[DataProtection]

I will buy a new computer, But I don't know whether should I get a Mac or usual PC. My last one was a Mac but once I lost all of my important data and didn't get them back. And now, I want some suggestions about my new computer.

[LiveBrianD]

I vote for Windows - there are a lot more options, more software for them (for instance, MS Office is better on Windows than on mac in my opinion), and they tend to be cheaper. Besides, best of all, you can build your own Windows machine - can you do that with a Mac?

[Evildave]

LibreOffice works fine on any platform.

WHATEVER YOU DECIDE: Buy a 'time capsule' (or NAS, or external USB hard drive) this time. You should be backing up your data. This is not optional. It never has been, and people continue to learn this the hard way, just as you apparently have.

Really, this boils down to what you want. Maybe save some money and get a Linux notebook.

Don't do anything but browse the web and play casual games? Buy a chromebook. Maybe even a tablet.

Want a really pretty, really portable notebook? Buy Macbook Air.

Want to play games with it, and don't care that it's tethered to an AC outlet and can't be kept on your lap because it's too hot to touch? Buy a typical windoze notebook.

You won't save much money on an 'ultrabook', but they're available.

If you're already used to the keyboard layout and stuff, stick with Mac.

If you want a desktop, you can certainly buy cheap windoze boxes. But the 27" 2560x1440 iMac comes with an awfully nice monitor, along with the computer. Pricing the monitors with matching specs, the computer built into it is dirt cheap.

There are 'all in one' windoze computers that ape the iMac, too.

Whatever you want. More details about what you plan to do with it would help.

If you do buy Mac (other than MBA), buy the RAM seperately. They want a king's ransom for it. Just get the minimum amount and order the max for it, separately, if you want more. Same goes for most windoze PCs and their online configurators, too.

[waldojim]

Is there actually a reason to give up on Mac? If you have no valid reasons to switch platforms, then don't. If for some reason you just want to tinker with Windows, get a mac and install windows via bootcamp. If you just won't want to work with the Apple/Mac platform anymore, then switch and enjoy.

[LiveBrianD]

Firstly, most laptops are only available with Windows installed, so even if you install linux on it yourself, you're still not saving any money. Also, WHY would you buy a chromebook? Those can run the chrome web browser... and nothing else. I definitely prefer my $450 thinkpad x120e (AMD E350, 4GB RAM) to the chromebooks available, and they cost around the same amount too (you can get a decent computer for $300, the newer x130e starts at $400).

Most Windows laptops are NOT too hot to touch and tethered to an ac outlet. Sure, a desktop replacement one might be. But with most of them, that simply isn't true. For instance, my x120e gets a little warm at times, but it's definitely tolerable.

Also, keep in mind that a lot of ultrabooks are just as good as the macbook air (which you're recommending here), and have a similar price. Why do you recommend one but not the other? If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. (except that that duck is better because of the logo)

Also, not everyone wants to spend $1200 on an imac, even if it does have an i5 CPU, ati 6750M, and 21.5" screen. Some just want upgradable, tweakable, modable systems (most, if not all, of the regulars on this forum that is). Also, it's much harder to replace components in all-in-ones if something fails, and stuff tends to be proprietary in them. (after all, they're basically just laptops behind a screen with no battery)

[Evildave]

Seems like there are MANY sources where you can get Linux preconfigured.
http://www.system76.com/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
http://linpc.us/
https://www.thinkpenguin.com/
http://zareason.com/shop/home.php
http://h10010.www1.h...7331.html?dnr=1
http://search.dell.c...ref=ac&x=11&y=9

Don't tell us what 'not everyone wants'. All that matters is what 'DataProtection' wants.

And 'just as good' as a mac? Yeah, sure. Tell yourself whatever you like. They run Micro$uck Windoze, which is several strikes against them. 'A crap sandwich is just as good as a steak dinner.' Whatever.

With a notebook, a long battery runtime, cool to the touch. Macbooks are solid as a brick, which they are: milled from a solid ingot of aluminum. Not just shabby plastic and stamped junk that falls apart.

Most pre-built boxed PCs either come from 'joe nobody' as a builder, with those 'standard' parts you love (minimum specs from gods-only-know-where), or come from a 'big' manufacturer, like Dell or HP with 'nonstandard' parts built to order for their factories. Usually all-in-one motherboard, at that.

All portables, without exception, are made from similarly 'custom' parts.

If you get a beige box made of 'standard parts' from joe nobody's garage, you're volunteering for the support merry-go-round where OEM blames Microsoft blames OEM, and your 'builder' is long gone, or no help. At least with an Apple, all complaints can go to Apple. You can get years of 'Apple Care', if you want it. They'll fix whatever breaks. Just carry it to them and complain.

Sure, you'd like a box that you can stir around the parts and play 'hobbyist' with. Fine.

Other people just want their computer to WORK. Reliably. First time, every time.

[waldojim]

Evildave, on 02 May 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Seems like there are MANY sources where you can get Linux preconfigured.
http://www.system76.com/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
http://linpc.us/
https://www.thinkpenguin.com/
http://zareason.com/shop/home.php
http://h10010.www1.h...7331.html?dnr=1
http://search.dell.c...ref=ac&x=11&y=9

Most of those are buying laptops at retail, and installing Linux themselves. It is cheaper to buy your own in most of those cases, and install Linux yourself.

