[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 14 January 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

OK, to start with, launch the desktop version of Windows Update by searching in metro. Oh wait, you can't. (without launching the one about update history or something)

Seriously, don't even bother replying, and realize that you are in a minority among the general population, if the 3/5 ratings EVERYWHERE (just about) say anything. I knew there was a reason I put you on ignore a while ago (and if the shilling keeps up, that won't be changing).

Windows update runs automatically.

You really need a life.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 14 January 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 14 January 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

OK, to start with, launch the desktop version of Windows Update by searching in metro. Oh wait, you can't. (without launching the one about update history or something)

Seriously, don't even bother replying, and realize that you are in a minority among the general population, if the 3/5 ratings EVERYWHERE (just about) say anything. I knew there was a reason I put you on ignore a while ago (and if the shilling keeps up, that won't be changing).

Windows update runs automatically.

You really need a life.

Except that I set it to manual on the laptop because I don't appreciate it using the limited battery and network bandwidth when I'm at school to update, while I'm trying to get something done. I then manually update later, when I'm at home. (it's set to automatically run on the desktop though)

So, how big is that paycheck Microsoft's been sending you in the mail?

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 14 January 2013 - 06:01 PM

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 14 January 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Except that I set it to manual on the laptop because I don't appreciate it using the limited battery and network bandwidth when I'm at school to update,

It doesn't run 24/7. Not even on automatic.

Quote

while I'm trying to get something done. I then manually update later, when I'm at home. (it's set to automatically run on the desktop though)

So, how big is that paycheck Microsoft's been sending you in the mail?

You intentionally make your own life harder.

The real question here is NOT how much is MS paying me to make fun of your pathetic ass, but how much are others paying YOU to make up such nonsense?

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 14 January 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 14 January 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Except that I set it to manual on the laptop because I don't appreciate it using the limited battery and network bandwidth when I'm at school to update,

It doesn't run 24/7. Not even on automatic.

Quote

while I'm trying to get something done. I then manually update later, when I'm at home. (it's set to automatically run on the desktop though)

So, how big is that paycheck Microsoft's been sending you in the mail?

You intentionally make your own life harder.

The real question here is NOT how much is MS paying me to make fun of your pathetic ass, but how much are others paying YOU to make up such nonsense?

Sure, it doesn't run all the time, but I don't take breaks on Tuesdays. And again, hogging the limited bandwidth when I'm on a slow school connection doesn't help me, it annoys the crap out of me when everything loads slowly as a result. That's why I set it to manual. Plus, installing updates, even if in the background, wastes battery and slows it down a little (it's only an E350 after all).

Nonsense? What the hell are you talking about? Have you been living under a rock for the past year or so, oblivious to the fact that 8 isn't being received well at all? Sounds like a shill to me. Perhaps you drank a little too much of the Cool-Aid? You just listen to people who happen to agree with you, even when you're in the minority, and act like there's no opposing opinion since you've never heard one. (which is because you never listened to any of them... duh!) Sounds like the modern Tea Party...

Now one thing that actually would make my life harder would be installing 8, which I refuse to do if Microsoft refuses to fix the blatant flaws in 8. I wonder if 7 years is enough time for them to stop smoking crack and wake up to reality. (since Windows 7's support ends in 2020)

I choose the settings I do for a reason. Tell me a way to leave Windows Update enabled without using ANY CPU power or battery, or a way to leave my machine running with the lid closed to save physical space while downloading stuff, without changing my settings to accommodate Windows 8's flaws.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 14 January 2013 - 09:10 PM

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 14 January 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Sure, it doesn't run all the time, but I don't take breaks on Tuesdays. And again, hogging the limited bandwidth when I'm on a slow school connection doesn't help me, it annoys the crap out of me when everything loads slowly as a result. That's why I set it to manual. Plus, installing updates, even if in the background, wastes battery and slows it down a little (it's only an E350 after all).

If your E350 is killing a battery because of the Windows update service, you have a problem with your machine. Not Windows.

Quote

Nonsense? What the hell are you talking about? Have you been living under a rock for the past year or so, oblivious to the fact that 8 isn't being received well at all? Sounds like a shill to me. Perhaps you drank a little too much of the Cool-Aid?

Oh, I am quite aware. I am also aware of both the REAL and the IMAGINARY problems.

You are making up a list that would even make the most die-hard Windows haters question your motives.

To be frank, as far out in left field as you are - I honestly cannot imagine anyone taking your word to be anything other than that of a nutjob.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 14 January 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 14 January 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Sure, it doesn't run all the time, but I don't take breaks on Tuesdays. And again, hogging the limited bandwidth when I'm on a slow school connection doesn't help me, it annoys the crap out of me when everything loads slowly as a result. That's why I set it to manual. Plus, installing updates, even if in the background, wastes battery and slows it down a little (it's only an E350 after all).

