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I Abandoned Windows 8 Already I couldn't handle Win8's navigation requirements.

#41 User is offline   smax013 

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:59 AM

View PostMTBSoftware, on 14 November 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

You're wrong.
I'm a Windows developer and I can say unequivocally that there is NOTHING superior about Win 8/RT.
It is a solution in search of a problem.

The market has already spoken about Win 8 and the verdict is in - "Epic Fail".


I am sorry. I did not realize that everyone in the world is a clone of you and thinks/works just like you do. My mistake.

I can think of one thing that is superior than previous versions of Windows...the "refresh" function. Sure beats having to re-install Windows and EVERY SINGLE program.
Good riddance PCWorld.
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#42 User is offline   MTBSoftware 

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:20 AM

View Postsmax013, on 14 November 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

View PostMTBSoftware, on 14 November 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

You're wrong.
I'm a Windows developer and I can say unequivocally that there is NOTHING superior about Win 8/RT.
It is a solution in search of a problem.

The market has already spoken about Win 8 and the verdict is in - "Epic Fail".


I am sorry. I did not realize that everyone in the world is a clone of you and thinks/works just like you do. My mistake.

I can think of one thing that is superior than previous versions of Windows...the "refresh" function. Sure beats having to re-install Windows and EVERY SINGLE program.



Please, stop acting like a baby.

The re-imaging function is NOT an integral Win 8 OS function.
It's an add-on app.
There are already 3rd party re-imaging apps that work just fine. ;)
It is patently ridiculous to consider it a "superior feature" anyone would use in the normal course of operation with a Win 8 PC.
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#43 User is offline   Dellinsp531 

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:55 PM

View PostA41202813, on 09 November 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

@Dellinsp531

Are They Forced To Work With IE6, Or Can They Work With IE7 Or IE8 ?


They are forced to work with IE6. There is group policies that block install any other browsers, (Firefox, Chrome, IE7, IE8 etc....). The policy even picks up the Photoshop plugin that uses browsers DLL. It has to be change to allow the users to use Photoshop.

Most of their internal software only works with IE 6 or earlier. It does not work with newer browsers.

View Postbrainout, on 09 November 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

As true for others in the financial sector, I'm in the staying-on-XP group, but am on IE8, because though on XP one can upgrade that far. I hate IE, prefer Mozilla (or Chrome for cookie-handling).

You or the client can still buy new unopened retail full XP Pro (not upgrade, not OEM) at Amazon. The going rate is around $300. But occasionally one can find it cheaper. It includes SP2, and you can still buy the SP3 CD from MS directly.

Then there is the issue of dual-booting in Linux.


I have several copies still but I am keeping them until a client real real wants them and pays for it. Or if they are a good client in the past than I might sell it to them. Other than that, I will keep a few copies around just in case some real demand comes for it.

This post has been edited by Dellinsp531: 14 November 2012 - 12:57 PM

"Windows 8 had the most vulnerabilities, at 156, but.... "
vulnerabilites rose in 2013, security firm finds

Windows 8 is a useless OS that Microsoft released that has many flaws and bugs. DO NOT USE IT. Use Windows XP or Windows 7.
Downgrading from Windows 8 to 7: What you need to know

German Agency Warns Windows 8 Pcs Vulnerable To Cyberthreats

Former Microsoft privacy adviser: 'I don't trust Microsoft now'



Other laptops that I had in the past:


(Why were my sign removed? Please let me know.)
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#44 User is offline   waldojim 

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 08:51 PM

View PostMTBSoftware, on 13 November 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:


I'm calling BS cheer leading here.
There is nothing superior about Win 8. Absolutely Nothing.

It is poorly designed.
It is not doing something differently because there is a better way.
It is simply doing something differently for the sake of doing it differently.

When you actually INCREASE the amount of user interaction required to do something, your user interface is a failure.
Microsoft tried to copy Apple and one up them and failed miserably at both.
Win 8 would have been far better if it was an incremental progression from Win 7.

