[waldojim]

Well, the WRV210 small business router turned out to be slightly better than the usual junk, but still ended up dying in strange ways. It started with low throughput, then random disconnects(not just wireless, but wired too!). At some point it refused to accept IP's from the router.

So, after many hours of searching, I found THE replacement of replacements. First, a bit of humor for you: I went to CompUSA, and the rep there was kind enough to admit that even the Netgear "ULTIMATE" router wasn't about to survive any better than the WVR210. He then referred me to Fry's to look for a true business router. Fry's tried to sell me the latest update to the WRV210, the wrvs4400N. Needless to say, I passed on that crap. Later, I found myself at MicroCenter waiting an eternity to find a rep there - namely so I could LOCATE all of the equipment, not that it was spread over 4 different walls or anything... If you ask them for help, be prepared for the dumb answer "Oh you don't want that, I have something that is TONS better, right over here!" Dude, that is a cheap Cisco consumer grade POS. "But, it's fast." I don't care, I want something that will last more than 2 years, that POS might make 6 months.

Anyhow, that was where I found the Netgear ProSafe SRXN3205-100. First guys, this sucker is expensive. MicroCenter was wanting $340 for this sucker! Though, I did convince them to price match WALMART/BestBuy/Amazon - at $248. Yes Walmart sells these (online only). Now then, a moment of bluntness - I do NOT own any equipment that can truly take advantage of the new router. Yes it supports true 3x3MiMo and dual bands. None of my gear is 3x3 or dual band. Now, the antenna on here freaking kick butt - from one end of our home to the other, I register NO weakness in signal strength on my laptop, phone, or the wifes tablet.

It is fast, of course, but I don't have any hard numbers yet. Interestingly, this was also the easiest installation I have had to deal with. Plugged in, and followed directions for power on sequence. When done, all was good. Then I logged into the web interface, added wifi security keys, and away I went.

At this point, I have to say - highly recommended.

[Rommel]

waldojim, on 23 May 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

Well, the WRV210 small business router turned out to be slightly better than the usual junk, but still ended up dying in strange ways. It started with low throughput, then random disconnects(not just wireless, but wired too!). At some point it refused to accept IP's from the router.

So, after many hours of searching, I found THE replacement of replacements. First, a bit of humor for you: I went to CompUSA, and the rep there was kind enough to admit that even the Netgear "ULTIMATE" router wasn't about to survive any better than the WVR210. He then referred me to Fry's to look for a true business router. Fry's tried to sell me the latest update to the WRV210, the wrvs4400N. Needless to say, I passed on that crap. Later, I found myself at MicroCenter waiting an eternity to find a rep there - namely so I could LOCATE all of the equipment, not that it was spread over 4 different walls or anything... If you ask them for help, be prepared for the dumb answer "Oh you don't want that, I have something that is TONS better, right over here!" Dude, that is a cheap Cisco consumer grade POS. "But, it's fast." I don't care, I want something that will last more than 2 years, that POS might make 6 months.

Anyhow, that was where I found the Netgear ProSafe SRXN3205-100. First guys, this sucker is expensive. MicroCenter was wanting $340 for this sucker! Though, I did convince them to price match WALMART/BestBuy/Amazon - at $248. Yes Walmart sells these (online only). Now then, a moment of bluntness - I do NOT own any equipment that can truly take advantage of the new router. Yes it supports true 3x3MiMo and dual bands. None of my gear is 3x3 or dual band. Now, the antenna on here freaking kick butt - from one end of our home to the other, I register NO weakness in signal strength on my laptop, phone, or the wifes tablet.

It is fast, of course, but I don't have any hard numbers yet. Interestingly, this was also the easiest installation I have had to deal with. Plugged in, and followed directions for power on sequence. When done, all was good. Then I logged into the web interface, added wifi security keys, and away I went.

At this point, I have to say - highly recommended.

LOL, what an adventure.
This shows how important it is to know your products and not be swayed.
That was great they matched the online price at walmart.

Now go out and buy equipment that will let you use that thing to max potential.

