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Lenovo Power Manager

#1 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:17 PM

So, I recently installed the Lenovo power manager so I can limit the battery charge (to help the lifespan long-term): start charging at 65%, charge to 80%. However, the problem is that it is hellbent on putting garbage in the windows Power Options - I deleted all the plans it added, and it put them back after rebooting or restarting the utility. (it also added links to lenovo's site) Is there ANY way to get around this?

Also, I notice the charge limits DO apply when the laptop is off. (yes!) Will uninstalling the utility keep things that way in Windows? (since I assume this is somewhat hardware related)

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 18 November 2012 - 12:18 PM

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#2 User is offline   waldojim 

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:28 PM

How do you think it works? Magic? No, it has to replace the Windows default power plans.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -- Isaac Asimov

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#3 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 05:00 PM

Fact: those power plans have NOTHING doing with the full charge capacity, as Windows lacks the ability to deal with that. AND - I am limiting the charge capacity WITHOUT actually using those plans. How do I know? Because I've tested it. Troll harder.
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#4 User is offline   mjd420nova 

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:05 PM

LBD: Those Lenovo desktop/background programs they have are best left OFF. They added 8 different processes for just three items. A dynamic brightness, an eye distance thingy and their audio controller. I just don't turn them on and let WIN7 do it for me. I have the same identical machines, one desktop and the other a laptop. The i3 CPU, 4GB RAM and a 500GB drive. Can get rid of any of the Lenovo stuff as it resides in the BIOS and can't skip those items there.
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#5 User is offline   waldojim 

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:45 PM

View Postmjd420nova, on 18 November 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

LBD: Those Lenovo desktop/background programs they have are best left OFF. They added 8 different processes for just three items. A dynamic brightness, an eye distance thingy and their audio controller. I just don't turn them on and let WIN7 do it for me. I have the same identical machines, one desktop and the other a laptop. The i3 CPU, 4GB RAM and a 500GB drive. Can get rid of any of the Lenovo stuff as it resides in the BIOS and can't skip those items there.

Actually, MJD, the Lenovo power management software is best left in place. Namely because it allows control over otherwise untouchable options. That is how I am able to squeak 10 hours out of my W520, and 6 out of the X100.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -- Isaac Asimov

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#6 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

The problem is that there is no way to get rid of that part. This is like the crap phone manufacturers add, which ONLY discourages me from buying their device. (Notice how I bought an unlocked Nexus, which doesn't have any of that garbage?) Basically, the ONLY thing I want the utility to do is limit the charge capacity. Is there any way I can prevent programs from modifying those plans? (deny write permissions to everything, for instance)

In the lenovo settings, it simply doesn't show any of their power plans as being set. The battery charge setting is completely independent of that.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 18 November 2012 - 09:24 PM

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#7 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 09:26 PM

View Postwaldojim, on 18 November 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

View Postmjd420nova, on 18 November 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

LBD: Those Lenovo desktop/background programs they have are best left OFF. They added 8 different processes for just three items. A dynamic brightness, an eye distance thingy and their audio controller. I just don't turn them on and let WIN7 do it for me. I have the same identical machines, one desktop and the other a laptop. The i3 CPU, 4GB RAM and a 500GB drive. Can get rid of any of the Lenovo stuff as it resides in the BIOS and can't skip those items there.

Actually, MJD, the Lenovo power management software is best left in place. Namely because it allows control over otherwise untouchable options. That is how I am able to squeak 10 hours out of my W520, and 6 out of the X100.

What options in particular? As far as I can tell, it's just a different interface for the settings built into Windows.
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#8 User is offline   waldojim 

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:36 PM

I will take screen shots later, but eh short and skinny of it, is that you get low level controls over specific hardware. Including turbo boost, fan control (to an extent), pcie devices and so on. Lenovo thinkpads are not set it and forget it machines. They were engineered to be tweakable to your needs.

If you need a lazy machine, get something else. I will take a bet you would still end up whining about it though.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -- Isaac Asimov

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#9 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:11 AM

I could've sworn those PCIe and performance settings are available in the Windows power options. And doesn't Windows already let you choose between passive/active cooling where possible? I need to check though.

The main thing is that I ONLY want the utility's ability to limit charge thresholds, nothing else. (This is why I didn't have it installed until now.) Since it must be saving it to the BIOS somehow or some memory in the battery, will that work without the utility in Windows? (considering it works when off)
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#10 User is offline   waldojim 

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:29 AM

View PostLiveBrianD, on 19 November 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

I could've sworn those PCIe and performance settings are available in the Windows power options. And doesn't Windows already let you choose between passive/active cooling where possible? I need to check though.

