[LiveBrianD]

In case you didn't get the memo, the Win8 release preview was released earlier today. http://windows.micro...release-preview

I downloaded and installed it in a VM, and here's what I've found:
-new wallpaper - a few flowers instead of an ugly artificial fish or windows logo. I think like this.
-in the desktop personalization settings, there are nice, bright, matte tiles for the different colors, not the glossy ones from Vista/7 with rounded edges. This looks cool.
-more metro UI color selections
-It seems snappier than the consumer preview in general
-I think that the simpler lines and such in context menus are nice. (sorta like Office XP or 2003 under the windows classic theme)

Cons:
-the new back/forth buttons in explorer are downright ugly, with poor colors. (why didn't they just use the ones they used in IE? Btw IE10 on the desktop is EXACTLY the same as IE9 as far as I can tell.)
-the metro UI is still unintuitive, and if I want to launch something that's not on the start screen or pinned to the taskbar it's a huge hassle (ex. wordpad, command prompt, etc)
-metro apps are still very unintuitive on a desktop or laptop and a waste of space. (couldn't they just offer these as desktop apps if you don't want the full metro UI, having live tiles like desktop gadgets instead?)
-The basic theme is downright ugly. Seriously, this is the worst theme I've EVER seen. I'd gladly take the Windows 2000 theme to this.
-There seems to be a new link select cursor set by default, which is a bit ugly in my opinion.
-Again, the metro UI is unintuitive. I use the start menu for searching and such all the time and I doubt I'd be as efficient under Windows 8.

[compnovo]

I just installed it on a spare 5400rpm laptop drive and spent some time playing with it. Very responsive and intuitive (since I've been using the live tiles on my phone for a while it was pretty easy to get the hang of). I like the metro apps, and IE works fine in both GUIs (altho' I haven't yet found Favorites in the metro version). I use the Windows flag key to get back to the metro desktop quickly --- if there's another shortcut I haven't found it yet, don't need it.

At this point I'm sticking with my original plan: keep Win7 on my towers and media center PC (I use WMC A LOT) and get WinRT on an ARM tablet to replace my netbook when somebody releases some decent hardware this fall. I'm not opposed to Win8 on my towers, I just don't need to spend the money yet on three new licenses (but I'll keep an open mind ).

All in all I like it, but then again I'm a big fan of WP7 so I'm biased.

[LiveBrianD]

I played around with WP7 a little, and that's pretty dang fast compared to Android, and the UI is a bit better there. Still, I personally feel that it doesn't use screen space very efficiently, I have no use for the live tiles, and in general I didn't really like the feel of it. I'm still planning to get an android device.

Are you mostly staying in the desktop or the metro UI? (I thought you said you liked metro before, if I remember correctly.)

[compnovo]

LiveBrianD, on 01 June 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

I played around with WP7 a little, and that's pretty dang fast compared to Android, and the UI is a bit better there. Still, I personally feel that it doesn't use screen space very efficiently, I have no use for the live tiles, and in general I didn't really like the feel of it. I'm still planning to get an android device.

Are you mostly staying in the desktop or the metro UI? (I thought you said you liked metro before, if I remember correctly.)

I've been staying in the metro UI since it's the new one, playing around and getting a feel for it.

If you don't like live tiles you definitely want to stay away. I personally like them on a touch device, they create a very clean aesthetic.

This post has been edited by compnovo: 01 June 2012 - 07:11 PM

[LiveBrianD]

Personally, I don't like how metro IE can't be customized much at all (I prefer to run adblock, wot, and ghostery with my browser, as well as change the cookie settings to 3rd party only), and I feel that it's a bit too minimalistic for me. (Chrome is a bit minimalistic too, but not to the point of seriously sacrificing functionality.) The apps just seem silly to me -
I'm not necessarily saying there's anything wrong with live tiles; I'm just saying that I don't think they'd be useful for me. Personally, on a phone, I'd prefer a vanilla-Android or iOS style home screen, with a little star or something next to the mail app to tell me when I have new mail. After all, I have to open it to read the mail anyway, so what's the point? (the weather one might be handy though)

I've also noticed that it seems a bit easier to activate the charms bar and the start corner now - I don't have to be on that exact pixel now. I can actually hit those decently well in a VM when it's not full-screened.

