[MacNewton]

Quote

"It makes sense when you consider that user interface experts — and lots of regular people — have judged the touch-centric Windows 8 Start Screen to be tough for PC users working with keyboards and mice to use. While using the modern tiles-based UI is a snap on touchscreen devices, it requires too much cursor hovering, right-clicking, and guessing for people working on traditional PCs. While Microsoft has succeeded in offering a good OS for tablets — if not so much for PCs — how the company prices its hardware is particularly relevant, especially if it wants to succeed in moving to a tablet-based computing model." Could you please enlighten me ,an less your goal is to spread lies on windows 8? I am using windows 8 on a non-touch laptop. The touch-pad is no more difficult for me to use than it was in windows 7. So please, if you are going to make this spread this claim, please explain exactly how the mouse or touch-pad is more difficult to use. My wife has a imac and a MBP which I used a lot also. I move the cursor to the left edge of the screen on them to expose the menu of programs, just like I do in windows 8 to expose the charm bar? When or where did you criticized Apple for this this?

[johnstead2012]

Makes sense or not make senses customers will still not to buy it.

[toothie007]

Quote

Makes sense or not make senses customers will still not to buy it.

I and a few others I know purchased it. I don't know what that makes us. We have all installed it and are loving it. Whatever you call us, one thing is certain, our sense of self is not tied to what OS we use or what phone we use. I can tell you that much.

[MacNewton]

Your wife is the lucky one in your family.

PC security can get very confusing. Read this article "Antivirus on Windows 8: Looking at Your Options" posted on PCWorld.

A PC user requires to be much more aware of their environment. If they don't set their security up correctly they can pay the price. Don't you agree?

[jazzy007]

Quote

There is no question that Windows 8 is much harder for people to use. It is inconsistent, and ignores over a decade of Windows UI rules. Users are forced to learn entirely new ways to print, save documents, change programs, etc., but none of what they learn will be applicable in the "legacy" interface. Yet, despite calling it a legacy interface, even Microsoft is refusing to make their Office app a Windows 8 style app. Can you imagine how bad Office will become if it became a full screen app which doesn't allow multiple resizeable windows? So even Microsoft will be continuing to develop dozens of programs that do one thing in one interface, and another thing in the other interface. Microsoft should have been just a tiny bit more like Apple in creating their interface. Be a Communist dictator like Apple. Apple locks down their experience for all users, tell their users which program to use, removes flash for their users' "benefit" and basically dictate everything the users can do. There is only one way to do things in the OS and one or two hardware to choose from. This is why I think Apple will continue to do great.

Leftfiedl, it seems you are speaking without knowing or trying Surface RT and Surface Pro coming this January.

First, Microsoft Office is not an App. It's a full powerful program. So when you hit for example Word, or Excel in Suface RT it takes you to the desktop to the familiar Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Notes you have always use before.

All new laptop that comes out with Windows 8 and Pro, is the same as the old laptop where you buy, install and use Office. Nothing has change here.

Now, on Surface RT, only Apps that comes from the Windows store are allow. But, if Office can run on the ARM chip, then eventually some full programs will be able to run on the Surface RT. But that is up to the software developer. Right now Microsoft is concentrating in Apps for Surface RT.

Now for any laptop or tablet running Intel chip, they can run any App currently available plus any full program you are using in Windows XP, Vista and 7. Any program! If it runs in Windows 7 it will run in 8.

BTW, it's not hard to use. It's just different. It take a few minutes for a enthusiast to learn, and hour for average user. To know every in and out maybe a week.

[toothie007]

Quote

Your wife is the lucky one in your family. PC security can get very confusing. Read this article "Antivirus on Windows 8: Looking at Your Options" posted on PCWorld. A PC user requires to be much more aware of their environment. If they don't set their security up correctly they can pay the price. Don't you agree?

It is not about who is the lucky one. There are programs I use for work that are not available for the MAC. My wife has machines that run windows as well. I do not have problems with virus. That said we are careful about what we do whether we are using a MAC or a windows machine, for all machines can and do get virus. Apple makes great hardware, but if I cannot use them to do what I need to do (I do not care for dual booting or using parallel), then they are limited in there use to me. If I am using work or excel or power point etc, I have no problem using a MAC. However there are things I do that I cannot do on MACs as stated above. I have nothing against Apple. I however am tired of all the media bias I see and all the miss-representations in relation to windows 8.

