[MikeTayon]

OK, I am not a professional, just a hobbyist, but am ok with holding my own in discussions about computers and networking, that being said, I have a few questions about upgrading from 802.11b/g Wi-Fi to "N" Wireless routers, or 802.11b/g/n.

I "get" that the rated speed of a router is just that, it's the highest speed a router can handle/process, and that is at best. OK, so if I have a basic router rated at 54kb/s or what ever, and have now switched to a faster ISP (AT&T DSL to Comcast Cable), should/would changing my router to a 802.11b/g/n standard be better overall?

I am buying a Belkin "MIMO" 802.11b/g/n router, to replace my basic Belkin router and assume, that with this switch, AND the higher ISP speed available, that at the very least, my laptop in the kitchen will "see" the difference. As of yet, using the basic Belkin 54kb/s router with the new Comcast speed, I "see" no difference when I'm using my home Wi-Fi in the kitchen on my Acer Netbook.

So, with the new "MIMO" router, AND a 802.11b/g/n dongle/adapter on my Acer Netbook, THIS should somewhat increase my speed, is this correct?

I understand that in part, speeds are dependent on how many people are logged on not only in my home, but on the Comcast network (right?), and the distance between pc and router can affect speed, as can cheap cords in the modem connection from Comcast modem to my router, stuff like this. I am explaining that, so whom ever replies here, won't think I'm totally ignorant(In my opinion....LOL)

Thanks for any replies, and help!

Mike

[LiveBrianD]

Generally, your router is fast enough to not bottleneck your internet connection. You generally won't come close to the theoretical maximum of a wireless connection due to interference, environmental factors, etc, but a 802.11g (54mbps) connection should still be enough for most connections. Also, if you're just browsing the internet, you simply don't need all that fast of a connection - 3-5mbps down is enough (unless you're streaming HD video or downloading stuff), for instance. At that point, the CPU speed of the computer matters more, so it can render the page faster (your netbook is probably a bottleneck there).

If you have a, say, 10mbps connection, you have 10mbps total for ALL of your computers. If one guy is streaming HD video or downloading stuff, he'll slow things down for everyone. However, if several people are just surfing the internet, it doesn't matter. (also, you only use bandwidth when actually loading the page, in general, so that makes it even less of a problem) If you're further away from the router on a wireless connection, that might slow it down. I doubt cheap ethernet cords between the router and modem will matter - after all, even a basic CAT5 cable is rated for an 100mbps connection, which is downright fast compared to most internet connections (which are more like 1.5-30mbps).

[MikeTayon]

Well, the "main" computer, that is connect by Ethernet from the router, is a Core2 Duo, but yes, the Acer will definitely "bottleneck" as you mentioned.

My whole concern is degradation of speed from 2-3 users, distance, so I'm thinking that the "N" Wireless will help this. So, we have theoretically 20 mbps? available, and with three of us logged on, and yes, we love Netflix and Youtube (LOL), then the extra speed from Comcast compared to AT&T and switching to "N" should actually benefit us overall, correct?

I think it's like Stereo Speakers ya know, If you have an amp rated at 100 Watts per channel, then you should have speakers rated at at least 150 Watts each

This post has been edited by MikeTayon: 05 September 2012 - 07:46 PM

[LiveBrianD]

It's hard to say what the actual speeds the router can give over wireless, but I'd estimate at least 30mbps. Like your internet connection, this is shared among all the computers (in this case, the ones connecting wirelessly). It's probably still faster than your internet connection, so I wouldn't worry about it. That said, 802.11n does offer better range (in theory anyway), and the extra bandwidth will definitely help with large network file transfers. (though I usually just use Ethernet for those)

Basically, between the 2 upgrades, the internet connection will make the most difference.

[smax013]

As LiveBrianD as stated, for the vast majority of residential home broadband users, their Internet connection will be the bottleneck in most cases even with an 802.11g WiFi network. Generally speaking, the reason to go to an 802.11n network is if you are transferring files BETWEEN computers (or other networked devices like NAS drives) on your local area network (aka LAN) and potentially better range.

802.11g networks tend to realistically offer about 20 Mbps throughput. This also depends on how close you are to the WiFI access point. The future you get from it, the slower the speeds. The closer you are to the higher the speeds (potentially up in the range of the 30 Mbps that LiveBrianD offered). Considering that it is highly likely that your new Comcast connection does not exceed 20 Mbps, it is more than likely that it will bottleneck you before the router will.

Next keep in mind that the Comcast speed it only "counted" when going from your house to Comcast's local switching point. Once you "enter" the main Internet "highway", there are lots of other factors that can effect your speed. Think of the speed that you are "paying for" as something like a speed limit. Frequently when you drive down the road, you might only be able to 35 mph when the speed limit is 45 or even 55 mph. This is due to the "other" traffic. The same is true for the Internet. There are lots of other factors out there that can effect your speed beyond the speed of your Comcast connection.