[mjd420nova]

But, But, Isn't that the way it works?? Anything you buy today is yards ahead of the hardware it's going to support? Interfaces are just as prolific with old, outdated connectors and outboard front panel connections. My old videocapture withUSB interface, worked fine under WINXPPRO but refused operation on Vista and WIN7 reports "unsupported hardware" errors. Have to buy one to support the OS, and what happens when I want to move to WIN8?? Same thing, I'm sure. It's a never ending Circle but an adventure as well. I sure can't afford a $200. router and balked at having to buy my own DSL modem when AT&T's free POS took trip to the di-section table. It wasn't that cheap but I got three years out of the freebie and their tech was amazed it lasted that long. No wonder it was free.

[LiveBrianD]

Hmm... I used a free AT&T DSL modem for more than half a decade and it still works. (I stopped using it when I switched to cable internet.) The dlink router I was using for a while still works too (many years on that), though the 5V power supply died after a few years. (I ran it off a spare power supply I had for a few days while I ordered a new one - it's one of those ones that has a bunch of voltage selections on it, and I mainly use it for other things.)

[waldojim]

mjd420nova, on 23 May 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

But, But, Isn't that the way it works?? Anything you buy today is yards ahead of the hardware it's going to support? Interfaces are just as prolific with old, outdated connectors and outboard front panel connections. My old videocapture withUSB interface, worked fine under WINXPPRO but refused operation on Vista and WIN7 reports "unsupported hardware" errors. Have to buy one to support the OS, and what happens when I want to move to WIN8?? Same thing, I'm sure. It's a never ending Circle but an adventure as well. I sure can't afford a $200. router and balked at having to buy my own DSL modem when AT&T's free POS took trip to the di-section table. It wasn't that cheap but I got three years out of the freebie and their tech was amazed it lasted that long. No wonder it was free.

I have to view it like this: I can either spend $250 on a router that will (hopefully) last for many years, OR pay $120 every two years in Cisco SB routers, OR spend $50 EVERY year on cheap junk. I am hoping that this $250 is the LAST $$$$ spent on routers for many years.

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 23 May 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

Hmm... I used a free AT&T DSL modem for more than half a decade and it still works. (I stopped using it when I switched to cable internet.) The dlink router I was using for a while still works too (many years on that), though the 5V power supply died after a few years. (I ran it off a spare power supply I had for a few days while I ordered a new one - it's one of those ones that has a bunch of voltage selections on it, and I mainly use it for other things.)

You don't have the network load I have. The interesting part, is that the switches are fine. The CPU controlling the routing functions are what dies (repeatedly). Those CPU's typically have a very high clock rate, and no cooling - not even a heat sink. As such, prolonged routing with heavy loads tends to kill them.

This new sucker, is designed to accommodate up to 20,000 concurrent users! I sure hope that is enough for the 15+ active connections in my home!

[waldojim]

Also, btw - just because it is kind of cool. I have now tested this sucker to have a range of over 400ft! This is real life feet, not the number printed on the box. And this was tested using my phone - it may be even better with a laptop or other device with a real antenna in it. 400ft through walls, and with MANY reflective objects in the area is no small feat. For what it is worth, I was seeing 4-5Mbit/sec down stream at that distance with 30ms ping to the Dallas speedtest server.

[waldojim]

Ok guys a few test results using the laptop. This is, of course, using a generic Realtek controller good for 1x1 testing only.

At 400Ft (roughly) I was seeing 1.2Mb/sec up and down. I had a latency of 10ms to my local speedtest server. The antenna on my router are very directional, and this is assuming in the best case path, while in worst case scenarios (meaning a building between me and the router, a wall, metal staircase, several cars, and of course 20+ local wifi networks).
At roughly 300ft off to the side of the box, I was seeing about .5Mbits. Though I had a building that seemed to be causing all those problems. Moving back in 50 ft (getting away from the building) solved the issue, and I was up to 2Mbit @ 250ft off angle.
Sitting right next to the router, using my media center to serve up files (as Charter is topping out around 25Mbit/s tonight), I was maintaining a steady 45Mbit/s. This also holds true at the other end of my apartment - even through 2 walls.

