[waldojim]

So after hearing so many reviews telling us how great Zorin is, I decided to try it out. I installed this on a 160GB spinner, as I doubt I will keep it for any length of time. That decision came not from any hatred of Linux, just the way Zorin is being sold. The basic OS is still free, but they sell an office, multimedia, and gaming editions for about 10 Euro each or you get ultimate edition for 15 Euro. I have an issue paying them for software that is 100% open source software. Not going to happen, and I refuse to support that long term.

On to the OS though.

First off, the good:
As it uses an Ubuntu base, nearly everything works. Wifi, sound, hard drives, etc all working quite well. There is even 3d support for my Intel HD 3000. No support for Optimus though, at least not OOTB. This doesn't surprise me, it is just a thing to remember. You will have to force your dedicated card in the BIOS to make it work.
It is quite pretty, though often that takes away more than it gives the user. All 3d effects are enabled from the moment you are done installing it.
The fresh install software selection is decent enough, Chrome web browser, Libre Office, wine and Gimp are all included. Not much more of value though.
They made a very strong effort in cloning the Windows 7 interface.

Now the bad.
The 3d effects are pretty for about 30 seconds, then you quickly find that they went overboard and it gets tiresome. For example, the start menu "popping in" wastes my time, and looks tacky. There are much less invasive animations available for that menu that show much more class. The worst part here is that the tools to change the behavior are NOT included.
Screen brightness was set to '0' during install, and on the first boot. Not really an issue, just took a moment to figure out that Linux was overriding my choices with a useless setting.
Zorin needs a bit over 1 minute to boot. I understand I am using a slower harddrive. However, Windows 7 boots in about 30 seconds from it, and Windows 8 much less than that even. There is no excuse for a 1 minute boot time.

The Ugly.
So, within 30 minutes of me starting my system, Zorin decided it was time to update. Good news, right? Nope. There were 442 packages needing updated, and you have to babysit this idiot machine. First problem was Flash, which needed me to accept the license myself. No problem. Then comes the constant crashing. The upgrade application has creashed 3 times on me already, the latest one it doesn't even seem to notice has happened. I have been waiting over an hour for it to figure out it died. I have tried closing it manually, but unlike Mint, or Mepis, it won't even figure out that it isn't closing and give me the option to force close. This is a disgraceful oversight, as this means that Zorin is the only modern Linux distro I have used that requires I use a command line to terminate the application.
On this note, I would like to take time to mention that it isn't just the update software that is falling apart, the "Software Center" is as well. These are two applications that are very well polished, and extremely stable on other Ubuntu based distros. Why are than an issue here?
The Windows look-a-like contest is barely skin deep. They re-ordered the start menu, and tried to make it look like Windows. Then applied a Windows-like border. That was it. Once you open the control panel, file browser, etc, ,all similarities end. For those moving from Windows, these are the important parts to work on. The start menu anyone can figure out.
Worse still, the configuration options needed to fix many of the little flaws - are all missing. They include ways to change resolution, printers, and a few other little things, but nothing that could break the skin of the OS.
lastly, ADVERTISING. I have never, to date, seen advertising in my software center. As Zorin is based purely around money this should not surprise me. But when I entered the Software Center, I was greeted with advertising reminiscent of Steam. Of course, this was then backed up by dozens of YES-WE-WANT-YOUR-MONEY games in the database. Some as much as $25. This entire model goes against everything Linux stands for. Once you start advertising in the OS itself, you just kill your own viability as a platform.


Sorry guys, but pass on this one. From the instability to the hack jobs done to parts of the OS, to the missing configuration options, to the advertising, there is nothing here worth having. This is just an honest opinion from someone who already wasted too much time here. Next up will be Vector Linux. A distro based on Slackware that shows much more promise.

EDIT: Corrected pricing scheme.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 17 October 2012 - 10:06 AM

[brainout]

As usual, you don't analyze well. The paid version of Zorin doesn't have these problems, and you'd know that if you bothered to compare the paid versus the free version you installed. Moreover, it's a DEBIAN-based Linux, which you'd know if you read the Zorin forums. I've had very happy contact with them when I bought Zorin Ultimate, and confirmed it can be installed atop Debian, which I also purchased. Debian, unlike Ubuntu, offers more driver support.