[toothie007]

Quote

Your wife is the lucky one in your family. PC security can get very confusing. Read this article "Antivirus on Windows 8: Looking at Your Options" posted on PCWorld. A PC user requires to be much more aware of their environment. If they don't set their security up correctly they can pay the price. Don't you agree? It is not about who is the lucky one. There are programs I use for work that are not available for the MAC. My wife has machines that run windows as well. I do not have problems with virus. That said we are careful about what we do whether we are using a MAC or a windows machine, for all machines can and do get virus. Apple makes great hardware, but if I cannot use them to do what I need to do (I do not care for dual booting or using parallel), then they are limited in there use to me. If I am using work or excel or power point etc, I have no problem using a MAC. However there are things I do that I cannot do on MACs as stated above. I have nothing against Apple. I however am tired of all the media bias I see and all the miss-representations in relation to windows 8.

I meant if I am using word ... We need an edit button on this site.

[jazzy007]

Quote

The Windows Surfaced has about the same resources as a Nexus Tablet, but the Windows O/S is much more complicated than the Android O/S. I have W7 with an i7 Processor and 6 gig of ram, so things work pretty smoothly on this computers. I had a Netbook with W7 and an Atom Processor, and 2 gig of ram which is similar to what is on a Windows Surface Tablet. The ASUS Netbook was agonizing to use with W7, but I cobbled a copy of Android 4.0.3 and ran that for the final months that i had the computer before I gave it away to a friend. It was really snappy with the Android versus W7, and that is what convinced me to get a Nexus 10 Tablet which I have been well pleased by. My friend and her children are still enjoying the Netbook with Android on it and use it for a lot of functions using Android. I told them not to boot to W7 which is available on a dual boot since they would likely be disappointed. I am sure that I am more satisfied with my Nexus 10 32G than I would have been with the Windows RT Surface.

rgeiken, you are right about the Atom chip from Intel. Just like ARM cannot run Windows 7, a Intel Atom chip might be compatible but not powerful enought to run Windows 7. It could run a little faster with Windows 8, which as been proven that it could run well.

The Nexus 10 tablet use App, not program, just like the IPad run OSi and not OS X. OS X run full programs, not Apps. Nexus 7, 10 run Android which is a light software that can only run light app not full program. Most of these program on Android are run thru the browser and needs to be connected. Want to run Google Map, you need a connection. Want to find the closes restaurant or movie? You need a connection. Very few are stand alone.

[jazzy007]

Christina DesMarais, this article is what a call "Bait and Switch". The title talks about the pricing of Surface, which people click on the link to read. Then a couple of sentence of price and then goes talking about mostly abour sale. Worst, it quote from an analisyt which so far they have been all wrong. PCWorld, please stop quoting from analyst. They have prove they know nothing. They are just pushing their agenda. Which is to push Apple stock up, now that it's sliding down. If it keeps going down, all those stocks they recomended will bring the investor to their door, which is probably happening now.

We do not know nothing about the Surface sales, only of Windows 8 which Microsoft say it sold 40 million. We might find out after the holidays and then Surface Pro kits in.

Surface might not be blowing IPad from the water. This takes time and keep in mind most tech writers are pro Apple and all their comment about Surface has been negative, especially about Metro interface. Very few writers have commented stongly on the positive side of Windows 8 and Surface. The comment on not enough apps. There is around 30,000 apps right now. Will you be able to see all 30,000? They try to nick and pick on Surface RT without looking that in a way is very superior to IPad1,2,3 and 4. First it have a USB connection. That connection open a million of possibility. You can create with it. It comes with Office 13. The only advantage the IPad 3 and 4 have it's Retina display. If many people thought the 1 and 2nd IPad were good than a Retina display is not that a big deal. I could go on and on about how much the Retina display really is, but this is just a comment section. The true is, I will love the Surface to be just a little cheaper, but like many people say about Apple products, good products cost most.

[artzy65]

Quote

Ha! The Surface will eat Apple's and Google's lunch. Just let it simmer for a while. In 2 years, one of these toy manufacturers will be in the 3rd place. In 3 years, Microsoft will be on top and there is no looking back. iPad - just a toy Android - just a toy with lots of bugs

Just a toy... that's what I bought it for... duh.

[artzy65]

Quote

I see that Microsoft's shills are out in force, pretending someone likes Windows 8 and that someone actually bothered buying the overpriced and rubbish Surface (and equally rubbish Windows Phone 8) So anyone who likes windows 8 is a MS shill? So what should we call someone who likes anything Apple? The depth of discourse one gets on these comment sites is truly astonishing.

