[brainout]

Hi, it's now about 5am Monday morning, and since late Friday I've been trying to port all my XP settings to my new XP computer. Not fun. I'm still not done.

At this point, after FIVE HOURS arguing with MS Word, which won't allow my Office 2002 on this machine because it's DIFFERENT (never mind, I have my receipt, original holographic discs because I bought Word 2002 FULL AND NEW in shrinkwrap!) -- I instead installed my old (and better) Office 2000, and spent 10 minutes grousing over a nuked frozen chicken leg. Then tried to find how I could port my email, but OH! Outlook Express won't allow the email to be on a pen drive! DANG! But no worry, I have three Seagate wheel drives at 6GB each which ARE recognized, and they perfectly hold my email. Whew. So that becomes my 'store folder' so I have ONE email location no matter where on the computer.

So okay, now it's time to load up my other goodies, like.. Pixelan (<== that's the link). After all, that's why I got this quad-core XP Pro new machine (well, old casing). I make a lot of HD videos and am tired of the Windows Movie Maker crashes on my old machine. But READ THAT LINK -- Win7's touted 'new' version of Movie Maker, is WORSE than the old Movie Maker. So of course, Pixelan can't work with it.. yet. But you can use it with what? VISTA. And of course, XP. I've been using Pixelan for years. Finally got the pro paid version, in June or July. Very happy camper.

BTW: Pixelan's full complement of effects doesn't run on XP Home. And when I had to uninstall because it didn't fully work -- notice from that link above -- I could download what I bought AGAIN, no hassle. MS' paranoid management can take some lessons from these people. Guess who I'll want to keep doing business with? And guess, who NOT?

MESSAGE TO MICROSOFT: your paranoia prevents people upgrading their machines, so prevents them from wanting your 'new and allegedly improved' software. Because, they can't port over to their new machines they have to buy to RUN your new and NOT improved software. So they can't port over what they ALREADY BOUGHT from you. So you DISSUADE them from buying more from you, capisce?

MS is destroying the new-PC market almost singlehandedly. Guaranteed, the next new mission-critical PC I buy, won't be on MS or Apple. I must go to Linux, in order to have a stable PC, in the future. I like but not love Linux. It's annoying. But at least I can be sure of running my past and future stuff, ON it. Hint Hint.

Imagine you bought a popular car. You keep it in real good shape. A few years later, the manufacturer tells you about this spiffy new air conditioning system. You live in Texas, so that sounds good. But when you go to ask about it, you find out you have to buy a whole new car, to get it. And you can't bring in your expensive stereo system you had installed, nor your car alarm which cost you $2,000 (and always goes off in the rain), nor those leather seats you'd added to your current car -- assured it would last you for years and could be upgraded.

So you go without the so-called new air conditioning. Two years after you'd said no, you find all kinds of people complaining that the NEW SYSTEM's air, doesn't cool until an hour later. Versus what you have, which takes about 15 minutes to cool you. Aha.

Yeah. One more added reason to stick to the old stuff. MS 'upgrades' become more and more tyrannical and backward, from 2002 forward.

This post has been edited by brainout: 27 August 2012 - 03:21 AM

[smax013]

brainout, on 27 August 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

At this point, after FIVE HOURS arguing with MS Word, which won't allow my Office 2002 on this machine because it's DIFFERENT (never mind, I have my receipt, original holographic discs because I bought Word 2002 FULL AND NEW in shrinkwrap!)

Is it an OEM license of Office XP/2002? If it is a retail license, then you should have no problem "moving" it to another machine. If it is an OEM license, then you might have problems as an OEM licenses are licensed to ONE machine and only that machine...forever. Of course, I don't know if Microsoft's activation "funness" was fully implemented on Office XP.

Quote

MS is destroying the new-PC market almost singlehandedly. Guaranteed, the next new mission-critical PC I buy, won't be on MS or Apple. I must go to Linux, in order to have a stable PC, in the future. I like but not love Linux. It's annoying. But at least I can be sure of running my past and future stuff, ON it. Hint Hint.

Maybe. maybe not. Generally speaking, ALL "upgrades" tend to break stuff and newer OSs tend to not support older software at some point. It is the nature of progress.

[brainout]

smax013, on 27 August 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

brainout, on 27 August 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

At this point, after FIVE HOURS arguing with MS Word, which won't allow my Office 2002 on this machine because it's DIFFERENT (never mind, I have my receipt, original holographic discs because I bought Word 2002 FULL AND NEW in shrinkwrap!)

Is it an OEM license of Office XP/2002? If it is a retail license, then you should have no problem "moving" it to another machine. If it is an OEM license, then you might have problems as an OEM licenses are licensed to ONE machine and only that machine...forever. Of course, I don't know if Microsoft's activation "funness" was fully implemented on Office XP.

Quote

MS is destroying the new-PC market almost singlehandedly. Guaranteed, the next new mission-critical PC I buy, won't be on MS or Apple. I must go to Linux, in order to have a stable PC, in the future. I like but not love Linux. It's annoying. But at least I can be sure of running my past and future stuff, ON it. Hint Hint.

Maybe. maybe not. Generally speaking, ALL "upgrades" tend to break stuff and newer OSs tend to not support older software at some point. It is the nature of progress.

