[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Vizio's Ultrabook PCs: Real MacBook Air Rivals, at Last? here

[karld1995]

As a macbook pro user(at present, i've used Windows before, mostly windows actually) i have to say, i'm impressed by Vizio and I have to say they will most likely be one of my considerations on my next purchase. They may just be on the verge of bursting the Apple bubble. If Vizio can come out powerful enough, it could be dangerous. APPL shares are down 0.22% as Vizio spreads as news around the world at the moment which shows Apple shareholders aren't all too happy keeping their shares there when Vizio is about. Yet again, Apple loose out to their price. It seems to a repetitive error which apple are reluctant to fix. Cook said Apple have "too much money on their books" While a lot of people say it's a hint at dividends being paid out i think it was a hint at him re-thinking the pricing structures he re-hinted and he was afraid a Vizio could emerge, well if i'm correct(which I believe I am) then Cook's nightmare just started to become a reality. Just how will he catch up, could he release a low cost mini iPad to scare of the competition and make a statement "I'm not afraid to play the pricing game", this could cause competition think as they'll know Apple has more money than them to play with. I don't think he'll subsidize products but I do think he'll lower profit margins on lower-end products and perhaps create new ranges with lower prices but good quality just to give his investors the confidence that if he is rivaled, he will fight back. The question now is, if Vizio make the right moves can Cook make the correct re-actions or will he make blunders under pressure?

[KLanD]

They look nice, but I'm waiting for the reviews.

[CLPDAN]

What people fail to understand over and over and over again, and I'm sure the smart Apple investor does understand, is that these nice machines will not be competitors to the Mac unless and until I can install Mac OS X operating system on them. These look like MacBook machines but they do not run the OS X operating system. Therefore, a fail for a Mac user.

karld1995, on 15 June 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

As a macbook pro user(at present, i've used Windows before, mostly windows actually) i have to say, i'm impressed by Vizio and I have to say they will most likely be one of my considerations on my next purchase. They may just be on the verge of bursting the Apple bubble. If Vizio can come out powerful enough, it could be dangerous. APPL shares are down 0.22% as Vizio spreads as news around the world at the moment which shows Apple shareholders aren't all too happy keeping their shares there when Vizio is about. Yet again, Apple loose out to their price. It seems to a repetitive error which apple are reluctant to fix. Cook said Apple have "too much money on their books" While a lot of people say it's a hint at dividends being paid out i think it was a hint at him re-thinking the pricing structures he re-hinted and he was afraid a Vizio could emerge, well if i'm correct(which I believe I am) then Cook's nightmare just started to become a reality. Just how will he catch up, could he release a low cost mini iPad to scare of the competition and make a statement "I'm not afraid to play the pricing game", this could cause competition think as they'll know Apple has more money than them to play with. I don't think he'll subsidize products but I do think he'll lower profit margins on lower-end products and perhaps create new ranges with lower prices but good quality just to give his investors the confidence that if he is rivaled, he will fight back. The question now is, if Vizio make the right moves can Cook make the correct re-actions or will he make blunders under pressure?

[KLanD]

CLPDAN, on 15 June 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

What people fail to understand over and over and over again, and I'm sure the smart Apple investor does understand, is that these nice machines will not be competitors to the Mac unless and until I can install Mac OS X operating system on them. These look like MacBook machines but they do not run the OS X operating system. Therefore, a fail for a Mac user.

I agree, but if Apple let other makers put OSX on their machines, their PC department would go bankrupt in a couple years.

If you could get OSX on one of these machines I can guarantee a lot of people would choose these over a MBP.

[Gnostradamus]

3.4 lbs is not as heavy as a traditional laptop, but it's breaking the ceiling for a "light" ultrabook. The 15" is almost 4 lbs, so I won't even consider it.

With a rated battery life of as little as 5.5 hours for the 256GB SSD version, it's not exactly leave-your-charger-behind kind of experience either.

These laptops leave much to be desired. Vizio has cut corners, and I for one can't accept them.

