[TheKingfish]

My other post is a natural segue to the above topic. I will share my directional thinking on products I know to be generally available and attractive, asking you to add/subtract to that thinking. A key first, I’ll describe my buying profile which is value-oriented. I have been a steadfast open-box new-product eBay tech buyer with minimal problems. Second tier product, my larger purchases are always models that were cutting-edge in their time, but are now off the shelf (one year or so). This works for me, as I buy a computer only every 6-9 years. Two more items -- the new box must have an optical/DVD drive and HP is off the table.

The L635 was the troubled past, and I should mention that it was actually my second returned unit (the first would freeze up, also exclusively on battery power). I view the Toshiba L735 as similarly attractive, but likely having the same battery/circuitry and mechanics. I am presently not considering the L735 model thinking I could run into same, but please feel free to correct my thinking. For as much personal research as I’ve done on the Toshibas, I cannot honestly tell you the difference between the L600/700 series (???).

I like the 13.3” screen product because it’s design-newer with attractive features. However, I don’t see much value in this segment beyond the Toshibas (maybe Dell Vostro). Like the representative L635, this carries a $400 eBay price tag.

Carrying less of a price premium, I like the 14” market because of its value. I can buy a Toshiba L745 for $340 and hope that it doesn’t also have battery-related issues. The other option is to jump a little higher in the 13.3” market toward a Toshiba Portege R705 ($500). A seemingly nice machine, but half-again higher priced. My pursuit decision currently comes down to these two product markets.

There are the comparable brand/models of course, but I am not seeing much intrinsic value beyond the Toshibas. In the 14” market there is some (Dell, Lenovo, Asus, Acer). I am open to reliable buying sources beyond eBay, where they exist. Any and all input on my comments is most appreciated.
Thank you,
TheKingfish

[LiveBrianD]

What do you use your computer for? For a basic budget machine, you might want to look into the Lenovo Ideapad Z470 (I don't recommend the model with the Celeron processor though) or the Thinkpad Edge E430.

[waldojim]

If you can find them on sale, the T410 or T420 would both make an excellent 14" notebook. You will have to hunt for one without a dedicated card. I am not sure how hard that will be to locate, but they are excellent machines.

Also, the IdeaPad Z370/470 would work. They aren't quite as nice as the ThinkPad line, but they are still decent machines.

EDIT: Asus also makes some fairly decent machines, I just don't know which models you would need to look into.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 03 June 2012 - 02:07 PM

[TheKingfish]

Computer use is very basic; surfing and email, no video or gaming. Looking for 4/250 memory minimums; speed inconsequential. Thanks for your feedback on the Lenovo product. It’s certainly something I would consider, just not presently in my eBay price range; a wait and see thing. I also like both Asus and Acer. Framed as a question, what do we think of the following three topics:

Sony VAIO.

Dell product. Strikes me as somewhat lower end, but they seem to have many offerings. Please share preferred models.

Manufacturer’s refurbished product. I like the concept and the reduced price, but not the typical warranty (90 days). A good value? The public generally seems not to like this genre.

In the current absence of open-box auction product, I have started to look at the used market. I would comparatively discount it by about 30%, but feel reasonably safe looking for descriptive terms like “mint” and “excellent.”
Thanks again for your help,
TheKingfish

[Dellinsp531]

I would go with IdeaPad Z470. Lenovo is a good manufacture.

I would stay away from Dell. I have had many problems with their computers and laptops that come in for repair.

Sony VAIO is decent but has had some models that have problems. Do you have a specific model in mind?

Manufacture refurbuished products are ok in most cases. I had clients that bought some from usually stores like Microcenter or from the manufacture. If you go this route, make sure to test the computer to see if it has any problems before the return policy expires. I had a few that need to be send back after it failled either RAM, harddrive, or graphics tests.

If you want to look into other options instead of just ebay, that you can look at Asus laptop at xoticpc.com:
http://www.xoticpc.c...s31-p-3571.html

This post has been edited by Dellinsp531: 06 June 2012 - 04:31 AM

[waldojim]

TheKingfish, on 06 June 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

Computer use is very basic; surfing and email, no video or gaming. Looking for 4/250 memory minimums; speed inconsequential. Thanks for your feedback on the Lenovo product. It’s certainly something I would consider, just not presently in my eBay price range; a wait and see thing. I also like both Asus and Acer. Framed as a question, what do we think of the following three topics:

Sony VAIO.

