[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Windows Phone 7.8: Leaked Document Details Missing Features here

[Anthonye3gz]

"Windows Phone 7 has been around for roughly a year."

"Roughly" two years.

[ivorycruncher]

No backwards compatibility for apps. Genius, Microsoft, pure genius. Apple got this right with iOS, Google got this right with Android, and you yourselves have gotten this right for decades with Windows. How can you now make such a bad decision as to pull the plug on backwards compatibility for Windows 7 phones? You've now created two distinct Windows Phone platforms, forcing developers to either write apps for both, or drop WP7 altogether. Most will choose the latter option, thus alienating the bulk of your current Windows Phone user base locked into carrier contracts with devices that are now being forced into artificial obsolescence.

Microsoft, how many more bad moves are you going to make before you wake up to the reality that your company is no longer the IT superpower it used to be, and starts actually listening to your customers again?

[MrHistamine]

ivorycruncher, on 15 August 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

No backwards compatibility for apps. Genius, Microsoft, pure genius. Apple got this right with iOS, Google got this right with Android, and you yourselves have gotten this right for decades with Windows. How can you now make such a bad decision as to pull the plug on backwards compatibility for Windows 7 phones? You've now created two distinct Windows Phone platforms, forcing developers to either write apps for both, or drop WP7 altogether. Most will choose the latter option, thus alienating the bulk of your current Windows Phone user base locked into carrier contracts with devices that are now being forced into artificial obsolescence.

Microsoft, how many more bad moves are you going to make before you wake up to the reality that your company is no longer the IT superpower it used to be, and starts actually listening to your customers again?

Where did you get "no backwards compatibility for apps"? WP8 itself won't be backwards compatible with older hardware...just like prior Android phones aren't compatible with the current Android OS...and just like prior iPhones, aren't compatible with the most recent iOS. Case-in-point: when I first purchased my Continuum, they claimed it'd be compatible with 2.3. Three months later, I was told that it wouldn't be compatible with 2.3...even though the phone was released in the same year 2.3 was released. I honestly wasn't surprised (and frankly, didn't care - as long as it functioned as a phone).

Let's not stretch the truth - they're all fragmented (some less than others); that's just the nature of the business.

[Genghis7777]

I suspect MS always knew that WP7 was an interim step. I also suspect that Nokia knew too. But Windows Mobile was looking long in the tooth and attracting increasingly vitriolic criticism. These pressures forced them to do something a year or two before they would really like to. Pulling it altogether into one Ecosystem is the right direction but there is just so much inertia to overcome. Amazing how many Luddites there are in the world. Big change is stressful but being seen as antiquated is equally repugnant. I think the former is a better choice.

[Rexdff0]

Most of these are expected and really dont matter. Since Current phones come will single core processors, why should 7.8 support more? Same with the screen and microSD cards. I am going to wait for Windows 8 PHone, but if I had a Windows 7 phone, I dont think I would be too upset. I would use it till the contract expired and then upgrade.

[DarrenPolicella]

3 of these items are 100% irrelevant. Screen resolutions, multi-processor support, and NFC are hardware related items. If you own a phone without these items, no SW upgrade will fix that. Why even mention them? If you want those, you buy a phone that has them and oh by the way, you get WP8.

[AnnePeltier]

We currently have a Samsung Focus S and a Nokia 900. I like the size of the Samsung better and the quality of the nokia better. Both are so much better than the iphones we had with all the apps we need. Better phones are obviously coming and when they do, we'll probably upgrade. In the mean time, we have the best there is for what we want to do.

[EricSnyder]

The article is a ridiculous attempt to gain hits ... unfortunately it worked on me . "Missing" is the wrong term. The features are not being added because with them, the WP7 system would have to be called Windows Phone 8. Of course there is no NFC, there is no NFC hardware or drivers. Of course there is no dual core .. there is no dual core hardware, and CE, on which Windows Phone 7.5 is built only supports a single core.

It took a GIANT step to get to Windows Phone 8 in merging with the Windows core, and therefore it is not worth it to put the features in CE.

Windows Phone 7 apps will work in Windows Phone 8 .. in fact, developers don't have to do anything to get them running, they will be compiled in the cloud. Apps in Windows Phone 8 can be dual targeted back to the WP7 with some easy steps, so features not requiring WP8 can be included.

On top of that Nokia is introducing new features on WP7 because it knows how to keepminnovating on the platform -- current Nokia users will not be left behind for at least 18 months, and by that time, their contracts will have expired and they can transition to a shiny new device.

Basically, the article is crap.