10 Euros is peanuts. Really, you display an inability to analyze, so hung up on costs, yet such a Win8 fanboy. Paid products get better quality support, and are likely to be more stable.

All this I know without yet having to install, because I did my homework first, WITH ZORIN. You don't do yours. But pontificate anyway. That's why I usually have you on ignore.

So I'll be installing both Debian and then Zorin, knowing in advance what to expect. As for your comments on the Win7 interface, yeah it's superficial. The documentation discloses that. After I've decided on the configuration, I'm going to BUY a laptop built to spec from ZaReason, which specializes in Linux. And will gladly pay them for support.

I need Linux to last, so paying for it is proper. Only those who can't think their way out of a paper bag, are fooled by 'free'.

Reply as you like, I won't read what you say, anymore. Am only posting this because you praise or slander an OS, based on insufficient knowledge.

This post has been edited by brainout: 06 November 2012 - 07:20 AM

[smax013]

brainout, on 06 November 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

...The paid version of Zorin doesn't have these problems...

All this I know without yet having to install...

If I play devil's advocate, if you have not installed Zorin yet, how do you actually know that the paid version "doesn't have these problems"?

Yes, waldojim might be wrong on some stuff and may not have given Zorin enough of a chance (it seems he only used it for a very short period of time, but I could be wrong...but if not, then I will note that this is something that he has "called" people on when they complain about Windows 8 after only using it for a short period of time). But that does not mean that he did not have significant problems with it. Maybe the paid version deals with the specific problems that he had, but since you have not bothered to install it yourself you are only going off "heresay" from other people. And with that being the case, why does someone else's "heresay" have anymore standing that waldojim's "heresay"? It seems that answer to that is that you just don't like waldojim and thus dismiss ANY thing he says. I won't deny that he can be a bit "abrasive" at times, but he also does offer valuable information much of the time.

And since from everything that I gather you have yet to install a single Linux distro (I could be wrong), I believe he is likely way more knowledgeable about Linux than you right now as he has been installing and using Linux distros for quite a while.

So, while he might not have give Zorin enough of a chance, why do you feel the need to essentially personally attack him?

[waldojim]

brainout, on 06 November 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

<br />As usual, you don't analyze well.  The paid version of Zorin doesn't have these problems, and you'd know that if you bothered to compare the paid versus the free version you installed. 

You had better come up with something better than this. The paid version is just as described on their site - the same thing with more OPEN SOURCE software included.

Quote

 Moreover, it's a DEBIAN-based Linux, which you'd know if you read the Zorin forums.

What do you think Ubuntu is?
Secondly : "It is based on Ubuntu which is the most popular Linux operating system in the world" from the home page.

Quote

  I've had very happy contact with them when I bought Zorin Ultimate, and confirmed it can be installed atop Debian, which I also purchased.  Debian, unlike Ubuntu, offers more driver support.<br /><br />10 Euros is peanuts.  Really, you display an inability to analyze, so hung up on costs, yet such a Win8 fanboy.  Paid products get better quality support, and are likely to be more stable.<br /><br />All this I know without yet having to install, because I did my homework first, WITH ZORIN.  You don't do yours.  But pontificate anyway.  That's why I usually have you on ignore.<br /><br />So I'll be installing both Debian and then Zorin, knowing in advance what to expect.  As for your comments on the Win7 interface, yeah it's superficial.  The documentation discloses that.  After I've decided on the configuration, I'm going to BUY a laptop built to spec from ZaReason, which specializes in Linux.  And will gladly pay them for support.<br /><br />I need Linux to last, so paying for it is proper.  Only those who can't think their way out of a paper bag, are fooled by 'free'.<br /><br />Reply as you like, I won't read what you say, anymore.  Am only posting this because you praise or slander an OS, based on insufficient knowledge.<br />

now I am forced to ask... what DO you actually read? Because you don't read what you reply to, and you DIDN'T read the Zorin website. Or do you simply fall into the 70% of the US that cannot comprehend what is written?

