[JamesEvens]

I did a blog on subject of gun control on 3/13/2008. You can view it at http://www.myspace.c.../blog/366536112 Excerpts from this blog entry follow.

"Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It would be extremely difficult to second guess the intent of this amendment. It clearly reads "Militia" and "free State". Militia is more than likely to be understood as a standing defense force much like what fought at the battles of Lexington and Concord. These were State Militias, men who were commissioned to preserve freedom and protect the liberties of everyday citizens. In those days a militiaman was required to own his weapon, which he maintained at personal expense. The closest analogy to those militias today is the National Guard. These troops are issued government owned weapons, which are maintained at the expense of the government and stored in government armories. Then there is the farmer. In colonial times and in the infancy of the United States much of the land was rural. Farmers hunted for wild game in order to feed their families. This is still practiced in rural America.

Gun control laws need to be stronger, while still preserving the rights of the individual.

Controlled sales of ammunition are another step in easing gun related violence. Hollow point and Teflon coated rounds do not need to be in the hands of individual citizens. The purpose of these types of ammunition is obvious to seriously wound a victim and penetrate protective body armor.

Also, the amount of ammunition someone could legally purchase or have on hand should be limited to what could reasonably be used for a stated purpose. For instance, a hunter during or just before opening the of season may want to zero scope or sights, (The military issues no more than 15 rounds for this purpose.) so maybe two boxes of ammunition might be allowed to be sold in order for the hunter to have supply for hunting. To enforce this scenario, ammunition buyers would have to return spent cartridges or shells to insure that hoarding of ammunition does not take place. This provision has an added benefit of enforcing recycling of spent ammunition."

That being said, I do not have a final solution. I do not believe that having armed guards at school allowing anyone to carry a weapon or viable solutions. If shooting started and everyone had guns it could end up like a nuclear war; unless people new where the shooting started people who were trying to get the bad guy could end up shot.

[Pyrotechnic806]

Here's a few problems with that:
1. Hollow point and other "mushrooming" rounds are by far the most popular hunting and self defense types of ammunition because when used for hunting they provide the most humane death for the animal possible, given the circumstances, and when used for self defense, they minimize risk of the round going through the aggressor and damaging your property or the property of others, not to mention that any non coated round will leave an obscene amount of fouling in the barrel. Second, with your "limited amount for a stated purpose" logic, let's say that someone invades your home and you have a gun, but you recently sighted it in, or it's the end of season and you have no ammunition, what does that leave you? At worst, dead, and at best holding an expensive club. In addition, how would you propose to enforce the recycling of spent brass? Most hunters normally leave the brass lie, and I know I have while shooting at something. And if they do collect it, then they are almost always going to be reloading it. Do you think they'll take kindly to the Feds knocking at their door and demanding their ammunition? I'm sorry, but your proposals are quite honestly unfeasable and it would only lead to the establishment of an underground market, which is something we do not need more of.

Quote

I did a blog on subject of gun control on 3/13/2008. You can view it at http://www.myspace.c.../blog/366536112 Excerpts from this blog entry follow. "Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. It would be extremely difficult to second guess the intent of this amendment. It clearly reads "Militia" and "free State". Militia is more than likely to be understood as a standing defense force much like what fought at the battles of Lexington and Concord. These were State Militias, men who were commissioned to preserve freedom and protect the liberties of everyday citizens. In those days a militiaman was required to own his weapon, which he maintained at personal expense. The closest analogy to those militias today is the National Guard. These troops are issued government owned weapons, which are maintained at the expense of the government and stored in government armories. Then there is the farmer. In colonial times and in the infancy of the United States much of the land was rural. Farmers hunted for wild game in order to feed their families. This is still practiced in rural America. Gun control laws need to be stronger, while still preserving the rights of the individual. Controlled sales of ammunition are another step in easing gun related violence. Hollow point and Teflon coated rounds do not need to be in the hands of individual citizens. The purpose of these types of ammunition is obvious to seriously wound a victim and penetrate protective body armor. Also, the amount of ammunition someone could legally purchase or have on hand should be limited to what could reasonably be used for a stated purpose. For instance, a hunter during or just before opening the of season may want to zero scope or sights, (The military issues no more than 15 rounds for this purpose.) so maybe two boxes of ammunition might be allowed to be sold in order for the hunter to have supply for hunting. To enforce this scenario, ammunition buyers would have to return spent cartridges or shells to insure that hoarding of ammunition does not take place. This provision has an added benefit of enforcing recycling of spent ammunition." That being said, I do not have a final solution. I do not believe that having armed guards at school allowing anyone to carry a weapon or viable solutions. If shooting started and everyone had guns it could end up like a nuclear war; unless people new where the shooting started people who were trying to get the bad guy could end up shot.