Dell product. Strikes me as somewhat lower end, but they seem to have many offerings. Please share preferred models.

Manufacturer’s refurbished product. I like the concept and the reduced price, but not the typical warranty (90 days). A good value? The public generally seems not to like this genre.

In the current absence of open-box auction product, I have started to look at the used market. I would comparatively discount it by about 30%, but feel reasonably safe looking for descriptive terms like “mint” and “excellent.”
Thanks again for your help,
TheKingfish

When going Sony, get a 3rd party warranty. I ended up with my Lenovo because of terrible service through Sony. I owned my laptop for about 30 days when the fan died. Sony decided to replace a motherboard, and over a month later (the parts will be here tomorrow - heard this for 3 weeks), I removed the repair choice from them. I gave them the option to replace, or send the money back. They opted to take 8 weeks to mail me a check. In the end, Sony left me without a machine for 3 months.

Dell machines just seem downright cheap.

As for refurbs, it depends on who you buy from. For example, most Apple and Lenovo refurbs still carry a full 1 year warranty. As such, I would easily trust both manufacturers. Coastie seems to have good luck with Gateway refurbs as well for what that is worth.

[LiveBrianD]

In my experience, Dell stuff is crap. I've seen multiple Dells - cheaper consumer models, more expensive business models, that all have had problems. I will never buy another Dell again. I have a Lenovo though, and no problems there. I had checked in their refurb center, but they were selling refurbs of the OLD model (x100e, I got the x120e) for the same price as a new one, so I bought a new x120e instead.

Acer stuff isn't great in my experience (for instance, the monitor I have), and I don't think I'd recommend them. ASUS stuff isn't bad - my mom has a UL50ag, and the build quality is good enough, though it creaks a little when opened and closed (come on, it's only 2.5 years old and it's never taken anywhere anyway!). Other than that, she hasn't had any problems with it.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 06 June 2012 - 11:06 AM

[TheKingfish]

Thanks for your feedback. Based on that, plus what I’ve learned along the way, I share my current bent. Dell is off the table. Selective Sony product is still on, but I’m more and more cognizant that it does not fit my value criteria. I.e., folks seem to pay for something that I’m not seeing. Your service concerns there are noted, plus other negative feedback says parts are both slow-coming and expensive. In the end, a Sony unit will need to be priced very attractively.

Refurbs. Bolstered by your positive feedback I still like them, but because of their source (manufacturer/authorized seller) I feel they’re somewhat akin to the retail market. That is, they are priced some-percentage less than new, but do not benefit from the more competitive regimen that eBay represents. However, they serve as an excellent baseline and value can be had there.

As suggested, I did go to the alternative Asus laptop site; unfortunately prices there came in a bit above my range. My radar screen is still focused on Acer, Lenovo and Asus; generally in that order. The eBay used-market received a small lift for me as I became familiar with an inexpensive laptop warranty they offer via Square Trade (3 years, extended manufacturer type terms); coverage cost based on auction price. I have a hunch this second-party coverage is subsidized by the parent to promote the obvious. Works on the peace-of-mind street level though……

BTW As an ultimate anchor to this thread, I definitely plan to share my eventual purchase details with the forum (brand/model/price). The culmination of this dialog, as it were. Your continued thoughts are most welcome.
Thanks,
TheKingfish

[compnovo]

TheKingfish, on 09 June 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

My radar screen is still focused on Acer, Lenovo and Asus; generally in that order...

I'm reluctant to make a recommendation because I may have the only reliable Acer in the universe, but I've had good luck with the Aspire One netbook I bought two years ago. The RAM and the HDD were upgraded but the rest of the hardware is stock and I haven't had any reason to complain. I've also been more fortunate than LiveB with monitors, I've had three Acers that have been good performers. Acer sells budget hardware that doesn't compare to the high end stuff on the market, but I'm a Toyota kind of guy so it works for me.

[LiveBrianD]

Idk, maybe I'm expecting a bit too much out of that budget Acer monitor. (but still - HP has similar ones that cost $10 more and look quite a bit better OOTB...)

[TheKingfish]

Yeah I appreciate the Acer feedback and have heard the micro stories, including the helpful posts herein. In the macro world (Consumer Reports), the laptop repair-history leaders are Toshiba, Acer and Lenovo. Sony is mid-pack and HP and Dell are on the bottom; although in defense, the numeric gap is not large.