[karld1995]

CLPDAN, on 15 June 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

What people fail to understand over and over and over again, and I'm sure the smart Apple investor does understand, is that these nice machines will not be competitors to the Mac unless and until I can install Mac OS X operating system on them. These look like MacBook machines but they do not run the OS X operating system. Therefore, a fail for a Mac user.

karld1995, on 15 June 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

As a macbook pro user(at present, i've used Windows before, mostly windows actually) i have to say, i'm impressed by Vizio and I have to say they will most likely be one of my considerations on my next purchase. They may just be on the verge of bursting the Apple bubble. If Vizio can come out powerful enough, it could be dangerous. APPL shares are down 0.22% as Vizio spreads as news around the world at the moment which shows Apple shareholders aren't all too happy keeping their shares there when Vizio is about. Yet again, Apple loose out to their price. It seems to a repetitive error which apple are reluctant to fix. Cook said Apple have "too much money on their books" While a lot of people say it's a hint at dividends being paid out i think it was a hint at him re-thinking the pricing structures he re-hinted and he was afraid a Vizio could emerge, well if i'm correct(which I believe I am) then Cook's nightmare just started to become a reality. Just how will he catch up, could he release a low cost mini iPad to scare of the competition and make a statement "I'm not afraid to play the pricing game", this could cause competition think as they'll know Apple has more money than them to play with. I don't think he'll subsidize products but I do think he'll lower profit margins on lower-end products and perhaps create new ranges with lower prices but good quality just to give his investors the confidence that if he is rivaled, he will fight back. The question now is, if Vizio make the right moves can Cook make the correct re-actions or will he make blunders under pressure?

Not necessarily that it needs Mac OSX, it's not all it's cracked up to be. Granted it doesn't crash as much as Windows but if Vizio came out with their own os(right move) and rival OS X which is possible then it could be over for Apple. You appear to be talking with your emotions rather than your rationality. Apple investors know the bubble will burst and the smarter ones now know who's the threat, Vizio. When Dell came up in 04 and 07, notice how Apple weren't too worried. They had the price but not the quality so weren't a threat to Apple as it was a different market. Here we've a different story, Vizio have the price, design quality and spec quality. A person likely to be using such PC should have the knowledge to adapt a Linux distro to their needs fairly quickly. My view is that Apple users can often be too confident in Apple. Saying the Apple bubble won't burst is akin to those who said Irish celtic tiger was a model to the world, look where Ireland is now. Apple is going to have its bubble burst soon and I've a feeling Vizio will be the pin. Trust me Vizio know what they are doing and people with rational know they are testing the waters now, the big bang is yet to come from Vizio and the smart investor knows that.

[riffdex]

karld1995, on 15 June 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

As a macbook pro user(at present, i've used Windows before, mostly windows actually) i have to say, i'm impressed by Vizio and I have to say they will most likely be one of my considerations on my next purchase. They may just be on the verge of bursting the Apple bubble. If Vizio can come out powerful enough, it could be dangerous. APPL shares are down 0.22% as Vizio spreads as news around the world at the moment which shows Apple shareholders aren't all too happy keeping their shares there when Vizio is about. Yet again, Apple loose out to their price. It seems to a repetitive error which apple are reluctant to fix. Cook said Apple have "too much money on their books" While a lot of people say it's a hint at dividends being paid out i think it was a hint at him re-thinking the pricing structures he re-hinted and he was afraid a Vizio could emerge, well if i'm correct(which I believe I am) then Cook's nightmare just started to become a reality. Just how will he catch up, could he release a low cost mini iPad to scare of the competition and make a statement "I'm not afraid to play the pricing game", this could cause competition think as they'll know Apple has more money than them to play with. I don't think he'll subsidize products but I do think he'll lower profit margins on lower-end products and perhaps create new ranges with lower prices but good quality just to give his investors the confidence that if he is rivaled, he will fight back. The question now is, if Vizio make the right moves can Cook make the correct re-actions or will he make blunders under pressure?

