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Post your comments for Tiny $57 PC is like the Raspberry Pi, but faster and fully open here

[GonzaloVC]

Very nice little piece! Soon we'll get to a full PC in a watch-size unit, like in the futuristic movies ;-)

[endarochford]

BUT - The raspberry pi has HDMI output. In fact a lot of the other minilinux boards I've seen on the market have HDMI output. The limiting factor on this board is that it only has the old VGA output. Not good at all

[arthurbas]

And you have the "Cubieboard" with hdmi and SATA http://cubieboard.org/
and also the Gooseberry
Gooseberry jams Android and overclocked CPU into Raspberry Pi rival
http://www.slashgear...rival-18239063/

[waldojim]

Raspberry Pi is where the support is. When you find the type of support for the others that the Pi has, then they may become a decent alternative.

From where I sit though, it looks like a bunch of wanna-be's playing follow the leader. The Raspberry Pi team created a powerful, tiny, inexpensive machine with a LOT of backers. They are also sold near cost. Why is everyone so concerned about alternatives from people who didn't care until they saw an opportunity to make a quick buck?

[zilog6502]

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BUT - The raspberry pi has HDMI output. In fact a lot of the other minilinux boards I've seen on the market have HDMI output. The limiting factor on this board is that it only has the old VGA output. Not good at all

Depends where you live.... I've worked in several countries recently and lived in one for the past 5 years (Ecuador) where it's almost impossible to buy a HDMI monitor, most are still VGA. Some of those countries were European and yes, I admit I was working in small towns and villages rather than cities but VGA was still mainstream.

[MattHawkinsUK]

All these little computer boards are great but they all fail to beat the Raspberry Pi. In this case it's got a name no one can pronounce and it has no HDMI output. It is also huge and more expensive. We will never hear about this board again. Bye!

[d232]

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Depends where you live....

Also depends on what you are doing. I would have to say that the HDMI is a hindrance if you're trying to build a dedicated XBMC machine but if you are building a mini single purpose server then there is no problem at all. The hardware you need depends on what you need the machine to do.

[zwheel]

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BUT - The raspberry pi has HDMI output. In fact a lot of the other minilinux boards I've seen on the market have HDMI output. The limiting factor on this board is that it only has the old VGA output. Not good at all

There are more than enough boards out there with HDMI. This is the first I have seen with VGA. It's about @#$% time! There are so many old VGA monitors out there sitting in closets, garages, etc... Now we can use them!

Why would you want to buy a multi-hundred dollar monitor to plug into a $50 or less computer? Ok, maybe if you are looking for low power consumption I can see not wanting to use an old monitor. If you are just trying to build something cheap or if your application calls for the monitor not being turned on or plugged in most of the time then having a VGA option makes a whole lot of sense.

I'm not even necessarily talking about CRTs (although people will give you those free just to get rid of them) I have four LCDs in my house which don't do HDMI, two of which are VGA ONLY. The two HDMI monitors we do have are our TVs and unlikely to become computer monitors any time soon.

[waldojim]

zwheel, on 14 November 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

There are more than enough boards out there with HDMI. This is the first I have seen with VGA. It's about @#$% time! There are so many old VGA monitors out there sitting in closets, garages, etc... Now we can use them!

Why would you want to buy a multi-hundred dollar monitor to plug into a $50 or less computer? Ok, maybe if you are looking for low power consumption I can see not wanting to use an old monitor. If you are just trying to build something cheap or if your application calls for the monitor not being turned on or plugged in most of the time then having a VGA option makes a whole lot of sense.

I'm not even necessarily talking about CRTs (although people will give you those free just to get rid of them) I have four LCDs in my house which don't do HDMI, two of which are VGA ONLY. The two HDMI monitors we do have are our TVs and unlikely to become computer monitors any time soon.

The idea of Composite and HDMI outputs on the Pi, was simple: It can plug into any TV. Most people have a TV, and you can pick them up cheaply. Obviously, the people shipping this $57 thingy, think that people are willing to waste money on an unnecessary monitor.

Monitors are a bonus.