Not OEM, a retail license. Brand-new in shrink wrap, bought off the shelf, JUST the software. And it is a problem. They refused to reactivate, because I'm deploying it on a different machine. So, I refuse to upgrade. Simple. Possession is 9/10ths of the law, and the retail sales receipt is the other 10%. I don't break copyright laws, I believe in them. So they shouldn't break faith with the customer.

As for 'progress', it's not progress if the new stuff functions worse than the old, and you have to keep records that are still ON the old. Every business in America has a history, and its history has to be preserved. If you get into a tax audit, and your computer records from 10 years ago can't be read, then you can't print them either, and IRS will presume you are guilty. That's an expensive example, but it happens often. And that's but one of thousands of examples of needs to keep old records (proof of property ownership and history of expenses is needed to sell a house; proof of ownership of a thing you have only computer proof of, another common example).

People are going paperless. The movement started about 15 years ago, and now the software they used to create those computer records (unless they did it with pdf), won't run on the latest version of the same thing? Adobe Acrobat 10 is reducing backwards-compatibility, as is MS, and many other software houses. It's dangerous. So keep your old software used to create your old records, lest you not be able to retrieve and read them, anymore.

Computer records are often superior as proof, because of the information in the document. You can tell when it was really created, when edited, etc. If you still have the original documents on the original computer, that's total proof, because the document wasn't copied or moved. I keep all my old machines for that reason. In my business, big penalties apply if I can't prove how something happened 20 years ago. And I'm just one of many.

IBM isn't stupid. It still supports DOS. The IBM rep told me last week that she couldn't guarantee my old DOS wk1's would work on IBM software (IBM bought the rights to Lotus stuff) -- if I migrated to Win7. So I won't.

This post has been edited by brainout: 27 August 2012 - 10:19 AM

[brainout]

UPDATE ON PIXELAN

Just got an email back from Pixelan at 10:11AM Central Time. I had sent them this topic. Here's what the rep said (pasted from the email):

"Also, Windows 7 users don't need to switch back to Vista to get a Movie Maker timeline and use our Movie Maker plug-ins. They just need to install a Vista version of Movie Maker (MM 2.6 or 6.0) into Windows 7 (runs great in Windows 7), which is a very easy five-minute process that our website guides users through at (click here)" The guy gave the actual link, but the forum truncates it, so I embedded into '(click here)'.

brainout, on 27 August 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

Hi, it's now about 5am Monday morning, and since late Friday I've been trying to port all my XP settings to my new XP computer. Not fun. I'm still not done.

At this point, after FIVE HOURS arguing with MS Word, which won't allow my Office 2002 on this machine because it's DIFFERENT (never mind, I have my receipt, original holographic discs because I bought Word 2002 FULL AND NEW in shrinkwrap!) -- I instead installed my old (and better) Office 2000, and spent 10 minutes grousing over a nuked frozen chicken leg. Then tried to find how I could port my email, but OH! Outlook Express won't allow the email to be on a pen drive! DANG! But no worry, I have three Seagate wheel drives at 6GB each which ARE recognized, and they perfectly hold my email. Whew. So that becomes my 'store folder' so I have ONE email location no matter where on the computer.

So okay, now it's time to load up my other goodies, like.. Pixelan (<== that's the link). After all, that's why I got this quad-core XP Pro new machine (well, old casing). I make a lot of HD videos and am tired of the Windows Movie Maker crashes on my old machine. But READ THAT LINK -- Win7's touted 'new' version of Movie Maker, is WORSE than the old Movie Maker. So of course, Pixelan can't work with it.. yet. But you can use it with what? VISTA. And of course, XP. I've been using Pixelan for years. Finally got the pro paid version, in June or July. Very happy camper.

BTW: Pixelan's full complement of effects doesn't run on XP Home. And when I had to uninstall because it didn't fully work -- notice from that link above -- I could download what I bought AGAIN, no hassle. MS' paranoid management can take some lessons from these people. Guess who I'll want to keep doing business with? And guess, who NOT?

MESSAGE TO MICROSOFT: your paranoia prevents people upgrading their machines, so prevents them from wanting your 'new and allegedly improved' software. Because, they can't port over to their new machines they have to buy to RUN your new and NOT improved software. So they can't port over what they ALREADY BOUGHT from you. So you DISSUADE them from buying more from you, capisce?

MS is destroying the new-PC market almost singlehandedly. Guaranteed, the next new mission-critical PC I buy, won't be on MS or Apple. I must go to Linux, in order to have a stable PC, in the future. I like but not love Linux. It's annoying. But at least I can be sure of running my past and future stuff, ON it. Hint Hint.

Imagine you bought a popular car. You keep it in real good shape. A few years later, the manufacturer tells you about this spiffy new air conditioning system. You live in Texas, so that sounds good. But when you go to ask about it, you find out you have to buy a whole new car, to get it. And you can't bring in your expensive stereo system you had installed, nor your car alarm which cost you $2,000 (and always goes off in the rain), nor those leather seats you'd added to your current car -- assured it would last you for years and could be upgraded.

So you go without the so-called new air conditioning. Two years after you'd said no, you find all kinds of people complaining that the NEW SYSTEM's air, doesn't cool until an hour later. Versus what you have, which takes about 15 minutes to cool you. Aha.

Yeah. One more added reason to stick to the old stuff. MS 'upgrades' become more and more tyrannical and backward, from 2002 forward.