[SemperFidelis]

MrHistamine, on 15 August 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

ivorycruncher, on 15 August 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

No backwards compatibility for apps. Genius, Microsoft, pure genius. Apple got this right with iOS, Google got this right with Android, and you yourselves have gotten this right for decades with Windows. How can you now make such a bad decision as to pull the plug on backwards compatibility for Windows 7 phones? You've now created two distinct Windows Phone platforms, forcing developers to either write apps for both, or drop WP7 altogether. Most will choose the latter option, thus alienating the bulk of your current Windows Phone user base locked into carrier contracts with devices that are now being forced into artificial obsolescence.

Microsoft, how many more bad moves are you going to make before you wake up to the reality that your company is no longer the IT superpower it used to be, and starts actually listening to your customers again?

Where did you get "no backwards compatibility for apps"? WP8 itself won't be backwards compatible with older hardware...just like prior Android phones aren't compatible with the current Android OS...and just like prior iPhones, aren't compatible with the most recent iOS. Case-in-point: when I first purchased my Continuum, they claimed it'd be compatible with 2.3. Three months later, I was told that it wouldn't be compatible with 2.3...even though the phone was released in the same year 2.3 was released. I honestly wasn't surprised (and frankly, didn't care - as long as it functioned as a phone).

Let's not stretch the truth - they're all fragmented (some less than others); that's just the nature of the business.

To some degree, I agree. But you're skewing things too. Take WinMo for example: they said WinPho7 was "a generational shift" (although I consider it a generational bullshit) back in 2010, so I couldn't upgrade my HTC Touch HD from WinMo 6.5 (WinPho7 eventually got ported onto an HTC HD2, proving my point). Now, just 2 years later, another (bull)shift looming... Fine, I went to Android and never looked back. My Galaxy S2 came with Froyo, I upgraded it to Gingerbread 2.3.4, then to ICS and now I'm waiting for JellyBean. What I'm getting at is that both iOS and Android don't just lock you up, they at least offer you the chance of upgrading even if it's through unofficial channels (Cyanogen, etc.). Microsoft does exactly the opposite, turning early adopters of their mobile platform into Guinea pigs and shafting them out of any improvement.

When Apple dramatically dropped the price of the iPhone in September of 2007 (after just about 3 months on the market) it offered its early buyers a $100 coupon and free iTunes songs. MS offers Lumia owners a homescreen that mimics WinPho 8... I'm no Apple fan, I think they're just a bunch of patent trolls, but their care for consumers is really outstanding. With the initial NoDo upgrade, MS bricked (according to their own estimates) about 15% of the phones that got it, and all they did was to ping-pong consumers back and forth with Samsung (most of the NoDo brickery included Sammy's handsets), saying it's not their fault that Omnias had custom FW installed... So no, it's not the "nature of business", but the way MS does business. Unfortunately for them, consumers have more than 1 choice now, and the fact that Ballmer's bonus got severed last year for failing to make WP7 even slightly relevant speaks volumes. I'm not buying into their "shifts" any longer, it's insulting.

[SemperFidelis]

Genghis7777, on 15 August 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

I suspect MS always knew that WP7 was an interim step. I also suspect that Nokia knew too. But Windows Mobile was looking long in the tooth and attracting increasingly vitriolic criticism. These pressures forced them to do something a year or two before they would really like to. Pulling it altogether into one Ecosystem is the right direction but there is just so much inertia to overcome. Amazing how many Luddites there are in the world. Big change is stressful but being seen as antiquated is equally repugnant. I think the former is a better choice.

Your suspicion is correct. MS admitted work for WinPho8 started in parallel with WP7 (which explains the stumbles, the small dev team, the oft-promised but never delivered $400 million advertisement campaign for the latter), but they just had to rush WP7 onto the market so that they don't start from scratch with WP8 (they needed apps, a support model, carrier/OEM commitments, etc.). It's funny that WP8 is overseen by the same bald guy who said the iPhone has no chance... I do agree that MS needed a change, but the way they did it (first shafting the WinMo install base and now the WP7 one out of upgrades) is definitely alienating for both partners and consumers. If the WinPho experience had been that great, I'd still be willing to give them a chance, but even after almost 2 years the platform doesn't have a native YouTube application (the one in Marketplace is just a link to YT's mobile site), and most apps are only available in the US (worldwide availability, despite their PR stunts, is still in the tatters, I've tested some on my friends' Lumia 800 here in Europe). Not to mention that the HW was OK for 2010, but today it's obsolete and unattractive. No wonder LG pretty much canned its WinPho efforts ("global WP7 sales are not a meaningful figure"), along with Fujitsu and Toshiba. I have little confidence that newcomers like ZTE or Huawei can come up with decent handsets, and that leaves Nokia, HTC and Samsung in the spotlight. For the sake of competition I wish them well, but I'm not going to revert back from Android.

