[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 08 December 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

deepsand, on 08 December 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

Does that mean that you eschew all telephone service? If not, why Verizon but not others?

Mainly Verizon in particular, due to crap like this and http://lifehacker.co...lphone-activity

I have T-Mobile cell service right now. (as far as I know, they aren't as bad with this kind of stuff)

As bad? can you define not as bad in the context of the situation? Verizon tracks cellular movement (which btw, Apple, Google, ATT and others have already admitted to doing), but allows you to decide how that information to be used.

Since T-Mobile hasn't bothered saying anything to you, do you simply ASSUME that they are not tracking you? Do you have evidence otherwise? Do you have the option to OPT-OUT if they are?

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 08 December 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

As bad? can you define not as bad in the context of the situation? Verizon tracks cellular movement (which btw, Apple, Google, ATT and others have already admitted to doing), but allows you to decide how that information to be used.

Since T-Mobile hasn't bothered saying anything to you, do you simply ASSUME that they are not tracking you? Do you have evidence otherwise? Do you have the option to OPT-OUT if they are?

The only thing I've found on T-Mobile is Carrier IQ, which is NOT involved with marketing. I don't like the idea of it, but then again, they don't get to modify the software on my unlocked Nexus so it's not an issue for me.

Gee... go with the carrier that charges the most and has to be TOLD NOT to get the hell out of the cookie jar, or go with the one that I have no evidence had their hands in the jar to begin with?

Oh, and what do you have to say about this with Verizon? http://arstechnica.c...keting-forever/ (hint: the fact that they keep doing this crap and I feel like moving the rest of my family off them soon is not a coincidence)

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 08 December 2012 - 10:25 PM

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 08 December 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

The only thing I've found on T-Mobile is Carrier IQ, which is NOT involved with marketing. I don't like the idea of it, but then again, they don't get to modify the software on my unlocked Nexus so it's not an issue for me.

Gee... go with the carrier that charges the most and has to be TOLD NOT to get the hell out of the cookie jar, or go with the one that I have no evidence had their hands in the jar to begin with?

Oh, and what do you have to say about this with Verizon? http://arstechnica.c...keting-forever/ (hint: the fact that they keep doing this crap and I feel like moving the rest of my family off them soon is not a coincidence)

First, if you honestly think that T-Mobile isn't tracking your phone, you are too naive to keep commenting. Trust this one statement if nothing else: You have to be tracked. That is a fact. The cellular network MUST track the phone. Any additional use is just added income. There is also more than one way to track your phone. T-Mobile is not doing well in the market, and as such if you don't think they have considered alternate revenue streams, you are again, too naive to keep discussing this topic.

Also, FYI, Verizon hasn't done squat with my Samsung Galaxy Nexus either.

As for your fear-mongering link at the end:

Quote

Because the program allows marketers to reach customers directly, Verizon Selects is an opt-in program.

This is not opt out, it is a "Do you want this service?", to which you can very easily reply with a NO and be done with it... Again, good job with the troll-type fear-mongering though.

EDIT 2: Oh yes, and it is also quite obvious you have no proof that T-Mobile isn't capturing data for 3rd party use... You might want to look into that before you continue spouting off.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 09 December 2012 - 01:14 AM

[oldschoolh4ck3r]

Common sense: ASK the viewers what ads they'd like to see. Don't just intrude on their privacy under the guise of 'helping' them!

Verizon has the audicity to file for a patent in which it can use to blatantly invade our privacy and make money doing so. And I'm sure there's others backing this (FBI, military, NSA, big pharma, big agri, insurance companies, ...)

[deepsand]

oldschoolh4ck3r, on 09 December 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

Common sense: ASK the viewers what ads they'd like to see.

Common sense?

Have you any experience in marketing?

oldschoolh4ck3r, on 09 December 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

Don't just intrude on their privacy under the guise of 'helping' them!

Verizon has the audicity to file for a patent in which it can use to blatantly invade our privacy and make money doing so.

It's not invasive if the viewer voluntarily participates.

oldschoolh4ck3r, on 09 December 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

And I'm sure there's others backing this (FBI, military, NSA, big pharma, big agri, insurance companies, ...)

Backing what? Just what interest might the "FBI, military, NSA, big pharma, big agri, insurance companies, ...) have in dynamically controlling the real-time presentation of advertising based on the TV viewer's activities of the moment?

