[dima777]

Hello,

I wonder if you can help me to build the perfect PC setup for the following task:

I am going to perform daily financial market analysis on multiple instruments using Excel (large workbooks around 300 and 500 mbs), Matlab and Automation software. The price will be loaded into Excel, the results would be fed into Matlab to create charts (this sequence will be repeated many times). I plan to sell the resultant analysis at my website for a set monthly subscription – so this can be considered a production workstation. The total process would take 5-7 hours daily. I need this process to run as error-free as possible – absolutely predictably on autopilot. So I am not planning to over-clock the CPU.

I am deciding between a workstation built on Intel Core i7-3930K or the one built on single Intel Xeon E5-2630. These CPUs are roughly the same in price (same number of cores, different speed though) with the I7 being much faster one. But I am more concerned with reliability and stability of this setup. Do you think the ECC memory can help eliminate system crashes when the analysis job is running? I need to be able to connect this PC remotely to initiate the analysis jobs as well. I am also thinking of Intel Core i7-3930K which is very fast but not sure about its stability for long-duration number crunching sessions (it can overheat if run at full speed for many hours?).

Please let me know what you think,

[waldojim]

Intel CPU's are designed to protect themselves. Rather than overheat, the CPU will throttle, reduce the speed and keep working. If you use an aftermarket cooler, that will likely never happen. Truth be told, I doubt you would end up throttling on the stock cooler either.

ECC memory won't necessarily protect against application crashes. It will prevent any dying memory modules from affecting the results.

Here is what I want to give you for an answer as to what should be done:
The i7 is a very powerful, very stable CPU on its own. It can very easily handle the task you are requesting from it. The motherboard it sits on, and the ram chosen to go with it will mean far more to the outcome than the CPU itself. A cheap motherboard, or cheap ram could easily kill the stability of the entire system.

If you are building the i7 machine yourself, I could easily say - yes this will work.

If you are NOT building the i7, then you are probably better off with the Xeon based machine. If for no other reason, than the parts requirements are far more stringent. Even then, I wouldn't trust just any vendor.

[dima777]

thank you for your reply.....yes the i7 parts are more accesssible.....but surely if I went with the xeon I would not compromise on teh motherboard and the memory.....I am just concerned if i7 will be able to run the continuous number crunchinh session lasting months? I might not power-off the computer for months! you think XEON can handle such workload? and I7?

[waldojim]

dima777, on 24 November 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

thank you for your reply.....yes the i7 parts are more accesssible.....but surely if I went with the xeon I would not compromise on teh motherboard and the memory.....I am just concerned if i7 will be able to run the continuous number crunchinh session lasting months? I might not power-off the computer for months! you think XEON can handle such workload? and I7?

My Media Center runs 24/7. It handles 4 different servers (Web, SQL, File, and Streaming) including on-the-fly video re-compression. It gets restarted once a month for Windows updates. I run a RAID 5 array in there, and use top quality parts. EVGA motherboard, with Corsair power supply, and GSkill ram. That machine uses an i5 750.

The question really comes down to where you get the machine from.

If you buy an HP, a Dell, or similar machine, then go with the Xeon - that is the only way you will get quality parts to go with the CPU. If you build your own, or go to a custom builder, then get quality parts, and get the i7.

Again, the CPU will not be the issue here, the surrounding hardware will be.

[dima777]

thank you for your reply....you think it will be substantially harder to assemble a xeon based machine than a i7 based machine on my own ?

[waldojim]

dima777, on 24 November 2012 - 01:51 PM, said:

thank you for your reply....you think it will be substantially harder to assemble a xeon based machine than a i7 based machine on my own ?

It wouldn't be any harder to assemble, it would might be a bit harder to locate all the parts.

[LiveBrianD]

One of my friends happens to have a Xeon CPU with an enthusiast 1156 board, so I doubt it's that hard to find the parts.

[waldojim]

It is not wise using a Xeon chip on a consumer grade board.

[LiveBrianD]

I don't think he's running server stuff in it though - he just wanted something particularly powerful for file compression, video editing, etc. (overkill if you ask me)

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 24 November 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

I don't think he's running server stuff in it though - he just wanted something particularly powerful for file compression, video editing, etc. (overkill if you ask me)

The op will not be using it for that, so this is a mis-direction we can quickly avoid.

[dima777]

waldojim, on 24 November 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 24 November 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

I don't think he's running server stuff in it though - he just wanted something particularly powerful for file compression, video editing, etc. (overkill if you ask me)

The op will not be using it for that, so this is a mis-direction we can quickly avoid.

well I have 50 currency pairs to analyse daily - 4 time frames each - each time frame shoudl be analyzed using a few different large excel files - around 300 mbs on average....do you think this process can be speeded up if I break each of the 4 time frames into different virtual machines and place the analysis pipeline into them?.....you think a 4 core E3 1275 V2 might be enough for it???

[waldojim]

dima777, on 25 November 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

waldojim, on 24 November 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 24 November 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

I don't think he's running server stuff in it though - he just wanted something particularly powerful for file compression, video editing, etc. (overkill if you ask me)

The op will not be using it for that, so this is a mis-direction we can quickly avoid.

well I have 50 currency pairs to analyse daily - 4 time frames each - each time frame shoudl be analyzed using a few different large excel files - around 300 mbs on average....do you think this process can be speeded up if I break each of the 4 time frames into different virtual machines and place the analysis pipeline into them?.....you think a 4 core E3 1275 V2 might be enough for it???

