[LiveBrianD]

What have you guys found to be typical CPU and HDD temps in an SFF case? I was using that old P4 machine a little earlier (another family member mainly uses it, I was just updating it and such), and while defragging it, noticed that the hard drive hit 58C! (that's when I stopped and shut it down) I think the CPU was at 50C or so. This is not the first time that's happened while doing that. Meanwhile, do the same thing to my PC, and the hard drive won't exceed 40C and the CPU won't exceed 50C (full load, not near idle). (it's about 78-79F in the house right now)

I'm still thinking about replacing some older machines (such as that one), but I'm starting to wonder if an SFF case is the best idea, or if a micro-ATX mini-tower would be better. (mainly because of cooling concerns) Any thoughts?

[compnovo]

LiveBrianD, on 01 June 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

What have you guys found to be typical CPU and HDD temps in an SFF case? I was using that old P4 machine a little earlier (another family member mainly uses it, I was just updating it and such), and while defragging it, noticed that the hard drive hit 58C! (that's when I stopped and shut it down) I think the CPU was at 50C or so. This is not the first time that's happened while doing that. Meanwhile, do the same thing to my PC, and the hard drive won't exceed 40C and the CPU won't exceed 50C (full load, not near idle). (it's about 78-79F in the house right now)

I'm still thinking about replacing some older machines (such as that one), but I'm starting to wonder if an SFF case is the best idea, or if a micro-ATX mini-tower would be better. (mainly because of cooling concerns) Any thoughts?

I don't know if this will be helpful but I installed Speedfan on my media center PC, a SFF Foxconn case with a miniITX board, and attached a screenshot of the idle temps for the cores and GPU.

Attached thumbnail(s)

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[compnovo]

If it would help to know the specs, as you can see I'm running an E3400 Celeron, with 2GB of DDR2 800 RAM, an AMD 4350 video card with passive cooling, a Diamond TV tuner card, blu ray combo optical drive, 120GB SSD boot drive and 640GB storage drive (via USB in a Rosewill case, so it won't affect temps). The CPU cooler is stock Intel.

[LiveBrianD]

As I recall, I ran hwmonitor on one of the compaq 8200s at school (3GHz or so Core 2 Duo, Radeon 6450) and the idle temps were also in the 30s. I think the better power management on newer CPUs (even your Celeron is new compared to that 478 Pentium 4) is probably why. What happens if you run prime95 on it?

In case you're wondering, these are the cases I'm looking at: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16856119054 (actually a barebone)
and http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811147123 It's funny, the foxconn SFF case looks remarkably similar to some of the gateway SFF cases I've seen lately. (same OEM behind that?) It's probably the same quality too - basic Foxconn motherboard and Channel Well power supply (250W).

Also, what specific model of case are you using? (so I can take a look at the airflow on it)

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 01 June 2012 - 08:30 PM

[compnovo]

LiveBrianD, on 01 June 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

As I recall, I ran hwmonitor on one of the compaq 8200s at school (3GHz or so Core 2 Duo, Radeon 6450) and the idle temps were also in the 30s. I think the better power management on newer CPUs (even your Celeron is new compared to that 478 Pentium 4) is probably why. What happens if you run prime95 on it?

In case you're wondering, these are the cases I'm looking at: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16856119054 (actually a barebone)
and http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811147123

That's the same Rosewill case I used for my wife's build, and my son and I just rebuilt his wife's PC with it also. It's a very nice case, although the sides panels are a little flimsy. I'm also a Foxconn fan, that's what I used for my SFF (although it was a different case/mobo).

[LiveBrianD]

In general, do you like the size of those cases? I want something fairly compact, but then again, SFF cases are a royal PITA to work with (not that the machine will be opened up much - these would be for other family members anyway). How much air do you feel blowing through the case, with the stock fans, and what's the noise level? (I'm not worried about airflow in the Rosewill case, particularly with a 65W i3 or something like that, just curious.) For a basic internet browsing machine, which would you recommend? (and if getting the rosewill case, I'd pair it with an Antec Basiq 350W and a basic asus/gigabyte/msi/asrock motherboard) And how does the sturdiness of the Rosewill case compare to your Antec Sonata? (for instance, my Antec 300 is rock solid, I can sit on it, and nothing will happen)

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 01 June 2012 - 08:38 PM

[compnovo]

LiveBrianD, on 01 June 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

In general, do you like the size of those cases? I want something fairly compact, but then again, SFF cases are a royal PITA to work with (not that the machine will be opened up much - these would be for other family members anyway). For a basic internet browsing machine, which would you recommend? (and if getting the rosewill case, I'd pair it with an Antec Basiq 350W and a basic asus/gigabyte/msi/asrock motherboard)

The Rosewill case will be much easier to work in, and allows for the larger PSU. SFFs typically have 200-300 watt PSUs of dubious lineage.

[LiveBrianD]

Oh fyi, I think I edited that post a bit while you were replying, so you must not have seen that part.

The thing is, it's not like I'm using a Logisys power supply (480W, with a 3.3V and 5V heavy design, anyone? here). After all, I suspect the power supplies Foxconn uses are identical to the ones in OEM systems - good enough for basic use (I don't expect my grandparents to be overclocking or anything after all. ). I think CWT (as well as Liteon, Delta, and FSP) are pretty common in those.

In general though, for a basic machine that's not going to be opened and tinkered with much, which case would you recommend? After all, I wouldn't mind having a smaller case if I can get away with it.