Apple's power is in their brand and the premium pricing they can charge. Releasing a $250 is a horrible idea as Apple prices the iPads for about a 50% profit margin. AKA they would have to produce a tablet for $125 if they were going to sell it for $250. The screen in the current iPad alone costs more than $100. Even with a smaller screen, that's going to be the most expensive part of the iPad and will wipe out most of that $125 limit for components and assembly. A $250 iPad "Mini" would have to be lower specs and significantly cheaper than Amazon's Kindle Fire, which is selling for $199.99 (By most estimates, Amazon is selling Fire's at a slight loss per unit - with the expectation of gaining revenue through cloud and other online services). If Amazon is making the Kindle Fire for $205, and selling for $200, I doubt Apple could make a comparable device for $125 and sell for $250. Might I add that recently demand for the Kindle Fire (aka pretty much the best low-priced tablet out there currently) has been lackluster to say the least. Why would Apple want to get involved in a market where there is no demand, and the margins are razor thin? I can guarantee you, Apple will NEVER produce a product they expect to sell at 5-15% profit margins, they aim for 25%-50% margins in almost every product they make. Their recent products have margins of 50%.

As for Apple shares opening slightly lower today, I hardly think that has anything to do with fears about Vizio. (For the record, Apple shares ended the day higher about 0.45%, and even went up in after hours trading). Even if Vizio manages to take some laptop sales away from Apple, that isn't the end of Apple. As any investor should know, Apple's revenue has become less and less dependent on Mac sales and the largest portion of revenue coming from iPhone sales and the second largest source from iPad sales. Together the iPhone and iPad businesses make up now two-thirds of Apple's sales. The iPad now makes up more revenue than the entire Mac line. In fact, the iPad surpassed overall Mac sales within two years of even being introduced to the public. As I'm sure you know, Mac sales are no longer crucial to Apple's business (and as time goes on they will become less and less crucial to the bottom line) so I'm not exactly worried about Apple losing a few Mac sales. I'm having trouble understanding the strategy of Apple releasing a low margin product that directly competes with their second most profitable business. That's simply going backwards. Macs have margins of about 25%, and when Apple released the iPad, they knew it would compete with Macs on some level. Aka some people might opt for an iPad instead of a Mac. That's no problem for Apple. They make much higher margins on iPads. If you think they are willing to go from 50% margins to 10% margins on a low-priced iPad, you are dreaming. If they try to make a $250 iPad and maintain their margins, the product will fail because $125 is not enough to make a halfway decent tablet, at least not with the current technology.

[Mikehxd3]

You do realize that Mac OSX is the result of decades of continuous development right? Building a nice box is easy enough, building an OS and ecosystem to drive that box is another story. Vizio can't build an OS that "rivals Mac OSX" just like that. They need time, money, and blind faith that people will adopt and accept their solution...which needs to be more compelling than what Apple, Microsoft, and Google already have to offer. Tough task. Microsoft and Google are already trying to go in that direction...to "control the whole widget" like Apple does. Microsoft is clinging to Windows 8 as their last hope for desktops and tablets. Google desperately wants to lock down Android to just a few manufacturers. They also tried and failed their Chromebook experiment (they were practically giving those things away at those prices...and nobody bit). Apple will see a decline eventually (all empires inevitably fall), but not anytime soon. They don't play that race-to-the-bottom game that almost every PC manufacturer needs to gamble on to compete/survive. They don't have to. They build well designed, high quality products that rate stupendously high on consumer satisfaction surveys (hard to imagine another company today that can command so much loyalty from their user base). Then there's the developer community (the best compensated in the business), and an ecosystem that has no equal. The restraint they have when it comes to developing their product lines allows them to fine-tune/standardize their manufacturing process with each iteration and take advantage of lower costs on bulk component orders. They write the book when it comes to managing a supply chain. This is how they were able to sell a MacBook Air for under 1k and throw the entire industry into a panic (enough for intel to offer a reward to the first manufacturer to match the Air on price/spec). Vizio is now just another company attempting to do what no other PC maker has been able to do in almost 4 years (the Air was introduced in 2008 believe it or not). How it performs or sells remains TBD, but it's safe to say they are still playing catchup like the rest of the industry. Apple's Retina display will probably find its way into the Air/iMac next year and will likely see the nice price drop once they standardize the process (this MacBook Pro version out now is, in essence, just a preparation exercise for what's coming down the pike). Do you see Vizio's offering even coming close to the demand a Retina display MacBook air would command? Especially if they cut the price down to 1k-1.5k? I don't. Btw, restraint is their biggest strength. For that reason alone, Apple will never release an "iPad Mini". If people want a 7 inch tablet they can go out and buy a Kindle Fire, regret their decision a day later, and then pick up an iPad like they intended. I'm not even being a wise-ass about that, I've seen it happen twice already (actually, it was a Nook Color in that other case...same thing really haha).