[smax013]

brainout, on 27 August 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

Not OEM, a retail license. Brand-new in shrink wrap, bought off the shelf, JUST the software. And it is a problem. They refused to reactivate, because I'm deploying it on a different machine. So, I refuse to upgrade. Simple. Possession is 9/10ths of the law, and the retail sales receipt is the other 10%. I don't break copyright laws, I believe in them. So they shouldn't break faith with the customer.

You can get OEM licenses of Windows and Office in "retail" locations. These generally are not in any shrink-wrapped box, so it does not sound like what you got.

There is also an "upgrade" license. This WILL have come in a shrink-wrapped box at typical retail stores. For an upgrade license, it must be installed on a computer with an older version of Office on it. So, if you are using that older copy of Office on another computer and then try to install Office XP on a different computer, then at a minimum you will be violating the license but the activation might be smart enough to catch this.

If it is an actual "retail" license, then you are legally allowed to MOVE it (i.e. deleted it from the old computer and install on the new computer) to a new computer. You should have a copy of the license agreement with it. And if they are giving you a hard time, then you might have to bug them about it.

Quote

As for 'progress', it's not progress if the new stuff functions worse than the old, and you have to keep records that are still ON the old. Every business in America has a history, and its history has to be preserved. If you get into a tax audit, and your computer records from 10 years ago can't be read, then you can't print them either, and IRS will presume you are guilty. That's an expensive example, but it happens often. And that's but one of thousands of examples of needs to keep old records (proof of property ownership and history of expenses is needed to sell a house; proof of ownership of a thing you have only computer proof of, another common example).

People are going paperless. The movement started about 15 years ago, and now the software they used to create those computer records (unless they did it with pdf), won't run on the latest version of the same thing? Adobe Acrobat 10 is reducing backwards-compatibility, as is MS, and many other software houses. It's dangerous. So keep your old software used to create your old records, lest you not be able to retrieve and read them, anymore.

Computer records are often superior as proof, because of the information in the document. You can tell when it was really created, when edited, etc. If you still have the original documents on the original computer, that's total proof, because the document wasn't copied or moved. I keep all my old machines for that reason. In my business, big penalties apply if I can't prove how something happened 20 years ago. And I'm just one of many.

IBM isn't stupid. It still supports DOS. The IBM rep told me last week that she couldn't guarantee my old DOS wk1's would work on IBM software (IBM bought the rights to Lotus stuff) -- if I migrated to Win7. So I won't.

Regardless of whether it is true progress or not, at some point old things break and you will be forced to use newer things. If you can keep an older computer running that will run an older OS using older programs, then great. But, any smart business will realize that may not alway be possible and be planning on moving forward so that they don't get caught painted into a corner with old obsolete files that they can no longer access when some old computer dies or some old program is no longer supported and can not be reinstalled on a "new" old computer. That is the price of doing business, especially if you want to go paperless (that is the downside of paperless...a big advantage of paper is that it really never goes obsolete...except for maybe deteriorating).

Does this suck. You betcha. But that is the nature of relying on others (i.e. software companies) for critical pieces of your business flow. At some point, they will make changes that you don't like and you will either have to "go with the flow" of the new stuff or stubbornly stick with the old stuff and deal with eventual dead ends. I am not saying it is good or that it even should be acceptable, but the reality is that we general don't have much choice.

Are there things that I don't like about new Microsoft or Apple or you name it programs and/or hardware? Heck ya.

I hate the Ribbon in Office 2007 and later. Fortunately, since I mainly use Macs these days, I still can use menus even though the current Mac version of using version of the Ribbon. OTOH, I do suspect that if I was force to use Office 2007 or 2010 on a regular basis, I would get used to it (I do have both on my Windows machine). But, it would definitely be a "productivity drag" while I got used to it.

I am not particular fond of the new Metro (or whatever they are going to call it now) UI on Windows 8. But, I have not really used it that much...and I suspect that I will get used to it. Fortunately, it does not look like Windows 7 is going anywhere anytime soon, especially since it seems like Enterprise is not that thrilled about Windows 8 at this time.

On the Mac side of things, I don't really like the "dumbing down" that Apple is doing with the Mac OS. So far, it is not too bad, but if one logically extends the path, then things look kind of bad. For example, the "sandboxing" requirement that Apple forces on all App Store apps is troubling. While it is good for security purposes, it creates some real problems for some programs and the function we have come to expect from them. Fortunately, this is not required for program bought elsewhere. But, who knows if Apple will extend the "sandboxing" requirements to all programs at some point. "Sandboxing" works great for an iPad like device...but I don't want my Mac to be an iPad.

[brainout]

smax013, on 27 August 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

If it is an actual "retail" license, then you are legally allowed to MOVE it (i.e. deleted it from the old computer and install on the new computer) to a new computer. You should have a copy of the license agreement with it. And if they are giving you a hard time, then you might have to bug them about it.
....

Regardless of whether it is true progress or not, at some point old things break and you will be forced to use newer things. If you can keep an older computer running that will run an older OS using older programs, then great. But, any smart business will realize that may not alway be possible and be planning on moving forward so that they don't get caught painted into a corner with old obsolete files that they can no longer access when some old computer dies or some old program is no longer supported and can not be reinstalled on a "new" old computer. That is the price of doing business, especially if you want to go paperless (that is the downside of paperless...a big advantage of paper is that it really never goes obsolete...except for maybe deteriorating).