[waldojim]

smax013, on 10 November 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

If I play devil's advocate, if you have not installed Zorin yet, how do you actually know that the paid version "doesn't have these problems"?

He doesn't. He also didn't bother reading what is on their site. This has to be either a troll, or the most retarded person I have ever met on the forums... I haven't decided yet.

Quote

Yes, waldojim might be wrong on some stuff and may not have given Zorin enough of a chance (it seems he only used it for a very short period of time, but I could be wrong...but if not, then I will note that this is something that he has "called" people on when they complain about Windows 8 after only using it for a short period of time). But that does not mean that he did not have significant problems with it. Maybe the paid version deals with the specific problems that he had, but since you have not bothered to install it yourself you are only going off "heresay" from other people. And with that being the case, why does someone else's "heresay" have anymore standing that waldojim's "heresay"? It seems that answer to that is that you just don't like waldojim and thus dismiss ANY thing he says. I won't deny that he can be a bit "abrasive" at times, but he also does offer valuable information much of the time.

And since from everything that I gather you have yet to install a single Linux distro (I could be wrong), I believe he is likely way more knowledgeable about Linux than you right now as he has been installing and using Linux distros for quite a while.

So, while he might not have give Zorin enough of a chance, why do you feel the need to essentially personally attack him?

Let us be fair a moment - how long would you keep an OS on your machine, if you had to change your video card settings in your BIOS every time you rebooted? I got into it long enough to figure out what it was - another Ubuntu clone. A company that basis their product on the backs of other hard working people. A company that wants to charge you money, for that which you can already get for free - because someone else already did the work for them. What I am calling Zorin out on - is simple - they are stealing the work they are selling. They are also offering something that doesn't exist: "The Look Changer lets you change your desktop to look and act like either Windows 7, XP, Vista, Ubuntu Unity, Mac OS X or GNOME 2 for ultimate ease of use." Which, I suppose does technically exist... but it takes about 30 seconds to find out that the Windows-like interface is barely skin deep. As this is a major selling point, having it not work defeats the purpose. Does it not?

He has made it an effort to personally attack me on every thread. Partially because he doesn't know anything. IE: Every time you see him claim his Atom is quicker than a quad core Xeon....

[brainout]

smax013, on 10 November 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

brainout, on 06 November 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

...The paid version of Zorin doesn't have these problems...

All this I know without yet having to install...

If I play devil's advocate, if you have not installed Zorin yet, how do you actually know that the paid version "doesn't have these problems"?

Yes, waldojim might be wrong on some stuff and may not have given Zorin enough of a chance (it seems he only used it for a very short period of time, but I could be wrong...but if not, then I will note that this is something that he has "called" people on when they complain about Windows 8 after only using it for a short period of time). But that does not mean that he did not have significant problems with it. Maybe the paid version deals with the specific problems that he had, but since you have not bothered to install it yourself you are only going off "heresay" from other people. And with that being the case, why does someone else's "heresay" have anymore standing that waldojim's "heresay"? It seems that answer to that is that you just don't like waldojim and thus dismiss ANY thing he says. I won't deny that he can be a bit "abrasive" at times, but he also does offer valuable information much of the time.

And since from everything that I gather you have yet to install a single Linux distro (I could be wrong), I believe he is likely way more knowledgeable about Linux than you right now as he has been installing and using Linux distros for quite a while.

So, while he might not have give Zorin enough of a chance, why do you feel the need to essentially personally attack him?

He's the one who attacked. That's how it's always been since the first day I got here, totally unwarranted. He made patently untrue statements re Linux Office (Libre or Open) back in August when I first arrived; and when I called him on it (since I had those programs on my machine, and documented what was wrong with them), he's been on the rampage ever since. Yeah, sometimes his statements are cogent, even helpful. But he guns my posts. He doesn't do his homework, doesn't even know I'm not a guy. He gunned me with this Zorin 6 thing, too, because I posted in favor of it.

So just ignore him with respect to me. That's what I'm doing, ignoring him. But here he slanders Zorin. So I had to say something. I did my homework with them prior to purchase. Think: if what he said were true, then Zorin wouldn't be so popular.

[smax013]

brainout, on 10 November 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

He's the one who attacked.