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 09 December 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 08 December 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

The only thing I've found on T-Mobile is Carrier IQ, which is NOT involved with marketing. I don't like the idea of it, but then again, they don't get to modify the software on my unlocked Nexus so it's not an issue for me.

Gee... go with the carrier that charges the most and has to be TOLD NOT to get the hell out of the cookie jar, or go with the one that I have no evidence had their hands in the jar to begin with?

Oh, and what do you have to say about this with Verizon? http://arstechnica.c...keting-forever/ (hint: the fact that they keep doing this crap and I feel like moving the rest of my family off them soon is not a coincidence)

First, if you honestly think that T-Mobile isn't tracking your phone, you are too naive to keep commenting. Trust this one statement if nothing else: You have to be tracked. That is a fact. The cellular network MUST track the phone. Any additional use is just added income. There is also more than one way to track your phone. T-Mobile is not doing well in the market, and as such if you don't think they have considered alternate revenue streams, you are again, too naive to keep discussing this topic.

Also, FYI, Verizon hasn't done squat with my Samsung Galaxy Nexus either.

As for your fear-mongering link at the end:

Quote

Because the program allows marketers to reach customers directly, Verizon Selects is an opt-in program.

This is not opt out, it is a "Do you want this service?", to which you can very easily reply with a NO and be done with it... Again, good job with the troll-type fear-mongering though.

EDIT 2: Oh yes, and it is also quite obvious you have no proof that T-Mobile isn't capturing data for 3rd party use... You might want to look into that before you continue spouting off.

I didn't even know you had a Galaxy Nexus, but anyway, the lack of carrier crap in my case had been nothing but helpful. For instance, I'm typing this with Swype right not, which you won't have for a while due to the messed up updates. (a handy feature, I might add) And, you won't have the lock screen widgets for a while either. (another useful feature, particularly for the camera) Hey, i welcome cool useful features being added later. And for that matter, who knows what they're doing to the updates before deploying then, particularly involving privacy? I wouldn't write off the possibility, knowing them. And if you think this is OK in the name of network security, would you be OK with your home ISP having to approve every device you connect to their network, and have to approve the OS you use and the updates you install, for that reason? (with a 3 month lag minimum) I wouldn't.


Now, I'm not saying T-Mobile, or any carrier for that matter, isn't tracking. However, Verizon has shown a vested interest in doing so for MARKETING purposes, and I don't like that one bit. Add in much more expensive service than the competitors in most cases, and I'm REALLY intolerant of crap.


Oh, and what do you say about the inability to get out of that program later? Or the opt-out program I mentioned above? Or for that matter, the intent behind the patent mentioned in the article we're commenting on here? Sounds like you have a vested interest in supporting them or something...

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 09 December 2012 - 09:16 AM

[deepsand]

LiveBrianD, on 09 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

Now, I'm not saying T-Mobile, or any carrier for that matter, isn't tracking. However, Verizon has shown a vested interest in doing so for MARKETING purposes, ...

The fact is that, regardless of whether or not they've publicly so stated, every carrier has that same vested interest. Silence does not evidence anything to the contrary.

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 09 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

I didn't even know you had a Galaxy Nexus, but anyway, the lack of carrier crap in my case had been nothing but helpful. For instance, I'm typing this with Swype right not, which you won't have for a while due to the messed up updates. (a handy feature, I might add) And, you won't have the lock screen widgets for a while either. (another useful feature, particularly for the camera) Hey, i welcome cool useful features being added later. And for that matter, who knows what they're doing to the updates before deploying then, particularly involving privacy? I wouldn't write off the possibility, knowing them. And if you think this is OK in the name of network security, would you be OK with your home ISP having to approve every device you connect to their network, and have to approve the OS you use and the updates you install, for that reason? (with a 3 month lag minimum) I wouldn't.

I love it when you spout off without thinking. Yes I do have Swype, Yes I do have lock widgets. And no, you apparently don't know what you are talking about. It is funny that you are hell bent on pointing out that Verizon may be invading your privacy in ways they don't tell you about, and yet want to defend T-Mobile based on they haven't told you anything about them. Bit of a double standard?