karld1995, on 15 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

CLPDAN, on 15 June 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

What people fail to understand over and over and over again, and I'm sure the smart Apple investor does understand, is that these nice machines will not be competitors to the Mac unless and until I can install Mac OS X operating system on them. These look like MacBook machines but they do not run the OS X operating system. Therefore, a fail for a Mac user.

karld1995, on 15 June 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

As a macbook pro user(at present, i've used Windows before, mostly windows actually) i have to say, i'm impressed by Vizio and I have to say they will most likely be one of my considerations on my next purchase. They may just be on the verge of bursting the Apple bubble. If Vizio can come out powerful enough, it could be dangerous. APPL shares are down 0.22% as Vizio spreads as news around the world at the moment which shows Apple shareholders aren't all too happy keeping their shares there when Vizio is about. Yet again, Apple loose out to their price. It seems to a repetitive error which apple are reluctant to fix. Cook said Apple have "too much money on their books" While a lot of people say it's a hint at dividends being paid out i think it was a hint at him re-thinking the pricing structures he re-hinted and he was afraid a Vizio could emerge, well if i'm correct(which I believe I am) then Cook's nightmare just started to become a reality. Just how will he catch up, could he release a low cost mini iPad to scare of the competition and make a statement "I'm not afraid to play the pricing game", this could cause competition think as they'll know Apple has more money than them to play with. I don't think he'll subsidize products but I do think he'll lower profit margins on lower-end products and perhaps create new ranges with lower prices but good quality just to give his investors the confidence that if he is rivaled, he will fight back. The question now is, if Vizio make the right moves can Cook make the correct re-actions or will he make blunders under pressure?

Not necessarily that it needs Mac OSX, it's not all it's cracked up to be. Granted it doesn't crash as much as Windows but if Vizio came out with their own os(right move) and rival OS X which is possible then it could be over for Apple. You appear to be talking with your emotions rather than your rationality. Apple investors know the bubble will burst and the smarter ones now know who's the threat, Vizio. When Dell came up in 04 and 07, notice how Apple weren't too worried. They had the price but not the quality so weren't a threat to Apple as it was a different market. Here we've a different story, Vizio have the price, design quality and spec quality. A person likely to be using such PC should have the knowledge to adapt a Linux distro to their needs fairly quickly. My view is that Apple users can often be too confident in Apple. Saying the Apple bubble won't burst is akin to those who said Irish celtic tiger was a model to the world, look where Ireland is now. Apple is going to have its bubble burst soon and I've a feeling Vizio will be the pin. Trust me Vizio know what they are doing and people with rational know they are testing the waters now, the big bang is yet to come from Vizio and the smart investor knows that.

[riffdex]

Mikehxd3, on 15 June 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

You do realize that Mac OSX is the result of decades of continuous development right? Building a nice box is easy enough, building an OS and ecosystem to drive that box is another story. Vizio can't build an OS that "rivals Mac OSX" just like that. They need time, money, and blind faith that people will adopt and accept their solution...which needs to be more compelling than what Apple, Microsoft, and Google already have to offer. Tough task. Microsoft and Google are already trying to go in that direction...to "control the whole widget" like Apple does. Microsoft is clinging to Windows 8 as their last hope for desktops and tablets. Google desperately wants to lock down Android to just a few manufacturers. They also tried and failed their Chromebook experiment (they were practically giving those things away at those prices...and nobody bit). Apple will see a decline eventually (all empires inevitably fall), but not anytime soon. They don't play that race-to-the-bottom game that almost every PC manufacturer needs to gamble on to compete/survive. They don't have to. They build well designed, high quality products that rate stupendously high on consumer satisfaction surveys (hard to imagine another company today that can command so much loyalty from their user base). Then there's the developer community (the best compensated in the business), and an ecosystem that has no equal. The restraint they have when it comes to developing their product lines allows them to fine-tune/standardize their manufacturing process with each iteration and take advantage of lower costs on bulk component orders. They write the book when it comes to managing a supply chain. This is how they were able to sell a MacBook Air for under 1k and throw the entire industry into a panic (enough for intel to offer a reward to the first manufacturer to match the Air on price/spec). Vizio is now just another company attempting to do what no other PC maker has been able to do in almost 4 years (the Air was introduced in 2008 believe it or not). How it performs or sells remains TBD, but it's safe to say they are still playing catchup like the rest of the industry. Apple's Retina display will probably find its way into the Air/iMac next year and will likely see the nice price drop once they standardize the process (this MacBook Pro version out now is, in essence, just a preparation exercise for what's coming down the pike). Do you see Vizio's offering even coming close to the demand a Retina display MacBook air would command? Especially if they cut the price down to 1k-1.5k? I don't. Btw, restraint is their biggest strength. For that reason alone, Apple will never release an "iPad Mini". If people want a 7 inch tablet they can go out and buy a Kindle Fire, regret their decision a day later, and then pick up an iPad like they intended. I'm not even being a wise-ass about that, I've seen it happen twice already (actually, it was a Nook Color in that other case...same thing really haha).