An annoying little bug I found in the wikipedia app - it doesn't seem to account for the scroll bar when deciding how much text to have. (it has a bunch of columns that are the width of your screen and you scroll to the right, not up and down) As a result, the scroll bar is on top of some of the bottom line of articles at times. Have you seen this? I think the search function is a bit unintuitive there - I was looking all over the place for it in the wikipedia app until I realized, oh yeah, charms bar, search, there it is. To be honest, even on phones, I think apps are a bit stupid - why not just use the web browser? (ok, they're a good idea for games so you can play them offline, but it's not like the wikipedia app works offline anyway...)

[waldojim]

OK, just installed it on the laptop. And surprisingly (at least to me), it is quite an improvement over Consumer Preview. Once more, the tight integration has improved. Skydrive works perfectly, Metro is smoother, and automatically picking up the useful portions of installed software. With Aero disabled, you can see the more blocky interface MS is using in the desktop, not a bad thing by any means. Once more Internet Explorer already knows what sites I want to go to, even going so far as to have a PCW link on launch.

The only problems so far are minor. Right now Nvidia drivers aren't installing, not sure why. And my mouse scrolling is jerky, I think this is a touchpad setting that is fubar.

edit: fixed the video driver - apparently Windows needed a restart after the Intel card.
Also, why no love for IE? So far, it has been quick, and simplistic. The only down side, is the 100+MB of memory usage with next to nothing open.
edit 2: Just got the Synaptics drivers installed. Nearly wet myself. ALL of the gestures work, and work well! This was supported under 7, but always seemed like a chore to use. Right now, they are smooth as silk.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 02 June 2012 - 12:00 AM

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 31 May 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Cons:
-the new back/forth buttons in explorer are downright ugly, with poor colors. (why didn't they just use the ones they used in IE? Btw IE10 on the desktop is EXACTLY the same as IE9 as far as I can tell.)
-the metro UI is still unintuitive, and if I want to launch something that's not on the start screen or pinned to the taskbar it's a huge hassle (ex. wordpad, command prompt, etc)
-metro apps are still very unintuitive on a desktop or laptop and a waste of space. (couldn't they just offer these as desktop apps if you don't want the full metro UI, having live tiles like desktop gadgets instead?)
-The basic theme is downright ugly. Seriously, this is the worst theme I've EVER seen. I'd gladly take the Windows 2000 theme to this.
-There seems to be a new link select cursor set by default, which is a bit ugly in my opinion.
-Again, the metro UI is unintuitive. I use the start menu for searching and such all the time and I doubt I'd be as efficient under Windows 8.

1. Are you referring to desktop or Metro IE? Neither seemed to be a problem to me, though likely that is because of how long I have been using Win 8.
2. What hassle are you running into? I right click, select all programs, and select the desired program. Or right click the program in question and pin it to the Metro start screen. Seems quite straight forward to me, and is MUCH faster than Start>All programs>accessories>notepad. That may just be me though.

I really am curious what you have found to be truly difficult - as in more so than Windows 7. Because so far, everything I have seen has been the exact opposite. If I were just learning to use a PC, this seems easier to grasp...

EDIT: Most important question I have of the night: Does anyone else have an issue with Windows sitting at roughly 25% CPU usage? Or anything abnormally high? I am trying to figure out what is going on, but it seems to be under the generic heading "NT Kernel & System".

This post has been edited by waldojim: 02 June 2012 - 12:18 AM

[compnovo]

waldojim, on 02 June 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

EDIT: Most important question I have of the night: Does anyone else have an issue with Windows sitting at roughly 25% CPU usage? Or anything abnormally high? I am trying to figure out what is going on, but it seems to be under the generic heading "NT Kernel & System".

wj,
I'm in desktop mode right now and task manager shows CPU usage at 0% to 1%, so I don't think it's a universal problem with Win8. I'll try it with the metro UI and post back.