If your E350 is killing a battery because of the Windows update service, you have a problem with your machine. Not Windows.

Quote

Nonsense? What the hell are you talking about? Have you been living under a rock for the past year or so, oblivious to the fact that 8 isn't being received well at all? Sounds like a shill to me. Perhaps you drank a little too much of the Cool-Aid?

Oh, I am quite aware. I am also aware of both the REAL and the IMAGINARY problems.

You are making up a list that would even make the most die-hard Windows haters question your motives.

To be frank, as far out in left field as you are - I honestly cannot imagine anyone taking your word to be anything other than that of a nutjob.

It doesn't kill the battery, but like any other machine, more load does drain it a bit faster. Why have that if you don't need to?

And secondly, why is that I'm having a hard time finding many people who actually like Windows 8, outside of the internet? Heck, my parents thought it was confusing and had heard it was junk, before I'd said ANYTHING about my opinion on it. Multiply that by every other person out there (particularly ones that aren't tech savvy), and you've got a BIG problem. So far, the reviews are indicating just that.

Also note that all the usability problems 8 has aren't shared with ANY other modern OSes out there I've used lately. Ubuntu is actually quite easy to use in comparison.

I suspect all the bullshit was driven by those store profits - too bad most people try to avoid metro, and 95% of Windows 8 machines lack touchscreens. Looks like a flop to me... Hopefully, Microsoft will discover the obvious and actually listen to the customers (ignoring them never worked before, so why would it now?) and attempt to fix it. (if they do, I'll probably upgrade to that OS) If they don't, they'll really be screwing themselves over...

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 14 January 2013 - 09:25 PM

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 14 January 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

It doesn't kill the battery, but like any other machine, more load does drain it a bit faster. Why have that if you don't need to?

I am guessing one of us is actually better at battery management. What is the max life you have gotten from yours? From mine, it was about 45minutes LONGER than Lenovo even claimed possible. No, I didn't disable Windows update to make this happen. Lenovo includes tools that help make the most of the hardware.

Quote

And secondly, why is that I'm having a hard time finding many people who actually like Windows 8, outside of the internet? Heck, my parents thought it was confusing and had heard it was junk, before I'd said ANYTHING about my opinion on it. Multiply that by every other person out there (particularly ones that aren't tech savvy), and you've got a BIG problem. So far, the reviews are indicating just that.

Most people are afraid of change, and give Windows 8 about 30 seconds before going "OMG this is like, so stupid". I work with several of these people. When offered up EASY solutions that were already staring them in the faces, all I got for a response was.... "Wow, why didn't I think of that?"

And BTW - your complaints have NOTHING to do with the average person. The average person isn't going to dig around in the Windows internals, disable necessary functions, and then complain when they made their own life harder.

Quote

Also note that all the usability problems 8 has aren't shared with ANY other modern OSes out there I've used lately. Ubuntu is actually quite easy to use in comparison.

I suspect all the bullshit was driven by those store profits - too bad most people try to avoid metro, and 95% of Windows 8 machines lack touchscreens. Looks like a flop to me... Hopefully, Microsoft will discover the obvious and actually listen to the customers (ignoring them never worked before, so why would it now?) and attempt to fix it. (if they do, I'll probably upgrade to that OS) If they don't, they'll really be screwing themselves over...

Not going to be sidetracked by the Ubuntu mess. Run out of arguments? Need a misdirection? Seems that is all you have. 1/3 truths, and misdirections.

And you have the audacity to call others shills.

Some peoples children....

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 14 January 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 14 January 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

It doesn't kill the battery, but like any other machine, more load does drain it a bit faster. Why have that if you don't need to?

I am guessing one of us is actually better at battery management. What is the max life you have gotten from yours? From mine, it was about 45minutes LONGER than Lenovo even claimed possible. No, I didn't disable Windows update to make this happen. Lenovo includes tools that help make the most of the hardware.

Quote

And secondly, why is that I'm having a hard time finding many people who actually like Windows 8, outside of the internet? Heck, my parents thought it was confusing and had heard it was junk, before I'd said ANYTHING about my opinion on it. Multiply that by every other person out there (particularly ones that aren't tech savvy), and you've got a BIG problem. So far, the reviews are indicating just that.

Most people are afraid of change, and give Windows 8 about 30 seconds before going "OMG this is like, so stupid". I work with several of these people. When offered up EASY solutions that were already staring them in the faces, all I got for a response was.... "Wow, why didn't I think of that?"

And BTW - your complaints have NOTHING to do with the average person. The average person isn't going to dig around in the Windows internals, disable necessary functions, and then complain when they made their own life harder.

Quote

Also note that all the usability problems 8 has aren't shared with ANY other modern OSes out there I've used lately. Ubuntu is actually quite easy to use in comparison.