Sorry if this comment might offend you, but you sound like a little kid saying to his mommy "But he started it!"

Quote

But here he slanders Zorin.

And slander means you know he deliberately said something false about Zorin. Since you have yet to install it, how do you know that the problems that he outlined are deliberately false. And even if you had installed it and had no problems, how do you know that he did not still in fact have the problems that he outlined.

Rather, he is expressing his opinion about Zorin after actually using it. I am sure there are other people who disagree with his opinion, including you (who has yet to actually use it). In the end, if he really bothers you, then ignore him...including don't personally attack him.

[smax013]

waldojim, on 10 November 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Let us be fair a moment - how long would you keep an OS on your machine, if you had to change your video card settings in your BIOS every time you rebooted? I got into it long enough to figure out what it was - another Ubuntu clone. A company that basis their product on the backs of other hard working people. A company that wants to charge you money, for that which you can already get for free - because someone else already did the work for them. What I am calling Zorin out on - is simple - they are stealing the work they are selling. They are also offering something that doesn't exist: "The Look Changer lets you change your desktop to look and act like either Windows 7, XP, Vista, Ubuntu Unity, Mac OS X or GNOME 2 for ultimate ease of use." Which, I suppose does technically exist... but it takes about 30 seconds to find out that the Windows-like interface is barely skin deep. As this is a major selling point, having it not work defeats the purpose. Does it not?

I never said I necessary disagree with your decision to stop "playing" with it/using it. Rather I was pointing out that when others did the same thing with Windows 8 (albeit for what seems like much less "severe" problems), you "called them out" for not giving it enough time. Playing devil's advocate, maybe if you had "played with it" for a bit longer, maybe you would have found some solutions to the issues you encountered...I admit that this might not be too likely from your description, but we will never know. Ultimately, my point was that for some folks case the necessary changes to their work flow makes Windows 8 effectively just as bad as Zorin was for you even if they did not actually encounter any real serious "technical" problems with Windows 8 like you did with Zorin...yet you still come across as dismissive of their opinion because they did not both to keep trying Windows 8.

Quote

He has made it an effort to personally attack me on every thread. Partially because he doesn't know anything. IE: Every time you see him claim his Atom is quicker than a quad core Xeon....

Frankly, see the first part of my post to brainout. The same comment basically applies to you.

Of course, since I am not a moderator anymore, I don't have to deal with such silliness other than read it.

[waldojim]

brainout, on 10 November 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

So just ignore him with respect to me. That's what I'm doing, ignoring him. But here he slanders Zorin. So I had to say something. I did my homework with them prior to purchase. Think: if what he said were true, then Zorin wouldn't be so popular.

They are true, and it is not that popular.

[waldojim]

smax013, on 10 November 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

waldojim, on 10 November 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Let us be fair a moment - how long would you keep an OS on your machine, if you had to change your video card settings in your BIOS every time you rebooted? I got into it long enough to figure out what it was - another Ubuntu clone. A company that basis their product on the backs of other hard working people. A company that wants to charge you money, for that which you can already get for free - because someone else already did the work for them. What I am calling Zorin out on - is simple - they are stealing the work they are selling. They are also offering something that doesn't exist: "The Look Changer lets you change your desktop to look and act like either Windows 7, XP, Vista, Ubuntu Unity, Mac OS X or GNOME 2 for ultimate ease of use." Which, I suppose does technically exist... but it takes about 30 seconds to find out that the Windows-like interface is barely skin deep. As this is a major selling point, having it not work defeats the purpose. Does it not?

I never said I necessary disagree with your decision to stop "playing" with it/using it. Rather I was pointing out that when others did the same thing with Windows 8 (albeit for what seems like much less "severe" problems), you "called them out" for not giving it enough time. Playing devil's advocate, maybe if you had "played with it" for a bit longer, maybe you would have found some solutions to the issues you encountered...I admit that this might not be too likely from your description, but we will never know. Ultimately, my point was that for some folks case the necessary changes to their work flow makes Windows 8 effectively just as bad as Zorin was for you even if they did not actually encounter any real serious "technical" problems with Windows 8 like you did with Zorin...yet you still come across as dismissive of their opinion because they did not both to keep trying Windows 8.