Does this suck. You betcha. But that is the nature of relying on others (i.e. software companies) for critical pieces of your business flow. At some point, they will make changes that you don't like and you will either have to "go with the flow" of the new stuff or stubbornly stick with the old stuff and deal with eventual dead ends. I am not saying it is good or that it even should be acceptable, but the reality is that we general don't have much choice.

It was an actual 'retail' license. You buy it in a store. Retail Box, MS' own, whole bit. When I went on the internet to register as a result of MOVING it to the new machine, I was denied activation with no explanation. Didn't even go to a website, the dialogue box just said I'd installed it before, not on the machine I was on, so no go. It was 3 am and I was given an option to call for activation. Basta.

And that ties to your second point about being forced to use newer things and does that suck -- it sure does, and not because of merely newer. THERE IS NO REASON why old ASCII files of the past, with the extension prn cannot be read, except that they are differently defined now by later versions of Windblows. NO REASON why wk1 files cannot be read; they just stopped allowing it. Many things in older format could be still read by the actual machine, with the right software. But they won't READ that software, in later versions, so in effect and over time, the older stuff won't be read.

Computer files can last a whole lot longer than paper. The whole idea fueling the computer 'revolution' was a way to PRESERVE DATA (i.e., the digitization projects by Gutenberg and Google, archives.org and many libraries throughout the world). So it won't be preserved with this counterproductive attitude, which is wholly unnecessary. They are cutting the wrong corners.

Computers could be a lot simpler and more productive than they are now. But instead of actually improving the product, they went the defective car route of adding tail fins and all kinds of nonsense; and the core functions, are gradually reduced.

It really is easier to jot passwords down on paper, than to learn the software needed to store them. Easier and faster to dial phone numbers, than to store them in a cellphone which next year, won't be able to port your numbers over. All that analog stuff still could work, but we had to chuck it. Better sound, picture, and yeah heavier too.

Don't get me wrong. I'm rabid about automating. I automate everything I can, always on the lookout for a faster, better procedure, and I don't give a fig about appearance, politics, or anything else. WHAT IS THE BEST WAY -- that's all I care about. So I'm not at all against computers, nor against change. But it has to be the right kind of change. As it stands, the cure is far worse than the disease. Our phones don't work as well as they used to, TV quality is less, we're busier than ever so not saving time. Every index of what should constitute improvement is turning in the opposite direction. There was a sort of golden time between 1995-2002, when we saw big payoff in hardware and software, other technological innovations. Big productivity boost. But it's gone now.

What used to take me 10 minutes to do in DOS -- basic core stuff like writing letters, printing -- now takes much longer, because one glitch after the next occurs. All day today I got nothing done. First I lost dial tone, so for an hour with Comcast and of course they know nothing, modem is working so it must be the phones, but the phones work fine coming in. Then every time I touched the computer to go to a webpage, long delay no one knows why or how or what. Then works. No reason. Sound works, then suddenly doesn't. Video works, then suddenly doesn't. One USB cable works fine then when connected again just as securely.. doesn't. Have to guess at USB ports, guess at installations, guess guess guess.

THE NOT KNOWING. Disparate key sequences on different devices, running from one computer to the next to check on its status, finding out that oh Outlook Express will only accept a store folder if it's on an NTFS drive -- what? -- and on and on. I've not slept since .. Saturday? Friday? I don't remember.

It wasn't this convoluted 10 years ago. Stuff worked.

It's not SMART change. But I'll stop here, because I'm not arguing with you. I'm just incensed at what I suddenly realize to be a major core weakness threatening worldwide stability of longterm information.

This post has been edited by brainout: 27 August 2012 - 05:27 PM

[smax013]

brainout, on 27 August 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

It was an actual 'retail' license. You buy it in a store. Retail Box, MS' own, whole bit. When I went on the internet to register as a result of MOVING it to the new machine, I was denied activation with no explanation. Didn't even go to a website, the dialogue box just said I'd installed it before, not on the machine I was on, so no go. It was 3 am and I was given an option to call for activation. Basta.

So, did you call? If not, then Microsoft has not denied you activation yet. The Internet activation commonly fails if it has been installed on another computer. So, then you call in and tell them what you are doing (i.e. that you are moving it to a new computer) and they should and usually do activate it.

Quote

And that ties to your second point about being forced to use newer things and does that suck -- it sure does, and not because of merely newer. THERE IS NO REASON why old ASCII files of the past, with the extension prn cannot be read, except that they are differently defined now by later versions of Windblows. NO REASON why wk1 files cannot be read; they just stopped allowing it. Many things in older format could be still read by the actual machine, with the right software. But they won't READ that software, in later versions, so in effect and over time, the older stuff won't be read.

Computer files can last a whole lot longer than paper. The whole idea fueling the computer 'revolution' was a way to PRESERVE DATA (i.e., the digitization projects by Gutenberg and Google, archives.org and many libraries throughout the world). So it won't be preserved with this counterproductive attitude, which is wholly unnecessary. They are cutting the wrong corners.

Computers could be a lot simpler and more productive than they are now. But instead of actually improving the product, they went the defective car route of adding tail fins and all kinds of nonsense; and the core functions, are gradually reduced.

It really is easier to jot passwords down on paper, than to learn the software needed to store them. Easier and faster to dial phone numbers, than to store them in a cellphone which next year, won't be able to port your numbers over. All that analog stuff still could work, but we had to chuck it. Better sound, picture, and yeah heavier too.