Totally agree with your assessment. If Vizio wanted to make their own OS for personal computers, not only would it take years of development but it would be a horrible move strategically, as that market is clearly in decline. Not to mention the fact that OS development is a dramatic deviation from Vizio's core business. It would be like Ford getting into the oil business.

Their products are related yes, but it doesn't mean the company will be any good at the related business. (Some people might point out that when Apple announced the iPhone, it was ridiculous to think that a computer and MP3 player company was getting involved in the phones market. While it is true that Apple was successful in an area outside it's core business at the time, that was more of the exception to the rule. MOST companies that get involved in businesses outside of their core business end up failing in their new venture).

As for Apple not playing the "race to the bottom" game, you hit that nail right on the head. Apple is all about image, the brand name, and premium pricing. They aren't very concerned about the low-end markets, at least not those where margins are thin. (They did pursue low-price markets in certain cases such as iPods in the past, but even then they were getting about 50% margins on these low-price devices). Releasing an iPad mini would go against Apple's strategy of high quality and high margins. They would have to sacrifice one of those to release a $250 iPad. Just to get into a stagnant market.

[KarlSteinborn]

What people fail to understand, is that you can indeed install OS X on computers other than Macs. Holy Crap! It's crazy, right??!?!?! Basically since Apple started using Intel processors it's opened up a whole new world. Granted it takes a little bit of effort and some computer knowledge, but you can indeed install OSX on many different computers. I'm currently running OSX on a computer that I built myself. Don't get me wrong---- I love my MacBook Pro! I think it's overpriced as hell, but am willing to pay it out of convenience. Now that these vizios look like legit competitors I probably will get one. I will probably be able to get OSX on it too.

KLanD, on 15 June 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

CLPDAN, on 15 June 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

What people fail to understand over and over and over again, and I'm sure the smart Apple investor does understand, is that these nice machines will not be competitors to the Mac unless and until I can install Mac OS X operating system on them. These look like MacBook machines but they do not run the OS X operating system. Therefore, a fail for a Mac user.

I agree, but if Apple let other makers put OSX on their machines, their PC department would go bankrupt in a couple years.

If you could get OSX on one of these machines I can guarantee a lot of people would choose these over a MBP.

[riffdex]

KarlSteinborn, on 17 June 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

What people fail to understand, is that you can indeed install OS X on computers other than Macs. Holy Crap! It's crazy, right??!?!?! Basically since Apple started using Intel processors it's opened up a whole new world. Granted it takes a little bit of effort and some computer knowledge, but you can indeed install OSX on many different computers. I'm currently running OSX on a computer that I built myself. Don't get me wrong---- I love my MacBook Pro! I think it's overpriced as hell, but am willing to pay it out of convenience. Now that these vizios look like legit competitors I probably will get one. I will probably be able to get OSX on it too.

KLanD, on 15 June 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

CLPDAN, on 15 June 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

What people fail to understand over and over and over again, and I'm sure the smart Apple investor does understand, is that these nice machines will not be competitors to the Mac unless and until I can install Mac OS X operating system on them. These look like MacBook machines but they do not run the OS X operating system. Therefore, a fail for a Mac user.

I agree, but if Apple let other makers put OSX on their machines, their PC department would go bankrupt in a couple years.

If you could get OSX on one of these machines I can guarantee a lot of people would choose these over a MBP.