Quote

He has made it an effort to personally attack me on every thread. Partially because he doesn't know anything. IE: Every time you see him claim his Atom is quicker than a quad core Xeon....

Frankly, see the first part of my post to brainout. The same comment basically applies to you.

Of course, since I am not a moderator anymore, I don't have to deal with such silliness other than read it.

The problems with certain hardware are very well documented... solutions, not so much. Linux has never liked Optimus, that is a fact I have tried to live with for quite some time. I also ended up re-installing Zorin more than once trying to get the Intel card working correctly. Ultimatly, I was forced to limit the machine to dedicated video only in the BIOS, which won't retain that setting. It automatically reverts the moment I reboot (incorrectly thinking that Linux supports it!). So, while I would have certainly liked to spend more time with it, I decided I was better off trying something else for a while.

Linux Mint for example, is smart enough to figure out that once I set the Nvidia card for use - LEAVE IT ALONE. Something that Zorin would not do. They both use the exact same Ubuntu core. They both have the same basic package included. But the Mint team understands that sometimes a compromise between auto-detect and "this configuration works" is needed. This is a very clear difference between them - that people need to understand. This is also why I posted this quick and dirty review.

The issues I have with Zorin are not workflow related. Since when is a series of hidden configuration options missing a workflow issue? If Windows had removed screen resolution options, and made it command line only, and only if you edit c:\Windows\system32\wx32disp.vxd (or something similar), don't you think there would be a legitimate out-cry? This isn't what happened in Windows, but is exactly what happened in Zorin. Not specifically the screen resolution, but other necessary options. All for the sake of making it "look like Windows". The worst part, is that the "Windows look" only gets you through 1/4 of the software (or less).

The last major issue I still have with Zorin is this:

Quote

Become a multimedia champion with Zorin OS 6 Multimedia. The package includes 40 of the best multimedia tools for media creation, editing and viewing. Create 3D models in the award winning Blender, edit videos with Kdenlive and OpenShot, modify images with the popular GIMP image editor, create new music with Linux Multimedia Studio and a whole lot more. Our premium software plus all of the original programs from Zorin OS 6 Core are also included in the package.

That right there is 13 euro.
You get: GIMP - OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE
KDENLIVE - OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE
Blender - OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE
OpenShot - OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE
and countless other titles they don't even want to admit to.

There is also the "gaming edition":

Quote

Get the ultimate gaming experience right on your Zorin OS machine. Zorin OS 6 Gaming includes over 40 brilliant games including the Nexuiz shooting game, the Trigger Rally and Super Tux Kart racing games, Frets on Fire, the Neverputt mini golf game, Neverball, 3D chess, Warmux, and many others. Our premium software plus all of the original programs from Zorin OS 6 Core are also included in the package. It's your one stop shop for entertainment!

Once more - all open source titles.

So what we have here, is a direct Ubuntu clone. They are charging you for the very software that is available on the Ubuntu repositories for free. Who is this money going to? Certainly not the people writing the software. The most irritating part of it all is this; when you land on that page, they don't even admit they are selling it. You don't have a choice but to pay, but they include the "donate" button to try and make it legal under the GPL. Donate 7 Euro so that you can download Ubuntu from them, and call it Zorin.

[brainout]

I checked everything directly with Zorin in email and in forums before I purchased it.  I don't HAVE to install it to know what to expect.  Waldojim installed the FREE version, not the paid version, and if you look at the Zorin site, they WARN about the difference.  

So waldojim did NOT do his homework, and is MISrepresenting the situation, so since he COULD have done his homework instead, one has to assume mal intent.  Which he shows, since he's like a baby, ticked off over 10 Euros.  Sheesh.  

You can read my forum posts in Zorin if you doubt that I did my homework.  By contrast, waldojim just spouts off stuff he doesn't know anything about, sometimes.  He doesn't know anything about DOS usage in the world, doesn't know anything about what Linux Office product family can and cannot do, doesn't understand the foibles of Win7 installation and backwards-compatibility problems, even in 32-bit. But IT people who have to do those conversions from XP, do know, and they comment in this forum and elsewhere on the internet. But ol' jimmy boy is just sure HE alone is right. Fine. So, he's on my ignore list.