[LiveBrianD]

Evildave: Obviously, a bottom of the barrel $400 laptop won't match the quality of a $1000 macbook. For the price, what are you expecting? Spend $1000 on a thinkpad, and you'll get a high quality, durable as hell machine.

Also, gee, are the components in a macbook or imac standard? Of course not. And are the ones in a mac pro? Probably so, but who has $2.5K to spare? (and that doesn't even get you a very good machine, considering the price - 2.8GHz quad Xeon - Nehalem, last gen, only 3GB RAM, and an ati 5770)

Also, the kinds of people who have whitebox computers are geeks who like building them themselves and know how to fix things. The others buy regular OEM systems, and get to enjoy the variety to pick from. Also, my whitebox computer that I built myself works just fine, every time. Your point is?

[Evildave]

waldojim, on 02 May 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Evildave, on 02 May 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Seems like there are MANY sources where you can get Linux preconfigured.
http://www.system76.com/
http://www.linuxcertified.com/
http://www.emperorlinux.com/
http://linpc.us/
https://www.thinkpenguin.com/
http://zareason.com/shop/home.php
http://h10010.www1.h...7331.html?dnr=1
http://search.dell.c...ref=ac&x=11&y=9

Most of those are buying laptops at retail, and installing Linux themselves. It is cheaper to buy your own in most of those cases, and install Linux yourself.

WOW. You think that they pay FULL RETAIL for notebooks with windoze on them to resell them at a loss? Brilliant, WaldoJim. Especially Dell & HP.

That's the only business model that you could figure out for yourself?

Actually, the same Taiwan or China made notebooks are typically sold under MANY brands. They buy 'em wholesale, and they're pre-configured and boxed in the factory, or configured and reboxed when the stors gets them, before re-boxing and shipping them to the customer.

In these cases, they're ordering lots of 'n' computers that are Linux compatible, either with the OS written on the drives from their own supplied image in the factory, or they put the OS on the drives in the 'barebones' machines, themselves. It's not rocket science.

[Evildave]

LiveBrianD, on 03 May 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Evildave: Obviously, a bottom of the barrel $400 laptop won't match the quality of a $1000 macbook. For the price, what are you expecting? Spend $1000 on a thinkpad, and you'll get a high quality, durable as hell machine.

Also, gee, are the components in a macbook or imac standard? Of course not. And are the ones in a mac pro? Probably so, but who has $2.5K to spare? (and that doesn't even get you a very good machine, considering the price - 2.8GHz quad Xeon - Nehalem, last gen, only 3GB RAM, and an ati 5770)

Also, the kinds of people who have whitebox computers are geeks who like building them themselves and know how to fix things. The others buy regular OEM systems, and get to enjoy the variety to pick from. Also, my whitebox computer that I built myself works just fine, every time. Your point is?

Well, there's your problem: You windoze fans always want to compare the bottom-of-the-barrel prices with OS X for price, and the top-of-the-line, most expensive systems for the features.

Your own PC works fine? Good for you! Here's some hand-crafted smilies to show how proud you should be, and how impressed I am:

My eight year old nephew built a castle out of lego blocks. From a kit with pictures showing how to build a castle with lego blocks. He's just as proud.

[DataProtection]

what about on the side of data protection?

[LiveBrianD]

Evildave, on 03 May 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Well, there's your problem: You windoze fans always want to compare the bottom-of-the-barrel prices with OS X for price, and the top-of-the-line, most expensive systems for the features.

And what are you doing? Comparing macs that cost $1K or more to a cheap bottom-of-the-line Windows system. Of course the Windows system will be a POS in comparison.

[Evildave]

LiveBrianD, on 04 May 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

... Of course the Windows system will be a POS in comparison.

Naturally, since even the base-of-the-best, 'top of the line' windoze machines are all excremental, in comparison. They run windoze, after all.

As far as data protection, Apple's 'Time Machine' (built in) + NAS (e.g. a 'Time Capsule') will equal the best data protection available. Because you can just set it and forget it.

Microsoft thinks that backup to a network is a 'premium' feature, meaning add $100 to $200 to the price of a windoze machine to support that with their backup, or get some third party software, and keep adding to the clunkiness of the solution.

[LiveBrianD]

Seriously, have you actually used a Windows system lately, particularly one that's the same price as a Mac? What I've found is that Windows seems to work better than OS X, though that's a matter of opinion.

Also, on windows, you can get a cheap external hard drive and back up using the windows backup tool that way.


Hey Brian, I have edited you post. We do not tell people to shut up around here.

This post has been edited by coastie65: 06 May 2012 - 04:31 AM
Reason for edit: Edited out a potentially inflammaory statement

[waldojim]

Evildave, on 03 May 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

WOW. You think that they pay FULL RETAIL for notebooks with windoze on them to resell them at a loss? Brilliant, WaldoJim. Especially Dell & HP.

That's the only business model that you could figure out for yourself?