Steven Sinofsky was ousted for a reason.
http://www.zdnet.com...ins-7000007344/
The Surface RT is already a failure and there is already buzz that the Surface Pro will NOT even be released (in its curent form)

You would be wrong. It is superior in many ways. Though, judging by the troll attitude taken here, it won't do any good to post the reasoning.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -- Isaac Asimov

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#45 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:06 PM

That is strictly your opinion. Sure, the kernel is superior, no doubt, but unless they knock off the metro garbage, I am not upgrading. For one thing, notice how none of the devices I own are limited to an app store that company runs? (Galaxy Nexus, 2 Windows 7 machines) That being the case with metro is definitely a reason for me to avoid it. Not to mention how that doesn't even fit a desktop environment well. (they could've just let people disable it, and they would've gotten plenty more sales - but that's far too logical, isn't it?) So far, reception doesn't look very positive, though it'll probably take a few months to get a verdict. (it wasn't very hard for me to predict what would happen)
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#46 User is offline   brainout 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 04:18 AM

View PostDellinsp531, on 14 November 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

View Postbrainout, on 09 November 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

As true for others in the financial sector, I'm in the staying-on-XP group, but am on IE8, because though on XP one can upgrade that far. I hate IE, prefer Mozilla (or Chrome for cookie-handling).

You or the client can still buy new unopened retail full XP Pro (not upgrade, not OEM) at Amazon. The going rate is around $300. But occasionally one can find it cheaper. It includes SP2, and you can still buy the SP3 CD from MS directly.

Then there is the issue of dual-booting in Linux.


I have several copies still but I am keeping them until a client real real wants them and pays for it. Or if they are a good client in the past than I might sell it to them. Other than that, I will keep a few copies around just in case some real demand comes for it.

Understood. I just bought two more XP Pro from DigiConcepts in Amazon. They have only 8 System Builder XP Pro left, at $125, so you might want to know that. Everyone else is selling retail or OEM or System Builder for more money. Some selling OEM or System Builder for far less, which makes me suspicious. One of the XP Pro allegedly-retail packages I had bought clearly was marked NOT FOR RESALE on the package; so when I got it, I returned it unopened. It was part of an Enterprise purchase, with an Employee # clearly marked on the package.

So now I've got two XP Pro retail factory sealed and will be getting 2 more System Builder, all from DigiConcepts, the latter two ordered just last night. They are great at responding to emails and queries.

This post has been edited by brainout: 15 November 2012 - 04:19 AM

Willfully Insane Now Dangerous Or Wildly Stupid. :)
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#47 User is offline   waldojim 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:07 AM

View PostLiveBrianD, on 14 November 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

That is strictly your opinion. Sure, the kernel is superior, no doubt, but unless they knock off the metro garbage, I am not upgrading. For one thing, notice how none of the devices I own are limited to an app store that company runs? (Galaxy Nexus, 2 Windows 7 machines) That being the case with metro is definitely a reason for me to avoid it. Not to mention how that doesn't even fit a desktop environment well. (they could've just let people disable it, and they would've gotten plenty more sales - but that's far too logical, isn't it?) So far, reception doesn't look very positive, though it'll probably take a few months to get a verdict. (it wasn't very hard for me to predict what would happen)

Well, you certainly have no shortage of opinions. No matter the topic.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but there are many ways Windows 8 is superior. The kernel was obvious, but there are others. Windows Media Center has vast improvements regarding tuner compatibility. Storage spaces make for quick and easy drive pooling. As Smax mentioned, Windows has Refresh as an option now in place of reinstall. And many others.

But of course, you will remain hung up on Metro, because that is what you do.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -- Isaac Asimov

Steam Machine: MSI 970A-G46, AMD Phenom 955 @ 4.0Ghz, 8GB Gskill ram @1600mhz, 128GB Plextor M5s, EVGA GTX 550Ti
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#48 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 09:05 AM

Quite simply, I refuse to put up with garbage shoved in my face. Also, I'm worried that they might eventually try to get rid of the desktop entirely, so that everything has to come from the store. (OK, maybe that's a bit of a conspiracy theory.) Quite simply, poor sales are the only way to teach them. And so far, it looks like that's what they're getting.

How often do you reinstall the OS? I'll easily take a better interface over a feature I use once a year or so (if I trust that to do a completely clean install, that is). I, and most others, don't use MCE, so I don't care about it. You may as well argue that an electric car is better than a gasoline one. Sure, they're better for those few times you need to go a long distance, and they cost more upfront, but the rest of the time, there's really no advantage.

I showed Windows 8 to a few guys on my laptop a few days ago... and let's put it this way - there are now a few more people who have decided they will not be switching to Windows 8. (I didn't say anything about my opinions there.) As I keep saying, good OSes sell themselves, and bad ones don't sell no matter what you do. This is exactly what Microsoft is now finding out.
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#49 User is offline   smax013 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:45 AM

View PostLiveBrianD, on 15 November 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

Quite simply, I refuse to put up with garbage shoved in my face. Also, I'm worried that they might eventually try to get rid of the desktop entirely, so that everything has to come from the store. (OK, maybe that's a bit of a conspiracy theory.) Quite simply, poor sales are the only way to teach them. And so far, it looks like that's what they're getting.

