[bombsean56]

i've been looking into buying a printer. i wounded down to choosing this one, but before i make any purchases i wanted to get some opinions on it.
its an HP Office jet. i hear good things about HP printers...


i had my dilemma with HP's and Canon's but i decided to go with HP printers.

any thoughts or opinions are welcomed!

This post has been edited by bcappel: 02 August 2012 - 09:11 AM

[LiveBrianD]

If you print a lot (particularly text), you might want to get a laser - they cost more upfront, but you pay FAR less per page for the toner. Additionally, toner doesn't dry out like ink (because it's dry to begin with), and you don't have nozzles that need to be cleaned, wasting ink.

Personally, I hate Canon printers because of their terrible driver support in my experience - I had a ImageClass D680 before, and you were fine as long as you had Windows 98-XP. Yep, no 64-bit drivers, no support for Macs or Linux, and it barely worked on Vista 32-bit (the utility had to be run in compatibility mode). HP seems good there, though you might also want to consider Brother or Samsung.

[coastie65]

LiveBrianD, on 03 July 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

If you print a lot (particularly text), you might want to get a laser - they cost more upfront, but you pay FAR less per page for the toner. Additionally, toner doesn't dry out like ink (because it's dry to begin with), and you don't have nozzles that need to be cleaned, wasting ink.

Personally, I hate Canon printers because of their terrible driver support in my experience - I had a ImageClass D680 before, and you were fine as long as you had Windows 98-XP. Yep, no 64-bit drivers, no support for Macs or Linux, and it barely worked on Vista 32-bit (the utility had to be run in compatibility mode). HP seems good there, though you might also want to consider Brother or Samsung.

Good point on the cost per page. This HP C5180 I have is eating me up in ink.

[LiveBrianD]

coastie65, on 23 July 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 03 July 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

If you print a lot (particularly text), you might want to get a laser - they cost more upfront, but you pay FAR less per page for the toner. Additionally, toner doesn't dry out like ink (because it's dry to begin with), and you don't have nozzles that need to be cleaned, wasting ink.

Personally, I hate Canon printers because of their terrible driver support in my experience - I had a ImageClass D680 before, and you were fine as long as you had Windows 98-XP. Yep, no 64-bit drivers, no support for Macs or Linux, and it barely worked on Vista 32-bit (the utility had to be run in compatibility mode). HP seems good there, though you might also want to consider Brother or Samsung.

Good point on the cost per page. This HP C5180 I have is eating me up in ink.

You're far from the only one to complain about the cost of HP ink!

[coastie65]

LiveBrianD, on 23 July 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

coastie65, on 23 July 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 03 July 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

If you print a lot (particularly text), you might want to get a laser - they cost more upfront, but you pay FAR less per page for the toner. Additionally, toner doesn't dry out like ink (because it's dry to begin with), and you don't have nozzles that need to be cleaned, wasting ink.

Personally, I hate Canon printers because of their terrible driver support in my experience - I had a ImageClass D680 before, and you were fine as long as you had Windows 98-XP. Yep, no 64-bit drivers, no support for Macs or Linux, and it barely worked on Vista 32-bit (the utility had to be run in compatibility mode). HP seems good there, though you might also want to consider Brother or Samsung.

Good point on the cost per page. This HP C5180 I have is eating me up in ink.

You're far from the only one to complain about the cost of HP ink!

Actually, Lexmark was worse and only had two cartridges.

[smax013]

coastie65, on 23 July 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

Good point on the cost per page. This HP C5180 I have is eating me up in ink.

In general, that is why inkjet printers tend to be cheap upfront...they get you on the cost of the ink cartridges.

This is exactly why I use a laser printer as my primary printer. A toner cartridge tends to last me at least a couple of years and do tend to print a decent amount of stuff.

Of course, a b&w laser printer won't be an option if you want to print color photos. But, for me, the vast majority of items that I print do not need to be in color. In fact, I rarely print in color.

[TonyO]

I too am thinking about replacing my printer. I have a new HP D7160 which works as it's designed to. I don't do very much printing and I have a problem with shelling out $70 to replace ink carts that have only printed out 4 or 7 pages.... but the ink has "EXPIRED" and I'm not allowed to print until I replace with new ink. It seems several printer companies have adopted the business practice of: You buy a printer you are a member of a club and we will charge you dues in exchange for ink. You must buy new ink weather you use it or not.
I say NO, with the price of a new printer that comes with ink so close to the price of the replacement ink, I think I would rather just buy a new printer once or twice a year rather than pay more for replacing ink every 2 months because someone thinks the INK will grow MOLD and is no longer safe to EAT. I want out of the INK trap. If that means I copy to CD or flash drive and then go to speedy printing, with the current cost of ink I can afford to take a cab and still save money.
So what's the solution? I would like to see a listing of printers compiled, one that shows the cost of the printer, the cost of the ink, and are refill kits available for the ink? Is the ink set to expire, or is the ink cart engineered to make the ink evaporate, or some other designed-in flaw that prevents the end user from being able to use what they have paid for. It's time for big business to stop exploiting the customer as a cash cow. If they can't keep in business by selling the printer then the cost of ink isn't the solution. I'll go to another business that will charge a reasonable 10 cents per page and not the $10 DOLLARS I'm currently paying per page so I can claim to be a member of the HP club.
What other printers are available that will get me out of the trap of being over charged for replacement carts, weather toner or ink? If it's reasonably priced carts that suits me fine, if I can get refills rather than replacements then so much the better. If there are other options that I haven't considered then I would like to hear about them.

