[Fatesrider]

Quote

Mozilla shouldn't have a leg to stand on. Anymore, their browser just doesn't compare to others as Chrome and Internet Explorer, my preferences in order.

It's entirely preferences based. You have a preference for Chrome. I found it stark and unnecessarily difficult to find settings and options. IE is a security nightmare and is likely to remain so. Safari was so hackable it put mud on Apple's face - twice - at various black hat conventions. We each have experiences that differ leading us to our choices.

And least you think I'm some noob at computers, I'm not. I have a Computer Science degree. I've run my own IT business for 15 years specializing in home/soho environments. . My experience with computers goes back before they HAD an Internet. Adam computers, TRS-80's and Commodore 64's with 300 baud modems. My first "real" computer was a self-built 386 with 256 K of RAM and a 10 MB hard drive running Windows 3.0. I've used every major browser from AOL's 1.0 IE skin and Netscape all the way through Safari and Chrome. I have an "If it works, don't fix it" approach to upgrades (assuming security isn't an issue) and don't go racing off to buy or try the latest shiny thing to come out. My experience tells me people will find what works for them if something isn't working. I expect that's what you did to arrive where you are at regarding your browser preferences.

If you like a browser, great. No reason to dis other people's choices. My personal choice is Firefox. This is because I have tried the others and found them wanting for me. I have my Firefox highly modified for my needs (the add-ons I use are unique to Firefox so far) and I can lock it down to be as secure as I want it to be. To retrain another browser with a decade of preferences, histories (not browsing, settings) and other customizations would be both time-consuming and tedious.

I imagine the same issues apply to you. You have what works for you and that's fine. I do NOT get the concept of dissing other people's choices when it comes to computers/programs (aside from cost-effectiveness assuming that's a consideration) and offer my clients who want choices a wide variety. Otherwise I recommend Firefox because I find it behaves better on average than the others, and I use it.

Your mileage may vary.

And by the way, most people, according to several sites tracking computer usage as opposed to downloads, use Chrome. IE is second. Firefox is third. They're third is probably because of user disaffection with Firefox's former rapid release cycle - which has been quietly scaled way back - and is when even I started looking at Chrome (And decided it wouldn't work for me for the reasons already mentioned). Firefox usage percentage shows a decline at the point they started doing that. I stuck with Firefox, but tweaked the update to manual and now update on my schedule. Now that Rapid Release is scaled back, and the EU is clamping down on Microsoft, I expect its market share to increase again.

The bottom line is that it's all in what works for the individual end user. Your wife finds Firefox works for her. Chrome and IE work for you. Firefox works for me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But don't dis the choices of others just because YOU have your own preferences.

[WinTard]

WiscoKid, on 31 October 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

I have been a Firefox user for almost a decade and have never liked using IE. However, a choice screen to select a browser is nuts. If a person who uses a computer does not know that there are other browsers available -- what limited universe do they reside? Are they hermits or cave dwellers? For years I have tried to convince my friends the virtues of Firefox and Chrome over IE -- but they still are stuck in the IE web world. I have no problem with Microsoft bundling whatever programs they desire in their OS, but they must make sure similar programs are allowed to be installed at the discretion of the computer user.

Even the most stupid, ignorant and clueless of users always had the possibility of bowsing anywhere on the Internet and download some kind of browser under Windows, that isn't Microsoft IE. But if they are really that stupid to start with, why would they concern themselves with any other browsers? And how would these hopelessly stupid people download anything in the first place if there were not a default IE browser included in every Windows to start with?

