easily 1/3 of all windows sales. Countless people dual boot and since one does not really purchases linux, they can't measure that either. millions use it so it is not 1%.

It's amusing that you should think that so many downloads have been done. First of all, there is no way to track any of that, so you shouldn't be making up numbers. Secondly, from my own long experience in this, I've found that most people who do download it, such as myself, do so out of curiosity, and remove it from their machines shortly after. We then do so again after another major upgrade comes out.

I've met very few people over the years who actually use it. This is true for companies as well.

The well publicized project in Germany a few years ago was abandoned. IBM attempted it, but found few takers within their company.

Desktop Linux is a bust.

[jschuhr]

Overall, I'm not troubled by this article; it's mostly fair but I think there are some gaps that need filling in.

/////
For example, the Dell Latitude 2120 with Windows 7 Home Premium is $494, while a similarly-loaded Ubuntu Latitude 2120 is $434 -- a savings of just $50.
/////

You're citing an example of being cheated by Dell. Nothing to see here.

/////
In addition, the free versions of Linux are only supported with free fixes for about a year
/////

Ubuntu 12.04 LTS is supported for five years.

/////
Even vendors that do offer extended security fixes for Linux, like Novell or Red Hat, they're going to charge every year for the privilege.
/////

Only if you want to pay for help and only "as needed". With M$, you don't get have a choice - you pay up front.

/////
So if I have 10,000 users, and 1,000 applications, 500 of those applications will need Windows to run.
/////

This is a case-by-case ratio and largely driven by artificial factors such as laziness to research options instead of just assuming you _need_ some Windows-only application.

I'd also like to point out that as a software developer of web-based applications, using Windows has made my life difficult. It's frustrating trying to get certain otherwise stable technologies to run on Windows, because they've been "ported" to native Win32 binaries or are forced to run in a Cygwin environment. Compromise goes both ways - it just depends on what you're trying to do.

/////
"It's such a flexible environment that there's a lot of freedom to do things, even things you shouldn't do," he says. "A typical thing in a Windows setting is to establish some usage policies, and set up some limitations on the systems to keep them stable. Linux doesn't have those types of standards out of the box."
/////

If this is true for your current setup, you must have gone out of your way to create the problem; you shouldn't be creating user accounts with Admin rights by default.

[RickDobbelmannqbtt]

melgross, on 30 April 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

Watcher426, on 30 April 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

while some valid points are made, I find it humorous when "experts" predict why Linux is flopping and why it has "less than 1% market share" If these people did real research about Linux and Unix, they'd see that it is easily 1/3 of all windows sales. Countless people dual boot and since one does not really purchases linux, they can't measure that either. millions use it so it is not 1%.

It's amusing that you should think that so many downloads have been done. First of all, there is no way to track any of that, so you shouldn't be making up numbers. Secondly, from my own long experience in this, I've found that most people who do download it, such as myself, do so out of curiosity, and remove it from their machines shortly after. We then do so again after another major upgrade comes out.

I've met very few people over the years who actually use it. This is true for companies as well.

The well publicized project in Germany a few years ago was abandoned. IBM attempted it, but found few takers within their company.

Desktop Linux is a bust.

http://manilastandar...e-1-linux-myth/


http://www-03.ibm.com/linux/

http://public.dhe.ib...XB03001USEN.PDF

http://www.focus.com...ght-not-expect/

This post has been edited by RickDobbelmannqbtt: 30 April 2012 - 12:25 PM

[CannibalCat]

I don't know where these "experts" come from, but I install and configure various versions of Windows and Linux on a daily basis. I can tell you that almost without exception the newest versions of Linux are faster and easier to configure (and to use, considering the sweeping changes involved in the latest versions of Windows). As for "cost" Free vs. $50 for Windows Basic, but what about more advanced versions?
Not to mention the added after market Windows costs (Anti-virus, MS Office, etc.)?
The ONLY thing keeping Linux from hitting the same market share (or more) as Apple's OSX is third party software... mainly games.
Linux comes with only one real setback other than games and that's 'Linux Phobia' where people hear Linux and assume it's hard to use or only for computer geeks.
I invited my boss over last week and he was playing with my Ubuntu 11.04 (with the classic GUI enabled) and didn't even realize it wasn't Windows until I mentioned it.
In fact I've seen others actually change their desktops to closely resemble Windows 7 or XP and those none-the wiser just assumed it WAS windows.
Linux does what an OS is supposed to do: Be invisible and just allow users to run programs.
Once Activision, Electronic Arts, et al, start making games for Linux, Microsoft will go down in market share like the Titanic.