I wouldn't object to going back to the good old days of dot matrix printing with a ribbon. Yeah color is nice once in a while, but I don't want my printer to shut down because I've run out of yellow.

Thanks

This post has been edited by TonyO: 03 August 2012 - 11:28 AM

[LiveBrianD]

If you only print text, get a laser - inkjets have worse print quality they're slower, and cost more per page.

For your usage, you'd probably spend $50-100 for the printer, maybe $50 for toner, and be set with that for a LONG time.

[TonyO]

LiveBrianD, on 03 August 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

If you only print text, get a laser - inkjets have worse print quality they're slower, and cost more per page.

For your usage, you'd probably spend $50-100 for the printer, maybe $50 for toner, and be set with that for a LONG time.

I would still like to see a chart someplace that lists the various printers with a average/suggested retail price for ink, the shelf life of that ink, and weather that shelf life is enforced by the printer (expired) or if the shelf life is actual (evaporated). The option of refill kits for the ink would be a nice bonus to that listing. I think that would help a lot of people to make an intelligent buying decision. That would go a long ways towards letting people know what the total cost of ownership would be. Looking at the sheets that can be printed per cartridge and calculating a cost per sheet is meaningless if you don't print all those sheets before the deadline.

[LiveBrianD]

Again, the lack of an expiration date for toner is why I was suggesting a laser - you don't have to deal with that.

[evti]

I have an HP LaserJet 1320, and I have had it for almost 7 years now. I use it very lightly, but the toner is still going strong. It does the job quite well, and I paid about $250 for it at the beginning. So, if you're using it for black and white, definitely go with a laser printer. It will be much more cost effective, and prints better quality.

[Justin123]

HP Printers are good to buy. You can buy HP Deskjet 1000 - J110a printer that is best for home or small office printing needs. With color printing this HP Printer can help you complete your colourful projects on time.

[SnyperTodd]

I wouldn't rule out a Canon printer based on Brian's experience. The fact that he couldn't find a new 64-bit driver for and absolutely archaic printer shouldn't factor into anyone's purchasing decision. I, personally, have had great luck with Canon printers and they are my first recommendation for inkjet printers. I favor the higher-end of the MG and MX lines for most home users, but that depends largely on your budget and projected print volume. Among their features is the ability to use aftermarket ink cartridges costing about a dollar per cartridge with no adverse effects. They also have a removable print head that can be cleaned with an ammonia/water bath by the end user with excellent results. Many printers don't have removable print heads, and if the printer's own wasteful cleaning routine doesn't unclog the jets, the printer is junk.

For laser printers, I've personally had great luck with a number of inexpensive Brother printers, and HP's Laserjet line has been good to me as well. Again, I use aftermarket toner which costs much less than the same part from the manufacturer.

[LiveBrianD]

Thing is, I've seen equally as old, if not older (HP LaserJet 1100 with no USB port anyone?) printers that work just fine with newer OSes - HP, Brother, Epson, Samsung.... That printer never supported OS X either, as I recall.

[smax013]

LiveBrianD, on 03 April 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

Thing is, I've seen equally as old, if not older (HP LaserJet 1100 with no USB port anyone?) printers that work just fine with newer OSes - HP, Brother, Epson, Samsung.... That printer never supported OS X either, as I recall.

And I will bet that most of those older printers are laser printers that you refer to use some form of HP's PCL language that is generally able to work with more generic printer drivers. This is typically true of non-HP laser printers.

Some inkjets, OTOH, have been know (in my recollection) to use "proprietary" language that requires "non-standard" drivers.

And I will note that based upon your comments in your thread, you have dealt with exactly ONE Canon printer and lack of drivers. That does not mean that all older Canon printers lack drivers for Windows 7 or other new OSs. I know that I can find HP printers that lack drivers for current OSs.

Frankly, I have found that the cheaper the printer upfront, the greater the chance the printer manufacturer will hang you out to dry with drivers in the future as there is kind of an incentive for them to "compel" you to get a new printer every once and a while.

[LiveBrianD]

All of those except the Epson are lasers. I know some of them (HP and Samsung for sure anyway) use generic drivers - and I don't see why Canon can't as well. (the last I checked, HP added drivers for Windows 8 for the 1100)

What I really need is a way to run an XP driver under some sort of emulation so that I can print to a generic, virtual driver, and then have that pass the document off to the old, real driver that's running in the compatibility sandbox...

