[snorg]

Well, its not an issue for me, win7 and win8 dont have what I need, so I have to stick with XP.

[brainout]

Tech Republic article showing that most IT departments won't deploy Win8. http://www.techrepub...e101&s_cid=e101

Sorry, the editor is buggy again, the hyperlink function won't work at the moment.

[LiveBrianD]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if most of them skip it - many just finished upgrading to 7 (if they've even done that - I know plenty of companies that still have XP on a lot of machines), and what's the benefit? You need to retrain employees a bit, and it doesn't work any better. (it <i>might</i> be useful on x86 tablets though...)

Plus, DellInsp531 was mentioning that plenty of people are returning machines for Windows 8, which is what I was expecting, for the most part. It looks like this one'll be a flop. (at least you can still get Windows 7)

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 09 November 2012 - 09:04 AM

[Dellinsp531]

There were several that has a problem with Vista. Most accepted Windows 7. Now almost everyone is rejecting Winodws 8.

Well most people want Windows XP and remove windows 8 but it is not being sold any more. I was able to get them to get Windows 7. For those I could not, I told them what they could do if they want to have Windows Xp. As the saying goes, the customer is always right. MS never seems to understand that.

Most of the my big clients still have Windows XP. Some have Windows 2000, Windows NT or Windows 98.

I have two clients that want me to get a work around since some websites like MS or google do not want to work with Internet 6.0 in Windows XP.

[A41202813]

@Dellinsp531

Are They Forced To Work With IE6, Or Can They Work With IE7 Or IE8 ?

[brainout]

Dellinsp531, on 09 November 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

There were several that has a problem with Vista. Most accepted Windows 7. Now almost everyone is rejecting Windows 8.

Well most people want Windows XP and remove windows 8 but it is not being sold any more. I was able to get them to get Windows 7. For those I could not, I told them what they could do if they want to have Windows Xp. As the saying goes, the customer is always right. MS never seems to understand that.

Most of the my big clients still have Windows XP. Some have Windows 2000, Windows NT or Windows 98.

I have two clients that want me to get a work around since some websites like MS or google do not want to work with Internet 6.0 in Windows XP.

As true for others in the financial sector, I'm in the staying-on-XP group, but am on IE8, because though on XP one can upgrade that far. I hate IE, prefer Mozilla (or Chrome for cookie-handling).

You or the client can still buy new unopened retail full XP Pro (not upgrade, not OEM) at Amazon. The going rate is around $300. But occasionally one can find it cheaper. It includes SP2, and you can still buy the SP3 CD from MS directly.

Then there is the issue of dual-booting in Linux.

This post has been edited by brainout: 09 November 2012 - 06:13 PM

[A41202813]

@brainout

You Do Not Need To Buy XP SP3 From Anyone.

You Can Download It From The M$ Site Directly.

http://www.microsoft...ails.aspx?id=24

Cheers.

[LiveBrianD]

Nope, that's just the SP3 update, not the actual OS.

Supported operating systems: Windows XP Home Edition , Windows XP Professional Edition, Windows XP Service Pack 1, Windows XP Service Pack 2

[Szczecinianin]

It seems Microsoft is not sure of its position on the tablet market if it imposes a typically tablet Metro GUI on desktop/notebook users too. Butt doesn't get to like a stick and that's all. Also MS proves that its main objective is to profit at ANY cost but this time it's in for some disappointment.

[snorg]

M$ should have made a separate OS for desktop/laptop, and a separate OS for tablet instead of lumping them both together in win8.
BUT you see this type of thing in lots of software, the newer version is not as good as the older version and the features you really liked about it are gone. Thats how it is in this "less is more" world.

[brainout]

snorg, on 10 November 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

M$ should have made a separate OS for desktop/laptop, and a separate OS for tablet instead of lumping them both together in win8.
BUT you see this type of thing in lots of software, the newer version is not as good as the older version and the features you really liked about it are gone. Thats how it is in this "less is more" world.

Yeah, tell me about it. I am now going through the horror of setting up my Win7 Pro (32-bit) machine. WHAT A PIECE OF JUNK is Windows 7 Pro. No up button, if you drag a window it maximizes instead, the stupid window has too much white space even in details, it's a nightmare to navigate -- even though, it superficially looks like XP most of the time. But then, I didn't like XP either, had extensively customized it to look more like Win98 with dual taskbars at top and bottom. But you can't HAVE a top taskbar in Win7.