[trangthetroll]

the word "FLOP" is a bad choice in the first place.

Unix/Linux desktops are everywhere. Corporate america isn't the sole measuring stick for desktop numbers. Colleges, Secondary schools, Government, Consumers are a large part of the equation.

I use Fedora 16 and Windows 7 side by side. I maintain windows for gaming, Slowly migrating them to linux. I use my linux machine for everything else.

[wikerone]

Watcher426, on 30 April 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

while some valid points are made, I find it humorous when "experts" predict why Linux is flopping and why it has "less than 1% market share" If these people did real research about Linux and Unix, they'd see that it is easily 1/3 of all windows sales. Countless people dual boot and since one does not really purchases linux, they can't measure that either. millions use it so it is not 1%.

Perhaps this is the link they're looking for? Looks to me like it's in the billions, not millions worldwide!
2008-04-03: Brazil, India, and China, which together count for more than a third of the world's population, all voted against Office Open XML last week.
Address : <http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/productivity_apps/207001577?_requestid=118181>

[HankRearden]

nonseq, on 30 April 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

Watcher426, on 30 April 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

while some valid points are made, I find it humorous when "experts" predict why Linux is flopping and why it has "less than 1% market share" If these people did real research about Linux and Unix, they'd see that it is easily 1/3 of all windows sales. Countless people dual boot and since one does not really purchases linux, they can't measure that either. millions use it so it is not 1%.

Why don't you post some links demonstrating your claim? I would appreciate it and I'm sure that others would as well. However, if you insist that we "google it" ourselves, it casts a read shadow of incredulity on your claim. Thanks

Part of the problem is that since you can download a distribution and install it as many times as you want and as often as you want, there is no really good way to account for this. I'm in that same situation Watcher mentions. I have 4 Linux machines and no one knows this. I bought the machines with Windows installed. And after that purchase I reformatted them with Linux. In some cases when I build a PC from parts I buy at Central Computer, my local DIY shop, I'm merely buying parts in their eyes. And when it comes to adding an OS, I'm adding Linux. So that can't be counted at all.

Best they can do is count web traffic, but I don't think that really tells the whole story. It's a good indicator, but I the whole method of counting installs in geared towards counting purchases, which is simply not compatible with the Linux model. For this reason alone I don't put a lot of stock in any comments made of the Linux marketshare. It's simply an unknowable quantity.

[Evildave]

That's MICROSOFT, and their own, proprietary, bent version of OpenDocument. Another example of a long list of standards Microsoft has 'adopted', in order to destroy.

Always be specific, and mention MICROSOFT, when saying 'Office'.

It's interesting that Russia (who adopted LINUX for its government systems) would give Microsoft's format a nod. Sort of like owning a diesel car and voting for adding ethanol and water to gasoline.

[HankRearden]

nonseq, on 30 April 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

IanHolton, on 30 April 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

If Linux is a flop then apple desktop must be a massive flop with all the momemtum behind it and it's still allegedly 5-10% of desktop usage depending on who you ask. In the end for me Linux has been a great success. I enjoy my computer which has run for years no problems. Seriosly I have never had a software failure in years I am a average user who came from windows becuase I was fed up with software failure. My Daughter has just brought a Windows 7 laptop and asked me to set it up, connect it to our network and printer. The printer is wireless two or three clicks to install in Linux. Windows 7 failed to find the driver I had to manually download the driver and am having issues still getting it to install. That's a flop as far as I'm concerned.