The main thing is that I ONLY want the utility's ability to limit charge thresholds, nothing else. (This is why I didn't have it installed until now.) Since it must be saving it to the BIOS somehow or some memory in the battery, will that work without the utility in Windows? (considering it works when off)

Passive and active? Yes. That option is there, and does not work. Try it once, run it in "passive" mode, and watch an HD movie, see how passive it really is.

With the Lenovo drivers, the laptop will throttle rather than fire up the fan - at least it does on mine. It does not save anything to the BIOS or the battery.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -- Isaac Asimov

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#11 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:12 AM

With the charge capacity, it has to be doing things not in Windows (likely BIOS or battery) - how else does it do that when the laptop is off?
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#12 User is offline   waldojim 

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:35 AM

View PostLiveBrianD, on 19 November 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

With the charge capacity, it has to be doing things not in Windows (likely BIOS or battery) - how else does it do that when the laptop is off?

2 things.
1. Your battery has its own firmware, all of them do. The battery reports to part 2.
2. The laptop has an advanced configuration and power interface that handles the power and charging settings.

The ACPI works both with Windows and independently. Interestingly, it is this controller that kills Dell laptops when using non-dell power supplies.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -- Isaac Asimov

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#13 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 10:58 AM

I suppose the ACPI is also what, for instance, prevented you from actually running the w520 off the 65w x100e adapter, right?
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#14 User is offline   waldojim 

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:21 PM

View PostLiveBrianD, on 19 November 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

I suppose the ACPI is also what, for instance, prevented you from actually running the w520 off the 65w x100e adapter, right?

Yep.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -- Isaac Asimov

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#15 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 02:31 PM

Anyway, back to the original question - is there any way to limit the charge without the software and all the bloat that comes with it?
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#16 User is offline   waldojim 

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:00 PM

The answer was already there. The software is making the needed changes to apply itself against the Windows power management. You do need the software to hit the massive runtimes.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -- Isaac Asimov

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#17 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 04:26 PM

But what I mean is, since the software is saving the setting to something lower level (ACPI perhaps?) to it can limit the charge when the machine is off, can that do the job when Windows IS running?

I'm not actually using the rest of the features in it, and since I don't use the machine on the battery much, I feel running that piece of bloat all the time isn't worth it (could they have possibly found a way to make it run slower?). Long-term battery wear is the one thing I'm concerned about.
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#18 User is offline   waldojim 

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:03 PM

Don't worry about the battery wear. You are more likely to get a new machine long before that battery is dead. Otherwise, sorry but you are stuck using the Lenovo battery utilities.

I never had a problem with the power management on my X100 (apart from when I wanted to make a change)...

This post has been edited by waldojim: 21 November 2012 - 05:04 PM

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -- Isaac Asimov

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#19 User is offline   LiveBrianD 

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 05:12 PM

I'm not worried about it being dead (about 13-14% wear now, after almost 1.5 years, without limiting the charge). I'm just worried about having less capacity later, if I actually need to use all of it. (which isn't all that often, admittedly) The thing is, I'll almost certainly get a new machine 2 years from now, when I got to college, but I'll probably want to keep the x120e around anyway as a spare machine. On a side note, a friend's HP laptop (I think 2 years old) apparently has 75% battery wear on it, and Windows is telling him to consider replacing the battery. (seriously) Granted, that's a cheap consumer HP, and I don't think he's calibrated the battery, but that's still a bit nasty.

Say, how old is the x100e now, and how much wear do you have on it? How often do you use the battery?
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#20 User is offline   waldojim 

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:26 PM

View PostLiveBrianD, on 21 November 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

I'm not worried about it being dead (about 13-14% wear now, after almost 1.5 years, without limiting the charge). I'm just worried about having less capacity later, if I actually need to use all of it. (which isn't all that often, admittedly) The thing is, I'll almost certainly get a new machine 2 years from now, when I got to college, but I'll probably want to keep the x120e around anyway as a spare machine. On a side note, a friend's HP laptop (I think 2 years old) apparently has 75% battery wear on it, and Windows is telling him to consider replacing the battery. (seriously) Granted, that's a cheap consumer HP, and I don't think he's calibrated the battery, but that's still a bit nasty.

Say, how old is the x100e now, and how much wear do you have on it? How often do you use the battery?

I don't use it at all any more due to a mishap with some mountain dew... It took forever to clean it out. Sadly, one of the very important surface clips (for the display of course) broke when trying to put it back together (very fragile btw) and I never got around to replacing that idiot clip.

A 13% wear after 1 year + isn't bad. I wouldn't worry too much. Statistically speaking, that is on the low end. As for the HP, remember that they run intentionally hot from the factory, hence the short battery life.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" -- Isaac Asimov

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