[brainout]

RELEVANCE

There is a lot of confusion over whether Windows 8 and 7, can run DOS programs. The question matters a bunch, since most CNC machines, and almost all of the financial sector and most local governments plus the Federal Government, still use DOS in the US. Overseas, the usage is even higher. DOS emulation company Taos Computing (exdos.com) estimates that 25-35 million users worldwide, need to be able to run DOS on a 64-bit architecture, so developed its emulator for that purpose. The problem is in the 64-bit architecture, irrespective of the OS. However, you can still run DOS with a 32-bit OS, for most functions. Most, not all.

Problem is, most computers sold through retail outlets today are on 64-bit OS; it's very difficult to find 32-bit. So your office's DOS word processing and spreadsheet programs won't run, and their files maybe can't be read (lack of backwards-compatibility varies by vendor, product). Kids under age 30 -- except maybe ardent vintage gamers -- understimate or don't know, the importance of DOS for their parents and grandparents. But anyone over age 40 has been struggling with the problem of Windows' successive abandonment of DOS code, in NT hybridization (which is how Windows got started, and still some DOS is used in its code).

So it becomes important to keep older machines in good repair. Happily, there are a number of forums and websites and even kids, who like the older hardware and software, so you can usually find parts. And of course, those parts are now more expensive.

Solving DOS compatibility

The most important thing you can do, is KEEP any XP or prior, machine. Some but not all DOS programs can run well, but need to be tweaked by means of right-clicking on the program name in Windows (including Win7), and setting parameters per the tabs you'll see there for screen, font, compatibility, layout. These settings vastly change the utility of the program, and in some cases make it operate faster and better, than it did under say a 486 DOS VI machine. Of course, the wrong settings will make the program inoperative, so you need to experiment.

So, just like XP, Windows 7 comes in two architectures, 64-bit and 32-bit. In the former, most DOS programs cannot run unless you buy a DOS emulator from Taos Computing (which is cheap, only $100 per machine), or (maybe) use the free DOSBOX, which was designed for 16-bit vintage DOS games. MS claims you can run XP Mode in 64-bit Windows: but if you query on the internet you'll find a lot of complaints that XP Mode won't work.

So that leaves 32-bit. Windows 8 is 32-bit. Windows 8 Pro is 64-bit. So if you bought a cheap netbook or laptop from Walmart, you likely have 64-bit, and DOS won't run on it, unless you buy or get the emulators above.

If you're still on Windows 7 32-bit, or are on XP 32-bit and are thinking of upgrading to Win7 32-bit, chances are your DOS programs will run. But there are some limitations.

Test case here illustrating them, is DOS Lotus 1-2-3, version 2.01, with the Funk Software add-in Worksheet Utilities. Both programs make hardware calls which require a high degree of DOS compatibility, and both programs date back to the 1980's, so we're talking real DOS. Here's the lowdown, based on live testing with my own Dell Optiplex 780 with 32-bit Win7 Pro, Core 2 Duo, 3.0 Ghz, 2.99 GHz:

* Can't go fullscreen in Win7 (can go fullscreen, in XP). That suggests you can't use Win8 either, if you want fullscreen. So at least the GRAPH function of Lotus 1-2-3, won't work.

* you have to create a batch file to run Lotus 1-2-3, and (so far as I can tell) you have to run the program from your root drive, because the program makes its calls TO the root drive. Here's the batch program you create in Notepad or other plain-text editor:

cd\
cd\lotus
123.exe
cd\
exit

* Delete the 'exit' if you want the window to stay open as a DOS window, after you're done with the program. Save the file with a '.bat' extension. (Note: unlike XP, you can close the window with your mouse, afterwards.)

* After creating that file, you have to right click on the file name, select 'Properties (in Win7, Vista, XP) and do some more tweaking. The Properties dialogue box SHOULD show the following tabs: General, Shortcut, Options, Font, Layout, Colors, Compatibility. Each of these needs editing.

GENERAL tab: select Normal Window or even Maximized (though it won't actually maximize). Also in Win7, click on Advanced, and 'Run as administrator'.

OPTIONS tab: select Large cursor. You can always change it, but since the program really won't run fullscreen, you'll want the cursor to be oversized, since the window will be smaller and will shrink everything in it.

FONT tab: this is what Windows uses to select the screen size, despite all the other settings (which you also still need to set). In Win7, you have three types of fonts to set. Click on the 'Bold' option, as that makes the text easier to read.

For True Type 'Consolas' font (which results in a more square window), pick a font size between 18 and 24. More than that will be bigger than your entire monitor screen, when you actually run the program (looks are deceiving, you have to test the results with trial and error).

For True Type Lucida Console font, use the same 18-24 font size range, but the screen will be much shallower and wider, so you can afford to decrease font size to 18-20. 28 is really too wide, on a widescreen monitor (1366x768 pixels). But maybe you'll like it, or your monitor will accommodate that size. Mine wouldn't.

For Raster fonts, 12 x 16 is the optimal setting. ON some (i.e., Dell Ultrasharp) monitors, Raster fonts look best. On my Toshiba 19L4200U TV monitor, the Lucida Consule setting is clearest.

LAYOUT tab: Pick a window size width no greater than 85, and height no greater than 38. Then test to see if it's too big. If yes, you'll also need to decrease font size, as well as the Layout size, here. Experiment, because you can't gauge the right mix of window and font size, just by the diagrams in the dialogue box.