Here, he's slandering Zorin, because what he's saying is not true.  He's peeved that they charge a measly 10 Euros, for crying out loud.  Slander is when you say something without checking the facts because you WANT to badmouth the object.  I should have said 'libel' because it's in writing, but 'libel' implies premeditation, and that's not true here.

So make of it what you want.  If someone slandered you, I'd make the same kind of reply.  When waldojim in a public forum proves he doesn't do his homework sometimes, and goes off half-cocked, he should be called on it.

This post has been edited by brainout: 10 November 2012 - 09:54 PM

[LiveBrianD]

Charging for free software... maybe I'm alone in this, but I DO have a problem with that.

[brainout]

LiveBrianD, on 10 November 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

Charging for free software... maybe I'm alone in this, but I DO have a problem with that.

When you finally start working for a living, you'll appreciate paying for it. The LABOR involved in putting the package together, is worth 10x the 10 Euros paid. Once I get my machines configured so I can do the dual-boot setups, I'll donate what that software is worth.

You get what you pay for, and what waldojim got, is NOT the same as what I downloaded for two hours from France. What I got, was Zorin ULTIMATE. So if anything, I should have paid the five extra Euros to get the CD shipped to me. And I will, for my second copy. Free almost always means nearly worthless.

Debian is the parent, and other than RedHat, is the most fully-featured Linux distro. So I got it. Ubuntu is an offshoot, much weaker in terms of applications and settings. Zorin is a mix of the two, and can be installed over Debian, which is how I'm going to do it.

Look: I know there are a lot of trolls in this and other forums, but I'm not one of them. I came here to learn and make purchasing decisions so to serve my customers better. I'm pretty much done on that, except for annotating the results of Win7 and Vista installations. My arm is nearly healed, so soon I can STOP posting in here and dealing with trolls -- you're no troll, though -- who seem to need a testosterone adjustment.

This post has been edited by brainout: 10 November 2012 - 10:06 PM

[LiveBrianD]

You do realize it's VERY easy to download the software yourself, right? (maybe using the Ubuntu Software Center) I'm not paying for nothing.

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 10 November 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

Charging for free software... maybe I'm alone in this, but I DO have a problem with that.

That is exactly where I am at.

[waldojim]

brainout, on 10 November 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

When you finally start working for a living, you'll appreciate paying for it. The LABOR involved in putting the package together, is worth 10x the 10 Euros paid. Once I get my machines configured so I can do the dual-boot setups, I'll donate what that software is worth.

Except that the people writing the software aren't getting paid in this case.

[waldojim]

brainout, on 10 November 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

Look: I know there are a lot of trolls in this and other forums, but I'm not one of them. I came here to learn and make purchasing decisions so to serve my customers better. I'm pretty much done on that, except for annotating the results of Win7 and Vista installations. My arm is nearly healed, so soon I can STOP posting in here and dealing with trolls -- you're no troll, though -- who seem to need a testosterone adjustment.

You obviously aren't. Because I have been trying to give you the appropriate information, with pretty pictures and links as needed. You need a 3d map to figure out your head is still attached. I am sorry that you don't believe your own eyes. Not my problem.

Had you known how to read, you could clearly read that Zorin is based on Ubuntu. It is spelled out clear as day on their homepage.

If you can't even grasp the BASIC FACTS from their own site, I think it is easy to spot the troll. At first, I assumed you were simply unwilling to learn. Now you made it clear that you want to spread dis-information across the forums. I can only hope you find yourself banned.

[waldojim]

brainout, on 10 November 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

I checked everything directly with Zorin in email and in forums before I purchased it.  I don't HAVE to install it to know what to expect.  Waldojim installed the FREE version, not the paid version, and if you look at the Zorin site, they WARN about the difference.  

So waldojim did NOT do his homework, and is MISrepresenting the situation, so since he COULD have done his homework instead, one has to assume mal intent.  Which he shows, since he's like a baby, ticked off over 10 Euros.  Sheesh.  