How often do you reinstall the OS? I'll easily take a better interface over a feature I use once a year or so (if I trust that to do a completely clean install, that is). I, and most others, don't use MCE, so I don't care about it. You may as well argue that an electric car is better than a gasoline one. Sure, they're better for those few times you need to go a long distance, and they cost more upfront, but the rest of the time, there's really no advantage.

I showed Windows 8 to a few guys on my laptop a few days ago... and let's put it this way - there are now a few more people who have decided they will not be switching to Windows 8. (I didn't say anything about my opinions there.) As I keep saying, good OSes sell themselves, and bad ones don't sell no matter what you do. This is exactly what Microsoft is now finding out.


You are confusing "better" with "more successful" with whether or not there are improvements.

With regards to "more successful", we really won't know for a while. My opinion is that it will almost certainly be less successful than Windows 7, if for no other reason than many "enterprise" clients won't adopt Windows 8 anytime soon, if not ever. I don't know if it will reach the poor success of Vista (or worse), but it might.

With regards to "better", that is entirely a subject thing that is purely a function of personal opinion. Some people believe it is better than Windows 8, others don't. At the moment, it appears there are more of the latter than the former, but only time will tell if that is really the case or not.

With regards to whether there are improvements, I would argue there is little doubt that there are improvements in Windows 8 compared to Windows 7. Will everyone benefit from those improvements? Probably not. In the same vein, not everyone benefited from the improvements going from Windows XP to Windows 7. Did that make Windows 7 a "failure"? Nope. If you look at Vista, there were definitely improvement in Vista compared to XP, but Microsoft botched enough other stuff with Vista that it basically boomed.

The point is that I believe it is fairly clear that Windows 8 is "superior" to Windows 7 (and previous version) in some areas. At the same time, there are definitely some areas where Windows 8 is considered to be way worse than Windows 7 by many people (i.e. the user interface). Will Windows 8 be a success or a failure? 1) Only time will tell and 2) it will highly depend on how one defines success/failure. Personally, I expect Windows 8 to be much less successful than Windows 7, but I don't know if it will reach Vista levels or not. I do expect that Microsoft will at some point regret their decision to "cripple' the desktop mode (i.e. not allow users to boot directly into the desktop mode or not allow users to have a Start menu in the desktop mode) and might even reverse course (of course, to my knowledge, there are ways to achieve that result without Microsoft's help). They might even go so far as to "separate" Windows 8 into a laptop/desktop version that solely uses the "desktop mode" (maybe with the option of Metro UI) and a tablet version that stays as it is. Only time will tell if things are that bad and Microsoft feels the need to really reverse course.

Now, as to my personal opinion of Windows 8...

I believe that forcing the "Modern UI" (what was Metro UI) on everyone was a mistake. I believe that this will cause Windows 8 sales to suffer, maybe to the levels of Vista (Microsoft setting the upgrade price for a period of time to $40 will help counter balance that for a while). I have not used it enough to know whether I personally consider it to be an insurmountable hurdle for my use, but I suspect that if I found it to be my only option (i.e. I HAD to use Windows 8), I would likely adapt to it...but then I tend to be able to adapt pretty well to changes in OSs (it helps that I basically constantly switch back and forth between the Mac OS and Windows as well as different versions of both).

BTW, your analog with cars seems to be confused. I cannot tell if you are really stating whether you believe an electric car to be "better" or "worse" than a gasoline car (based upon many previous comments of yours, I assume the former). I will note that by your seeming definition of "better" vs "worse" for Windows (i.e. sales levels) would tend to suggest that electric cars are "worse" than gasoline cars because so few of them get sold, yet many would argue that there definitely "superior" things about electrics.

The point is that somethings that are less successful and considered "worse" by many people can still be "better" in someways...maybe just not in enough ways to make them successful.
Good riddance PCWorld.
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#50 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:00 AM

I also wonder if they'll end up letting people disable metro or something.

By the way, I'm definitely in favor of electric cars - my point is that even though they have less range, it's rarely an issue. (My days has a fit ev, so I know first hand.) That's like the refresh feature in Windows 8, which, by nature, will rarely be used anyway. It's not worth buying something that's overall inferior (IMO) for one rarely used feature.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 15 November 2012 - 11:21 AM

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#51 User is offline   smax013 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:14 AM

View PostLiveBrianD, on 15 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

By the way, I'm definitely in favor of electric cars - my point is that even though they have less range, it's rarely an issue. (My days has a fit ev, so I know first hand.)