I suspect all the bullshit was driven by those store profits - too bad most people try to avoid metro, and 95% of Windows 8 machines lack touchscreens. Looks like a flop to me... Hopefully, Microsoft will discover the obvious and actually listen to the customers (ignoring them never worked before, so why would it now?) and attempt to fix it. (if they do, I'll probably upgrade to that OS) If they don't, they'll really be screwing themselves over...

Not going to be sidetracked by the Ubuntu mess. Run out of arguments? Need a misdirection? Seems that is all you have. 1/3 truths, and misdirections.

And you have the audacity to call others shills.

Some peoples children....

You're still missing the point - I run Windows Update manually because that's when it's convenient. And do you have a solution to the problem of it hogging the limited bandwidth and slowing down the internet connection? Or are you just going to make up a reason to declare that one irrelevant as well?

And again, you seem too short-sighted to realize this - there is a good reason I use the settings I do. Granted, part of the lid one is a habit from the XP days, which would sleep DURING the shutdown process if the lid was closed (which seems like a natural thing to do), but still, I like manual control over things. And Windows 8 just doesn't help with that.

Finally, looks like YOU have run out of arguments if you have to disqualify others just because YOU think they're irrelevant, but actually aren't.

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 15 January 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

You're still missing the point - I run Windows Update manually because that's when it's convenient. And do you have a solution to the problem of it hogging the limited bandwidth and slowing down the internet connection? Or are you just going to make up a reason to declare that one irrelevant as well?

And again, you seem too short-sighted to realize this - there is a good reason I use the settings I do. Granted, part of the lid one is a habit from the XP days, which would sleep DURING the shutdown process if the lid was closed (which seems like a natural thing to do), but still, I like manual control over things. And Windows 8 just doesn't help with that.

Finally, looks like YOU have run out of arguments if you have to disqualify others just because YOU think they're irrelevant, but actually aren't.

Actually, no I didn't. I called your point invalid. A smokescreen. A means for you to hide and cower while blaming others.

Windows Background Intelligent Transfer has never been a problem for me. Even over my 3g connections. WHY? Because Windows was set up to download inconspicuously.

My point to YOU is simple: Windows 8 was designed from the ground up for AUTOMATIC functions. This reduces user interaction, and removes common problems.

YOU TOOK IT UPON YOURSELF to make life harder on yourself.

BLAME YOURSELF FOR YOUR ACTIONS, not Microsoft.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 15 January 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 15 January 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

You're still missing the point - I run Windows Update manually because that's when it's convenient. And do you have a solution to the problem of it hogging the limited bandwidth and slowing down the internet connection? Or are you just going to make up a reason to declare that one irrelevant as well?

And again, you seem too short-sighted to realize this - there is a good reason I use the settings I do. Granted, part of the lid one is a habit from the XP days, which would sleep DURING the shutdown process if the lid was closed (which seems like a natural thing to do), but still, I like manual control over things. And Windows 8 just doesn't help with that.

Finally, looks like YOU have run out of arguments if you have to disqualify others just because YOU think they're irrelevant, but actually aren't.

Actually, no I didn't. I called your point invalid. A smokescreen. A means for you to hide and cower while blaming others.

Windows Background Intelligent Transfer has never been a problem for me. Even over my 3g connections. WHY? Because Windows was set up to download inconspicuously.

My point to YOU is simple: Windows 8 was designed from the ground up for AUTOMATIC functions. This reduces user interaction, and removes common problems.

YOU TOOK IT UPON YOURSELF to make life harder on yourself.

BLAME YOURSELF FOR YOUR ACTIONS, not Microsoft.

I must say, you seem to come up with the most accurate descriptions of yourself, but claim they're of someone else. Windows 8 is a piece of [censored], simple as that. And in terms of Ubuntu, let's just call you a hater and a moron that no one else understands, shall we? Just because you don't like it. (that's exactly what you're doing to me, ignoring the fact that there are LOTS of people who don't like it's poor design.) There are people in the world who don't like broken products, you know.

And as I've said, I don't WANT certain things to run automatically, because they tends to get in my way. Nor do I want a tablet UI to get in my way. For instance, I HAVE had Windows Update noticeably slow down the connection at school when it's downloading stuff in the background - not appreciated at all.

Another thing is the fact that it filters search results in illogical ways sometimes. If I type "mouse", well, gee, EVERY SINGLE OPTION is under 'Settings'. There are ZERO options under 'Apps'. Therefore, Windows still assumes I want Apps by default, right? Even though, based on where all the results are, it has a 0% chance of being correct under any circumstance? Even though none of the results for that are under Apps? That makes no sense to me... (I actually mess with that one quite a bit on my laptop, depending on if I have a mouse connected or not, as I change the pointer speed based on that. The Logitech V220 I use with it tends to move too quickly, so I have to turn down the pointer speed when I'm using it.) Yet another thing that was easier in 7...