Actually, the same Taiwan or China made notebooks are typically sold under MANY brands. They buy 'em wholesale, and they're pre-configured and boxed in the factory, or configured and reboxed when the stors gets them, before re-boxing and shipping them to the customer.

In these cases, they're ordering lots of 'n' computers that are Linux compatible, either with the OS written on the drives from their own supplied image in the factory, or they put the OS on the drives in the 'barebones' machines, themselves. It's not rocket science.

You have apparently never priced them. When they cost $200 more than retail, it sure as heck makes you wonder.

[Evildave]

Retail... what? Show me a 'windoze' version of the same Linux models that's $200 cheaper. Though I would certainly admit that Dell/HP won't do you any favors with the pricing for a 'custom' system.

[Evildave]

LiveBrianD, on 04 May 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Seriously, have you actually used a Windows system lately, particularly one that's the same price as a Mac? If not, please shut up. What I've found is that Windows seems to work better than OS X, though that's a matter of opinion.

Also, on windows, you can get a cheap external hard drive and back up using the windows backup tool that way.

'Please Shut Up'? [-1] for that. Actually, I do routinely boot up windoze VMs of various versions. It is my opinion that windoze sucks. Live with it.

Yes, you can get an external USB drive, rather than NAS. But it is less convenient, transparent, etc. than the NAS (especially as Time Machine), and far less convenient for a household with more than one computer to back up.

[LiveBrianD]

Evildave, on 04 May 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 04 May 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Seriously, have you actually used a Windows system lately, particularly one that's the same price as a Mac? If not, please shut up. What I've found is that Windows seems to work better than OS X, though that's a matter of opinion.

Also, on windows, you can get a cheap external hard drive and back up using the windows backup tool that way.

'Please Shut Up'? [-1] for that. Actually, I do routinely boot up windoze VMs of various versions. It is my opinion that windoze sucks. Live with it.

Yes, you can get an external USB drive, rather than NAS. But it is less convenient, transparent, etc. than the NAS (especially as Time Machine), and far less convenient for a household with more than one computer to back up.

How exactly does it not work well? I've been using Windows for years and still haven't found an OS that beats it. OS X isn't great in some aspects (for instance, I find app switching to be a bit awkward there compared to windows or linux, and you have limited upgrade options on most of the hardware), and linux can be a PITA at times when installing drivers and stuff, and Windows... just... works (ok, not 100% of the time, but more so than the alternatives). Even Vista is good in comparison to the alternatives in some ways. If there was an alternative that I found to work particularly well (and worked on all x86 hardware, not just ones with a specific TPM chip), I would've switched by now.

Now yes, if you're comparing a $400 Windows laptop to a $1000 mac one, well, yes, of course the mac will be better. Have you tried Windows on any decent physical hardware? (I run OSes in vms sometimes and have found that Win7 is definitely a little slow in a VM, though it's pretty snappy on the host.). What are the exact issues you have with it?

Granted, yes, backups aren't as good on Windows. Still, I don't find it an issue at all. I keep an external hard drive sitting on top of my desktop, out of sight and out of mind, and run backups on it weekly (I do the same for my laptop every now and then, since I don't use it as often as the desktop).

Anyway, if you're going to start a flame war, it ought to be in another thread, not in the OP's thread. 'Nuff said. If you're not going to be helpful, I'm going to ignore you.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 04 May 2012 - 05:41 PM

[Evildave]

(LiveBrianD: Well, since you're not the one asking for advice, and all you have to offer ARE flames, then yes, please do 'ignore' me. This is for 'DataProtection', not you.)

Another way OS X (Lion) 'protects' data is the newer 'versions' thing, but only in software written (or updated) to support it. So like local backups and snapshots of your work, as you work on it. A relatively small protection, and external backups aren't rendered 'unnecessary', just because it's keeping more versions on the same drive.

You can encrypt your home folder, meaning that someone that grabs your portable won't be able to access your 'stuff' without your user password. Certain latter day 'editions' of windoze supports this, too, but not the 'home' editions that come with 99% of windows systems. Like NAS backup, it's considered a 'premium' feature for you to 'upgrade' to.

In fact, the amount of stuff your 'home' editions of Windows 7 DO NOT HAVE is frankly staggering.
http://en.wikipedia....dows_7_editions

But to be fair, most Windows users want a toy OS for their toy computer to play games with. They're not out to accomplish anything.

[waldojim]

Evildave, on 04 May 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

Retail... what? Show me a 'windoze' version of the same Linux models that's $200 cheaper. Though I would certainly admit that Dell/HP won't do you any favors with the pricing for a 'custom' system.

You mean, like Emperor Linux's Rhino

Quote

Our Dell-based Rhino M4600 system

The machine that STARTS at DOUBLE the Dell direct price? Yep, that certainly comes out cheaper doesn't it? Rhino i3 with 2GB ram - $1280. Brand new Dell E6520 - i3, 2GB ram - $699.

Yep, that extra $600 must pay for the return of the Windows license, the Windows servier license needed to mirror the Linux image, RedHat Enterprise Desktop (just because), and then they just give up and give you Ubuntu so you don't feel bad.