Don't get me wrong. I'm rabid about automating. I automate everything I can, always on the lookout for a faster, better procedure, and I don't give a fig about appearance, politics, or anything else. WHAT IS THE BEST WAY -- that's all I care about. So I'm not at all against computers, nor against change. But it has to be the right kind of change. As it stands, the cure is far worse than the disease. Our phones don't work as well as they used to, TV quality is less, we're busier than ever so not saving time. Every index of what should constitute improvement is turning in the opposite direction. There was a sort of golden time between 1995-2002, when we saw big payoff in hardware and software, other technological innovations. Big productivity boost. But it's gone now.

What used to take me 10 minutes to do in DOS -- basic core stuff like writing letters, printing -- now takes much longer, because one glitch after the next occurs. All day today I got nothing done. First I lost dial tone, so for an hour with Comcast and of course they know nothing, modem is working so it must be the phones, but the phones work fine coming in. Then every time I touched the computer to go to a webpage, long delay no one knows why or how or what. Then works. No reason. Sound works, then suddenly doesn't. Video works, then suddenly doesn't. One USB cable works fine then when connected again just as securely.. doesn't. Have to guess at USB ports, guess at installations, guess guess guess.

THE NOT KNOWING. Disparate key sequences on different devices, running from one computer to the next to check on its status, finding out that oh Outlook Express will only accept a store folder if it's on an NTFS drive -- what? -- and on and on. I've not slept since .. Saturday? Friday? I don't remember.

It wasn't this convoluted 10 years ago. Stuff worked.

It's not SMART change. But I'll stop here, because I'm not arguing with you. I'm just incensed at what I suddenly realize to be a major core weakness threatening worldwide stability of longterm information.

I have been involved with computer support since the late 80s and early 90s...first for work (in college) but then as a "hobby" helping out friends and relatives (I am a structural engineer by profession).

And from my perspective, it was just as convoluted back then...just in different ways.

You fondly recall DOS. While there were definitely nice things about DOS, all was not smooth sailing. A big problem with DOS was that ALL programs had to have their own drivers for things like printers. So, instead of ONE printer driver for everything, you had to have a driver for WordPerfect and a driver for Lotus 1-2-3.

And I have been dealing with old formats that don't work well with newer machines for years. I have dealt with such issues back around the time that XP came out. That is the nature of software...as things "progress", things change and older formats are no longer supported.

All keep in mind that what you might consider not be the "right kind of change", many other DO consider to be the "right kind of change". Case in point, there were WAY fewer people who used computers back in the day of DOS. This was partly due to economics of computing back then, but also somewhat because many people had trouble dealing with a command line interface.

The point is that "right kind of change" is in the eye of the beholder.

Case in point, there are people who really like Windows 8...including the Metro UI. Who am I to say that it is not the "right kind of change" for them? It might not necessarily be the "right kind of change" for me, but it is likely 'right enough" for me that I can live with it if need be (which I won't need to as Windows 7 will be around for a while).

[brainout]

smax013, on 27 August 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

brainout, on 27 August 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

It was an actual 'retail' license. You buy it in a store. Retail Box, MS' own, whole bit. When I went on the internet to register as a result of MOVING it to the new machine, I was denied activation with no explanation. Didn't even go to a website, the dialogue box just said I'd installed it before, not on the machine I was on, so no go. It was 3 am and I was given an option to call for activation. Basta.

So, did you call? If not, then Microsoft has not denied you activation yet. The Internet activation commonly fails if it has been installed on another computer. So, then you call in and tell them what you are doing (i.e. that you are moving it to a new computer) and they should and usually do activate it.

Quote

And that ties to your second point about being forced to use newer things and does that suck -- it sure does, and not because of merely newer. THERE IS NO REASON why old ASCII files of the past, with the extension prn cannot be read, except that they are differently defined now by later versions of Windblows. NO REASON why wk1 files cannot be read; they just stopped allowing it. Many things in older format could be still read by the actual machine, with the right software. But they won't READ that software, in later versions, so in effect and over time, the older stuff won't be read.

Computer files can last a whole lot longer than paper. The whole idea fueling the computer 'revolution' was a way to PRESERVE DATA (i.e., the digitization projects by Gutenberg and Google, archives.org and many libraries throughout the world). So it won't be preserved with this counterproductive attitude, which is wholly unnecessary. They are cutting the wrong corners.

Computers could be a lot simpler and more productive than they are now. But instead of actually improving the product, they went the defective car route of adding tail fins and all kinds of nonsense; and the core functions, are gradually reduced.

It really is easier to jot passwords down on paper, than to learn the software needed to store them. Easier and faster to dial phone numbers, than to store them in a cellphone which next year, won't be able to port your numbers over. All that analog stuff still could work, but we had to chuck it. Better sound, picture, and yeah heavier too.

Don't get me wrong. I'm rabid about automating. I automate everything I can, always on the lookout for a faster, better procedure, and I don't give a fig about appearance, politics, or anything else. WHAT IS THE BEST WAY -- that's all I care about. So I'm not at all against computers, nor against change. But it has to be the right kind of change. As it stands, the cure is far worse than the disease. Our phones don't work as well as they used to, TV quality is less, we're busier than ever so not saving time. Every index of what should constitute improvement is turning in the opposite direction. There was a sort of golden time between 1995-2002, when we saw big payoff in hardware and software, other technological innovations. Big productivity boost. But it's gone now.