EDIT: Well I just learned that task manager is one of the programs that defaults you back to desktop. Same results.

This post has been edited by compnovo: 02 June 2012 - 08:31 AM

[waldojim]

compnovo, on 02 June 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

waldojim, on 02 June 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

EDIT: Most important question I have of the night: Does anyone else have an issue with Windows sitting at roughly 25% CPU usage? Or anything abnormally high? I am trying to figure out what is going on, but it seems to be under the generic heading "NT Kernel & System".

wj,
I'm in desktop mode right now and task manager shows CPU usage at 0% to 1%, so I don't think it's a universal problem with Win8. I'll try it with the metro UI and post back.

EDIT: Well I just learned that task manager is one of the programs that defaults you back to desktop. Same results.

Oddly enough, after putting my machine to sleep for the night, mine stopped as well. Must have been indexing or something.

[compnovo]

waldojim, on 02 June 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

compnovo, on 02 June 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

waldojim, on 02 June 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

EDIT: Most important question I have of the night: Does anyone else have an issue with Windows sitting at roughly 25% CPU usage? Or anything abnormally high? I am trying to figure out what is going on, but it seems to be under the generic heading "NT Kernel & System".

wj,
I'm in desktop mode right now and task manager shows CPU usage at 0% to 1%, so I don't think it's a universal problem with Win8. I'll try it with the metro UI and post back.

EDIT: Well I just learned that task manager is one of the programs that defaults you back to desktop. Same results.

Oddly enough, after putting my machine to sleep for the night, mine stopped as well. Must have been indexing or something.

That makes the most sense. I didn't check performance at first so the indexing was probably completed while I was playing around.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 02 June 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 31 May 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Cons:
-the new back/forth buttons in explorer are downright ugly, with poor colors. (why didn't they just use the ones they used in IE? Btw IE10 on the desktop is EXACTLY the same as IE9 as far as I can tell.)
-the metro UI is still unintuitive, and if I want to launch something that's not on the start screen or pinned to the taskbar it's a huge hassle (ex. wordpad, command prompt, etc)
-metro apps are still very unintuitive on a desktop or laptop and a waste of space. (couldn't they just offer these as desktop apps if you don't want the full metro UI, having live tiles like desktop gadgets instead?)
-The basic theme is downright ugly. Seriously, this is the worst theme I've EVER seen. I'd gladly take the Windows 2000 theme to this.
-There seems to be a new link select cursor set by default, which is a bit ugly in my opinion.
-Again, the metro UI is unintuitive. I use the start menu for searching and such all the time and I doubt I'd be as efficient under Windows 8.

1. Are you referring to desktop or Metro IE? Neither seemed to be a problem to me, though likely that is because of how long I have been using Win 8.
2. What hassle are you running into? I right click, select all programs, and select the desired program. Or right click the program in question and pin it to the Metro start screen. Seems quite straight forward to me, and is MUCH faster than Start>All programs>accessories>notepad. That may just be me though.

I really am curious what you have found to be truly difficult - as in more so than Windows 7. Because so far, everything I have seen has been the exact opposite. If I were just learning to use a PC, this seems easier to grasp...

EDIT: Most important question I have of the night: Does anyone else have an issue with Windows sitting at roughly 25% CPU usage? Or anything abnormally high? I am trying to figure out what is going on, but it seems to be under the generic heading "NT Kernel & System".

Metro IE. Desktop IE doesn't seem any different from IE9, good enough, though I still prefer Chrome. Generally, I've found it a bit easier to just hit start and type notepad, like in win7, though come to think of it it's not as bad as I originally thought. (I didn't realize at first that if you started typing at the start screen it would search.) Granted, now that I've used it some more it doesn't seem quite as bad as before (and it seems that it's easier to invoke the hot corners than before). However, it is rather annoying that if I go to the top right of the screen and try to click to close a maximized window, I can't because of the charms bar. (this works perfectly in Win7) I'm definitely not a fan of metro IE though, even after playing around with it for a while. I also still think that the idea of fullscreen apps for everything is silly and a waste of space.