Solution: Don't respond to trolls. If you do, they win. They've gotten you to waste your time.

[Guitar1969]

Quote

Makes sense or not make senses customers will still not to buy it.

Pure ignorance. There is a pretty good sized following on developer sites and gaining momentum. I love my surface - much more powerful than an iPad and extremely customizable. Biggest problem MS has is getting people to try one and stop listening to bloggers who cast their opinions without spending any time with it. I would recommend you spend about 15 minutes using one, then develop your opinion unless you are so ingrained in apple's stale interface and believe they are the end all and buy whatever they put out. Let's face it, post Jobs Apple is having problems being innovators.

[Guitar1969]

Quote

The Windows Surfaced has about the same resources as a Nexus Tablet, but the Windows O/S is much more complicated than the Android O/S. I have W7 with an i7 Processor and 6 gig of ram, so things work pretty smoothly on this computers. I had a Netbook with W7 and an Atom Processor, and 2 gig of ram which is similar to what is on a Windows Surface Tablet. The ASUS Netbook was agonizing to use with W7, but I cobbled a copy of Android 4.0.3 and ran that for the final months that i had the computer before I gave it away to a friend. It was really snappy with the Android versus W7, and that is what convinced me to get a Nexus 10 Tablet which I have been well pleased by. My friend and her children are still enjoying the Netbook with Android on it and use it for a lot of functions using Android. I told them not to boot to W7 which is available on a dual boot since they would likely be disappointed. I am sure that I am more satisfied with my Nexus 10 32G than I would have been with the Windows RT Surface.

But the Surface RT is a scaled down OS like android not W7 so its pretty snappy running in the tegra 3 quad. I have no issues with performance on my Surface rt 64.My wife has a Nexus 7 and performance is about the same but much more stable than jellybean.

[johnpmeyer]

I agree with Jazzy007 that the point of the article, pricing of the surface is lost in the mist, but from what I gather an "Analyst" says that Microsoft was right to release the Surface at $499, the same as an iPad, because they charge $52 for Windows and $67 for Office and don't want to lose that revenue?

Well this non-"Analyst" has a few counter points on why I think they were wrong to release it at $499 and not near cost if not at a loss.

1) They need a strong quick adoption of Windows 8, especially the RT version because
2) They make their profit off the Windows Store where they get:
2a) $50 from every developer
2b) A percentage of each sale
2c) A percentage of ad revenue
3) At $499 one has to ask, why buy a stripped down laptop when one can get a real laptop running Windows 8 with touch for a similar price.

Point 3 is especially important if you're going to compare it to the iPad because there is no Apple laptop competing at the $499 range where as the Surface is competing with laptops as low as $200 without touch, to some $500 with touch, to those that blow it out of the water for a little more.

The only reason they released the Surface at $499 is because they felt they couldn't make it as the only hardware manufacturer out there and needed other manufacturers for their Windows 8 dreams who seem to can't or won't make a Windows 8 tablet for less than $499.

Though some of that could be because Microsoft is selling them Windows 8 RT at $52 and Office at $67 when instead they should be giving the manufacturers Windows RT with Office for free and charging like $5 to $10 for Windows 8, more for Windows 8 Pro, and $5 to $10 for Office with either Windows 8 or Pro to get the adoption rate up.

The reason for this is that a tablet running Windows RT will have a very thin profit margin, a tablet capable of running Windows 8 will have slightly more, while a tablet capable of running Windows 8 Pro will have even more profit margin.

[NVRick]

Quote

I feel the biggest problem Microsoft is having with people not wanting to upgrade in the numbers they expected is simple they m made a few too many changes from Vista, Windows 7 for the average consumer. Computer enthusiasts welcome change, thrive on change. The millions that don't live and breath the computing world don't like change-- actually one heck of a lot of people in general once they hit a certain age are adverse to anybody or thing that pushes change on them. I teach computer classes for our local Community Ed program. Almost all of my students are 40 plus. I get glazed over eyes when I try to get them excited about getting Windows 8 with a new PC. I suppose Microsoft could adjust their marketing plan to bring that demographic in to the fold, but as of now the ridiculous commercials they're running support the impression to these people that there is no need (or money to change for the sake of change. Another impression I pick up from the people in my classes is they are more than ready to jump to a tablet but once again commercials on the media they watch are not answering their concerns-- simplicity for one and 'what can these darn things do compared to a PC or laptop. Explain it in language they can relate to and I think that segment will join the parade changing to tablet computing. Until that happens the 'death' of the desktop and the laptop that's been predicted since the first tablet is nowhere near happening.