What used to take me 10 minutes to do in DOS -- basic core stuff like writing letters, printing -- now takes much longer, because one glitch after the next occurs. All day today I got nothing done. First I lost dial tone, so for an hour with Comcast and of course they know nothing, modem is working so it must be the phones, but the phones work fine coming in. Then every time I touched the computer to go to a webpage, long delay no one knows why or how or what. Then works. No reason. Sound works, then suddenly doesn't. Video works, then suddenly doesn't. One USB cable works fine then when connected again just as securely.. doesn't. Have to guess at USB ports, guess at installations, guess guess guess.

THE NOT KNOWING. Disparate key sequences on different devices, running from one computer to the next to check on its status, finding out that oh Outlook Express will only accept a store folder if it's on an NTFS drive -- what? -- and on and on. I've not slept since .. Saturday? Friday? I don't remember.

It wasn't this convoluted 10 years ago. Stuff worked.

It's not SMART change. But I'll stop here, because I'm not arguing with you. I'm just incensed at what I suddenly realize to be a major core weakness threatening worldwide stability of longterm information.

I have been involved with computer support since the late 80s and early 90s...first for work (in college) but then as a "hobby" helping out friends and relatives (I am a structural engineer by profession).

And from my perspective, it was just as convoluted back then...just in different ways.

You fondly recall DOS. While there were definitely nice things about DOS, all was not smooth sailing. A big problem with DOS was that ALL programs had to have their own drivers for things like printers. So, instead of ONE printer driver for everything, you had to have a driver for WordPerfect and a driver for Lotus 1-2-3.

And I have been dealing with old formats that don't work well with newer machines for years. I have dealt with such issues back around the time that XP came out. That is the nature of software...as things "progress", things change and older formats are no longer supported.

All keep in mind that what you might consider not be the "right kind of change", many other DO consider to be the "right kind of change". Case in point, there were WAY fewer people who used computers back in the day of DOS. This was partly due to economics of computing back then, but also somewhat because many people had trouble dealing with a command line interface.

The point is that "right kind of change" is in the eye of the beholder.

Case in point, there are people who really like Windows 8...including the Metro UI. Who am I to say that it is not the "right kind of change" for them? It might not necessarily be the "right kind of change" for me, but it is likely 'right enough" for me that I can live with it if need be (which I won't need to as Windows 7 will be around for a while).

YES THEY DID DENY ACTIVATION OVER THE INTERNET, BECAUSE INSTALLATION WAS HAPPENING ON A DIFFERENT MACHINE. Why are you asking this? I already answered your point about calling. No, I didn't call, I installed my older Word instead. I'm not waiting on hold for an hour and go through whatever other nonsense there is to argue the matter. Point is, I shouldn't have to go through it, at all. Other vendors aren't so tyrannical and paranoid. IT SHOULD NOT MATTER if you install holographic (lol what paranoia) software discs you have IN HAND on whatever machine. You have the right to move them. You yourself made that very point.

Holographic. That's MS. It's a sick corporate attitude to not allow the PURCHASER of the software move the software to whatever computer he wants. So when I find that attitude, I realize the company is badly managed, and I avoid its stock and its products. Paranoia kills a company. First it expands, puffed up, then dies. Corporate physics.

As for your other points, I don't hold DOS fondly; it's annoying, too. It is easier to use than Windows. It is more reliable, faster. But it also is annoying in the same way that Linux is annoying. Fact is, today you have billions of confused posts about HOW DO I? regarding Windows stuff and Mac stuff and Linux stuff -- problems galore.

Now you might want to call that progress. I don't. Progress is the gradual elimination of problems. Reduction of features and backwards-compatibility, increase in tyrannical handling, is regression, not progress. Freedom is messy, so progress will be messy too. But when core functions done 10 years ago require fewer steps to get highly productive results versus today, that is NOT progress. When 10 years ago you knew where programs were stored but today you don't know, that's not progress.

Something's vitally wrong when the 'solution' most offered for x problem, is to uninstall and reinstall. To unplug the machine and plug it in later. WHAT? Imagine a computer were a car. How long would you keep that car? Not long.

When 10 years ago you could install a program on a machine and didn't have to wrestle with some 'policeman' interface ASSuming you were pirating or abusing copyright, versus today -- it's not progress. Those who pirate software are few, stupid, and will inevitably get their comeuppance. So too, those who tyrannize the innocent. It's a trend of history, and that trend is occurring now.

This post has been edited by brainout: 28 August 2012 - 07:27 AM

[LiveBrianD]

What smax is saying is that, if activation over the internet fails, call them (I think it'll say the number in the activation wizard), explain the situation, and ASK them if they'll activate it. If this is legit and all, they probably will.

[johhny]

You can download movie maker online from www.microsoft.com and install on your computer for your work.

[brainout]

LiveBrianD, on 28 August 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

What smax is saying is that, if activation over the internet fails, call them (I think it'll say the number in the activation wizard), explain the situation, and ASK them if they'll activate it. If this is legit and all, they probably will.

Yes, I know that, but since it's Word 2002, the number is outdated. So then I have to spend another hour or two finding the right number, waiting on hold, explaining that the original PC is dying so I'm moving the software. I opted instead to just install the earlier version Word 2000, which I'd uninstalled from the other machine anyway, and frankly works better than 2002.