As for high CPU usage, I haven't really checked, but when I leave the VM idle for about 5-10 minutes Windows maintenance kicks in and starts thrashing around the hard drive. (if I start using it again, it stops pretty quickly.) I'll take a look at this.

I finally figured out what's going on with resource monitor - open the Task Manager, Performance tab, and at the bottom there's a button to open it. That's more logical than before, now that I think about it.

Edit: Yep, after leaving it idle for a while maintainence kicked in, started thrashing the hard drive, and pegged the CPU at 60-80% usage or so. (Note: I emulated a single dual-core processor and 3GB RAM.) It stopped after a few minutes. (I kept interrupting it before.) Note: Since this is a VM, I don't have any files on it, aside from a few pictures so I can test the photo app, and Google Chrome, so there's not a lot to defrag there.)

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 02 June 2012 - 10:35 AM

[LiveBrianD]

Something interesting I noticed - if you have multiple monitors, the taskbar will appear on all of them. Not bad, though I don't see how I'm supposed to hit the lower-left hot corner on my second monitor, for instance. (I can do it, but I think I'm a little more precise with the mouse than a lot of other people, and I still overshoot a lot.)

Edit: I played around with it a bit more, and although I STILL don't like apps like metro IE and mail (I can't even look at two things there at once - I might want to look at an email so I can reference it while writing another, for example, and I can't have multiple windows of metro IE open, useless when I want a ton of stuff open at once, which I do very often), I've found that the games there seem to play pretty well. For instance, Cut the Rope was silk smooth at 1920x1080. Yes, and that's in a VM. I also still think that, for instance, going into a fullscreen UI (photo app) to preview a photo from explorer is stupid. (The Windows preview thing from Win7 is still there though, if you right-click and select 'open with'.)

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 02 June 2012 - 11:01 AM

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 02 June 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

Metro IE. Desktop IE doesn't seem any different from IE9, good enough, though I still prefer Chrome. Generally, I've found it a bit easier to just hit start and type notepad, like in win7, though come to think of it it's not as bad as I originally thought. (I didn't realize at first that if you started typing at the start screen it would search.) Granted, now that I've used it some more it doesn't seem quite as bad as before (and it seems that it's easier to invoke the hot corners than before). However, it is rather annoying that if I go to the top right of the screen and try to click to close a maximized window, I can't because of the charms bar. (this works perfectly in Win7) I'm definitely not a fan of metro IE though, even after playing around with it for a while. I also still think that the idea of fullscreen apps for everything is silly and a waste of space.

As for high CPU usage, I haven't really checked, but when I leave the VM idle for about 5-10 minutes Windows maintenance kicks in and starts thrashing around the hard drive. (if I start using it again, it stops pretty quickly.) I'll take a look at this.

I finally figured out what's going on with resource monitor - open the Task Manager, Performance tab, and at the bottom there's a button to open it. That's more logical than before, now that I think about it.

Edit: Yep, after leaving it idle for a while maintainence kicked in, started thrashing the hard drive, and pegged the CPU at 60-80% usage or so. (Note: I emulated a single dual-core processor and 3GB RAM.) It stopped after a few minutes. (I kept interrupting it before.) Note: Since this is a VM, I don't have any files on it, aside from a few pictures so I can test the photo app, and Google Chrome, so there's not a lot to defrag there.)

The moment I installed gesture controls, I didn't even look for GUI elements in Metro IE. Sorry, but they just aren't needed.

As for the Metro apps, you have choices. I want you to test something though. Put all your documents on skydrive, and see how well the integration between apps and the cloud works out. So far, it has been refreshing. Apps talk to each other, and use online services as if they were local. Also, I know when I am browsing, that tends to be all I am doing. I see no reason to force it down to a small window - it is actually wasting more space that way.