In addition, keep in mind that most Internet related "stuff" will not come close to using your full Comcast speed (likely something 6 Mbps on up depending on what you are paying for...I have the so-called "6 Mbps service" if I recall correctly, but can routinely get about 20 Mbps with SpeedTest.net). Typical browsing of websites will only use a faction. Even streaming the likes of Netflix would be fine typically with 5 Mbps.

The point behind all this is that when you test most stuff now with the new Comcast connection and the old router, you likely are not going to notice much of a difference. At best, you might notice a slow down of WiFi compared to a wired connection if you use your WiFi laptop a good distance from the router. To check things, test your connection on a wired computer and the WiFi computer with http://www.speedtest.net/ . This includes trying the WiFi computer at various distances from the router. I suspect that you likely will get pretty similar results until you start to move the WiFi computer a good distance from the router.

Now, this is not to say that getting an 802.11n router might not help. If you are getting a lot of interference or using a WiFi device at a greater distance, then it might help. And if you need to transfer files between computers, then it will definitely help. But, there is a reasonable chance that it may not help that much.

[mjd420nova]

I just went through this with a client. He decided he wanted everything upgraded to "N" WIFI. It was sold to him as a method to unblock his router and speed users access. Besides hunting down the "N" type WIFI cards for six laptops and four desktops. The old "B&G" setup would be relegated to videogame and tablet support. The Belkin was the choice and it really helped the throughput for each user. Download speeds for the game/tablet didn't show much change and may have been the bottle neck to start. I've also found that n types are more prone to interference from other more powerful sources, like microwaves and other n type sources. Two laptops next to each other made both whacko and antenna orientation did nothing to affect any difference.

[MikeTayon]

Thanks for the replies, I understand what you all said, but have already bought the router and 3 adapters, just waiting for them to come in. I needed a new router anyway, the one I have is over 4 years old, and since the newer "N" Belkin is backwards compatible, figured it's like buying a new coffee pot

As for bottlenecks, the bottleneck at the moment definitely seems to be the hard drive of this Acer Netbook

I'll post here in a few weeks, when I have switched to the new stuff, and let you know my thoughts, since we are this deep into the thread/subject anyway

Mike

[MikeTayon]

SLIGHT UPDATE

OK Guys, I am just starting to get the big picture here, I believe! LOL
The more I read, and re-read, this thread, coupled with equipment reviews and comments, and re-checking my equipment, the more I am starting to REALLY "get it". Thank you!

At this very moment, I'm reading about "Gigabit" stuff, and how it may play into my future needs or NOT! (that is, IF I go for a wired home LAN)I am also re-thinking my EXACT needs, based on the details you guys have pointed out and mentioned.

The first obvious consideration, is as mentioned, use Ethernet instead of Wi-Fi, this makes sense to me, more or less. But of course, the "wireless" convenience is also a consideration, at some point in all of this, such as when my Wife might want to kick back on the couch with a tablet while watching Oprah

I'll keep studying, and will almost assuredly be back here with questions, again, THANK you guys for the GREAT help and advice!

Mike

EDITED TO ADD:

OK, so let me see if I am really getting "IT" here, the Comcast feed is along the lines (pun intended) of 20Mbps and the current Belkin "G" router is a 54Mbps unit, so as I read, the "N" won't matter in the "through-put", correct?

So, to make sure I get MAX bandwidth for all 3 or 4 devices in my home, I need to either use Ethernet CAT% or better cable, or move closer to the router, or would suing a new adapter with external antennas help say for my netbook in the kitchen? Of course, it has an internal card right now with circuit/printed antenna, so I'm thinking one of those fancy external (USB) Adapters with an external antenna (2db gain?) might improve reception, yes?

My WHOLE point or "problem" or "question" is HOW to get MAX bandwidth at each device or unit, USING the Wi-Fi signal. I have a netbook, my 2nd bedroom has an XBOX 360 where they like to watch Netflix, and the bedroom 1 where the router is, well, we will watch internet stuff there, youtube, netflix, hulu, etc.

With just these three (1 being hardwired to the router) I should get about 3-5 Mbps bandwidth at each machine, yes?

SO, "upgrading" to "N" would only help in the radio wave aspect of it all, but of course, I will STILL only get up to 15 or Mbps even on my netbook at any given time assuming I'm streaming down, right?

I have already seen the connection degrade on the netbook when the signal isn't optimum, it goes down to 36Mbps "connection speed" when the display says "GOOD" or "VERY GOOD" for the Wi-Fi connection, and on occasion, it will go up to 46/48 Mbps and say "Excellent" or "Very Good".

This correlates with what you guys said about DISTANCE, I get that, now

This post has been edited by MikeTayon: 09 September 2012 - 09:41 AM

[MikeTayon]

Having problems getting the Belkin "N" Gigabit router to connect to Comcast, but preliminary Wi-Fi connection between Acer Aspire One (Netbook) and Wi-Fi router are just fine, no real signal boost, and definitely not faster, it SEEMS like it could be if the darn Acer HD was faster!!!!