The principle is still the same: I shouldn't have had to call. It's a retail package I bought new in a store, not bundled with the computer, holographic discs in hand. So when I find a company with a policy like that, I just say NO and go elsewhere. You don't have to get permission to change your car parts, so you shouldn't have to get permission to change your PC software, IF YOU HAVE THE ACTUAL DISCS. This kind of paranoia makes no sense: hard drives die, computers die, people upgrade, and this kind of thing dissuades people from buying anything new.

End of story.

[smax013]

brainout, on 29 August 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 28 August 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

What smax is saying is that, if activation over the internet fails, call them (I think it'll say the number in the activation wizard), explain the situation, and ASK them if they'll activate it. If this is legit and all, they probably will.

Yes, I know that, but since it's Word 2002, the number is outdated. So then I have to spend another hour or two finding the right number, waiting on hold, explaining that the original PC is dying so I'm moving the software. I opted instead to just install the earlier version Word 2000, which I'd uninstalled from the other machine anyway, and frankly works better than 2002.

The principle is still the same: I shouldn't have had to call. It's a retail package I bought new in a store, not bundled with the computer, holographic discs in hand. So when I find a company with a policy like that, I just say NO and go elsewhere. You don't have to get permission to change your car parts, so you shouldn't have to get permission to change your PC software, IF YOU HAVE THE ACTUAL DISCS. This kind of paranoia makes no sense: hard drives die, computers die, people upgrade, and this kind of thing dissuades people from buying anything new.

End of story.

Sorry, but it does make sense. There are LOTS of people who don't think that they have to go and pay for something when they can just download a pirated copy off the Internet. And Microsoft (or any other company for that matter) does not know that you are one of the people who actually did go pay for it.

Now, does it suck that legitimate purchasers have to basically be treated like they are criminals in order to use software that they legally purchased? You betcha. But, Microsoft's implementation of activation is actually fairly reasonable...compared to others. The vast majority of the time the online activation works just fine (I have moved retail versions Office XP and Office 2003 to new computers with no problems). And for the few times that there is some issue, they provide a way for you still deal with it. Yes, it sucks that you can to call in and might be on hold for a period of time (since you apparently did not even try, we don't know how long it would have been) before getting it resolved. The fact is that people call into Microsoft everyday to get programs re-activated when the online activation method fails. It sucks that you were faced with the hassle, but you actually did have a way to potentially get it re-installed even if it was potentially a hassle. But, there are a lot of things in life that suck. In the end, you found a solution that seems to work for you.

I will note that your car analogy does not quite work. First of all, computer software is way easier and cheaper to copy than a car part is. Further more, even if the analogy was truly "parallel", taking a car part from an old car and putting it into a new car generally isn't gonna happen as most of the time car parts are not 100% interchangeable from car to car. So, moving a part won't involve anyone's permission because there is a good chance it won't fit in the new car. Lastly, you were not really changing PC software...i.e. removing an old piece of software and installing a new piece of software. You were "moving" software from one computer to another. When you "change" a part in a car, you go to the automotive store and buy a new part. There is not stopping you from going to the store and buying a new piece of software and installing it...you don't need permission.

[brainout]

smax013, on 29 August 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

brainout, on 29 August 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 28 August 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

What smax is saying is that, if activation over the internet fails, call them (I think it'll say the number in the activation wizard), explain the situation, and ASK them if they'll activate it. If this is legit and all, they probably will.

Yes, I know that, but since it's Word 2002, the number is outdated. So then I have to spend another hour or two finding the right number, waiting on hold, explaining that the original PC is dying so I'm moving the software. I opted instead to just install the earlier version Word 2000, which I'd uninstalled from the other machine anyway, and frankly works better than 2002.

The principle is still the same: I shouldn't have had to call. It's a retail package I bought new in a store, not bundled with the computer, holographic discs in hand. So when I find a company with a policy like that, I just say NO and go elsewhere. You don't have to get permission to change your car parts, so you shouldn't have to get permission to change your PC software, IF YOU HAVE THE ACTUAL DISCS. This kind of paranoia makes no sense: hard drives die, computers die, people upgrade, and this kind of thing dissuades people from buying anything new.

End of story.

Sorry, but it does make sense. There are LOTS of people who don't think that they have to go and pay for something when they can just download a pirated copy off the Internet. And Microsoft (or any other company for that matter) does not know that you are one of the people who actually did go pay for it.

Now, does it suck that legitimate purchasers have to basically be treated like they are criminals in order to use software that they legally purchased? You betcha. But, Microsoft's implementation of activation is actually fairly reasonable...compared to others. The vast majority of the time the online activation works just fine (I have moved retail versions Office XP and Office 2003 to new computers with no problems). And for the few times that there is some issue, they provide a way for you still deal with it. Yes, it sucks that you can to call in and might be on hold for a period of time (since you apparently did not even try, we don't know how long it would have been) before getting it resolved. The fact is that people call into Microsoft everyday to get programs re-activated when the online activation method fails. It sucks that you were faced with the hassle, but you actually did have a way to potentially get it re-installed even if it was potentially a hassle. But, there are a lot of things in life that suck. In the end, you found a solution that seems to work for you.