I think only stupid people complain. They obviously can't do anything else. They are too stupid for that.

~~~~~~~~~~
Ignorance is trainable – Stupidity is terminal.
~ Jerry Fleming

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do.
~ Bertrand Russell

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.
~ Dale Carnegie, 1888-1955

[WinTard]

Fatesrider, on 31 October 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

Quote

Mozilla shouldn't have a leg to stand on. Anymore, their browser just doesn't compare to others as Chrome and Internet Explorer, my preferences in order.

It's entirely preferences based. You have a preference for Chrome. I found it stark and unnecessarily difficult to find settings and options. IE is a security nightmare and is likely to remain so. Safari was so hackable it put mud on Apple's face - twice - at various black hat conventions. We each have experiences that differ leading us to our choices.

And least you think I'm some noob at computers, I'm not. I have a Computer Science degree. I've run my own IT business for 15 years specializing in home/soho environments. . My experience with computers goes back before they HAD an Internet. Adam computers, TRS-80's and Commodore 64's with 300 baud modems. My first "real" computer was a self-built 386 with 256 K of RAM and a 10 MB hard drive running Windows 3.0. I've used every major browser from AOL's 1.0 IE skin and Netscape all the way through Safari and Chrome. I have an "If it works, don't fix it" approach to upgrades (assuming security isn't an issue) and don't go racing off to buy or try the latest shiny thing to come out. My experience tells me people will find what works for them if something isn't working. I expect that's what you did to arrive where you are at regarding your browser preferences.

If you like a browser, great. No reason to dis other people's choices. My personal choice is Firefox. This is because I have tried the others and found them wanting for me. I have my Firefox highly modified for my needs (the add-ons I use are unique to Firefox so far) and I can lock it down to be as secure as I want it to be. To retrain another browser with a decade of preferences, histories (not browsing, settings) and other customizations would be both time-consuming and tedious.

I imagine the same issues apply to you. You have what works for you and that's fine. I do NOT get the concept of dissing other people's choices when it comes to computers/programs (aside from cost-effectiveness assuming that's a consideration) and offer my clients who want choices a wide variety. Otherwise I recommend Firefox because I find it behaves better on average than the others, and I use it.

Your mileage may vary.

And by the way, most people, according to several sites tracking computer usage as opposed to downloads, use Chrome. IE is second. Firefox is third. They're third is probably because of user disaffection with Firefox's former rapid release cycle - which has been quietly scaled way back - and is when even I started looking at Chrome (And decided it wouldn't work for me for the reasons already mentioned). Firefox usage percentage shows a decline at the point they started doing that. I stuck with Firefox, but tweaked the update to manual and now update on my schedule. Now that Rapid Release is scaled back, and the EU is clamping down on Microsoft, I expect its market share to increase again.

The bottom line is that it's all in what works for the individual end user. Your wife finds Firefox works for her. Chrome and IE work for you. Firefox works for me. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But don't dis the choices of others just because YOU have your own preferences.

The EU is trying to fix their chronic humongous deficit problems, one fine at a time.

Career bureaucrats and politicians... Eech!

~~~~~~~~~~
Bureaucrats cut through red tape, lengthwise.
{Obviously not a parasite}

If you have ten thousand regulations, you destroy all respect for the law.
~ Winston Churchill

People will sleep better not knowing how their sausage and politics are made.
~ Bismarck

Bureaucrats write memoranda both because they appear to be busy when they are writing and because the memos, once written, immediately become proof that they were busy.
~ Charles Peters

[chosenson]

Quote

They can blame Microsoft until they are blue in the face, but the real reason for their woes is Google Chrome.

It does seem that Mozilla's woes are linked to Chrome, but I don't believe that is exactly it.

I was a long time Firefox user. They never improved their browsers handling of memory and flash. Because of this I moved to Chrome. Seldom ever do I have flash based sites loading up memory, crashing, or acting in any poor manner since the switch.

Mozilla, I miss using Firefox. It was a good browser, but now, you have earned your place.

Is it complacency on Mozilla's part? Did Mozilla lose their good devs? Is Mozilla having trouble adapting to the new tech? I don't know what their reason is, but they lost me (this whole office now uses Chrome).