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 15 January 2013 - 03:51 PM

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 15 January 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

I must say, you seem to come up with the most accurate descriptions of yourself, but claim they're of someone else. Windows 8 is a piece of [censored], simple as that. And in terms of Ubuntu, let's just call you a hater and a moron that no one else understands, shall we? Just because you don't like it. (that's exactly what you're doing to me, ignoring the fact that there are LOTS of people who don't like it's poor design.) There are people in the world who don't like broken products, you know.

And as I've said, I don't WANT certain things to run automatically, because they tends to get in my way. Nor do I want a tablet UI to get in my way. For instance, I HAVE had Windows Update noticeably slow down the connection at school when it's downloading stuff in the background - not appreciated at all.

Another thing is the fact that it filters search results in illogical ways sometimes. If I type "mouse", well, gee, EVERY SINGLE OPTION is under 'Settings'. There are ZERO options under 'Apps'. Therefore, Windows still assumes I want Apps by default, right? Even though, based on where all the results are, it has a 0% chance of being correct under any circumstance? Even though none of the results for that are under Apps? That makes no sense to me... (I actually mess with that one quite a bit on my laptop, depending on if I have a mouse connected or not, as I change the pointer speed based on that. The Logitech V220 I use with it tends to move too quickly, so I have to turn down the pointer speed when I'm using it.) Yet another thing that was easier in 7...

And back on ignore you go.

Name calling, and sophistry is no way to go through life, boy.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 15 January 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 15 January 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

I must say, you seem to come up with the most accurate descriptions of yourself, but claim they're of someone else. Windows 8 is a piece of [censored], simple as that. And in terms of Ubuntu, let's just call you a hater and a moron that no one else understands, shall we? Just because you don't like it. (that's exactly what you're doing to me, ignoring the fact that there are LOTS of people who don't like it's poor design.) There are people in the world who don't like broken products, you know.

And as I've said, I don't WANT certain things to run automatically, because they tends to get in my way. Nor do I want a tablet UI to get in my way. For instance, I HAVE had Windows Update noticeably slow down the connection at school when it's downloading stuff in the background - not appreciated at all.

Another thing is the fact that it filters search results in illogical ways sometimes. If I type "mouse", well, gee, EVERY SINGLE OPTION is under 'Settings'. There are ZERO options under 'Apps'. Therefore, Windows still assumes I want Apps by default, right? Even though, based on where all the results are, it has a 0% chance of being correct under any circumstance? Even though none of the results for that are under Apps? That makes no sense to me... (I actually mess with that one quite a bit on my laptop, depending on if I have a mouse connected or not, as I change the pointer speed based on that. The Logitech V220 I use with it tends to move too quickly, so I have to turn down the pointer speed when I'm using it.) Yet another thing that was easier in 7...

And back on ignore you go.

Name calling, and sophistry is no way to go through life, boy.

Yawn... you've been on my ignore list for quite a while actually, due to your blatant idiocracy. (the last time you made up facts and shilled, you went on there) And rather than realizing it and shutting up, you seem to like showing it off. Not a great idea, to be sure...

Fyi, shilling does NOT work in your favor. Much the opposite, in fact. (think of Windows 8 and Verizon... the fact that I completely changed my mind at possibly using 8 for VM stuff, and the fact that I cancelled my Verizon phone and am moving the rest of the family off Verizon, and you happen to shill for those companies, isn't entirely a coincidence. See this: http://theoatmeal.co...sell_generation )

I also notice you don't have a response to being called an Ubuntu hater. Looks like you love to make up bullshit, and ignore legitimate arguments just because you feel like it. ***cough***troll***cough***

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 15 January 2013 - 09:07 PM

[Yordan]

I dont see the 2 the worst features : HTML5 apps and Metro UI,

Please add them

[StygianAgenda]

The Trolls are out in force today, I see.

My own experience with Windows 8 (Pro) has been overall pretty good. And take it for what it's worth, but I've been a system engineer professionally for over 2 decades, having used computers for 3 decades. I'm a huge fan of Linux of just about any type, and I work with both Microsoft & Linux based OS's professionally as well as in a hacker/hobbyist capacity.

While I'll admit Windows 8 has quite a learning curve where it comes to finding new ways to do old tasks, it's not a steep learning curve... in fact, the more I used it, the more I found myself wishing that I had touch-screens on every system in my house so I could engage with my systems in this new way. For the entire weekend, after purchasing and loading out Windows 8 Pro on my Acer Iconia W500, I had to keep stopping myself from trying to manipulate my older systems in the same way that I was manipulating my tablet.