[zwheel]

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Raspberry Pi is where the support is. When you find the type of support for the others that the Pi has, then they may become a decent alternative. From where I sit though, it looks like a bunch of wanna-be's playing follow the leader. The Raspberry Pi team created a powerful, tiny, inexpensive machine with a LOT of backers. They are also sold near cost. Why is everyone so concerned about alternatives from people who didn't care until they saw an opportunity to make a quick buck?

Personally, I like it b/c it gives me an option to use some of the old VGA monitors I have lying around.

For the hobbyist single board computer market in general competition and choice are good things. Do we want RasPi to become what Microsoft was 7 or so years ago?

How is this, or are any of the other boards RasPi wannabes? If we are talking price nobody is in RasPi's category yet so they aren't even the same thing. If we are talking substance RasPi wasn't first to market anyway.

PC/104s have been around just about forever although they are more marketed towards industrial rather than hobbyist use. For the rest fo us Beagleboard was out years before anybody ever heard of Raspi. And then there is Gumstix.. they are a category of their own though as they are way smaller than RasPi even.

RasPi has all the support? There's quite a bit out there for Beagleboard too. Does it matter though? I see lot's of forums where people link to Beagleboard information when talking about RasPi (for example). They are ARM boards running Linux (usually Debian variants or else Android). How much different can it be? I'll just buy the cheapest one with the I/O and power I need for what I want to do. At least part of the time that is going to be the 'Xino because I don't have to buy a new monitor for it.

[zwheel]

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The idea of Composite and HDMI outputs on the Pi, was simple: It can plug into any TV. Most people have a TV, and you can pick them up cheaply. Obviously, the people shipping this $57 thingy, think that people are willing to waste money on an unnecessary monitor. Monitors are a bonus.

For some applications that is great! I'm certainly not knocking it.

What's the maximum resolution on that composite output though? Even if you just wanted a text terminal, how big does a font have to be at that resolution to be readable? How much text of that size can you fit? Now imagine an actual Desktop... Ugh!

You talk about buying a new monitor for the $57 thingy... I think you underestimate the number of old VGA monitors out there. They may not be people's primary monitors any more (in first world cities) but then... how many of those people will make their RasPi or 'Xino their primary computer? This is a good way to use the old monitor in your closet if you have one. If not.. you probably know somebody who does and doesn't want to pay someone to recycle it. Failing all that, $5 - $10 at a thrift store and you are good to go.

[waldojim]

zwheel, on 14 November 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

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The idea of Composite and HDMI outputs on the Pi, was simple: It can plug into any TV. Most people have a TV, and you can pick them up cheaply. Obviously, the people shipping this $57 thingy, think that people are willing to waste money on an unnecessary monitor. Monitors are a bonus.

For some applications that is great! I'm certainly not knocking it.

What's the maximum resolution on that composite output though? Even if you just wanted a text terminal, how big does a font have to be at that resolution to be readable? How much text of that size can you fit? Now imagine an actual Desktop... Ugh!

You talk about buying a new monitor for the $57 thingy... I think you underestimate the number of old VGA monitors out there. They may not be people's primary monitors any more (in first world cities) but then... how many of those people will make their RasPi or 'Xino their primary computer? This is a good way to use the old monitor in your closet if you have one. If not.. you probably know somebody who does and doesn't want to pay someone to recycle it. Failing all that, $5 - $10 at a thrift store and you are good to go.

I think you are overestimating the number of monitors on the market compared to TV's.

I won't say composite is perfect, or even great. But it is usable when all else fails. Monitors are not available everywhere for those prices. Think beyond first world countries for a few minutes.

[zwheel]

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I think you are overestimating the number of monitors on the market compared to TV's. I won't say composite is perfect, or even great. But it is usable when all else fails. Monitors are not available everywhere for those prices. Think beyond first world countries for a few minutes.

Honestly I wouldn't know anything about what kinds of displays are available to people in third world countries. If I had to guess HDMI would be pretty low on the list but I don't know about VGA vs Composite. Certainly TVs would be more likely to be purchased originally... then again, if the area in question happens to be one of the places that old first-world computer equipment gets shipped they might be swimming in VGA CRTs.

