[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 08 July 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

No, basically I am claiming that I stopped posting in this thread a while back because of your refusal to learn anything. I posted again in reply to another member that might have a legitimate concern that I am curious about and you have taken this opportunity to wedge yourself into it. I don't care to deal with you right now. I have a very hectic life at the moment and dealing with another child is not a priority.

Except that I DID learn to use it, as I proved above...

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 08 July 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

I don't see why v9 wouldn't be - after all, aside from a few things, I haven't heard of any issues running older software in win8.

Very likely the problems are either related to how video/sound is handled, or DRM.

[compnovo]

waldojim, on 08 July 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 08 July 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

I don't see why v9 wouldn't be - after all, aside from a few things, I haven't heard of any issues running older software in win8.

Very likely the problems are either related to how video/sound is handled, or DRM.

I never found out the exact cause. v9 would lock up in WMC when I would launch it so I tried uninstalling/reinstalling. It wouldn't reinstall, just gave me an error message then went back to the splash screen for the app.

[aaparsan]

waldojim, on 05 July 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

aaparsan, on 05 July 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

I have tried it out and it and they need to do a lot more to make it compatible with a Keyboard and Mouse not just a touchscreen.

What do you mean by "more compatible"? So far, every
function tested has worked with a keyboard and mouse, so I would be interested in knowing what you have trouble with.

I didn't mean to say compatible and meant to say "Make Sense.Also it seems like if Microsoft wants you to get a touchscreen and touchscreens need special parts and they aren't easy to change and + they are a bit more costly.

This post has been edited by aaparsan: 16 July 2012 - 05:24 AM

[waldojim]

aaparsan, on 16 July 2012 - 05:23 AM, said:

waldojim, on 05 July 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

aaparsan, on 05 July 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

I have tried it out and it and they need to do a lot more to make it compatible with a Keyboard and Mouse not just a touchscreen.

What do you mean by "more compatible"? So far, every
function tested has worked with a keyboard and mouse, so I would be interested in knowing what you have trouble with.

I didn't mean to say compatible and meant to say "Make Sense.Also it seems like if Microsoft wants you to get a touchscreen and touchscreens need special parts and they aren't easy to change and + they are a bit more costly.

Oh ok, and on that note, sorry but MS is not trying to force touchscreen on anyone. They designed a single OS that works on everything with a consistent UI, and some hope of maintaining a bit of familiarity between devices. To date, this is the best solution I have ever seen for multiple platforms. Something that give touch users exactly what they need without compromising non-touch mannerisms or performance.

That is an extremely tight balancing act, and I challenge users to think of a better multi-platform solution before complaining.

[LiveBrianD]

I see the thought there, but again, there is a good reason why no one has done that before. Are, say, swiping gestures in Android 4.1 good on my phone? Sure, and I'm fine with them. But on my PC, not so much (swipe to reveal the login screen anyone?). I frequently have dozens of tabs open, several instances of Explorer, and more open at once. That would be a mess in metro, if it worked at all. I also can't run any programming tools in there, or have 2 programs taking half the screen each (the main way I have 2 programs open at once). If I open a picture or audio file in Explorer, it opens the metro app for it, and how you get back to Explorer is confusing. (Yes, I know wmp and the old place picture viewer are still there.) Yet they're pushing that as the main UI in the OS?

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 16 July 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

I see the thought there, but again, there is a good reason why no one has done that before. Are, say, swiping gestures in Android 4.1 good on my phone? Sure, and I'm fine with them. But on my PC, not so much (swipe to reveal the login screen anyone?).

Yep, works great on phones and tablets. Hence why all I do is click to reveal login.

Quote

I frequently have dozens of tabs open, several instances of Explorer, and more open at once. That would be a mess in metro, if it worked at all.

This is why Windows 8 also has a desktop. To allow for all the goofy instances of software that you want. IE also happens to keep very clean, I have personally opened at least 6 tabs there and been amazed at how clean it is.