Now, while I really like the *feel* of the interface, and even the new software keyboard (a lot), there are several things that I find irritating about Windows 8 as well, with the largest of those being the methods I've had to use to simply create desktop shortcuts to apps that weren't already populated to the start menu. Granted, it wasn't beneath my skills... just irritating, but in retrospect... I could see this being a deal-breaker for those less technically inclined. From my experience in IT, I've seen so many people that take a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" approach to their computing hardware... system becomes slow with spyware, what do they do? Fix it? No... of course not. They go buy another computer. What a waste! Just a few weeks ago, one of my private clients asked me to evaluate her PC to determine if it should be reloaded, replaced, or what... Well, this was an odd motherboard or BIOS, or something, because it refused to load from a Windows Boot Loader, but it would boot all day from grub, so I setup the system as a dual-boot config, with WinXP (owner's preference) and Ubuntu 12.04. When it came time to deliver & install the repaired system, the owner absolutely fell in love with Ubuntu. I know... a lot of people have complained about the Unity desktop, but I've worked with it extensively and tend to optimize every system that goes out my door... nothing leaves my lab with a generic load-out... it's something I'd consider unethical considering the expectations of my clientele.

This comes around full circle to prove a point however. While a large number of people don't like change when it comes to computers in general, as has been shown so many times in the past when a leap in OS technology came along, it's not altogether impossible to wean someone to a new way of doing things, provided the "wow factor" is high enough to pique their interest. Windows 8 is in my opinion, Microsoft's way of finally realizing this... to a degree. Unity wasn't well received at first, and among some... probably never will be... but this is due to a choice in esthetics, not a reflection of the quality of an OS or desktop environment release, which is really the same thing that Microsoft is now experiencing that they've finally gotten brave enough to take the risk of radical change.

Part of me wants Microsoft to fail, yet another part of me doesn't. While I've never been a fan of Microsoft's internal attitudes, development methods, and anti-competitive practices, I've got to give it to them in for their look-and-feel unification over the years with their platforms. I like some of the protocols they've developed, and even more so when Microsoft actually cooperates with others to build out protocol support for alternative Operating Systems. But look to the fiasco involving Microsoft & UEFI secure boot certificates, and its easy to see that Mickeysoft is still up to their same old tricks. On the other hand, I really like a lot of their products, and have used their OS's, Apps, and game systems for years now. In the end, the best result to me is when a middle ground is found around standards that are not governed by any particular corporation, yet benefit all who become involved. Microsoft, just like USRobotics, Sony, and several others before them, tend to like to be the setter of trends, rather than an 'also ran', so I understand the game they play, but at the end of the day.... are they any better for it? Who wins?

Regardless, Windows 8 is a decent OS, especially considering that it's the 1.0 of a whole new design path. I'm certainly happier with this release than I was with WinME or Vista.... it could have been a *lot* worse!

[waldojim]

StygianAgenda, on 04 February 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

The Trolls are out in force today, I see.

Today? No. That was over a week ago.

Quote

My own experience with Windows 8 (Pro) has been overall pretty good. And take it for what it's worth, but I've been a system engineer professionally for over 2 decades, having used computers for 3 decades. I'm a huge fan of Linux of just about any type, and I work with both Microsoft & Linux based OS's professionally as well as in a hacker/hobbyist capacity.

While I'll admit Windows 8 has quite a learning curve where it comes to finding new ways to do old tasks, it's not a steep learning curve... in fact, the more I used it, the more I found myself wishing that I had touch-screens on every system in my house so I could engage with my systems in this new way. For the entire weekend, after purchasing and loading out Windows 8 Pro on my Acer Iconia W500, I had to keep stopping myself from trying to manipulate my older systems in the same way that I was manipulating my tablet.

Now, while I really like the *feel* of the interface, and even the new software keyboard (a lot), there are several things that I find irritating about Windows 8 as well, with the largest of those being the methods I've had to use to simply create desktop shortcuts to apps that weren't already populated to the start menu. Granted, it wasn't beneath my skills... just irritating, but in retrospect... I could see this being a deal-breaker for those less technically inclined. From my experience in IT, I've seen so many people that take a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" approach to their computing hardware... system becomes slow with spyware, what do they do? Fix it? No... of course not. They go buy another computer. What a waste! Just a few weeks ago, one of my private clients asked me to evaluate her PC to determine if it should be reloaded, replaced, or what... Well, this was an odd motherboard or BIOS, or something, because it refused to load from a Windows Boot Loader, but it would boot all day from grub, so I setup the system as a dual-boot config, with WinXP (owner's preference) and Ubuntu 12.04. When it came time to deliver & install the repaired system, the owner absolutely fell in love with Ubuntu. I know... a lot of people have complained about the Unity desktop, but I've worked with it extensively and tend to optimize every system that goes out my door... nothing leaves my lab with a generic load-out... it's something I'd consider unethical considering the expectations of my clientele.