COLORS tab: Lotus 1-2-3 makes hardware calls on the screen, so whatever you put in this tab, it will ignore. But other DOS programs might 'obey' the colors you set here. If you remember the old Norton Utilities days of setting Mode, etc., that's what this is.

COMPATIBILITY tab: You can't set resolution to override at 640x480. The setting is either ignored, or your monitor will freak out. For Lotus 1-2-3, in Win 7 Pro I didn't need to turn on the 'compatibility mode'. It made no difference in the results. (You dn't need it in XP, either.)

* Finally, you have to find the program itself, then right-click on the program name and edit its Properties. Here, that program is 123.exe, and it has to be in your root directory. (All the program files Lotus will use, must be there; at least one wk1 file must be in C:\123 at startup. I'm sure this can be tweaked, but I'm using the default Lotus program settings for a typical installation.)

Will return and edit more later, when the PC World post editor is working again. It's been glitchy all day.

This post has been edited by brainout: 10 November 2012 - 06:23 PM

[brainout]

Continuation of Topic post
(sorry, the PC World editor was so wonky, I had to stop for awhile).
* Finally, you have to find the program itself, then right-click on the program name and edit its Properties. Here, that program is 123.exe, and it has to be in your root directory. (All the program files Lotus will use, must be there; at least one wk1 file must be in C:\123 at startup. I'm sure this can be tweaked, but I'm using the default Lotus program settings for a typical installation.) Relevant Properties tabs are Program, Font, Memory, Screen, Misc, Compatibility.

Program tab: Specify normal or maximized window, results will be the same. Check 'close on exit', if you want that. Else, you'll just be in the command console.
Font tab: same parameters as for the bat file in the first topic post, but to get them you need to pick 'Both font types' and 13x22. Not sure 'Auto' will work properly in Win7.
Memory tab: Total conventional memory=Auto, Initial Environment=Auto, Expanded Memory=5120 (the next-lower increment may be too small for large calc-intensive worksheets), Extended memory=Auto (Lotus doesn't use XMS or HMA, but some DOS programs do), DPMI=Auto. Long ago I read that Lotus benefits from multiple math co-processors, but there's no setting for them here.
Screen tab: window (full screen won't work in Win7, but will work in XP).
Misc tab: leave the defaults unless you have problems (i.e., disable the hotkeys if your program uses them differently). You can copy and paste with a mouse.
Compatibility tab: you can't run in 640x480 resolution, in Win7. Compatibility mode setting doesn't seem to matter, at least with my machines.

Calculation is swift. My Lotus 1-2-3 templates calculate IRC Section 412, 417, 430 commutations tables, so require at least three iterations to develop the present values of annuity rates. I can't do this in Excel with the same ease and auditability as in old DOS Lotus. Point is, that in the newer hardware this old program is almost instantaneous, whereas even my 486 with a co-processor would require maybe 4 minutes, to do the post Pension Protection Act rates. So that means when an accountant is sitting with his client to figure out deductions at year end, I can just feed the census into my template and give instant answers. No software in my business can do that.

Surely there are other fields where this kind of swiftness is useful and used, so having the ability to still use vital DOS programs is important. There may be other limitations with Win7 32-bit than the fullscreen limit noted here; some machines might run better than others, too. I picked the Optiplex 780 because it's 64-bit architecture. (Presumably my HP 6400 Intel Xeon workstation, which is also 64-bit hardware, would have the same limitation, but it's on XP Pro 32-bit.)

Finally, a note about processor speed and RAM. Whether I'm using 1.6 GHz, 1 GB RAM on my little Acer Aspire One to run this DOS window in XP, or my 3.4 GHz Pentium 4 with 1.5 GB RAM, or my Intel Xeon 2.66 GHz 4 GB RAM quad-core or (now) the Optiplex at 3 GHz Core 2 Duo and 4 GB RAM, the speed is little changed. (That shouldn't be true, but it is; I can only figure that the Acer has fewer resources, i.e., no CD, only three USB ports.) The processor speed matters more than RAM, if you must pick between the two, for most Windows programs, especially for video rendering (i.e., the Xeon takes longer to surf or convert the format of the same video using the same program, versus the Pentium; that was a surprising disappointment).

This post has been edited by brainout: 10 November 2012 - 09:25 PM

[brainout]

UPDATE: I just tested Multimate Advantage II, which was a very popular DOS wp program among Fortune 500 companies in the 1980's. It works too, but cannot be run fullscreen. So the problem: if your hardware supports 64-bit (and most do), then maybe you can't run a DOS program in fullscreen, even on 32-bit Win7 Pro. The error message I get is 'cannot run fullscreen' with '16-bit program' in the error header. So if fullscreen is important to you, stay with XP 32-bit system for such programs. Tweak the Properties of the primary exe file's Font Program and Screen tabs so that you are running the program in a window, even if you say 'maximized.' The actual screen size will be determined by the font selection and font you choose, as noted above for Lotus tweaking.

DOS WordPerfect 5.1 is still used in many businesses, esp. in law offices. I didn't test that, yet.

I haven't yet tested other hardware calls like printing, printing to screen, echo, graphics, etc.

This post has been edited by brainout: 17 November 2012 - 06:10 AM

[brainout]

VISTA USERS can do the same thing as here described for Win7, but you only get a choice of Raster or Lucida Fonts. Use Lucida Console 20 bold.