[NVRick]

At 65, I'm not exactly a spring chicken, but I don't find W8 all that intimidating. I got my wife a laptop for Christmas and got a free update to W8. After playing around with it, I find that I do like some of the features that the tiles offer and will probably upgrade my desktop which is currently using W7. Contrary to what is generally believed, I think that there are others in my age group that, like I, actually like to explore new things. Being retired, I have all the time in the world to learn how to implement a new UI.

[compnovo]

NVRick, on 17 December 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

At 65, I'm not exactly a spring chicken, but I don't find W8 all that intimidating. I got my wife a laptop for Christmas and got a free update to W8. After playing around with it, I find that I do like some of the features that the tiles offer and will probably upgrade my desktop which is currently using W7. Contrary to what is generally believed, I think that there are others in my age group that, like I, actually like to explore new things. Being retired, I have all the time in the world to learn how to implement a new UI.

I'm with you. At 62 I'm getting really tired of hearing about how "older PC users" (over 40???? --- give me a break!) are struggling with Win8. The willingness and ability (or lack of same) to deal with change has nothing to do with age.

If a person doesn't like something, just say so. I respect individual differences of opinion in all things, including computer OSs. There's no need to create stereotypes.

This post has been edited by compnovo: 17 December 2012 - 12:10 PM

[orlbuckeye]

Quote

There is no question that Windows 8 is much harder for people to use. It is inconsistent, and ignores over a decade of Windows UI rules. Users are forced to learn entirely new ways to print, save documents, change programs, etc., but none of what they learn will be applicable in the "legacy" interface. Yet, despite calling it a legacy interface, even Microsoft is refusing to make their Office app a Windows 8 style app. Can you imagine how bad Office will become if it became a full screen app which doesn't allow multiple resizeable windows? So even Microsoft will be continuing to develop dozens of programs that do one thing in one interface, and another thing in the other interface. Microsoft should have been just a tiny bit more like Apple in creating their interface. Be a Communist dictator like Apple. Apple locks down their experience for all users, tell their users which program to use, removes flash for their users' "benefit" and basically dictate everything the users can do. There is only one way to do things in the OS and one or two hardware to choose from. This is why I think Apple will continue to do great.

Leftfiedl, it seems you are speaking without knowing or trying Surface RT and Surface Pro coming this January.
First, Microsoft Office is not an App. It's a full powerful program. So when you hit for example Word, or Excel in Suface RT it takes you to the desktop to the familiar Word, Excel, Powerpoint and Notes you have always use before.
All new laptop that comes out with Windows 8 and Pro, is the same as the old laptop where you buy, install and use Office. Nothing has change here.
Now, on Surface RT, only Apps that comes from the Windows store are allow. But, if Office can run on the ARM chip, then eventually some full programs will be able to run on the Surface RT. But that is up to the software developer. Right now Microsoft is concentrating in Apps for Surface RT.
Now for any laptop or tablet running Intel chip, they can run any App currently available plus any full program you are using in Windows XP, Vista and 7. Any program! If it runs in Windows 7 it will run in 8.
BTW, it's not hard to use. It's just different. It take a few minutes for a enthusiast to learn, and hour for average user. To know every in and out maybe a week.

First; Being an application developer for the last 21 years I say MS Office is an application. The last 10 years we've had WIndows apps and Browser apps and now we have what I call panel apps.

Windows 8 has both a desktop and an application environment. I see the future of applixcations moving towards panel type apps that are available to download at the Windows store. The main reason is the programs are just easier ti distribute in a centralizied place where all computer users have access to.

When I use Windows 8 I'm on the desktop 95% of the time. I have shortcuts on my desktop just like I do ion my windows 7 machine. I also have shortcuts in my taskbar. One thing about Windows 8 when I download desktop applications from the internet it creates a panel and and shortcut if I check the box to add it to desktop. When I try to execute the app from a panel the desktop pops up because it is a desktop application.

Now I don't have RT but I have a touch laptop with a i3 processor. I wanted the bigger screen and a number keypad on the keyboard is why I have a laptop instead of a RT tablet.