I will note that your car analogy does not quite work. First of all, computer software is way easier and cheaper to copy than a car part is. Further more, even if the analogy was truly "parallel", taking a car part from an old car and putting it into a new car generally isn't gonna happen as most of the time car parts are not 100% interchangeable from car to car. So, moving a part won't involve anyone's permission because there is a good chance it won't fit in the new car. Lastly, you were not really changing PC software...i.e. removing an old piece of software and installing a new piece of software. You were "moving" software from one computer to another. When you "change" a part in a car, you go to the automotive store and buy a new part. There is not stopping you from going to the store and buying a new piece of software and installing it...you don't need permission.

Yes, moving a thing that remains the same from place a to place b. That is exactly like taking a piston out of car a and putting it into car b. So, the analogy is quite literally apt. Same person, same piston, two different cars. Same person, same software, two different computers. There is nothing reasonable about MS or anyone else, disputing with a customer who wants to move his software from one machine to another. The company has no right to inquire, dispute, etc. -- EXCEPT under whatever terms were signed for the licensing agreement. This is not a piracy issue.

So, it becomes a matter of choosing whose software you will buy: mediocre and buggy software made by a company so paranoid it uses holographs on the disks and makes you call it when you want to move the mediocre buggy programs -- or a typical software company without holographic hysteria, which lets you install reinstall or uninstall FROM GENUINE DISC as often as need be, since the possession of the GENUINE DISC is proof itself of validity, not piracy?

It boils down to good business practices. In the case of changing a piston that works from one car to another, or changing software from one machine to another, there can be many VALID reasons for that. Still, only the same piston is operating. No new piston, as you mistakenly assumed. SAME piston. SAME software. And, the license might say one per computer or one per user; here, per computer. Well and good. IT STILL IS ONE COMPUTER, especially if some OTHER part died in the computer so it cannot run the SAME software. Dead drive, dead registry, anything can cause the need to MOVE the part from computer a, to computer b. With no violation of license.

That a company brands its rightful consumers as guilty until proven innocent, speaks ill of company policy. At 3am when your computer dies, or a nearly 1pm as happened early today just before an important meeting, a customer can't afford to spend downtime. POSSESSION OF THE PART should be conclusive. But to paranoia, nothing is conclusive.

So, smax: thus stands the case. You made thoughtful arguments for one side, and I presented the other. Seems like at this point the matter is best ended. I don't see what public benefit there is in continuing the back-and-forth on this topic.

This post has been edited by brainout: 29 August 2012 - 04:26 PM

[brainout]

UPDATE: in Win7, you can still run Pixelan -- and get a real timeline in Movie Maker -- if instead of Windows Live Movie Maker, you get version 2.6 (for integrated video) or 6.0 (if you have a separate video card). Click here for the link to download them. Then add in Pixelan.

Whew.

[brainout]

UPDATE on Windows Moviemaker 2.6. That program is like the one in XP, so doesn't do HD. Same interface. So it's good for editing or making videos designed for x480 pixels, that's as high as it goes. But it does run in Win7.

You'd be better off with Moviemaker 6.0, as it will do HD up to 1080p. Pixelan says you should have a dedicated graphics card to use it, but I'm not so sure. Certainly if you want to do 1080p from a screen capture, you'd have to have a screen capable of that level to even do a face video or screen recording. My Dell 6510 is FHD, so has that (it also has an nVidia card). But if you don't plan on doing vids greater than x 720p, it should work. The integrated cards do support that, from what I've seen.

Of the two, MM 2.6 is far easier to use, just like the XP version has a better interface. By contrast, MM6.0 won't let you create separate collection folders, but just lumps everything together into 'Imported Media'. Moreover, the latter's interface isn't shaded, so it's hard to know where to size the frames between the program options and the screen itself. There's no stop button, no rewind, and other annoyances. But it will do HD, and it will also let you preview in almost the same resolution as HD, and it will let you preview in fullscreen mode. It still only allows one added audio track, but you can circumvent that by making a 'video' with the other track, and then putting the 2nd track beneath. Finally, 6.0 offers more effects which are quite good.

Generally I use AVS4YOU software for my videos, but they too restrict you to 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio; except, version 3.5 of AVS4YOU editor, and its Converter software (in any version) will let you preserve the actual recorded aspect ratio (i.e., if you recorded the screen of a 1280x1024 monitor). You can get the older version of the Editor, still. For $60 you get a lifetime usage of all their software; the Audio Editor, Video Editor, Player and Converter are worthwhile. Not sure the rest of what they offer is worthwhile, but for the four programs mentioned, it's a good deal. I use the Converter a lot, batching little videos to make one big one or splitting one big one to make smaller ones; changing audio and video effects (you cannot add audio to it, but you can do a lot with video). The only problem with that program is that it doesn't stream well, even if you've a great graphics card and plenty of RAM or processor power (i.e., quad core in 3rd generation or even Xeon, with topnotch card, and 4+ GB of RAM). I don't know why its streaming problem occurs. It doesn't like MS Video 8 or 9 format, which is the default in a lot of Logitech webcams. Special effects in AVS4YOU are pretty good, especially Newsprint (which turns the image into an etching but not embossing), 'Warm Glow', and 'Glass' (these latter two impart a sheen to the center of the video and slightly blur the background).

Moviemaker 6.0 has the same streaming problem, so there's always a lag. Else, I'd rather use it.