[waldojim]

TonyO, on 03 August 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

I too am thinking about replacing my printer. I have a new HP D7160 which works as it's designed to. I don't do very much printing and I have a problem with shelling out $70 to replace ink carts that have only printed out 4 or 7 pages.... but the ink has "EXPIRED" and I'm not allowed to print until I replace with new ink. It seems several printer companies have adopted the business practice of: You buy a printer you are a member of a club and we will charge you dues in exchange for ink. You must buy new ink weather you use it or not.
I say NO, with the price of a new printer that comes with ink so close to the price of the replacement ink, I think I would rather just buy a new printer once or twice a year rather than pay more for replacing ink every 2 months because someone thinks the INK will grow MOLD and is no longer safe to EAT. I want out of the INK trap. If that means I copy to CD or flash drive and then go to speedy printing, with the current cost of ink I can afford to take a cab and still save money.
So what's the solution? I would like to see a listing of printers compiled, one that shows the cost of the printer, the cost of the ink, and are refill kits available for the ink? Is the ink set to expire, or is the ink cart engineered to make the ink evaporate, or some other designed-in flaw that prevents the end user from being able to use what they have paid for. It's time for big business to stop exploiting the customer as a cash cow. If they can't keep in business by selling the printer then the cost of ink isn't the solution. I'll go to another business that will charge a reasonable 10 cents per page and not the $10 DOLLARS I'm currently paying per page so I can claim to be a member of the HP club.
What other printers are available that will get me out of the trap of being over charged for replacement carts, weather toner or ink? If it's reasonably priced carts that suits me fine, if I can get refills rather than replacements then so much the better. If there are other options that I haven't considered then I would like to hear about them.

I wouldn't object to going back to the good old days of dot matrix printing with a ribbon. Yeah color is nice once in a while, but I don't want my printer to shut down because I've run out of yellow.

Thanks

I have a Canon MP620B. It is now nearing 4 years old. In that 4 years, I replace my ink tanks once a year after printing out all of my Christmas cards. During the rest of the year, it sees maybe 3 pages printed per month typically. I do occasionally print off photos, but that is a rare occurrence. In this time, I have never had one "replace ink because it is old" message, nor a clogged head. ALL of my tanks are transparent. When the printer states it is empty, I keep printing until it is TRULY empty (sometimes as many as 10 photo's!). At which point I pull out my cartridge and see that it is OBVIOUSLY empty. On top of all this, these are very large cartilages with about 9ml of ink for each color. As a comparison point, the last HP I looked at had 4.5ml TOTAL ink for three colors.

I highly recommend Canon. This is my whopping second printer, the first one lasted 7 years, and made it across three moves and two countries. The last one saw monthly usage in the 40-50 pictures per month range though, and I ended up with the tiny output rollers getting worn out...

Brian gets upset easily, disregard him. Canon has had top-notch support for their products as long as they are reasonably recent. I sure don't see Panasonic supporting any of their 20+ year old dot-matrix printers in Windows 8. Nor would I ask them to do so. Top it off, my now ancient Canon s750 (which is roughly 11 years old) still has working Windows 7 X64 drivers... Obviously I don't use that sucker any more, as it is the one I wore out. Though I easily could continue to use it should I desire...

[waldojim]

smax013, on 03 April 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

And I will bet that most of those older printers are laser printers that you refer to use some form of HP's PCL language that is generally able to work with more generic printer drivers. This is typically true of non-HP laser printers.

Some inkjets, OTOH, have been know (in my recollection) to use "proprietary" language that requires "non-standard" drivers.

And I will note that based upon your comments in your thread, you have dealt with exactly ONE Canon printer and lack of drivers. That does not mean that all older Canon printers lack drivers for Windows 7 or other new OSs. I know that I can find HP printers that lack drivers for current OSs.

Frankly, I have found that the cheaper the printer upfront, the greater the chance the printer manufacturer will hang you out to dry with drivers in the future as there is kind of an incentive for them to "compel" you to get a new printer every once and a while.

Yes, HP, Canon, Lexmark, et al. are all known for this. Even on "higher end" inkjet printers (including networked flavors). I have even seen this in the cheaper laser printers (Samsung, I am looking at you!)

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 03 April 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

All of those except the Epson are lasers. I know some of them (HP and Samsung for sure anyway) use generic drivers - and I don't see why Canon can't as well. (the last I checked, HP added drivers for Windows 8 for the 1100)

What I really need is a way to run an XP driver under some sort of emulation so that I can print to a generic, virtual driver, and then have that pass the document off to the old, real driver that's running in the compatibility sandbox...

HP does not use a generic driver for their inkjet Printers. Otherwise, the InkJet Printer scandal when VISTA launched would not have happened. People with BRAND NEW PRINTERS could not use them because HP didn't want to release drivers.

[LiveBrianD]

I should've been more specific - I meant the lasers. And how is it unacceptable to expect decent driver support for an older, not cheap laser printer when competitors' printers that are just as old, if not older, are supported just fine? Needless to say, Canon obviously doesn't want more business, and it shows. Note that the D680 didn't support OS X 10.4 or 10.5 either, as I recall, and it wasn't even that old at the time. The equally old Epson, on the other hand, worked without me having to manually load a driver on Windows 2000 through 7 64-bit, and multiple versions of OS X.