[MrHistamine]

SemperFidelis, on 23 August 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

MrHistamine, on 15 August 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

ivorycruncher, on 15 August 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

No backwards compatibility for apps. Genius, Microsoft, pure genius. Apple got this right with iOS, Google got this right with Android, and you yourselves have gotten this right for decades with Windows. How can you now make such a bad decision as to pull the plug on backwards compatibility for Windows 7 phones? You've now created two distinct Windows Phone platforms, forcing developers to either write apps for both, or drop WP7 altogether. Most will choose the latter option, thus alienating the bulk of your current Windows Phone user base locked into carrier contracts with devices that are now being forced into artificial obsolescence.

Microsoft, how many more bad moves are you going to make before you wake up to the reality that your company is no longer the IT superpower it used to be, and starts actually listening to your customers again?

Where did you get "no backwards compatibility for apps"? WP8 itself won't be backwards compatible with older hardware...just like prior Android phones aren't compatible with the current Android OS...and just like prior iPhones, aren't compatible with the most recent iOS. Case-in-point: when I first purchased my Continuum, they claimed it'd be compatible with 2.3. Three months later, I was told that it wouldn't be compatible with 2.3...even though the phone was released in the same year 2.3 was released. I honestly wasn't surprised (and frankly, didn't care - as long as it functioned as a phone).

Let's not stretch the truth - they're all fragmented (some less than others); that's just the nature of the business.

To some degree, I agree. But you're skewing things too. Take WinMo for example: they said WinPho7 was "a generational shift" (although I consider it a generational bullshit) back in 2010, so I couldn't upgrade my HTC Touch HD from WinMo 6.5 (WinPho7 eventually got ported onto an HTC HD2, proving my point). Now, just 2 years later, another (bull)shift looming... Fine, I went to Android and never looked back. My Galaxy S2 came with Froyo, I upgraded it to Gingerbread 2.3.4, then to ICS and now I'm waiting for JellyBean. What I'm getting at is that both iOS and Android don't just lock you up, they at least offer you the chance of upgrading even if it's through unofficial channels (Cyanogen, etc.). Microsoft does exactly the opposite, turning early adopters of their mobile platform into Guinea pigs and shafting them out of any improvement.

When Apple dramatically dropped the price of the iPhone in September of 2007 (after just about 3 months on the market) it offered its early buyers a $100 coupon and free iTunes songs. MS offers Lumia owners a homescreen that mimics WinPho 8... I'm no Apple fan, I think they're just a bunch of patent trolls, but their care for consumers is really outstanding. With the initial NoDo upgrade, MS bricked (according to their own estimates) about 15% of the phones that got it, and all they did was to ping-pong consumers back and forth with Samsung (most of the NoDo brickery included Sammy's handsets), saying it's not their fault that Omnias had custom FW installed... So no, it's not the "nature of business", but the way MS does business. Unfortunately for them, consumers have more than 1 choice now, and the fact that Ballmer's bonus got severed last year for failing to make WP7 even slightly relevant speaks volumes. I'm not buying into their "shifts" any longer, it's insulting.

You don't indicate how I'm "skewing things too". I simply stated that all mobile OSs "lock out" older hardware for various reasons (whether you believe them to be BS or not); you just reiterated my point by providing another example. I'm also stating, that this is not a new concept (PCs are guilty too), it just happens to occur more often on the mobile platforms. To the last point - in your first paragraph; a large majority of consumers don't care, nor do they want to spend any amount of time upgrading the OS on their phone. This is because: [A] they'll be getting a new one in two years, so why bother; [B] what they have is perfect, they won't change until the phone disintegrates; and [C] the popularity of a specific phone at the time they make their purchase (the original Moto Razr was not running one of these newfangled OSs, yet it sold very well).

So...we're going to just gloss over the much publicized mis-handling of their antenna issue...and Nokia's handling of the Lumia snafu earlier this year...or Android's battery drainage issues on various handsets...? I suppose. To a more balanced point; no mobile device company is perfect - Apple, while flawed, happens to be the standard for implementing various mobile technologies (no matter who developed them first). You also need to provide a legitimate source to support your claim that "15% of the phones" that got the NoDo update were bricked.

To go back to my original point; these "shifts" are the fundamental nature of the cell phone business; without these "annoying shifts", we'd still be using phones with monochrome LCD screens, and multi-tap texting. I'm not sure if you recognize, but the "shift" you bought into, was Android's; you should be proud of investing in technology that fundamentally shifts the mobile landscape (no matter whose OS it's running).

[rwoodward]

Saying that Windows Phone 7 is "being sent to the dustbin of obsolescence" is as nonsensical as saying Windows Vista made Windows XP obsolete.

[SteveM61]

I see nothing strange about this....I have an iPhone 4 and realize I can't get Siri on it or 4G LTE. Windows is moving towards a business model that is more than just a software version...it's the complete package of software with minimum required hardware to accomodate it. Want a phone with Windows 8 features you have to buy one.