Quote

Now, I'm not saying T-Mobile, or any carrier for that matter, isn't tracking. However, Verizon has shown a vested interest in doing so for MARKETING purposes, and I don't like that one bit. Add in much more expensive service than the competitors in most cases, and I'm REALLY intolerant of crap.


Oh, and what do you say about the inability to get out of that program later? Or the opt-out program I mentioned above? Or for that matter, the intent behind the patent mentioned in the article we're commenting on here? Sounds like you have a vested interest in supporting them or something...

They ALL have an interest in making more money from their customers. They are in business to make money. Can you show me any point where Tmobile is a give-away program? How about a Non-Profit entity?

You haven't mentioned any opt-out program, with the exception of cell tracking. Be happy Verizon allows you to opt out. For all you know, T-Mobile is tracking you, selling that information, and doesn't have the balls to tell you. Which is worse? Being up front and honest, with a means to get out of the tracking, or not telling you anything?

The only interest I have right now, is getting you to open your eyes. If you want to go through life blinded by some fallacy of loyalty, that defines you as a trolling fan-boy, no different than blind Apple followers.

[LiveBrianD]

I am talking about those features being built into the OS. And unless you cheated and installed a ROM or have access to the not released update internally, you don't have 4.2, as Verizon hasn't released it yet. Meanwhile, I installed it OTA a few days after it was released.

And if you've actually read ANY of my posts involving Verizon lately, you would see why I don't like them. More cost, screwed with updates (I notice you don't have an answer to my point about an ISP doing that... hmm...), poorer coverage for me in quite a few places, etc.

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 09 December 2012 - 11:08 AM

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 09 December 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I am talking about those features being built into the OS. And unless you cheated and installed a ROM or have access to the not released update internally, you don't have 4.2, as Verizon hasn't released it yet. Meanwhile, I installed it OTA a few days after it was released.

And if you've actually read ANY of my posts involving Verizon lately, you would see why I don't like them. More cost, screwed with updates (I notice you don't have an answer to my point about an ISP doing that... hmm...), poorer coverage for me in quite a few places, etc.

Cheated? The Nexus is open for that very reason. I can choose any rom I want. You sound like a spoiled child: "You can't do that! Those rules only apply to me!"

I don't care about why you don't like Verizon. What I am talking about, and you are ignoring, is your ascertation that T-Mobile somehow doesn't track you. As of yet, you are using the defense "He admitted it, look that way!" Instead of "here is proof that T-Mobile is not".

This last post of yours clearly demonstrates you don't have a position to work from apart from attacking others.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 09 December 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 09 December 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

I am talking about those features being built into the OS. And unless you cheated and installed a ROM or have access to the not released update internally, you don't have 4.2, as Verizon hasn't released it yet. Meanwhile, I installed it OTA a few days after it was released.

And if you've actually read ANY of my posts involving Verizon lately, you would see why I don't like them. More cost, screwed with updates (I notice you don't have an answer to my point about an ISP doing that... hmm...), poorer coverage for me in quite a few places, etc.

Cheated? The Nexus is open for that very reason. I can choose any rom I want. You sound like a spoiled child: "You can't do that! Those rules only apply to me!"

I don't care about why you don't like Verizon. What I am talking about, and you are ignoring, is your ascertation that T-Mobile somehow doesn't track you. As of yet, you are using the defense "He admitted it, look that way!" Instead of "here is proof that T-Mobile is not".

This last post of yours clearly demonstrates you don't have a position to work from apart from attacking others.

No, my point is that on Verizon, you have to go through all that trouble because Verizon's screwing up your software. (and didn't YOU claim that them screwing up the software and delaying updates is for network stability reasons? If that's so important, why are you using custom ROMs on their network? Perhaps a bit hypocritical?) Meanwhile, all I had to do was hit the 'Restart & Install' button when the update came out. Theoretically (using reasoning that YOU used before), the ROMs aren't as stable as the official updates, right? Which is easier?

Not to mention that, as I keep saying, who knows what Verizon's doing to the software? At least on a GSM carrier, I can bring my own damn phone with software that they didn't get to mess up. Not to mention that T-Mobile's implemention of Carrier IQ is (as of most of the info I can find) weaker than the others. (I say that because I don't know if they're still using it.)