This comes around full circle to prove a point however. While a large number of people don't like change when it comes to computers in general, as has been shown so many times in the past when a leap in OS technology came along, it's not altogether impossible to wean someone to a new way of doing things, provided the "wow factor" is high enough to pique their interest. Windows 8 is in my opinion, Microsoft's way of finally realizing this... to a degree. Unity wasn't well received at first, and among some... probably never will be... but this is due to a choice in esthetics, not a reflection of the quality of an OS or desktop environment release, which is really the same thing that Microsoft is now experiencing that they've finally gotten brave enough to take the risk of radical change.

Part of me wants Microsoft to fail, yet another part of me doesn't. While I've never been a fan of Microsoft's internal attitudes, development methods, and anti-competitive practices, I've got to give it to them in for their look-and-feel unification over the years with their platforms. I like some of the protocols they've developed, and even more so when Microsoft actually cooperates with others to build out protocol support for alternative Operating Systems. But look to the fiasco involving Microsoft & UEFI secure boot certificates, and its easy to see that Mickeysoft is still up to their same old tricks. On the other hand, I really like a lot of their products, and have used their OS's, Apps, and game systems for years now. In the end, the best result to me is when a middle ground is found around standards that are not governed by any particular corporation, yet benefit all who become involved. Microsoft, just like USRobotics, Sony, and several others before them, tend to like to be the setter of trends, rather than an 'also ran', so I understand the game they play, but at the end of the day.... are they any better for it? Who wins?

Regardless, Windows 8 is a decent OS, especially considering that it's the 1.0 of a whole new design path. I'm certainly happier with this release than I was with WinME or Vista.... it could have been a *lot* worse!

I think the end result here falls in line with a lot of Windows 8 users opinions. Essentially, it is a decent new OS, and like all other major overhauls, there are going to be differences. Some for the better, some worse. I do enjoy using Windows 8 on my hardware though.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 04 February 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

StygianAgenda, on 04 February 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

The Trolls are out in force today, I see.

Today? No. That was over a week ago.

Quote

My own experience with Windows 8 (Pro) has been overall pretty good. And take it for what it's worth, but I've been a system engineer professionally for over 2 decades, having used computers for 3 decades. I'm a huge fan of Linux of just about any type, and I work with both Microsoft & Linux based OS's professionally as well as in a hacker/hobbyist capacity.

While I'll admit Windows 8 has quite a learning curve where it comes to finding new ways to do old tasks, it's not a steep learning curve... in fact, the more I used it, the more I found myself wishing that I had touch-screens on every system in my house so I could engage with my systems in this new way. For the entire weekend, after purchasing and loading out Windows 8 Pro on my Acer Iconia W500, I had to keep stopping myself from trying to manipulate my older systems in the same way that I was manipulating my tablet.

Now, while I really like the *feel* of the interface, and even the new software keyboard (a lot), there are several things that I find irritating about Windows 8 as well, with the largest of those being the methods I've had to use to simply create desktop shortcuts to apps that weren't already populated to the start menu. Granted, it wasn't beneath my skills... just irritating, but in retrospect... I could see this being a deal-breaker for those less technically inclined. From my experience in IT, I've seen so many people that take a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" approach to their computing hardware... system becomes slow with spyware, what do they do? Fix it? No... of course not. They go buy another computer. What a waste! Just a few weeks ago, one of my private clients asked me to evaluate her PC to determine if it should be reloaded, replaced, or what... Well, this was an odd motherboard or BIOS, or something, because it refused to load from a Windows Boot Loader, but it would boot all day from grub, so I setup the system as a dual-boot config, with WinXP (owner's preference) and Ubuntu 12.04. When it came time to deliver & install the repaired system, the owner absolutely fell in love with Ubuntu. I know... a lot of people have complained about the Unity desktop, but I've worked with it extensively and tend to optimize every system that goes out my door... nothing leaves my lab with a generic load-out... it's something I'd consider unethical considering the expectations of my clientele.

This comes around full circle to prove a point however. While a large number of people don't like change when it comes to computers in general, as has been shown so many times in the past when a leap in OS technology came along, it's not altogether impossible to wean someone to a new way of doing things, provided the "wow factor" is high enough to pique their interest. Windows 8 is in my opinion, Microsoft's way of finally realizing this... to a degree. Unity wasn't well received at first, and among some... probably never will be... but this is due to a choice in esthetics, not a reflection of the quality of an OS or desktop environment release, which is really the same thing that Microsoft is now experiencing that they've finally gotten brave enough to take the risk of radical change.