Quote

I also can't run any programming tools in there, or have 2 programs taking half the screen each (the main way I have 2 programs open at once). If I open a picture or audio file in Explorer, it opens the metro app for it, and how you get back to Explorer is confusing. (Yes, I know wmp and the old place picture viewer are still there.) Yet they're pushing that as the main UI in the OS?

Again, there is a desktop for a reason. Do you do EVERYTHING the hard way?

[LiveBrianD]

In that case, why force metro on desktops and laptops, where it isn't useful? They're basically acting like it's the solution to everything here, but it isn't. And as I said, with metro apps for pictures and music as the default, if I'm managing them in Explorer and viewing them, it gets really confusing. To get back to explorer, you have to switch to the "desktop" app (a bit generic, considering I could and probably will have lots of stuff open in it), and of course the task switcher isn't obvious either. I guess clicking a simple X was too difficult. If you've read this, you know what I'm talking about. Also, in Chrome, I VERY often have a dozen or more tabs open at once. I just opened a dozen tabs in metro IE, and discovered that once I got to 10, the others started disappearing. (as far as I can tell) Strange... Btw, I also do this on my phone, and even there Chrome's tab switcher works just fine for it. (it's rather neat, actually - that's why I never use the stock browser there) That UI is a waste of screen space compared to a normal browser, when you bring up the controls.

Let's put it this way - an oven and a toaster oven can be used for the same things, for the most part, but there's still a reason why each one exists. There's no point in preheating the entire oven to make a piece of toast, and you can't put a casserole in the toaster oven.

I didn't realize you could click to reveal the login screen though - that isn't obvious at all.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 16 July 2012 - 04:30 PM

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 16 July 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

In that case, why force metro on desktops and laptops, where it isn't useful? They're basically acting like it's the solution to everything here, but it isn't. And as I said, with metro apps for pictures and music as the default, if I'm managing them in Explorer and viewing them, it gets really confusing. To get back to explorer, you have to switch to the "desktop" app (a bit generic, considering I could and probably will have lots of stuff open in it), and of course the task switcher isn't obvious either. I guess clicking a simple X was too difficult. If you've read this, you know what I'm talking about. Also, in Chrome, I VERY often have a dozen or more tabs open at once. I just opened a dozen tabs in metro IE, and discovered that once I got to 10, the others started disappearing. (as far as I can tell) Strange... Btw, I also do this on my phone, and even there Chrome's tab switcher works just fine for it. (it's rather neat, actually - that's why I never use the stock browser there) That UI is a waste of screen space compared to a normal browser, when you bring up the controls.

Let's put it this way - an oven and a toaster oven can be used for the same things, for the most part, but there's still a reason why each one exists. There's no point in preheating the entire oven to make a piece of toast, and you can't put a casserole in the toaster oven.

I didn't realize you could click to reveal the login screen though - that isn't obvious at all.

Quit viewing it as a "do everything" interface. On the desktop view it as a start menu, with a few quick access "apps" that are shared across devices. When you WANT something to be crap, it generally is.

[LiveBrianD]

In that case, why are they pushing metro so hard (look at the videos they have of it and you'll see them using it even on desktops and laptops) and relegating the desktop to second-class status? I have to wonder what the point of hiding all the controls, making things less obvious and requiring more clicks for me to do things is, when I have plenty of screen space. (basically most metro apps)

I have to wonder why they're forcing metro on people, when Windows Phone 7 has it and it's failing to gain much market penetration. For instance, even though I was well aware of WP7 as an option, I bought an Android phone anyway.

Anyway, have you also noticed the 10 tab bug in metro IE?

[compnovo]

LiveBrianD, on 16 July 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

I didn't realize you could click to reveal the login screen though - that isn't obvious at all.

Or just press Enter. You have to play with it awhile to discover things, and you have to have an open mind if you're going to be a beta tester (I started beta testing MS products back with Outlook 98, an add-on to Office 97).).

The most fun I'm having right now is with Win8 on my lowly netbook, and the Metro apps won't run at all (native screen resolution is too low). I just unpinned every Metro icon except Desktop and launch into it from there, where I have set all apps to launch from desktop friendly programs. The netbook acts like I upgraded the processor, it's so much faster at everything.