The wired side is a tad different story. I am not sure if I was seeing the network limits, card limits, or hard drive limits - but in any event 110MB/sec (880Mbit/s) is damned quick. I am seeing less than 1ms latency on the internal network, wired or wireless, and 8ms to the outside world.

Sadly, I have not had time, nor adequate information on testing methodology to test VPN services through the router.

I also want to confirm that Jumbo frames are NOT supported. Though, I don't know where I would use such a thing.

[LiveBrianD]

And to think, if you started modding it (cooling) and installed DD-WRT on it...

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 24 May 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

And to think, if you started modding it (cooling) and installed DD-WRT on it...

Nope. I got this sucker for the lifetime warranty. I refuse to do anything to it.

I am posting up numbers for anyone else that is looking for a solid upgrade from their consumer junk.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 24 May 2012 - 05:42 PM

[LiveBrianD]

How much traffic are you running through the network anyway? Second, how long do you think a consumer router would last under your use if you added a small heatsink and a little AS5 to the CPU?

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 24 May 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

How much traffic are you running through the network anyway? Second, how long do you think a consumer router would last under your use if you added a small heatsink and a little AS5 to the CPU?

I never really took measurements. The new router does this for me though, so I will get back to you on this.

As for a heatsink/As5 - I don't know. Though you couldn't use AS5, as you would need epoxy-paste as there are no mounting holes. EDIT: Also, most of those routers have little or no ventilation, or room to put the heatsink.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 24 May 2012 - 06:20 PM

[LiveBrianD]

I happen to have an old Linksys BEFSR41 sitting around, so I looked at it, and it looks like you would need a heatsink that's less than 1cm there. It has vents on top, but they're pretty small and probably not all that effective.

I just looked up the WRV210 and apparently that has pretty poor reviews on amazon (http://www.amazon.co...howViewpoints=1) - I wonder how a better rated consumer router would last.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 24 May 2012 - 07:11 PM

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 24 May 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

I happen to have an old Linksys BEFSR41 sitting around, so I looked at it, and it looks like you would need a heatsink that's less than 1cm there. It has vents on top, but they're pretty small and probably not all that effective.

I just looked up the WRV210 and apparently that has pretty poor reviews on amazon (http://www.amazon.co...howViewpoints=1) - I wonder how a better rated consumer router would last.

Most of the poor amazon reviews were there when I bought it, but there is one thing I learned when reading reviews. First, see how intelligent the customer base was, then go from there.
After reading many comments, I discounted them based on the "retarded" factor. Examples include:
"Plus, you might have to re-configure it from the beginning." - Are you [censored] kidding me? Yes, you have to. With any router. At least, if you want it to work well.
"CISCO has a 3 year limited warranty, but they make you fax in your receipt to honor it. " And what is the issue here? Others make you give them your ONLY copy!
"For starters, the WRV210 is a pain to configure. Hitting "Save" in Safari would cause Safari to complain about not being able to load the page, and your configuration changes would be lost. " OK, then MAYBE your screwball browser is to blame? Just a thought.

I hope you get my point. It is for these same reasons that I am ignoring comments on the router I bought. Forgive me for not taking comments like those seriously.

[LiveBrianD]

Yeah, but the ones about reboots and random disconnects probably aren't due to user error.

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 25 May 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Yeah, but the ones about reboots and random disconnects probably aren't due to user error.

Aren't they? If you drop in a router without thinking, and your neighbors all have routers they just dropped in, then most likely they are ALL on channel 6. Now what would cause a random disconnect? MAYBE your neighbors blasting away on the same frequency you are. As for random restarts, this one is even easier - HEAT. Have you seen what the average person does with these routers? Find the single worst place you can place them in, and shove it in that hole. Hot Boxes will force any equipment to act up.

Sorry, but most people complaining online are too stupid to own the equipment they are complaining about. The proof should be in the fact that this sucker lasted nearly 2 years before finally cooking. Not because it couldn't get air, or because I am a moron, but because it isn't cooled correctly. Amazing that when used correctly it makes it past the one week mark isn't it?