Part of me wants Microsoft to fail, yet another part of me doesn't. While I've never been a fan of Microsoft's internal attitudes, development methods, and anti-competitive practices, I've got to give it to them in for their look-and-feel unification over the years with their platforms. I like some of the protocols they've developed, and even more so when Microsoft actually cooperates with others to build out protocol support for alternative Operating Systems. But look to the fiasco involving Microsoft & UEFI secure boot certificates, and its easy to see that Mickeysoft is still up to their same old tricks. On the other hand, I really like a lot of their products, and have used their OS's, Apps, and game systems for years now. In the end, the best result to me is when a middle ground is found around standards that are not governed by any particular corporation, yet benefit all who become involved. Microsoft, just like USRobotics, Sony, and several others before them, tend to like to be the setter of trends, rather than an 'also ran', so I understand the game they play, but at the end of the day.... are they any better for it? Who wins?

Regardless, Windows 8 is a decent OS, especially considering that it's the 1.0 of a whole new design path. I'm certainly happier with this release than I was with WinME or Vista.... it could have been a *lot* worse!

I think the end result here falls in line with a lot of Windows 8 users opinions. Essentially, it is a decent new OS, and like all other major overhauls, there are going to be differences. Some for the better, some worse. I do enjoy using Windows 8 on my hardware though.

Thing is, it has the potential to be a good product, and more than likely, they'll figure it out in the next version of Windows. I just don't understand why they didn't listen to feedback during the betas and do the obvious - that is, listen to the users and make changes accordingly...

[EinoAnttila]

Ín my experience as a bootcamp Windows 8 MacBook and Nexus 7 user I've noticed that Wndows 8 actually offers a much more compelling, immersive and all around fun, focused social app experience. For Twitter, MetroTwit, Gleek and Rowi among others are just awesome apps you won't find on Android or iOS that to me actually made me "get" Twitter. I really don't enjoy using Twitter on the messy renditions on Android. Twitter's official app on Android is the best on out there, but that still makes me wish I was using People, Rowi, Gleek or others that I absolutely love to use on Window 8.

For Facebook, there are so many more variations to add up to the life over on that side and to spice up the old and dusty Facebook-look that makes me feel like using Excel. MINE for Facebook and the People app are my absolute go-to apps for news reading with Facebook.

I never use Facebook on Android if I don't absolutely have to just cause there's no viable alternatives. Absolutely none, nada, zippo.

Also, same with YouTube. There are so many awesome YouTube apps for Windows 8 that offer so much more compelling, and all around more usable experience than for example Android does.

On Android, if you search for YouTube, you get... well, YouTube. Which is a horrible rendition of YouTube itself, if you've "stepped out of the cave" and seen how enjoyable using the dusty, normally all-around-dull-looking can actually be with a more minimal, all around more usable approach.

YouTubeRT and YouTube+ are my absolute go-to apps for YouTube usage nowadays and everytime I use YT on Android, I kinda can't help but to feel underwhelmed.

Basically all the YouTube apps on Windows 8 for some reason show the videos sharper and stream much quicker than YouTube itself or any kind of Android rendition. You can even scroll through the video with live images which is something you can never do on the website nor on other platforms.

Not sure about iOS though, but wouldn't be surprised if the YouTube state of things is just as bad as Android.

Then for the music side, sure there's no official Spotify, Rdio or other apps yet, and this sure is shame. There are though a lot of great apps that at least Android doesn't.

Where's the Android renditions of Windows 8 apps Vinyle, YouTube DJ or MusicTube that I so much love? Again, if these things are on iOS, great stuff. I wouldn't know cause I don't have an iPad (or iPhone). All of these are YouTube based music & video players that offer full collections of artists along with their albums, songs and their matching music videos.

Meaning, I just listened Radiohead's Bends with Vinyle with matching music videos for each song that has them. You can even check out all the live videos on each song which the app keeps the album's tracklist organized. You have the whole catalogue of Beatles and Metallica along with their videos streaming and full album collections in good quality straight from YouTube. I can't do that with any Android app, for free and working fantastic. Or if I can, lemme know, cause I AM definitely interested to.

With games, well RT is nowhere near the vast and expressive collection of iOS or Android. This is what I actually bought the Nexus 7 for. To play games. A lot of games. All my PS1 and SNES games, and of course all those fun touch-oriented games.

But, things aren't all that bad for Windows 8 either. Windows 8 seems to have gotten "the best of" selection of the touch-based games and some others. I've noticed with my Nexus 7 that 3D based games aren't really fun with touch and especially games that try to be like console games aren't really engaging. Games like Chimpact, Shark Dash, 4 Elements and Skulls of Shogun are just the types of games that to me are AWE-SOME on a mobile device and these are getting a good amount of attention with the Windows 8 or RT space.

Of course, for a proper Windows 8 i5 or i7 powered tablet like Acer Iconia W700 or the Surface Pro, the emulator space is just awesome. I can easily make images of my PS1, PS2, Dreamcast, GameCube and Wii games right with the tablet and hook them up with an emulator. Playing Shenmue on long train trip, hell yes. For Android I haven't found anything that needs more power than PS1.