[LiveBrianD]

As I recall, when I changed my router (I also use comcast), I had to go through some activation process (I was getting automatically redirected to the page) because the MAC address they saw was now different.

[smax013]

MikeTayon, on 09 September 2012 - 09:23 AM, said:

SLIGHT UPDATE

OK Guys, I am just starting to get the big picture here, I believe! LOL
The more I read, and re-read, this thread, coupled with equipment reviews and comments, and re-checking my equipment, the more I am starting to REALLY "get it". Thank you!

At this very moment, I'm reading about "Gigabit" stuff, and how it may play into my future needs or NOT! (that is, IF I go for a wired home LAN)I am also re-thinking my EXACT needs, based on the details you guys have pointed out and mentioned.

The first obvious consideration, is as mentioned, use Ethernet instead of Wi-Fi, this makes sense to me, more or less. But of course, the "wireless" convenience is also a consideration, at some point in all of this, such as when my Wife might want to kick back on the couch with a tablet while watching Oprah

I'll keep studying, and will almost assuredly be back here with questions, again, THANK you guys for the GREAT help and advice!

Mike

EDITED TO ADD:

OK, so let me see if I am really getting "IT" here, the Comcast feed is along the lines (pun intended) of 20Mbps and the current Belkin "G" router is a 54Mbps unit, so as I read, the "N" won't matter in the "through-put", correct?

Nominally, that is correct.

The one slight "correction" is that a typical 802.11g network will only get about 25 Mbps or less of throughput. The 54 Mbps for 802.11g is the MAXIMUM theoretically possible. Realistically, you are never going to get anywhere near that throughput. Assuming you have good signal strength (i.e. reasonably close without any major objects blocking the signal and no interference from other devices be they cordless phones or microwaves), you typically get about half of the maximum throughput...i.e. about 20 Mbps.

Thus, if your Comcast service is 20 Mbps or greater, then you might gain a slight boost in throughput with an 802.11n network. The main way you will gain throughput is that 802.11n networks generally have greater range, so that means that you will get your full Comcast throughput at greater distances from the router.

Quote

So, to make sure I get MAX bandwidth for all 3 or 4 devices in my home, I need to either use Ethernet CAT% or better cable, or move closer to the router, or would suing a new adapter with external antennas help say for my netbook in the kitchen? Of course, it has an internal card right now with circuit/printed antenna, so I'm thinking one of those fancy external (USB) Adapters with an external antenna (2db gain?) might improve reception, yes?

My WHOLE point or "problem" or "question" is HOW to get MAX bandwidth at each device or unit, USING the Wi-Fi signal. I have a netbook, my 2nd bedroom has an XBOX 360 where they like to watch Netflix, and the bedroom 1 where the router is, well, we will watch internet stuff there, youtube, netflix, hulu, etc.

With just these three (1 being hardwired to the router) I should get about 3-5 Mbps bandwidth at each machine, yes?

SO, "upgrading" to "N" would only help in the radio wave aspect of it all, but of course, I will STILL only get up to 15 or Mbps even on my netbook at any given time assuming I'm streaming down, right?

I have already seen the connection degrade on the netbook when the signal isn't optimum, it goes down to 36Mbps "connection speed" when the display says "GOOD" or "VERY GOOD" for the Wi-Fi connection, and on occasion, it will go up to 46/48 Mbps and say "Excellent" or "Very Good".

This correlates with what you guys said about DISTANCE, I get that, now

Getting the maximum bandwidth at each device is not just a function of getting access to ALL your Comcast bandwidth through your network. It can also be a function of how well the router "routes". Some "cheaper" routers might get overwhelmed by having three or more devices making heavy use of data. This might then cause more "overhead" at the router which means that not all of a 20 Mbps Comcast throughput (as an example) will be divided among the devices. Some might be "lost" in the process of the router "dividing up" the data to be sent to the appropriate device.

[smax013]

LiveBrianD, on 16 September 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

As I recall, when I changed my router (I also use comcast), I had to go through some activation process (I was getting automatically redirected to the page) because the MAC address they saw was now different.

You should not have to "activate" a new router (i.e. call/tell Comcast the new MAC address). They have not required that to my knowledge in more than a decade...at least in the two places that I have lived.

[smax013]

MikeTayon, on 16 September 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Having problems getting the Belkin "N" Gigabit router to connect to Comcast, but preliminary Wi-Fi connection between Acer Aspire One (Netbook) and Wi-Fi router are just fine, no real signal boost, and definitely not faster, it SEEMS like it could be if the darn Acer HD was faster!!!!

Did you reboot/power down the modem when you changed the router? Or did you just leave the modem power up and swap out the router?