When I install TuneUp Utilities I'll be able to override the Win7 navigation to match XP, get rid of Aero; but until I can do that, nightmare. Same stupid ribbon thing as Word 2007.

Yeah, like any Win OS it's real fast in the beginning, until registry creep accumulates.

And don't even get me started on Firefox 16, which I just had to download for this machine. ORANGE AND BLACK AND BLUE ????? What happened to the ability to zoom TEXT ONLY? Just because MS is so insane they don't offer that until Win8, doesn't mean Mozilla should take that feature of TEXT ONLY ZOOM away, now that Win8 is launched...

I'll never use this machine for real computing. At least I got Thunderbird to install, in case all my other machines blow up and I still need to get email.

What, do programmers go to a terrorist school to devise ways to frustrate the user via upgrades that are really downgrades? What, are they drugged, that they keep CHANGING the interface to waste our time and make us restructure each time?

And as you said, they always take away what was good in the prior versions. I delayed even upgrading my beloved BibleWorks for three versions due to interface changes. I made something like 500+ videos using that program, can't live without it. But those people finally listened to the users, and now the interface stays stable in version 9. And the other good news, the license is per user, not per machine. So I could put 22 copies of the version 9 I just bought on my machine, since I'm the only computer user. That stabilizes operation. Oh: and it works on Win8, Mac, Linux too. That's the proper way to design a program.

But the other vendors of software? NIGHTMARE, including Firefox.

So yeah, MS changes are the pits, but they aren't the only guilty party. THIS IS WHY PEOPLE AREN'T BUYING NEW PCs, dummies! THINK about the USER when you make your changes, if you want to stay in business!

This post has been edited by brainout: 10 November 2012 - 07:03 AM

[snorg]

brainout, on 10 November 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

Yeah, tell me about it..............

Ya, I got XP set to look like 98 too.

Is there a "settings > task bar and start menu" so you could set it on "windows classic" to make using that thing like real PC??

brainout, on 10 November 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

Yeah, like any Win OS it's real fast in the beginning, until registry creep accumulates.

Ya, like, the "average user" buys a new PC and sez "Wow this new windoze is so much faster"............

brainout, on 10 November 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

And don't even get me started on Firefox 16, ........

Yup, yup, "less is more" the motto for the 21st century.
Thanks for telling me, Ill stick with the firefox I got, it was hard enuff to iron out. Ill stay away from FX16 I had a feeling it would be a POS.

I figure they dont want people buying PC's cuz they are afraid they mite learn something, no they want to keep us dumbed down with console games, with out ear glued to a smart phone and walking into sign posts while we text.

This post has been edited by snorg: 10 November 2012 - 07:51 AM

[brainout]

snorg, on 10 November 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

Is there a task bar and start menu so you could set it on windows classic to make using that thing like real PC??

Yes, there is: http://www.sevenforu...s-xp-style.html has the answer. He thinks it looks like XP, but to us it looks like Win98. Menu is still that horrid double-column as was XP, but I'm sure there's a way around that, too.

Setting up the taskbar is the key, and is really a pistol to do. Took me about an hour. You only get one taskbar now (I'm used to making two, top-and-bottom, so I won't have to use the Start Menu).

My Desktop
MyDesktopMenuandIcons

This post has been edited by brainout: 10 November 2012 - 06:52 PM

[brainout]

A41202813, on 09 November 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

@brainout

You Do Not Need To Buy XP SP3 From Anyone.

You Can Download It From The M$ Site Directly.

http://www.microsoft...ails.aspx?id=24

Cheers.

Beloved, I did buy SP3 from MS, costs $8 including shipping the CD. You have to have the CD, not good enough to have the download; the download won't run without a CD, I already tried that. It's just the service pack. I already have two still-unopened RETAIL full XP Pro including SP2. They are my insurance.

This post has been edited by brainout: 10 November 2012 - 07:55 PM

[A41202813]

@brainout

Sorry, I Thought You Were Referring To The 'XP SP3' Not The 'XP+SP3'.

Cheers.

[MTBSoftware]

waldojim, on 29 October 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

TechnoBill, on 29 October 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

I understand your point about not thinking that I gave it enough time to get adjusted but I disagree.

From my point-of-view I don't see the need to "adjust a bit to Windows 8" currently. It is a tablet interface thrust upon a desktop user. It doesn't work well for keyboard and mouse users in my opinion. I'm not saying it doesn't work. I am saying that it doesn't work well.