When I get the Win8 RT tablet my plan is to stay within the Metro interface as much as possible where I can take advantage of the touch interface --- I'm really looking forward to it, and it's possible because Win8 will work on different platforms.

[LiveBrianD]

compnovo, on 16 July 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 16 July 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

I didn't realize you could click to reveal the login screen though - that isn't obvious at all.

Or just press Enter. You have to play with it awhile to discover things, and you have to have an open mind if you're going to be a beta tester (I started beta testing MS products back with Outlook 98, an add-on to Office 97).).

The most fun I'm having right now is with Win8 on my lowly netbook, and the Metro apps won't run at all (native screen resolution is too low). I just unpinned every Metro icon except Desktop and launch into it from there, where I have set all apps to launch from desktop friendly programs. The netbook acts like I upgraded the processor, it's so much faster at everything.

When I get the Win8 RT tablet my plan is to stay within the Metro interface as much as possible where I can take advantage of the touch interface --- I'm really looking forward to it, and it's possible because Win8 will work on different platforms.

Hmm, it looks like the spacebar also does it. (I already knew about the up arrow key.)

On your netbook, would you say that Windows 8 actually feels snappy? (Windows 7, in my opinion, isn't on Atom netbooks. Heck, even on my E350 machine, it's sometimes not great.)

[compnovo]

LiveBrianD, on 16 July 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

On your netbook, would you say that Windows 8 actually feels snappy? (Windows 7, in my opinion, isn't on Atom netbooks. Heck, even on my E350 machine, it's sometimes not great.)

VERY snappy, the difference is truly amazing. The funny thing is, the WEI score is lower now.

[compnovo]

Just as an example, my netbook is running Win8, the 1.66 Atom, 2GB of RAM, and an Intel SATA2 SSD. My desktop has Win7 HP, a PhenomIIX4 955 BE, 8GB RAM, and a Plextor SATA3 SSD, a very competent machine. The netbook cold boots FASTER than the desktop.

[waldojim]

compnovo, on 16 July 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Just as an example, my netbook is running Win8, the 1.66 Atom, 2GB of RAM, and an Intel SATA2 SSD. My desktop has Win7 HP, a PhenomIIX4 955 BE, 8GB RAM, and a Plextor SATA3 SSD, a very competent machine. The netbook cold boots FASTER than the desktop.

That is largely because of how much stuff they deferred til after the machine is running. Still, it is impressive. Even my AMD Athlon XP was booting quicker than I could have ever expected. A lot of work has gone into Win 8, and it shows.

[LiveBrianD]

compnovo, on 16 July 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

VERY snappy, the difference is truly amazing. The funny thing is, the WEI score is lower now.

Even in VMs, I'm finding that Win feels pretty fast. Windows 7 (in a VM on the older slow secondary hard drive) boots like a dog in comparison. Even my XP VM is slower. (Admittedly, the install is probably a few years old, and has quite a bit of stuff installed.)

Maybe, just for the heck of it, I'll try the consumer preview on the p4 box (not the consumer one, due to the nx requirement).

[compnovo]

LiveBrianD, on 17 July 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

compnovo, on 16 July 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

VERY snappy, the difference is truly amazing. The funny thing is, the WEI score is lower now.

Even in VMs, I'm finding that Win feels pretty fast. Windows 7 (in a VM on the older slow secondary hard drive) boots like a dog in comparison. Even my XP VM is slower. (Admittedly, the install is probably a few years old, and has quite a bit of stuff installed.)

Maybe, just for the heck of it, I'll try the consumer preview on the p4 box (not the consumer one, due to the nx requirement).

I don't know if there are any performance differences between the consumer and release preview but it may be apples to oranges. Too bad you don't have a spare HDD laying around, but at least the P4 will give you a sense without having to virtualize.

[LiveBrianD]

In a VM, I didn't really notice much (if any) difference between the two.