Hmm Linux available for 21 years and still 1.4% of the desktop. Apple's percentage has grown along with customer satisfaction, and profits. Apple seems to be meeting and exceeding its goals while the nature of linux and Open Source eliminates goals.

I've come to the conclusion that Linux is a very fine OS but is hampered- almost to extinction by the GNU/linux license. That's only my opinion but I think that Linux could have much larger market share almost overnight by developing some sort of hybrid proprietary/Open Source model- especially for developing sophisticated and professional applications that will meet and exceed consumer standards.

Another good point the article makes is that switching, even to a free OS, has a cost to it. Retraining employees, etc. Plus I've personally experienced the same issues raised in the article. GIMP doesn't cut the mustard when're Photoshop is needed. I thought at one point to use Inkwell, GIMP and a page layout app I forget what it is called. None of them worked for me. Libre Office is good enough I think for any business not using Marcos, or doing anything too complicated. It filled my needs just as well as Office does, except where Outlook is concerned. Evolution, which many distributions seem to love is the worst email client on the planet. No way I would use that day to day. Thunderbird is okay for personal, but not ideal and not as good as Outlook for exchange. I think Microsoft pretty much has corporate email in their back pocket. The new Apple Mail client in Lion is great. I could easily use that for business, but they need to allow more flag colors and follow up reminders with due dates that can due dates that then becomes tasks in Reminder. Apple Mail is getting close.

I think the average college student or home user should have no trouble with Linux. Good free productivity apps, nice games, free OS. Much better than what my Commodore 64 offered and that's what I used in school. Later I used an Amiga with Word Perfect 4.01. To me that was a killer app. But when going corporate I find I need other tools.

On Windows, Office, Project, Visio or on Mac, Office Mac, FastTrack, OmniGraffle. And either of those platforms needs Adobe creative suite. Also lots of specialized apps are needed. Some on Windows, some on Mac. I can't switch to Linux 100%. I couldn't even switch to Windows 100%. In fact, I can't use Macs 100%. I need both Windows and Macs. Linux I just like, but it doesn't have a real need for me right now. I just appreciate what the OpenSource community is doing. I like knowing I have an OS I can install when I want without having to worry about activation issues or software. Linux is a good thing to have in your corner for when you need it. Glad it's there.

[Evildave]

Switching from XP to Windoze 7 needed 'retraining', as will Windoze 8 require 'retraining'.

Always with the shuffling and the 'new scripting' and the 'new technology' that's really something someone else invented that they've decided to steal.

Microsoft is nothing, if not particularly inconsistent with their UI.

In the end, the users click on stuff, and fumble through it.

[ricegf]

Michael Silver, an analyst with Stamford, Conn.-based Gartner, is quoted as saying, "You have to switch to the new version of Linux every year."

Are all Gartner analysts this... wrong?

Once he learns to use this newfangled Internet thingy, he'll discover that "Starting with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, LTS releases will be supported for 5 years on both the desktop and the server." (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases)

Do I smell someone with an agenda?

[Evildave]

Nah, just someone who's paid to support Micro$uck's monopoly.

[waldojim]

The only thing I want to weigh in on here is the authors ridiculous comparison of Androids success. He does realize the differences right? Lets see here:
Android: A newish OS with a single company developing it. It is running applications through a hacked up java interpreter. It is also competing against a single companies product - APPLE. Microsofts own product has been so terrible that it is fits in the "other" category when talking marketshare. In other words, there is absolutely no competition on non-Apple hardware.

Then there is the Desktop: Where Linux is maintained by dozens of companies, each with different goals, and very different target audiences. They have much more hardware to deal with. They also have 30 years worth of ingrained competition.

Does anyone else see the problem with this?

Androids success proves nothing regarding Linux. Android is as much Linux as OS-X is BSD. In other words - the roots are there, and nothing more.

[LinuxBookPro]

You don't have to upgrade every year. There are plenty of Long Term Support distros out there.