Rather than adjust to Windows 8 I am going to just continue to use what has a good keyboard/mouse interface, is still supported by Microsoft for some time to come, and has a large enough user base that it will not be abandoned by manufacturers or programmers.

Windows 7 is better than Windows 8 on PCs. It just is. Sure, the underlying Windows 8 OS might have numerous improvements that make it superior from hard drive management all the way down to its kernel but it has an interface that is more than nondesirable by me. I don't want to relearn how to use a computer. I'm not saying that from an old fogey's point of view either. I am neither old nor a fogey. If it would make my computer usage "better" (and yes I know that is an individualized claim) or "faster" I would be willing to relearn. But unfortunately, for me, it doesn't make anything easier or more streamlined. It simply puts a new interface on top of the old one and strips away any of the benefits of having a powerful machine. (i.e. one app at a time via the new Metro Start screen.) My PC can multitask perfectly well. Why do I need to have that ease of use stripped away by the interface's default design? A design that is not intended to be altered unless by 3rd party work-arounds.

All in all I think Windows 8 has improved underpinnings but is severely hampered by its required Metro interface layered over the top of the desktop interface. I will not switch until I absolutely must or they create the option to disable the Metro interface and use the OS with multiple programs running on the same screen in WINDOWS and not full screen "apps".

Part of why people give up too quickly, is that they take too much time focusing on Metro as a desktop interface. Don't. You lost a hierarchical start menu, and gained a flat, easily organized one. Your new start menu allows for a few tasks to be done without leaving it - like email, or music. But generally, on the desktop, it is best to keep moving with the applications you know and love.

Windows 8 is a down right superior OS. But you won't actually understand how unless it is given a proper chance. I am sorry, but installing it for a day or two - is NOT taking any time with it.

I'm calling BS cheer leading here.
There is nothing superior about Win 8. Absolutely Nothing.

It is poorly designed.
It is not doing something differently because there is a better way.
It is simply doing something differently for the sake of doing it differently.

When you actually INCREASE the amount of user interaction required to do something, your user interface is a failure.
Microsoft tried to copy Apple and one up them and failed miserably at both.
Win 8 would have been far better if it was an incremental progression from Win 7.

Steven Sinofsky was ousted for a reason.
http://www.zdnet.com...ins-7000007344/
The Surface RT is already a failure and there is already buzz that the Surface Pro will NOT even be released (in its curent form)

This post has been edited by MTBSoftware: 13 November 2012 - 02:02 PM

[LiveBrianD]

You hit the nail on the head.

[doslover]

I just bought a new iPad mini, so I can learn the inevitable switch to tablet usage and touchscreen interfaces. Of course when the time comes to buy a new desktop or laptop or notebook, I'm switching to a Mac, because I've had it with M$ and their bloated, complicated and problematic OS and applications. I've already switched from IE9 to Google Chrome on my Win 7 laptop.

[smax013]

MTBSoftware, on 13 November 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

There is nothing superior about Win 8.

For you.

Don't get me wrong, my impression with minimal use of Windows 8 is that I don't like it. I rather hate the "Modern UI" (what was the "Metro UI".

But, I also have not used it much and I fully recognize that I when I get around to installing the retail version that I bought and use it more, that might change. And I certainly recognize that it is very possible that some people might find it to be a superior OS FOR THEM.

I say this coming from the perspective of someone who has used Macs for about two decades (as well as Windows computers) and seeing countless times where Windows users pontificate about how there is nothing superior about the Mac OS compared to Windows.

[MTBSoftware]

smax013, on 13 November 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

MTBSoftware, on 13 November 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

There is nothing superior about Win 8.

For you.

Don't get me wrong, my impression with minimal use of Windows 8 is that I don't like it. I rather hate the "Modern UI" (what was the "Metro UI".

But, I also have not used it much and I fully recognize that I when I get around to installing the retail version that I bought and use it more, that might change. And I certainly recognize that it is very possible that some people might find it to be a superior OS FOR THEM.

I say this coming from the perspective of someone who has used Macs for about two decades (as well as Windows computers) and seeing countless times where Windows users pontificate about how there is nothing superior about the Mac OS compared to Windows.

You're wrong.
I'm a Windows developer and I can say unequivocally that there is NOTHING superior about Win 8/RT.
It is a solution in search of a problem.

The market has already spoken about Win 8 and the verdict is in - "Epic Fail".