It is true that it is possible to get OSX on a computer by a different manufacturer, but it's a big difference being able to install OSX aftermarket and being able to buy a computer with the OS already on (and optimized for the hardware, I might add). The fact of the matter is, OSX appeals largely to a group of consumers who don't WANT to need specialized computer knowledge, and they don't WANT to have to make changes after they buy the computer. Whether it be minor changes (installing a new OS, tracking down software/drivers, etc) or major changes (hardware). The fact that Apple does not license it's Mac OS to other hardware manufacturers is very important to their success in the PC market. If you are pitting a Vizio laptop (with OSX pre-installed and optimized for the hardware) against an Apple laptop (with OSX pre-installed and optimized for the hardware, AND is a few hundred dollars extra), assuming the design and specs are very similar, the choice is obvious. When you compare a Vizio laptop to a similar design and specs Apple laptop, but the Vizio has Windows pre-installed vs the Apple having Mac OSX pre-installed (more pricey), the choice isn't so obvious for some consumers. Many people would opt for the more expensive laptop with Mac OSX pre-installed. Apple has strength in the fact that it's core fanbase is consumers who don't want to have to modify the system, they want something that "just works". An Apple fan simply won't want to have to buy a Vizio laptop, install OSX, optimize the system for the hardware, etc.

For the record, I am the type of consumer who likes to make changes to my computer, whether it be upgrading RAM, tweaking the OS, etc. I use Windows 7, and don't like Mac OSX just due to personal preference. I have considered buying a MacBook Air in the past (and installing Windows 7 onto it) just due to the superior design. However, it seems like some of the PC manufacturers are finally catching up with Apple on design so I may be able to save a few bucks and just buy a Vizio laptop. I am due for a PC upgrade.

Having said that, I still recognize that most Apple fans would not like to buy a well-designed PC and go through the trouble of installing OSX afterward. For the sake of convenience (and perhaps, a lack of know-how when it comes to modifying computers), these customers will buy Apple laptops regardless of the competition making beautiful laptops. Please don't misconstrue what I mean by this though. I understand that not ALL Mac users are incompetent when it comes to modifying OS or computer hardware. I just feel one of the big pulls for Apple computers is that having this know-how is completely unnecessary. Are consumers willing to pay more for this convenience? I think Apple's quarterly financial reports show that the answer is a resounding yes.

[Liftline]

As a PC agnostic who uses Windows and Mac systems, I must now say that the the OS war is largely a draw. Whenever I hear people dissing Windows these days its usually based on the old XP and the wretched Vista...not Windows 7.

Personally, I've come to prefer Win 7 over the Mac for a lot of reasons. The most significant of those is the level of customization, something that many Mac users don't appear to care about much.

I like the family's big iMac 27 for its wonderful screen, my MacBook Air for its portability and solid design, (and our iPad2 simply because its just a blast to use.)

But I prefer to work in Windows 7, because its stable, capable and flexible. I like the aesthetics too...but that's a subjective thing. So I use my Windows laptop and older desktop while the rest of the family sticks with Apple for now.

I think that Apple's Mac hardware designs have been more appealing than the Mac OS. Now that Vizio is moving in on that design niche effectively, I doubt that the Mac OS will really stand up any longer as a major competitive advantage for Apple. Windows is just as functional and appealing now, and some of us just don't like how the Mac works.

[riffdex]

Liftline, on 17 June 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

As a PC agnostic who uses Windows and Mac systems, I must now say that the the OS war is largely a draw. Whenever I hear people dissing Windows these days its usually based on the old XP and the wretched Vista...not Windows 7.

Personally, I've come to prefer Win 7 over the Mac for a lot of reasons. The most significant of those is the level of customization, something that many Mac users don't appear to care about much.

I like the family's big iMac 27 for its wonderful screen, my MacBook Air for its portability and solid design, (and our iPad2 simply because its just a blast to use.)

But I prefer to work in Windows 7, because its stable, capable and flexible. I like the aesthetics too...but that's a subjective thing. So I use my Windows laptop and older desktop while the rest of the family sticks with Apple for now.

I think that Apple's Mac hardware designs have been more appealing than the Mac OS. Now that Vizio is moving in on that design niche effectively, I doubt that the Mac OS will really stand up any longer as a major competitive advantage for Apple. Windows is just as functional and appealing now, and some of us just don't like how the Mac works.