Edit: Hmm, I'm not sure that I can put two hard drives in the Foxconn. Darn... What's the point of a 3.5" internal, 3.5" external, and 5.25" bay if there are only 2 sata ports? There's already a card reader built into the case after all... The main reason is for backups - my grandparents are notorious for unplugging things and having no idea how to put things back together. For instance, (and this has happened a few times), there was a DSL outage, and they hit the reset button on the router. Bad grandparents, bad! Then, it was a pain to have to try to help them reset it all over the phone. (they live an hour away) Or for instance, another DSL problem. My dad asked them if there was an unplugged cable. They said no. Eventually, they called over a local tech, and guess what... unplugged cable. Grrrr..... If I can get away with a pair of internal hard drive and RAID 1, that'd be best.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 01 June 2012 - 08:50 PM

[compnovo]

I'll see if I can reply to all your queries:
Regarding the Rosewill vs. the Antec Sonata, it's no contest. My Antec is as solidly built as yours appears to be. However, Rosewill did a very nice job of rolling all the edges on the interior --- no razors waiting for you. And I think the Rosewill is a good looking case, the only bling is the blue light around the power button. My wife and daughter-in-law love them. And get this: I stuffed two optical drives, two 2.5" hard drives (SSD and platter), a card reader, and my old AMD 5770 into that case, along with an Antec 430W PSU and a microATX board. Talk about a tight build - - but there is no way you can get all those goodies into the Foxconn. That's why I'm using an external drive for storage on the Foxconn.

Having said all that in favor of the Rosewill, I would lean toward the Foxconn for a grandparents build. Adequate power for their needs, economical because it comes with a mobo and PSU, compact and easy to tuck anywhere. Partition the drive and have Windows automatically back up to the storage partition and they're all set. Even the onboard graphics of the miniATX boards are enough for web surfers, and it helps keep the thermals under control.

There, did I miss anything?

[compnovo]

Oh, and here is the (discontinued) case that I used:
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16856119018

[LiveBrianD]

Yeah, that case looks fairly similar to the one I was looking at. So, is it comparable to the quality of the case on a big box machine? (which I'm fine with)

The thing is, I did the calculations, and it's about the same cost either way. $115 for the Foxconn SFF barebone, or $30 for an Antec Basiq, $30 for the case, and maybe this $55 motherboard: http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813157315 I might be building a machine like this for my grandfather, and I'll probably put a $10 card reader in his. (he currently uses the one on his HP AIO printer, but every time you turn that darn thing on, it wastes a bunch of ink cleaning itself) The Foxconn already has an SD card reader built in though. Fyi, I'm probably going to build a few of these.

I'm planning to stick with integrated graphics either way. However, I think I'd still need a second drive - if the main drive crashes, you're screwed. (Fyi, my grandmother just has a bunch of word docs on her computer and backs those up to a thumb drive, and my grandfather mainly has pictures which are backed up to CDs and DVDs, but I don't think their email is backed up... I hate POP3 sometimes... My grandmother currently has an SFF shuttle, one hard drive, and my grandfather has a mini-tower Dell, two hard drives in RAID 1.) I was wondering if network storage would be a good idea (get a router with a USB port and a cheap external drive), but then again, as I said, they're prone to unplugging things and having no idea how to fix them. I want to keep the number of support calls I get to a minimum! The home version of Windows also can't backup over the network, though I guess I could use syncback or easeus todo backup on a schedule for that.

I hope I'm not overwhelming you with questions, I just want to get a general feel of those options. (pun intended)

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 02 June 2012 - 10:02 AM

[LiveBrianD]

Say, with the Rosewill case, how effective is the front 120mm fan? I've heard that it has very little intake and is basically useless, and besides, there's a big vent on the side of it anyway.

[compnovo]

LiveBrianD, on 02 June 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Say, with the Rosewill case, how effective is the front 120mm fan? I've heard that it has very little intake and is basically useless, and besides, there's a big vent on the side of it anyway.

The air intake for the front fan is at the bottom of the bezel. I don't know how much air it pushes but it's quiet and doesn't cause any problems. My wife's PC is very quiet overall with the two case fans, the GPU and PSU fans. When she's happy I'm happy.

This post has been edited by compnovo: 02 June 2012 - 02:07 PM

[LiveBrianD]

How does it compare to the Antec? (and what speed is the case fan set on) Or the Foxconn?

[waldojim]

For something else to check out:
http://www.anandtech...ormable-miniitx

[compnovo]

LiveBrianD, on 02 June 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

How does it compare to the Antec? (and what speed is the case fan set on) Or the Foxconn?

By "it" do you mean the Rosewill case? I thought I answered that earlier: the Antecs are higher quality (but then they didn't cost 30 bucks either). The case fans in the Rosewill use molex connectors so they run at one speed only, and my Foxconn case didn't come with a fan.

[compnovo]

waldojim, on 02 June 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

For something else to check out:
http://www.anandtech...ormable-miniitx

Wow, that's a sexy little case.

[LiveBrianD]

compnovo, on 02 June 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 02 June 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

How does it compare to the Antec? (and what speed is the case fan set on) Or the Foxconn?

By "it" do you mean the Rosewill case? I thought I answered that earlier: the Antecs are higher quality (but then they didn't cost 30 bucks either). The case fans in the Rosewill use molex connectors so they run at one speed only, and my Foxconn case didn't come with a fan.

I'm talking about the airflow - how is it in the Foxconn. Idk, maybe I'm overthinking this. That shuttle has pretty crappy airflow - the only intake is a few vents on the side, and for outtake, there are heatpipes that go from the CPU to the back of the case, where there's a heatsink on it and an 80mm case fan. It's this, in case you were wondering: http://www.shuttle.e...der/en/ft61.htm

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 02 June 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

For something else to check out:
http://www.anandtech...ormable-miniitx

That's a bit too expensive though - I'd like to keep the total at about $400 or so, and don't think I can fit that in.

[compnovo]

LiveBrianD, on 02 June 2012 - 07:09 PM, said:

Idk, maybe I'm overthinking this.

You are DEFINITELY overthinking this.