Virtual machines will add their own overhead to the process and slow it down. If your server is threading the workloads well enough, it would also be redundant.
The Xeon will certainly do the trick, though the i7 will be quicker.

[dima777]

thank you for your reply.....I also thought - if I use the Intel Xeon E3-1275 V2 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) - it is rougthly close to i7 3930 but has only 4 cores but still supports teh ECC memory....do you think it I set up 4 VMs each running a single 3.5GHz core - each running excel Matlab and automate by Network Automation - and leave the rest of the virtual cores to handle the load on the system - that can pull off?)

[waldojim]

dima777, on 25 November 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

thank you for your reply.....I also thought - if I use the Intel Xeon E3-1275 V2 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) - it is rougthly close to i7 3930 but has only 4 cores but still supports teh ECC memory....do you think it I set up 4 VMs each running a single 3.5GHz core - each running excel Matlab and automate by Network Automation - and leave the rest of the virtual cores to handle the load on the system - that can pull off?)

The virtual cores are not complete cores. Basically, they allow work loads to be scheduled more efficiently. Can the system handle the workload itself? Yes. I cannot make any claims one way or another on how quickly it can manage these workloads.

[dima777]

I can do this analysis in sequence or parallelize it through 4 vms.......I will think more about adding the VMS - with excel 2003 each running in one WinXP VM - this can be really fast to parallelize....I will combine the analytics from the separate VMS in the host machine.....the individual analysis could be done in excel 2003 but aggregating analysis and post-production woudl be done in excel 2010 which allows much more than the 2 gb of memory...software errors are likely but mos dependent on excel and matlab and vmware...I will test this setup and if it is suitable for daily work will stick with it - if no - will do all in sequence on the host machine...I am stuck with excel for now as taking it to an executable code would add a year to the project....do you think EXCEL 2010 on 4 cores will run faster than EXCEL 2003 on one core?

[waldojim]

Running multiple copies through VM would certainly allow you more parallel workloads. As long as you supply the machine with enough ram, everything should work out nicely that way.

VMware itself should not affect your work in the slightest. I would honestly be more concerned with how Excel handles the math than anything else. It has a long history of unusual math problems.

[dima777]

I wonder if you have tried running your i73930k for long periods of time..like 10 hours at the maximum load....I wonder how it behaved? lets say for 8-10 hours in a row....at 95% (no over-clocking) - did you see any hints of instability in its performance?
Thanks!

[waldojim]

In my case I run an i5 750 at home, and an i7 in the laptop. Both have run for 8 hour continues loads for break in stress testing, and with video re-compression. In fact, I just let my i5 run about 20 hours of video compression last night, never an error - and that is with a decent overclock even.

As I stated before, the surrounding components are going to be the problem. With the EVGA board, and Corsair power supply, the i5 750 will take any work-load I throw at it for weeks on end. Same with the i7 2620 based laptop - as it uses a Lenovo business motherboard, and was designed to maintain a decent workload.

[dima777]

thank you for your generous attention!)

I need to introduce one more element into the equation...sorry to have left it out before....I need to spend quite some time outside of the Europe and USA - in eth Western Europe - where the server grade parts take a week to arrive - a week is intolerable time to wait for any part in case the setup fails....I will be providing the analysis each day and it needs to be updated on a daily basis...new signals can orccur any time...

for a server-based example, I have been recommended the followign setup

CPU: Xeon E3 1275 V2
MOBO ASUS P8C WS
Kingstong RAM 16GB DDR3 1600 ECC Unbuff. (4x4gb)

the cpu and motehrboard are more or less easily available here but the RAM 16GB DDR3 1600 ECC Unbuff which is only accepted by this setup needs to be ordered and will take from 7 to 10 days to arrive.....I have not foudn otehr unuffered ECC on teh market now...

I mean if any part of this seup fails - Especially memory - I will need to replace it...but only within one weeks time....


if i go with the i7 3930k based setup - I shoudl be able to get any kind of the memory in no time at all from teh local PC shops...The XEON+ECC+SERVER mobo looks very reliable but if anythign beraks down I stand the chance of replacing the broken part much faster with the 3930k based setup....considering the power of 3930k I mitgh be able to crunch all data in a matter of 5 o6 hours so no need for 24/7 operation for now....

I will be doign maintenance myself at first - do you think a server-based setup mitghbe harder to maintain than a desctop based setup?

thanks!)

[waldojim]

Ok, The motherboard itself is probably a no-go. While it supports the CPU in question, it seems to have flaky memory support. If you can get your hands on the P8B instead, you may be better off. I am not seeing the same memory incompatibility reports.

If you wanted a quality board/ram for the i7 route, then either the ASUS P9X79 PRO or the EVGA X79 FTW. Personally I prefer EVGA boards, as they are designed in house, and have an excellent team maintaining them. Asus does have an excellent reputation though. Both of those would be decent solutions. For ram, if you roll with any of the major companies, GSkill, Corsair, Patriot, or Crucial for example, you get quality ram with a life time warranty.

When you build your machine, take the time to put it trough a 24 hour burn in test to verify everything is stable. The maintenance itself will be about the same no matter the platform, the only issue would be acquiring parts. Desktop parts are much easier to find locally for the most part.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 29 November 2012 - 03:42 PM