[LiveBrianD]

OK, so I think I'm finally going to get around to it this time...

What's a good cheap SFF desktop? So far, I've looked at the HP s5-1205z ($400), Lenovo H330 (i3, $450 at Frys), and maybe an Acer ($450). I'm thinking that an AMD APU might be the best bet, in terms of general performance (the machine won't have a discrete GPU in it). I'd like to take the DIY route, but I haven't see any good cheap SFF cases like those (for instance, there are some 1155 Foxconn barebones, but I've heard the PSU fan is loud in a lot of those), and I don't want a mini-ITX one with a really limited TDP and all, so... (Note: due to past experiences, Dell is absolutely NOT an option - they need to learn that saving 50 cents and making the side of the case fit a tad loosely, causing it to vibrate unless you close the gap with something, is NOT OK. I'd also rather avoid Acer.) There happens to be a really cheap Acer here, but I'm not exactly sure I want an old CPU like that and 6150LE graphics.

[ElfBane]

I don't really have any advice on component specifics, just general considerations, as follows;

1. Cooling is a major concern. I would want an SFF case with two fans if possible, AND a fan on the CPU. That plus the PSU fan should be enough to keep air moving around.

2. They are quite the PITA to build and work on... not as bad as lappys, but close. Wanna troubleshoot a RAM problem? There will be a cable in the way! Move the cable?...but then it partially blocks airflow from a fan. Thank the gods for SATA cables and SSDs, because these smaller components do make it easier (IDE cabling was a real pain in SFF).

3. Be prepared for SFF-specific parts to be more expensive. And don't buy anything with the word "marine" (as used in boats) in it!! The word "marine" will definitely jack up the price!

Hope this helps.

[compnovo]

Hey LiveB,
You didn't mention what you plan to use this for, which might help with recommendations. I've built a couple of SFFs, one with a Foxconn kit that lives under my TV (the PSU noise is not excessive at all) and a nice little i5 2400 system I put together for a friend --- he uses it for his boat's navigation software (I didn't use marine parts but it's still out of your budget goal). Both miniITX, no problem with thermals. They can be challenging, as ElfBane notes, but they're still fun to build.

[LiveBrianD]

This is for my grandmother actually - word processing, web browsing, email. She's currently using a Pentium 4-based Celeron machine, so anything is an upgrade.

I've dealt with SFF machined before and yes, I know they're a pain to work with, but I doubt these will be opened much (if ever).

Interestingly, the SFF HP Compaq 8200s at school run pretty cool - CPU idle temps in the 30s (I think they have fans for intake, the CPU, and the PSU) I suspect the cooling might not be as good on the consumer ones though.

[waldojim]

I am only putting this here because it is complete, clean, powerful, and includes dedicated graphics.
http://store.apple.c...e-intel-core-i5

[LiveBrianD]

I think that's a bit too expensive though (the machines I've been looking at are in the $400-500 price range). Also, she's used to Windows, and adding that would be an extra $100.

[waldojim]

I only put it up there because of what it is. Truth is, there aren't any sff Windows PC's with any real power behind them.... hard to argue with having power that is otherwise unavailable.

[LiveBrianD]

The thing is, I don't think the machine really needs much power, considering what it's used for. Besides, I've seen plenty of i5 and i7 sff Windows machines, and you might be able to put a 7750 in one if you wanted to.

[waldojim]

I guess that depends on the definition of small form factor. Still, do they have a screen already? If not, there is a DIY all in one available.

[LiveBrianD]

Yeah, she already has a monitor and I'd rather not replace it if not needed (it's an older 19" LCD with DVI and VGA, and I'll buy a DVI-HDMI adapter if necessary to avoid VGA). Otherwise, I'd probably consider AIOs.

Space isn't a huge issue here (she used to have a CRT and that fit on the desk), but it'd certainly be nice to have a smaller machine - see the links I posted above for an idea. I'm not talking about nettop-sized machines.

[compnovo]

Have you looked at mini towers? I've built two PCs into this case...
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811147123
...and although it's a bit light weight it's a very competent little case. I don't consider it SFF but it's sounding like that's not the way you may be heading.

[LiveBrianD]

I was thinking of using that exact case actually - I'd get more options there for the CPU anyway.

You have one of those, right? If so, how is the fan noise?

[compnovo]

LiveBrianD, on 29 September 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

I was thinking of using that exact case actually - I'd get more options there for the CPU anyway.

You have one of those, right? If so, how is the fan noise?

Two: I built one for my daughter-in-law and one for my wife. They both have discrete video cards, SSDS with platter drives for storage, and stock cooling fans, and both are surprisingly quiet and with the stock case fans. No thermal issues either.

[LiveBrianD]

How sensitive are you to noise? I'm just wondering, since some of the newegg reviews say it's a bit loud (it's a matter of opinion of course).

[compnovo]

LiveBrianD, on 29 September 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

How sensitive are you to noise?

I'm almost 63. Do the math.

Actually, there's no meaningful way for me to answer your question, it's too subjective. I can tell you my son also thinks it's a quiet case.

This post has been edited by compnovo: 29 September 2012 - 07:23 PM

[LiveBrianD]

compnovo, on 29 September 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 29 September 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

How sensitive are you to noise?

I'm almost 63. Do the math.

Actually, there's no meaningful way for me to answer your question, it's too subjective. I can tell you my son also thinks it's a quiet case.

My grandmother is older than that, so I guess it might not be an issue there. I won't be putting a discrete graphics card in this machine, so I doubt it's a big deal. I'm also thinking of simply removing the front fan in the case if I go that route, since I doubt I'll be needing it.

Here's a way to put it - I think your Antec Sonata has the same 120mm fan (Antec Tricool) that my 300 has. How noisy is that fan in your opinion, and on what setting? (I set mine on low, and it's definitely audible, but it's not all that much.)

[compnovo]

LiveBrianD, on 29 September 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Here's a way to put it - I think your Antec Sonata has the same 120mm fan (Antec Tricool) that my 300 has. How noisy is that fan in your opinion, and on what setting? (I set mine on low, and it's definitely audible, but it's not all that much.)

Still can't help: I swapped out the back fan and installed the H80 Corsair water cooler a while back, and attached the 120 to the back of the hard drive cage to push extra air over the video card. Apples to oranges, I'm afraid, since I now have three fans instead of one.

[Stevey]

LiveBrianD you're 63? And all this time I had been thinking you were a student...lol...

This post has been edited by Stevey: 29 September 2012 - 09:22 PM

[LiveBrianD]

Stevey, on 29 September 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

LiveBrianD you're 63? And all this time I had been thinking you were a student...lol...

No! Compnovo is - I'm 15.

[LiveBrianD]

compnovo, on 29 September 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 29 September 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Here's a way to put it - I think your Antec Sonata has the same 120mm fan (Antec Tricool) that my 300 has. How noisy is that fan in your opinion, and on what setting? (I set mine on low, and it's definitely audible, but it's not all that much.)

Still can't help: I swapped out the back fan and installed the H80 Corsair water cooler a while back, and attached the 120 to the back of the hard drive cage to push extra air over the video card. Apples to oranges, I'm afraid, since I now have three fans instead of one.

Darn... I guess I'll just have to take your word for it then. I'm not sure that she needs a mini-tower though, as I was planning to use a network-based backup solution and thus have one hard drive instead of two in the machine.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 30 September 2012 - 07:36 AM