[JamesEvens]

Pyrotechnic806, on 01 March 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

Here's a few problems with that:
1. Hollow point and other "mushrooming" rounds are by far the most popular hunting and self defense types of ammunition because when used for hunting they provide the most humane death for the animal possible, given the circumstances, and when used for self defense, they minimize risk of the round going through the aggressor and damaging your property or the property of others, not to mention that any non coated round will leave an obscene amount of fouling in the barrel. Second, with your "limited amount for a stated purpose" logic, let's say that someone invades your home and you have a gun, but you recently sighted it in, or it's the end of season and you have no ammunition, what does that leave you? At worst, dead, and at best holding an expensive club. In addition, how would you propose to enforce the recycling of spent brass? Most hunters normally leave the brass lie, and I know I have while shooting at something. And if they do collect it, then they are almost always going to be reloading it. Do you think they'll take kindly to the Feds knocking at their door and demanding their ammunition? I'm sorry, but your proposals are quite honestly unfeasable and it would only lead to the establishment of an underground market, which is something we do not need more of.

As I stated I don't have a final solution. No I would not want an underground --Read BLACK MARKET in ammunition. If you are leaving spent brass on the ground then you are leaving money on the ground...I can currently get $1.65/lb for clean yellow brass and reloading is a great option. That way you can know the exact characteristics of your round.
I reject your OPINION about hollow point rounds as being the best for hunting, I prefer steak to hamburger. When used for self-defense, use of lethal force should be used to slow down or prevent an intruder. Your version sounds like go for the chest and take him out, after all he's in your home and shouldn't be there right.
BTW, I served in the military for 20+ years. The Oath of Enlistment provides that military members

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support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same

and while I support the right to keep and bear arms, I do not support the right to keep and bear fully automatic and assault rifle style weapons. Reading the 2nd Amendment there is no clear right for an INDIVIDUAL to have a firearm only when that individual if a member of the MILITIA.

[waldojim]

For those who need a refresher, remember that there was a reason for the second amendment. This amendment was not written with catches or clauses. It was not written with "but only the non-scary weapons" clause. It is there to keep the population armed with weapons capable of defeating their own government. We have already neutered what people may own. We have already made it nearly impossible for the government to fight back should we need to. Remember this next time you all are trying to whittle away at our rights.


"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"

-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334


"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"

-- George Washington



"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.



"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."

-- Abraham Lincoln, 4 April 1861


"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ... and include all men capable of bearing arms."

-- Senator Richard Henry Lee, 1788, on "militia" in the 2nd Amendment

[rgreen4]

When the Constitution was written, the term "militia" was used to refer to all able bodied men. It was assumed in those days, that women would not participate. There is a town in Georgia (I forget which one) which became famous several years back when they passed an ordinance requiring every adult citizen to purchase and maintain a firearm. (Similar to the law in Switzerland BTW). One would think that if what the anti-gun zealots say, that more guns equal more violence and accidents, the town would be awash with shootings every week, but no, it is a peaceful community with very little crime. On the other hand our Murder Capital is awash in shootings every weekend despite one of the toughest gun laws in the U.S.

Then you have our Doofus VP stating "Buy a shotgun, let loose with two blasts". He is so brilliant he did not realize that he was telling everyone to commit a felony, for it is illegal in most areas to do just that. Then in another interview he says to blast through the door. How did shooting through a door work out for Oscar Pistorius?

Then they say "Universal Background Check". Fine, except there is a current law prohibiting the listing of the very people you want to keep guns away from in the database, thanks to the ACLU and our feel good Socialist friends. If the Virginia Tech shooter had been listed in the database, he could not have purchased the weapons, but due to the concept of "medical privacy" and the HIPPA laws, that was not possible. Even someone under the direct care of a Psychiatrist cannot be listed unless he states an intent to harm someone. The VT shooter, the Gabby Giffords shooter, the Aurora Colorado shooter and the Sandy Hill shooter were all known to be mentally unstable, yet none were listed in the data base to keep them from acquiring weapons. (The Sandy Hill shooter stole the weapons from his mother after shooting her).

It's also ironic that an 18 year old can carry a fully automatic M-16 with dozens of high capacity magazines in the service, yet is precluding from purchasing any weapon at home until he turns 21.

And by the way, any time you see the phrase "automatic pistol" in the press, you know the writer is totally ignorant of the facts. There is no such thing, all such pistols are semi-automatic. Fully automatic weapons have been illegal in the U.S. (unless you have a restrictive Federal Firearms License) since 1934 because of the "Tommy Gun".