That doesn't really affect my argument though. My point wasn't against Composite, HDMI, RasPi or anything else. My point is that it is good we now have an option to buy that we can use with VGA. Composite is no more a substitute for VGA than VGA is for composite. Surely I'm not the only one with old VGA equipment lying around! If it's scarce where you are then you live in a very different part of the world than I and we can just buy them here, thanks!

People shouldn't get so negative about the fact that a board now exists that does VGA. I'm not saying that it should replace the existing boards on the market, I am saying that it should compliment them nicely filling a significant empty area in the market.

Maybe one would argue that there should be a one-size fit's all board that has all 3? Then there is just one board to support. I suspect the extra circuitry would make the board larger, more power hungry and more expensive. That seems to be the conclusion the RasPi people reached, they actually did try to include all 3 in their design process but ended up dropping VGA.

BTW... before someone says it... HDMI to VGA converters cost more than the RasPi itself so no, that is not a useful option IMHO.

[waldojim]

zwheel, on 14 November 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

Personally, I like it b/c it gives me an option to use some of the old VGA monitors I have lying around.

For the hobbyist single board computer market in general competition and choice are good things. Do we want RasPi to become what Microsoft was 7 or so years ago?

How is this, or are any of the other boards RasPi wannabes? If we are talking price nobody is in RasPi's category yet so they aren't even the same thing. If we are talking substance RasPi wasn't first to market anyway.

Prior to the Pi, all of the ARM based SBC's were well over the $100 mark. Out of the range of people like me, willing to buy just for the sake of having a new toy to play with. Not saying I am cheap, only that I don't sped $100 on a toy without having a set plan for it. The fact is, until the Pi came along, manufacturers cared nothing about the Linux community, and certainly did not want a "cheap" product on the market.

The Pi has more development going for it, than I have seen on any other platform - save the Beagle. Then again, the Beagle also costs considerably more. Microsoft and the Pi are totally different. I am honestly surprised you even made such a leap.

On one hand, you have an open source platform (everything is released now as I recall) with completely open software. On the other hand, you have Microsoft's complete lock in, on the software side alone. No hardware in the PC market.

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PC/104s have been around just about forever although they are more marketed towards industrial rather than hobbyist use. For the rest fo us Beagleboard was out years before anybody ever heard of Raspi. And then there is Gumstix.. they are a category of their own though as they are way smaller than RasPi even.

RasPi has all the support? There's quite a bit out there for Beagleboard too. Does it matter though? I see lot's of forums where people link to Beagleboard information when talking about RasPi (for example). They are ARM boards running Linux (usually Debian variants or else Android). How much different can it be? I'll just buy the cheapest one with the I/O and power I need for what I want to do. At least part of the time that is going to be the 'Xino because I don't have to buy a new monitor for it.

PC/104s are also prohibitively expensive. Is that something you choose to ignore, or are you that desperate to make a case? The Pi is the first SBC meant for hobbyists under the $100 mark. Making it the easiest to label a learning tool.

The Beagle and the Pi do have a lot in common. Thankfully, it is enough that support can be shared to an extent. However, there is quite a bit different between boards. You might want to research that part.

[edis]

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...didn't care until they saw an opportunity to make a quick buck?

Now, are you confident, that Olimex is not in this all longer, than Raspberry Pi Foundation even is? Are you good enough to play a judge, as you seem to not show signs of being aware of the company and its products at all?

[kf4nxs]

There is one thing no one has mentioned, the uses of the boards. Some have touched on it, but no real uses. I was looking heavily at Raspi, now after reading this and seeing the option for touch screen, it looks to fill the bill for a good platform for a car pc. Be able to run music from an external drive, run navigation, watch videos, pretty much what ever you would want. Now if only the software folks would step up for some good stuff for what I want it would be the perfect platform for the vehicle. Oh, in case your wondering, I do search and rescue and track teams with windows right now, but a good linux distro and this setup would be cool.

Just imagine watching a little blip on a map in one window, and watching Batman in another, all while listening to music. Because at 1 GHz it should be able to run all that at the same time. Hell it wasnt to long ago laptops hit 1 GHZ, and with the 2 tb drives out now, you could store alot of info into a small package.

Just my 2 cents