So, everyone has the same driving patterns as your dad (I assume that is what you mean by "days")? If you believe that, then you are very naive.

There are LOTS of people who commute rather long distances to work each day. For example, on days that I teach at the university, my drive is about 45 miles one way. And there are no "charging" stations there. So, while in theory a Fit EV would get me there an back, what happens if it does not? It is not like I can walk to an "electric" station and get an extra "gallon" of electricity to get me home. And what if I need to go/stop at some other places on my way home or on my way to class that is somewhat out of my way? Or what if I need to run some errands when I get home, but don't have enough charge left? What if I want to travel to see relatives in another city and all I have is an electric car?

The reality is that the range of electric cars is a HUGE issue for a number of people.

But, all that is basically off topic.

I will reiterate the part that was on topic. By your definition that you are using for Windows, electric cars are "worse" than gasoline cars because not many people buy/like them...yet you clearly see them as having superior aspects when compared to gasoline cars. So, since most people don't buy/want them, does that mean you are wrong about electric cars being superior in some regards to gasoline cars?
Good riddance PCWorld.
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#52 User is offline   MTBSoftware 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:42 AM

Massive survey finds U.S. consumers don’t want Windows 8

http://bgr.com/2012/...d-survey-study/
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#53 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:12 PM

View Postsmax013, on 15 November 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

View PostLiveBrianD, on 15 November 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

By the way, I'm definitely in favor of electric cars - my point is that even though they have less range, it's rarely an issue. (My days has a fit ev, so I know first hand.)


So, everyone has the same driving patterns as your dad (I assume that is what you mean by "days")? If you believe that, then you are very naive.

There are LOTS of people who commute rather long distances to work each day. For example, on days that I teach at the university, my drive is about 45 miles one way. And there are no "charging" stations there. So, while in theory a Fit EV would get me there an back, what happens if it does not? It is not like I can walk to an "electric" station and get an extra "gallon" of electricity to get me home. And what if I need to go/stop at some other places on my way home or on my way to class that is somewhat out of my way? Or what if I need to run some errands when I get home, but don't have enough charge left? What if I want to travel to see relatives in another city and all I have is an electric car?

The reality is that the range of electric cars is a HUGE issue for a number of people.

But, all that is basically off topic.

I will reiterate the part that was on topic. By your definition that you are using for Windows, electric cars are "worse" than gasoline cars because not many people buy/like them...yet you clearly see them as having superior aspects when compared to gasoline cars. So, since most people don't buy/want them, does that mean you are wrong about electric cars being superior in some regards to gasoline cars?

Darn onscreen keyboard... yes, that's a typo.

As I recall, the average commute is less than 40mi round trip. For people who fall into that category, EVs are better IMO. (My dad just drives to the nearby BART station and goes from there, and thus doesn't have to charge at all during the week.) It's like how Windows 8 works OK on a tablet, but... most of us don't use Windows on a tablet. A little ready reinstal feature isn't useful very much, like how the range on a gasoline car isn't enough to warrant an otherwise inferior car. (Assuming cost us not an issue and your commute isn't too long.) And also, the sales so far are probably due to the lack of chargers (there is a pretty decent amount in the SF bay area though), upfront cost, and lack of education on them.

Btw, I'd say ~80mi is about the realistic max on the freeway, more in the city, so an EV would work for you if you can charge at work.
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#54 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:12 PM

View PostMTBSoftware, on 15 November 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

Massive survey finds U.S. consumers don’t want Windows 8

http://bgr.com/2012/...d-survey-study/

Exactly!
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#55 User is offline   smax013 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:24 PM

View PostMTBSoftware, on 15 November 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

Massive survey finds U.S. consumers don’t want Windows 8

http://bgr.com/2012/...d-survey-study/


While I don't really time will change that much, it will be interesting to see what does happen as more people get actual experience/exposure to Windows 8. As I have said, I don't expect for a minute for it to be as successful as Windows 7. I am just not sure if it will be as bad as Vista.

And that still does not mean that there are not improvements in Windows 8...just that any improvements that are there are not enough to overcome the negatives, perceived or actual, of Windows 8 (such as the new UI).