[IllegalOpcode]

Your arguments about a car having a radio by the same manufacture is moot.
What the radio plays is not controlled by the car manufacturer. Microsoft was altering web standards with their proprietary methods in an attempt to monopolize. They also barred other companies from adding said proprietary standards to their browsers. causing web site to not display right on the other browsers. And this lead to a ruling against Microsoft for monopolizing the market (internet). When a company abuses their position they get what they deserve. If they bypassed a court ordered mandate with the service pack then they broke the law. How soon we forget.

[satansluvchild]

They REALLY should be blaming Google...Chrome users are discovering the less clunky yet still app-filled Chrome is better suited to serious surfers ;-)

[Misaki2010]

The guys from Mozilla are idiots! The loss of Firefox downloads is not due to Windows 7 Service Pack 1 but to Internet Explorer 9 and of course Internet Explorer 10 (in Windows 8)... They just don't want to admit that Internet Explorer 9 became amazingly good I've used Firefox until last year (September to be exact) when Windows 8 Developer Preview was available for download and since then I've been using only Internet Explorer... why? because it's GREAT, it's BETTER than Firefox (WAY BETTER), fast, fluid, and it looks good too It needs to be updated more often but otherwise is definitely a good choice. I doubt I will ever go back to Firefox

[synkig]

There were 12 browsers in the win7 browser choices.I hope these browsers which include all my favorite browsers will be listed in the browser choice of win8 too.
Mainly use chrome,firefox and Avant browser. Satisfied with them so far.I will keep use them in Win8.
Just tried Avant in win8 last night,works as usual.I will try chrome and firefox in win8 today.

[MK27]

WRT the car analogy, it is a bad one. If A) One car maker had 80%+ of market share, Cars were the only place stereos were used, then you would see exactly the same kind of questions being asked about how that market leverage was being used.

I have not seen any mention here yet of how for years Microsoft intentionally defied the implementation of internet standards in IE in order to create problems for browsers which did implement standards properly but had less market share. The goal of turning the internet into something with an MS only interface deserves public scrutiny, and it has mostly back fired on them and created a mess for everyone else. For years, web developers often had to write two sets of code -- one for MS IE, and one for everyone else.

The end result is that the development of the internet was probably set back five years. Consider that when you are raving about how great IE is. Here's a better analogy: a guy who claims to win races because he's a fast runner, when what he is really doing is knocking everyone else down.

[wildlinux]

Pale Moon is Firefox made to work right with Windows. I use Firefox on my Linux boxes and never have any problems and I don't personally have any Windows computer anymore. When I work on someone elses Windows computer I always put Pale Moon on it with what I consider essential Mozilla add-ons. I advise them to use Pale Moon as well. If I were using Windows I would be using Pale Moon. I have heard Water Fox is like Pale Moon but I have not tried it. There are performance issues with Firefox in Windows which is why Pale Moon and Water Fox were created. Pale Moon installs like any other program you download on machines running Windows and takes little time. You add your Mozilla Add-Ons the same way as with regular firefox.

[YellowApple]

Quote

The guys from Mozilla are idiots! The loss of Firefox downloads is not due to Windows 7 Service Pack 1 but to Internet Explorer 9 and of course Internet Explorer 10 (in Windows 8)... They just don't want to admit that Internet Explorer 9 became amazingly good I've used Firefox until last year (September to be exact) when Windows 8 Developer Preview was available for download and since then I've been using only Internet Explorer... why? because it's GREAT, it's BETTER than Firefox (WAY BETTER), fast, fluid, and it looks good too It needs to be updated more often but otherwise is definitely a good choice. I doubt I will ever go back to Firefox

Too bad it's still slow compared to Chrome

Of course, if you're a hardcore user, you'd use Lynx, which is the fastest browser out there, but unfortunately that's obsolete nowadays

[experot]

One thing I wanna notify. Just open one tab in FIREFOX and one in IE9. And see the memory usage on ram. IE9 takes 16MB and FIREFOX takes 62MB. I think it's significant difference. And IE9 gives 30fps on the games also. The only one browser on which you can play online games smoother.