I have a bad feeling the writer of this story is also still using IE 6 to surf the web. *Nuff Said*

[LinuxBookPro]

LinuxBookPro, on 30 April 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

You don't have to upgrade every year. There are plenty of Long Term Support distros out there.

I have a bad feeling the writer of this story is also still using IE 6 to surf the web. *Nuff Said*

I should mention that tomorrow another PCWorld staffer will write a rebuttal to this story. I'm convinced they're trolling us.

[harrismh777]

Hi folks,

Silly.

The presumption of the question is just silly.

I have not used Microsoft systems (nor products) for more than a decade. All of my family members use ubuntu, and I have several machines running different flavors of opensuse, ubuntu, blag, trisquel, and mint.

Flop?

What did you put in your ice tea bubba?

Cheers

[waldojim]

harrismh777, on 30 April 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

Hi folks,

Silly.

The presumption of the question is just silly.

I have not used Microsoft systems (nor products) for more than a decade. All of my family members use ubuntu, and I have several machines running different flavors of opensuse, ubuntu, blag, trisquel, and mint.

Flop?

What did you put in your ice tea bubba?

Cheers

Linux most certainly is a flop (as it stands) depending on how you view things. How many laptops ship with Linux? How many others ship with hardware that is compatible? Can you buy a single Linux based PC at Best Buy, Micro Center, or Fry's? Right now the answer to the first and last question is none. The second question is answered best with "I dunno". Because it is darned near impossible to tell (up front) just how compatible a machine will be. My wifes Z575 is about 99%, only issues being power management. That is a big issue btw. A 3 hour battery life cut down to 1 does not make for a happy wife. My w520 is all over the place depending on the distro. Everything from broken network cards (either wifi or wired, or even both), to non-functioning Nvidia Optimus, to battery life from hell, to broken mouse touchpad drivers. My last well supported laptop was a Lenovo X100e. It could manage 4 hours in Linux (6 in Windows btw) and everything worked OOTB. But that is one in 3 that was well supported.

So how can one NOT consider Linux a flop? Sure it is free. Sure you can run it on darned near anything - if you can live with random parts not working. Yes I realize that so many people are in it just to get away from Microsoft - as they seem to be under the impression that MS should be a charity organization. That doesn't change the fact that for most users, Linux is still a far cry from set-and-forget.

[linuxrants7xpg]

waldojim, on 30 April 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Linux most certainly is a flop (as it stands) depending on how you view things.

Hm, let's look at things objectively. There's an OS and it runs perfectly on less than 10% of the computers out there. The rest of them, you might be able to get it to work if you tinker enough and dig around in command lines and special scripts. It's game support is abysmal, and enterprise penetration barely registers on the scale. It lacks the software support that Windows has. It has some mainstream applications, but the rest you have to find alternatives for which depending on who you ask are just never as good as what Windows has. It's interface is really different from Windows. True, most people could figure it out pretty easily, but why should they have to? Yep, it's easy to see why such an OS has only managed to acquire single digit market share despite being available for decades. OSX is a total flop on the desktop.

[waldojim]

linuxrants7xpg, on 01 May 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

waldojim, on 30 April 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Linux most certainly is a flop (as it stands) depending on how you view things.

Hm, let's look at things objectively. There's an OS and it runs perfectly on less than 10% of the computers out there. The rest of them, you might be able to get it to work if you tinker enough and dig around in command lines and special scripts. It's game support is abysmal, and enterprise penetration barely registers on the scale. It lacks the software support that Windows has. It has some mainstream applications, but the rest you have to find alternatives for which depending on who you ask are just never as good as what Windows has. It's interface is really different from Windows. True, most people could figure it out pretty easily, but why should they have to? Yep, it's easy to see why such an OS has only managed to acquire single digit market share despite being available for decades. OSX is a total flop on the desktop.

Isn't it? At less than 5% for 30 years now, how is it not a flop as well? (apple computers that is - not just the current OS-X iteration)

The only reason it is gaining traction right now is because it is "in" to hate MS. That, and Apple finally managed to get their machines sold in more than just Apple stores.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 01 May 2012 - 12:46 AM