And it does not tell us anything about WHY most people don't want to upgrade (at least that "summary" of the survey in the article did not). In the US, it is possible that many people won't get a new computer for economic reasons. While I am certain that the new UI is a reason for many, this survey might be overestimating that number.
Good riddance PCWorld.
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#56 User is offline   Dellinsp531 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:40 PM

View Postwaldojim, on 15 November 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

View PostLiveBrianD, on 14 November 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

That is strictly your opinion. Sure, the kernel is superior, no doubt, but unless they knock off the metro garbage, I am not upgrading. For one thing, notice how none of the devices I own are limited to an app store that company runs? (Galaxy Nexus, 2 Windows 7 machines) That being the case with metro is definitely a reason for me to avoid it. Not to mention how that doesn't even fit a desktop environment well. (they could've just let people disable it, and they would've gotten plenty more sales - but that's far too logical, isn't it?) So far, reception doesn't look very positive, though it'll probably take a few months to get a verdict. (it wasn't very hard for me to predict what would happen)

Well, you certainly have no shortage of opinions. No matter the topic.

And sorry to burst your bubble, but there are many ways Windows 8 is superior. The kernel was obvious, but there are others. Windows Media Center has vast improvements regarding tuner compatibility. Storage spaces make for quick and easy drive pooling. As Smax mentioned, Windows has Refresh as an option now in place of reinstall. And many others.

But of course, you will remain hung up on Metro, because that is what you do.



Well what about the downfalls that Windows has like remove DVD play back. There are more downfalls with Windows 8 than improvements.
"Windows 8 had the most vulnerabilities, at 156, but.... "
vulnerabilites rose in 2013, security firm finds

Windows 8 is a useless OS that Microsoft released that has many flaws and bugs. DO NOT USE IT. Use Windows XP or Windows 7.
Downgrading from Windows 8 to 7: What you need to know

German Agency Warns Windows 8 Pcs Vulnerable To Cyberthreats

Former Microsoft privacy adviser: 'I don't trust Microsoft now'



Other laptops that I had in the past:


(Why were my sign removed? Please let me know.)
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#57 User is offline   MTBSoftware 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:56 PM

View Postwaldojim, on 15 November 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

View PostLiveBrianD, on 14 November 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

That is strictly your opinion. Sure, the kernel is superior, no doubt, but unless they knock off the metro garbage, I am not upgrading. For one thing, notice how none of the devices I own are limited to an app store that company runs? (Galaxy Nexus, 2 Windows 7 machines) That being the case with metro is definitely a reason for me to avoid it. Not to mention how that doesn't even fit a desktop environment well. (they could've just let people disable it, and they would've gotten plenty more sales - but that's far too logical, isn't it?) So far, reception doesn't look very positive, though it'll probably take a few months to get a verdict. (it wasn't very hard for me to predict what would happen)

Well, you certainly have no shortage of opinions. No matter the topic.

This post has been edited by rgreen4: 15 November 2012 - 02:18 PM
Reason for edit: Removed Personal Attack Posting

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#58 User is offline   compnovo 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:31 PM

View Postsmax013, on 15 November 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

As I have said, I don't expect for a minute for it to be as successful as Windows 7. I am just not sure if it will be as bad as Vista.

I'm running Win8 Pro on only one of the three desktops in our home, and I like Win8. Microsoft did such a good job with Win7 that I don't have a compelling reason to upgrade the other two at this time (not that my wife would let me touch hers, anyway :lol: ).

If I had to make a guess (which is the best anyone can do with surveys like this) it would be the same for the majority of the others that aren't upgrading: It isn't that Win8 is bad, it's that Win7 is that good.

Note that I'm not in the LiveBrian camp that has serious heartburn about the Modern UI. It works fine as a start screen for me on my desktop, and it really comes into its own on the Surface.
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#59 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 02:56 PM

For me, it's both - I don't like metro, and there's really nothing wrong with Win7. Granted, there are things that Windows 8 improved on, but I'll accept a few minor shortcomings for a better OS overall.
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#60 User is offline   waldojim 

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:49 PM

View PostLiveBrianD, on 15 November 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

How often do you reinstall the OS? I'll easily take a better interface over a feature I use once a year or so (if I trust that to do a completely clean install, that is). I, and most others, don't use MCE, so I don't care about it. You may as well argue that an electric car is better than a gasoline one. Sure, they're better for those few times you need to go a long distance, and they cost more upfront, but the rest of the time, there's really no advantage.

So your argument is that, since it doesn't affect you directly, you don't care? Well then I counter with: who cares what you think, your child spending your parents money, and I am a paying customer paying with my own money. I have real buying power. Which I used to voice my opinion.

In other words, you don't mean anything to Microsoft. As such, they have no reason to care about you any more than you care about others.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 15 November 2012 - 05:50 PM

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