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 09 December 2012 - 12:14 PM

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 09 December 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

No, my point is that on Verizon, you have to go through all that trouble because Verizon's screwing up your software. (and didn't YOU claim that them screwing up the software and delaying updates is for network stability reasons? If that's so important, why are you using custom ROMs on their network? Perhaps a bit hypocritical?) Meanwhile, all I had to do was hit the 'Restart & Install' button when the update came out. Theoretically (using reasoning that YOU used before), the ROMs aren't as stable as the official updates, right? Which is easier?

Not to mention that, as I keep saying, who knows what Verizon's doing to the software? At least on a GSM carrier, I can bring my own damn phone with software that they didn't get to mess up. Not to mention that T-Mobile's implemention of Carrier IQ is (as of most of the info I can find) weaker than the others. (I say that because I don't know if they're still using it.)

Actually, what I have said, was that the delays were caused by their testing. There is no Verizon software on my Nexus. You would know this if you were interested in learning the truth rather than making it up.

And I am going to quit posting at all now, until you find your way back to the topic. Keep this up, and you will find yourself ignored.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 09 December 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 09 December 2012 - 12:14 PM, said:

No, my point is that on Verizon, you have to go through all that trouble because Verizon's screwing up your software. (and didn't YOU claim that them screwing up the software and delaying updates is for network stability reasons? If that's so important, why are you using custom ROMs on their network? Perhaps a bit hypocritical?) Meanwhile, all I had to do was hit the 'Restart & Install' button when the update came out. Theoretically (using reasoning that YOU used before), the ROMs aren't as stable as the official updates, right? Which is easier?

Not to mention that, as I keep saying, who knows what Verizon's doing to the software? At least on a GSM carrier, I can bring my own damn phone with software that they didn't get to mess up. Not to mention that T-Mobile's implemention of Carrier IQ is (as of most of the info I can find) weaker than the others. (I say that because I don't know if they're still using it.)

Actually, what I have said, was that the delays were caused by their testing. There is no Verizon software on my Nexus. You would know this if you were interested in learning the truth rather than making it up.

And I am going to quit posting at all now, until you find your way back to the topic. Keep this up, and you will find yourself ignored.

And didn't you say that them testing the software, causing them to delay it a lot compared to the unlocked versions of phones, was for network stability? And that supposedly, that's so important?

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 09 December 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

And didn't you say that them testing the software, causing them to delay it a lot compared to the unlocked versions of phones, was for network stability? And that supposedly, that's so important?

Ok, you are now on the ignore list. Rather than answer direct questions, or staying on topic, you are more interested in trolling to other topics that are completely unrelated.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 09 December 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 09 December 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

And didn't you say that them testing the software, causing them to delay it a lot compared to the unlocked versions of phones, was for network stability? And that supposedly, that's so important?

Ok, you are now on the ignore list. Rather than answer direct questions, or staying on topic, you are more interested in trolling to other topics that are completely unrelated.

Funny how trolls accuse others of trolling...

Sent from a location that's a Verizon DEAD zone but has weak HSPA+ and 3/4 bars of EDGE on T-Mobile... (this is on the edge of town, bordering open space)

This post has been edited by LiveBrianD: 09 December 2012 - 04:19 PM

[LiveBrianD]

LiveBrianD, on 09 December 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

waldojim, on 09 December 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 09 December 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

And didn't you say that them testing the software, causing them to delay it a lot compared to the unlocked versions of phones, was for network stability? And that supposedly, that's so important?

Ok, you are now on the ignore list. Rather than answer direct questions, or staying on topic, you are more interested in trolling to other topics that are completely unrelated.

Funny how trolls accuse others of trolling...

Sent from a location that's a Verizon DEAD zone but has weak HSPA+ and 3/4 bars of EDGE on T-Mobile... (this is on the edge of town, bordering open space)

And you know, another thing - by your logic, it's perfectly fine for Ubuntu to invade your privacy and have amazon search results in the OS because it can be disabled, right? (on a related note, I will not be updating Ubuntu until they get rid of that)

[RobertaS]

Shame, I was planning to stand in front of my TV naked to see what adverts they thought were appropriate

[deepsand]

RobertaS, on 10 December 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:

Shame, I was planning to stand in front of my TV naked to see what adverts they thought were appropriate

Not to worry; the lack of a patent is no obstacle to the development and deployment of such a device.