You can read my forum posts in Zorin if you doubt that I did my homework.  By contrast, waldojim just spouts off stuff he doesn't know anything about, sometimes.  He doesn't know anything about DOS usage in the world, doesn't know anything about what Linux Office product family can and cannot do, doesn't understand the foibles of Win7 installation and backwards-compatibility problems, even in 32-bit. But IT people who have to do those conversions from XP, do know, and they comment in this forum and elsewhere on the internet. But ol' jimmy boy is just sure HE alone is right. Fine. So, he's on my ignore list.

Here, he's slandering Zorin, because what he's saying is not true.  He's peeved that they charge a measly 10 Euros, for crying out loud.  Slander is when you say something without checking the facts because you WANT to badmouth the object.  I should have said 'libel' because it's in writing, but 'libel' implies premeditation, and that's not true here.

So make of it what you want.  If someone slandered you, I'd make the same kind of reply.  When waldojim in a public forum proves he doesn't do his homework sometimes, and goes off half-cocked, he should be called on it.

You know what, at this point, I think I will simply report every one of your posts as attacks. It should take... what about 3 hours before you are banned?

And slander involves misrepresentation. The only misrepresentation is on the part of Zorin.

EDIT: Actually, I could also quite easily claim the same of you now that I think about it. Since you are actually taking time to attack me with said slanderous claims.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 11 November 2012 - 12:20 AM

[brainout]

LiveBrianD, on 10 November 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

You do realize it's VERY easy to download the software yourself, right? (maybe using the Ubuntu Software Center) I'm not paying for nothing.

I don't know if you meant to respond to me, Brian. But if you did, yeah, I know about Ubuntu and will be separately trying it on one of my machines. I did a spreadsheet of Linux distros, and there are 152 of them, some now no longer offered; some I will try, some I will belay.

Ubuntu charges $105 per machine per year for support. You need support, in a business. And that's where they make their money. Don't be bamboozled by 'free'. That's always used to get money. And it's right to get money, if you make a good product or service. I make a minimum of $1,000 per year per client for my services, and they are happy to pay for those services, because I'm so much lower and better than the rest of the market, in my niche field. It would cost them more to do it themselves, or to hire someone else.

So you see, I too am 'free' in the differential for what I charge for my services (since I have lower overhead due to computerization). So I offer 'free' consultation services to accountants planning year-end deductions, which is faster and better than they can get elsewhere, so I'm told. Other firms charge $600 for that service. I don't need to do that, because the same self-developed software I use for consultation, creates the actual valuation result, so is just my normal fee work, done a bit in advance.

So it doesn't cost me more than the mere telephone time, which is a marketing opportunity for me. So it's NOT 'free', but a cost of advertising, so to speak. The telephone-time cost, is already built into my regular annual fee. The only way I lose, is if I don't get the client. That rarely happens.

Ergo: I have to not only deploy my own machines, but must configure them for later takeover; the meanwhile, I need to figure out how to bring my anti-PC colleagues and clients, into the 21st century. All of us are over age 55, and even when we retire we'll need to keep contact with those who buy us out. So two of my colleagues are retiring, and I am to take over their firms. So I'm trying to get them to become computer-savvy, even if that means they learn a tablet. I'm sick of paper, and can't begin to run 600 clients on my own using paper.

A well-configured computer is a lifesaver. When I sprained my arm last week of September, I was still able to do over 100 tax returns with one hand. Could never have done that, on paper. So that little experiment helps prove to them the importance of computerizing. But the dysfunctionalities in the OS make it really hard to TEACH. So I've got to find the most useful and intuitive way to get this done. Which means, dual- or triple-boot with Linux in some flavor.

It's a common problem in small business, that when an owner retires, he has to stay somewhat involved. Often that's not desirable or possible, but here it's essential.

This post has been edited by brainout: 12 November 2012 - 04:16 AM

[brainout]

Waldojim, for what it's worth, since you can't post to the Zorin Forum, I just posted for you (click here). Hopefully someone will come visit here in PC World and help you with the problems you face.

I realize you have a lot of knowledge in your niche areas. Sometimes, though, it's important to get contradictory feedback when you are outside your niche. You were helpful to me on the question of IDE versus SATA versus RAID, and I want to return that kindness.

Thank you.