[LiveBrianD]

I still find I'm faster with a regular desktop browser. As I said, keep in mind that plenty of people (perhaps the majority) use mice with their computers (desktop users, AND plenty of laptop users). Yes, my mouse has back/forward buttons on it, which I use, but that still doesn't help me with the url bar, for instance. And there are no addons. I just don't like it.

Also, I don't want my only copy of my updated documents to be online. As it is, I put my school stuff in dropbox, and that works pretty well for me. (and I also have it offline if needed) Yes, I know about the Skydrive desktop app, though it's support for other platforms is still limited and it has a file size limit. Also, I hate how you only have certain preset settings for the size of metro apps if you multitask. For instance, I just tried having wordpad and metro IE open at once - my choices are only 2/3 for IE and 1/3 for wordpad (and desktop apps won't show at all with that), or vise versa. Or, in desktop mode, I can make it half-half, which works pretty well. Why limit myself that way? (again, sure, I can use the desktop mode, but then what's the point of metro?)

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 02 June 2012 - 11:07 AM

[crazy4laptops]

Long live the start menu! I am constantly tweeting to @MicrosoftHelps about everything that annoys me with the O/S. From the fact that MSE is built in with no easy access to the UI, no start menu, UAC and SmartScreen are only more annoying, I have to turn them both off just to be able to use the O/S!

The photo below is irony.

[LiveBrianD]

Hmm, I guess IE isn't the best browser for downloading other browsers then.

I wonder why they didn't just call Windows Defender MSE, because that's exactly what it is! It looks identical, and both antivirus and antimalware.

[crazy4laptops]

LiveBrianD, on 02 June 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

Hmm, I guess IE isn't the best browser for downloading other browsers then.

I wonder why they didn't just call Windows Defender MSE, because that's exactly what it is! It looks identical, and both antivirus and antimalware.

I think it's crashing from virtualbox integration, it can't load any websites and Firefox was the only thing i needed.

I had performance issues with defender back in the vista and early Win7 days. The annoyance comes in that you can't open it unless you have a start menu or an infection... Microsoft fail!

[LiveBrianD]

If you need to open it, no worries, just download some malware! JK!

Mouse over to the lower right of the screen, move up (activating the charms bar), search, and type 'defender'. It's there.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 02 June 2012 - 11:59 AM

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 02 June 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

I still find I'm faster with a regular desktop browser. As I said, keep in mind that plenty of people (perhaps the majority) use mice with their computers (desktop users, AND plenty of laptop users). Yes, my mouse has back/forward buttons on it, which I use, but that still doesn't help me with the url bar, for instance. And there are no addons. I just don't like it.

Also, I don't want my only copy of my updated documents to be online. As it is, I put my school stuff in dropbox, and that works pretty well for me. (and I also have it offline if needed) Yes, I know about the Skydrive desktop app, though it's support for other platforms is still limited and it has a file size limit. Also, I hate how you only have certain preset settings for the size of metro apps if you multitask. For instance, I just tried having wordpad and metro IE open at once - my choices are only 2/3 for IE and 1/3 for wordpad (and desktop apps won't show at all with that), or vise versa. Or, in desktop mode, I can make it half-half, which works pretty well. Why limit myself that way? (again, sure, I can use the desktop mode, but then what's the point of metro?)

I think this is where we just have fundamental differences. I HATE having addons. I just want the browser, nothing more. Once again though, Windows 8 has near perfect prediction in the address bar. I type one letter, and the site I want is already filled in for me. This is on CLEAN installs. I love this function.

I am not suggesting the interwebz have your only copy, only suggesting you try out the functions, and get to using them a bit more. There has been a surprising improvement there, enough that it may be worth taking some time to try it out.

[LiveBrianD]

Personally, I prefer being able to block tracking scripts, cookies, and ads, as well as bookmark syncing. Didn't you say you were using script blockers and ABP in FF?

Another little thing - you know how you were talking about people installing Win8 on old PCs? I think Windows 8 requires NX capabilities, which Pentium 4s don't have. I've read about people having issues there. (I haven't tried it on my P4 so far.)