The choice of OS comes down to personal preference. Some people prefer PC, some people prefer Mac. Some people use Windows because that's what their work uses (but would have otherwise chosen Mac). Some people use Macs because that's what their uncle gave them when he upgraded his computer (but they actually prefer Windows). As for customization, it is my theory that a great portion of Mac users are such because they feel they shouldn't need to tweak the OS or settings, it should come out of the box working the right way. (this is how many Mac users feel, not me personally). The Mac is the whole package, hardware and software. If someone has been using Mac computers for ten years, I doubt they'd switch to Windows 7 simply because a PC manufacturer finally designed a laptop that is similar in design to a Macbook. I prefer Windows 7, and would never use Mac OS. But I can certainly recognize the mindset of those who use Mac OS. They want simplicity, they want integrated hardware and software from the second they first turn on the computer. They want a big Apple logo on the back of the computer d: But anyways, I can tell you that simply because a manufacturer finally makes a laptop designed like the Macbook, Mac users are not going to leave the Mac in droves. These users are there because they like Mac OS, they like the hardware, they like the whole package. They like Apple customer support. They like the quality of Apple products. They like little innovations like the magnetic power cord. Etc. They don't want to have to buy a Vizio laptop and then install OSX themselves. They are Mac users for a reason. They want a computer that "just works" out of the box. No modifications required.

[roadrash5155]

Is there a reason why the damn thing has to look like an Air?

Good God, please stop stealing everything from Apple you lazy companies.

[Gnostradamus]

roadrash5155, on 17 June 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Is there a reason why the damn thing has to look like an Air?

Good God, please stop stealing everything from Apple you lazy companies.

Is there any reason you're spamming "PC World" with your love messages to Apple, a company? Good God, please stop acting like it's your sugardaddy.

[KLanD]

KarlSteinborn, on 17 June 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

What people fail to understand, is that you can indeed install OS X on computers other than Macs. Holy Crap! It's crazy, right??!?!?! Basically since Apple started using Intel processors it's opened up a whole new world. Granted it takes a little bit of effort and some computer knowledge, but you can indeed install OSX on many different computers. I'm currently running OSX on a computer that I built myself. Don't get me wrong---- I love my MacBook Pro! I think it's overpriced as hell, but am willing to pay it out of convenience. Now that these vizios look like legit competitors I probably will get one. I will probably be able to get OSX on it too.

KLanD, on 15 June 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

CLPDAN, on 15 June 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

What people fail to understand over and over and over again, and I'm sure the smart Apple investor does understand, is that these nice machines will not be competitors to the Mac unless and until I can install Mac OS X operating system on them. These look like MacBook machines but they do not run the OS X operating system. Therefore, a fail for a Mac user.

I agree, but if Apple let other makers put OSX on their machines, their PC department would go bankrupt in a couple years.

If you could get OSX on one of these machines I can guarantee a lot of people would choose these over a MBP.

And what you fail to understand is that 3rd parties cannot sell their own made laptops with OSX on them. Most people don't want to put in the effort.

[bearsfolks]

I don't understand why there is such a buzz about the Vizio Ultrabooks. I had been looking forward to their introduction, and was extremely disappointed by both their specs as well as their price, which does not match the Vizio image. I use the Toshiba Portege Z835, and, compared to it, the Vizio is heavier and lacks an Ethernet port and a VGA port, both of which add to the versatility of the Toshiba. The Vizio has a better screen, but when I am on the road (which to me is the main use of the Ultrabooks)that is of much less importance. The only reason why I'm still looking for an Ultrabook is because, unlike its past products,the Toshiba has a lousy keyboard and touchpad (but then so apparently does the Vizio), and it only comes with a 128GB SSD, while Vizio does offer a 256GB also. In fact, there are several other brands of Ultrabooks that have specs comparable to the Vizio. So, why the hoopla about this introduction?