Lenovo holds just beyond my price range, but an auction-block opportunity could come along. Speaking of – all of the very prolific ThinkPads (but not IdeaPads) seem to have the center-keyboard little red joystick (TrackPoint). This is very much from the past and a perceived negative feature for me. Any insight there?

Acer and Asus remain the budget-unit leaders for me, with the former featuring strong battery life. Toshiba has been a personal burn, plus I have also actually come to prefer the chicklet key-design of the others.
Thanks,
TheKingfish

[LiveBrianD]

Personally, I like the pointing stick on my Thinkpad, now that I've gotten used to it. That said, if you don't like it, you can simply ignore it. (or disable it) Not a big deal. I know a guy with a Toshiba that had some overheating issues due to a design flaw. (an older Pentium 4 one though) Also, a lot of the budget Toshiba laptops I've seen ran warm and felt cheap compared to some of the others.

[TheKingfish]

As promised I’m providing final follow up, ending my rather arduous eBay quest to purchase a budget laptop. True to that pursuit, I bought a brand-new Asus #X44L-BBK2, 14” screen unit. Based on the Intel Dual Core i3 chip, this model was released in early 2010. Details:

4/320 GB RAM/HD / Win 7 / 2.1 GHz processor / 6-cell battery / DVD/RW / $350

I had a shot at comparable used-product under $300, but there’s always some peace of mind with the liberal new-product return policy and the manufacturers one-year warranty. This unit is for my wife, and she’s less a gambler than I. This model (w/4-cell battery) got just over $400 at Best Buy, so that fifty bucks buys a few beers. Again, thanks to all on the forum for taking the time to help me; your input was much appreciated.
TheKingfish

[compnovo]

TheKingfish, on 12 June 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

As promised I’m providing final follow up, ending my rather arduous eBay quest to purchase a budget laptop. True to that pursuit, I bought a brand-new Asus #X44L-BBK2, 14” screen unit. Based on the Intel Dual Core i3 chip, this model was released in early 2010. Details:

4/320 GB RAM/HD / Win 7 / 2.1 GHz processor / 6-cell battery / DVD/RW / $350

I had a shot at comparable used-product under $300, but there’s always some peace of mind with the liberal new-product return policy and the manufacturers one-year warranty. This unit is for my wife, and she’s less a gambler than I. This model (w/4-cell battery) got just over $400 at Best Buy, so that fifty bucks buys a few beers. Again, thanks to all on the forum for taking the time to help me; your input was much appreciated.
TheKingfish

Congratulations on your new purchase, I'm sure your wife will be very happy with it.

[LiveBrianD]

Looks good.

[TheKingfish]

Yeah, the brand new laptop arrived and is quite nice. I wish I could say that third-time is a charm, but it hasn’t worked out that way. Yesterday I was doing set-up chores and downloads without issue, then later the wireless connection went down (???). Two other household laptops connect without issue, so there’s that. I proceeded to do the prescribed troubleshooting function with a router-connected Ethernet cable; without resolution. Then there’s the USB 3.0 port; it also doesn’t work.

So, I am headed down the road of Asus Support for a way out of the maze. I’m hopeful that both issues are the result of some late-day installed Asus driver updates, but one can’t be sure. You probably know the overall feeling -- like maybe these things should be easier.....
TheKingfish

[LiveBrianD]

Driver updates are certainly the first thing I would try.

[TheKingfish]

More follow up. I never called Asus Support, as both problems (connectivity and USB 3.0 port malfunction) resolved themselves. Prepping for the aforementioned call, I set out to verify and document the connectivity problem. Unexpectedly, I found connectivity to be good.

I will share my overall experience as it may help future Asus buyers. I had been prompted to download 15 recommended Asus manufacturer-updates (there were zero critical updates). I did so and the full quantity appeared to have come in successfully. I was prompted to do a restart for the installation of same, but was warned that further restarts might be necessary to capture everything. I did several restarts, noticing another Asus prompt that suggested only 13 of the 15 updates had originally arrived (???).

With the renewed connectivity mentioned earlier, two additional updates were prompted and downloaded (one was specifically for the USB 3.0). Operationally all was good after that. Here’s what I think happened. Unlike a mass-install that is typical of MS updates, Asus updates are constructed to install in a layered fashion, one after the other. While frustrating and repetitive, it is likely I did exactly 15 restarts and eventually accomplished all tasks that were needed.

So I am now in monitor mode, keenly watching all performance aspects of the machine. Like I said, so far everything is good. I will keep you apprised. As always, thanks for your prompt and thoughtful feedback.
TheKingfish