If you had checked the reviews on the Netgear I own now, you will see the exact same complaints from the same people who don't understand that the router needs to be configured in the first place. In two years, I will make a point of updating this thread with functionality - in fact, I might do an update after 6 months, 1 year, and 2 years.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 26 May 2012 - 05:07 AM

[Rommel]

waldojim, on 26 May 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

. In two years, I will make a point of updating this thread with functionality - in fact, I might do an update after 6 months, 1 year, and 2 years.

I can't wait, it's cool having something to look forward too. LOL.

Agreed, to many reviews of complaints that are do to user error or lack of knowledge.

[LiveBrianD]

@waldojim Keep in mind that it might also be design flaws - most other routers I've seen don't have such negative reviews. Granted, yes, the ones about having to configure it were probably written by idiots. I still don't get how you manage to kill routers that anyway, even if you run a ton of traffic through them. (Say, could you check the traffic on it now that you've had it for a few days?) For instance, my dad put the router and modem in a 12"x12"x2" box mounted to the wall, with a cover, and it works just fine. (eventually, he decided to leave the cover off because occasionally we had to reboot it due to comcast problems and it was a pain to unscrew the whole thing) Come to think of it, my grandparents have had a linksys WRT54G for several years, with a fairly hot running zytel modem box sitting on top of it where the vent holes are (both are sitting on top of one of their computers, which sits on the desk), and haven't had any issues with that. I wouldn't be at all surprised if people found worse places to put them though. Sure, my grandparents just use their computers to check email and surf the internet for the most part, probably not using much bandwidth, though in my case my dad also uses internet video streaming on the TV, and I tend to use a GB or two a day sometimes watching a few youtube videos in HD, and it adds up.

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 26 May 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

@waldojim Keep in mind that it might also be design flaws - most other routers I've seen don't have such negative reviews. Granted, yes, the ones about having to configure it were probably written by idiots. I still don't get how you manage to kill routers that anyway, even if you run a ton of traffic through them. (Say, could you check the traffic on it now that you've had it for a few days?) For instance, my dad put the router and modem in a 12"x12"x2" box mounted to the wall, with a cover, and it works just fine. (eventually, he decided to leave the cover off because occasionally we had to reboot it due to comcast problems and it was a pain to unscrew the whole thing) Come to think of it, my grandparents have had a linksys WRT54G for several years, with a fairly hot running zytel modem box sitting on top of it where the vent holes are (both are sitting on top of one of their computers, which sits on the desk), and haven't had any issues with that. I wouldn't be at all surprised if people found worse places to put them though. Sure, my grandparents just use their computers to check email and surf the internet for the most part, probably not using much bandwidth, though in my case my dad also uses internet video streaming on the TV, and I tend to use a GB or two a day sometimes watching a few youtube videos in HD, and it adds up.

I want to get a monthly number first, I will be sure to let you know. I am also working double shifts this week, so I am not home to verify the numbers yet. As for the negative reviews, and their association to dead routers - take a look at the reviews for the ever-so-popular WRT54G, while reading those, remember that I cooked THREE of them, less than one year each.

Quote

For instance, my dad put the router and modem in a 12"x12"x2" box mounted to the wall, with a cover, and it works just fine.

That right there is the kind of crazy crap that will kill it quick with the load I run at home. The routers get hot just with daily use, I don't need a freaking hot box helping kill it. Remember though, it isn't just the amount of traffic it passes, but the fact that there are at least 7 devices at any one time transferring data, with up to 20 on the network doing its business. Now, this hasn't been as much of an issue since we got to the apartment, as the machines I tinker with are mostly in storage, but the media center/server is still up, as are both xbox's and considerable video streaming.

[LiveBrianD]

Man, your usage must be REALLY atypical then... in my case, btw, there are 11 devices on the network, though we almost never have all of them in use at once, and a lot of them probably aren't using much bandwidth. (an ipod, a phone, roku, bluray player, squeezebox, 2 desktops, 4 laptops)

In case you're wondering:


The cable modem (a motorola) is right behind it btw. Both feel a little warm, but I doubt they'd be much cooler if they were, say, sitting on an open shelf. Again, the cover is always off nowadays, just like in the picture.