[BruceBookAir]

PC World obviously has a vested interest in promotion of windows OS and hardware. Over the years, it has never failed to amaze me at how many times the demise of Apple products and the OS has been predicted by this magazine. With each new Microsoft OS here we go again. Like the girl in the forest crying wolf. Give it a rest. IF you really have, and use both apple and windows on a daily basis, you know the real truth. The apple system is faster, easier, and better in so many ways.
One blogger made the point about somone buying a Kindle or Nook instead of the IPad, or IPod,,,so true, they will be sorry that they didn't get the REAL DEAL. There truely is no comparison. Try this test: 3 to 6 year old Grand kids or kids,,,on the internet,,,some on a windows PC 7 and the others on an I mac or IPad,,,I would be amazed if the PC lasted 1 day without locking up,,,the IMac,,,never an issue. How do I know? Experience. Apple OS is many times better than MS. My Mac Book air starts in about 14-15 seconds every time and shuts down in less than 2,,,Can you say that about ANY MS PC? No way.

[BruceBookAir]

riffdex, on 16 June 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Mikehxd3, on 15 June 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

You do realize that Mac OSX is the result of decades of continuous development right? Building a nice box is easy enough, building an OS and ecosystem to drive that box is another story. Vizio can't build an OS that "rivals Mac OSX" just like that. They need time, money, and blind faith that people will adopt and accept their solution...which needs to be more compelling than what Apple, Microsoft, and Google already have to offer. Tough task. Microsoft and Google are already trying to go in that direction...to "control the whole widget" like Apple does. Microsoft is clinging to Windows 8 as their last hope for desktops and tablets. Google desperately wants to lock down Android to just a few manufacturers. They also tried and failed their Chromebook experiment (they were practically giving those things away at those prices...and nobody bit). Apple will see a decline eventually (all empires inevitably fall), but not anytime soon. They don't play that race-to-the-bottom game that almost every PC manufacturer needs to gamble on to compete/survive. They don't have to. They build well designed, high quality products that rate stupendously high on consumer satisfaction surveys (hard to imagine another company today that can command so much loyalty from their user base). Then there's the developer community (the best compensated in the business), and an ecosystem that has no equal. The restraint they have when it comes to developing their product lines allows them to fine-tune/standardize their manufacturing process with each iteration and take advantage of lower costs on bulk component orders. They write the book when it comes to managing a supply chain. This is how they were able to sell a MacBook Air for under 1k and throw the entire industry into a panic (enough for intel to offer a reward to the first manufacturer to match the Air on price/spec). Vizio is now just another company attempting to do what no other PC maker has been able to do in almost 4 years (the Air was introduced in 2008 believe it or not). How it performs or sells remains TBD, but it's safe to say they are still playing catchup like the rest of the industry. Apple's Retina display will probably find its way into the Air/iMac next year and will likely see the nice price drop once they standardize the process (this MacBook Pro version out now is, in essence, just a preparation exercise for what's coming down the pike). Do you see Vizio's offering even coming close to the demand a Retina display MacBook air would command? Especially if they cut the price down to 1k-1.5k? I don't. Btw, restraint is their biggest strength. For that reason alone, Apple will never release an "iPad Mini". If people want a 7 inch tablet they can go out and buy a Kindle Fire, regret their decision a day later, and then pick up an iPad like they intended. I'm not even being a wise-ass about that, I've seen it happen twice already (actually, it was a Nook Color in that other case...same thing really haha).

Totally agree with your assessment. If Vizio wanted to make their own OS for personal computers, not only would it take years of development but it would be a horrible move strategically, as that market is clearly in decline. Not to mention the fact that OS development is a dramatic deviation from Vizio's core business. It would be like Ford getting into the oil business.

Their products are related yes, but it doesn't mean the company will be any good at the related business. (Some people might point out that when Apple announced the iPhone, it was ridiculous to think that a computer and MP3 player company was getting involved in the phones market. While it is true that Apple was successful in an area outside it's core business at the time, that was more of the exception to the rule. MOST companies that get involved in businesses outside of their core business end up failing in their new venture).

As for Apple not playing the "race to the bottom" game, you hit that nail right on the head. Apple is all about image, the brand name, and premium pricing. They aren't very concerned about the low-end markets, at least not those where margins are thin. (They did pursue low-price markets in certain cases such as iPods in the past, but even then they were getting about 50% margins on these low-price devices). Releasing an iPad mini would go against Apple's strategy of high quality and high margins. They would have to sacrifice one of those to release a $250 iPad. Just to get into a stagnant market.