I do wish the Windows Store would fill up with more Windows 8 orientated emulators though, so you didn't have to hook up external touch controllers.

All around and as a wrap-up, using my Nexus 7 compared to my MacBook with Windows 8 makes me wish I had a proper Windows 8 tablet. They're not perfect either, since they're quite heavy.

But neither are the Nexus 7 nor Android perfect, not by a long shot. My experience with the Nexus 7 is a hellishly laggy, constantly stuttering and un-recognizing experience and I find it ridiculous that I have to have a "kill all tasks" app right there on my start screen, cause the OS doesn't know how to kill tasks and apps itself. There's constantly like 30 games and other apps running on the background that I've launched once. Sonic 4 and all the rest, why do you keep taking all my memory?

What I love about the Nexus 7 is that with a 15£ keyboard cover from eBay, I can easily fit it in my trouser pocket and pull it up in seconds.

What I pretty enthusiasticly dislike about the Nexus 7 is that when I pull it up from my pocket, it reminds me of how laggy it is. There's no feedback from the OS apps (home button etc), and they usually take seconds to even recognise a button press. Which leads to an all around chaotic experience with the OS where I usually have no idea whether I really hit the button right, or if it's just lagging like hell, like it usually does.

On Nexus 7 the apps are constantly crashing and freezing. I get that selection of if I want to "wait" or "close" the app, cause it's not doing anything countless times a day.

All this, and the lack of the Windows 8 apps that I love so dearly, leave me with the Nexus 7 and very little will to actually touch it, cause I KNOW it'll be an unpleasant experience of trying to find any kind of apps that I actually like.

Okay, sure there's Flipboard that I love, but gosh that's not enough. To me, Windows Store wins in every aspect other than gaming. And, overall the smoothness and chicness of Windows 8 or Windows Phone 8 OS and apps feel like stepping into heaven after the chaotic, cluttered mess of Android.

[EinoAnttila]

God, wrong article. How do I remove this?

[EinoAnttila]

Quote

Yet Microsoft's new “the touch way or the highway” philosophy shows vision and innovation, and affirms the public’s overwhelming support for touch gestures on computing hardware. No, it shows arrogance and ignorance. It "affirms" nothing, it is shoving it down peoples throats. Those without a touchscreen have to fight their way past the Touch-centric components to be able to do anything. This is why I have had a number of people come to me complaining. I have tried it and given up in frustration. And I have been in the IT field for over 20 years. People need to have the option of shutting off the Touch-only portions if they do not have a touch screen.

Been using Windows 8 on my 2007 MacBook since launch and I don't get how it's not usable on mouse or touchpad. Works perfect with me at least. Everytime I'm using OSX on my Mac, I feel like I'm "working", when I'm using Windows 8, it feels like I'm enjoying my life. This is true, and why I only use my MacBook Pro if I have to work. As soon as I get home, I switch onto my Windows 8 MacBook.

From what I've fiddled with the touch screen machines in stores, I wouldn't even say using the OS with a mouse is any harder. You've got right click for menus like on every os, and you've got the Windows-button as your home button.

There's the left corner where the Start menu used to be, well now it's 2 millimeters to south but the button is still there. Closing an app by "taking it away" has become second nature to me quickly, and now I notice trying to drag the apps away on OSX too, of course to much dissappointment.

The beauty of dragging the app along with it's screen away and getting right back to Start is the fact that you don't have to wait around for the app/program to slowly close. You're right back where you want and can just type a letter on the program what you want and hit enter. If it's a program/app you use usually, Windows 8 remembers it and orders the search that way.

For example, for Notepad I just hit "n" on the Start screen and hit enter. Lightning fast and efficent and I've already copy pasted anything I wanted, right there on my desktop. I hit the Windows button on my desktop, and I'm right back on my Start. OR I hit the basic alt-tab and I'm right back here typing this message.

Touch-screen would only slow me down here and it all works perfect on mouse and keyboard once you know you can just type right on the Start Screen and do anything that way. I think this is something people don't know and something that really sets Windows 8 apart from say, OSX, in how quick it actually is to get around with things. In OSX all this would be ridiculously slow to do if I didn't have everything on my Dock. Which I don't want, neither in Windows 8's taskbar, cause small icons and clutter is bad.

[RobC0oqz]

For small tablets and laptops that you can hold or lie flat I can understand the efficiency of a touch UI. (I bought one of the first Sony touchscreen digital cameras years a go and it was (and still is) a joy to use.) The same cannot be said for a 22+ inch touchscreen monitor that is sitting two feet away. I can imagine a new class of repetitive stress injury and fatigue from a days worth of swiping with an outstretched arm. I imagine lawsuits are not far behind.