[WinTard]

^^ Stupid is the trolling paid for shill here! Cry wolf eh?

~~~~~~~~~~
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.
~ Winston Churchill

Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.
~ Dale Carnegie, 1888-1955

All the world is a stage.
~ Billy Shakes

[karthiq]

I think RT tabs in a smaller form factor could see greater adoption.

[jazzy007]

Quote

I agree with “MacNewton” that Steve Ballmer tends to come across as a bag of nuts, and I don’t believe he has been good for the image of Microsoft. Microsoft, as a business, needs to find a Steve Jobs or another Bill Gates. However, I would like to see the statistics showing that BILLIONS of Windows users are moving on to something else because of Windows 8. If these people are shocked by the difference between Windows 8 and Windows anything else, they are really going to be shocked when trying to move to OS X or Linux. The comment made by “Iamorpa” seems to come up from many others in one form or another on this site. Many people don’t like change. I predict many who shun Windows 8 will move from Windows XP to Windows 7, or remain with Windows 7 and wait to see what the next version of Windows will bring. Having been around the business world for many years, I don’t believe there will be any MAJOR migrations from Windows to an Apple OS. Most business, unless they are startups, are slow to just migrate from one version of Windows to another, or even from one version of user software to another. There are a number of reasons for this that I’m not going to go into here, but they are fairly obvious reasons if you think about it for awhile. I personally don’t know of any businesses going to Windows 8 at this time, but I do know of those abandoning XP in favor of Windows 7. Not much of a learning curve in that move and much of the software is surprisingly compatible or requires little modification. It’s not hard for anyone to believe Apple develops software for Windows. So does Linux and so does every individual computer programmer I know. There’s BILLIONS of Windows users out there, so why not. It’s were the money’s at, and MONEY is the root or foundation that most people and businesses make their decisions on. There was a discussion recently on one of the network business cable stations that stated that around 6.5 billion computers are used in the world, over 5 billion use Microsoft and around 100 million use Apple. They went on to say that over half the world uses Apple products. The point being made that while Microsoft, in the past, has aimed its products more towards the business world and because of that the people that use these computers in business also use them at home. Apple tends to aim their products at the general public, so many of these people have both Apple and Microsoft based products. I believe Microsoft is now trying to break into some of the Apple products world, but I don’t feel Apple has that much to be concerned about. I expect their major problem area is going to be competing with Android. At the computer side of things, Linux may be a larger threat to Apple then to Microsoft. If any business abandons Microsoft, Linux is a much cheaper direction to go to the either Apple or Microsoft.

I mostly agree with you, but what got me a little confuse is the math use here. It stated: "....around 6.5 billion computers are used in the world, over 5 billion use Microsoft and around 100 million use Apple. They went on to say that over half the world uses Apple products". So, if 6.5 billion computers user in the word, half of that will be 3.2 billion, that should be Apple products, but only 100 million use Apple. So how did they got half the world uses Apple products? I think someone is smoking to much pot.

[jazzy007]

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Hogwash! I agree with him/her. I don't work for Microsoft and have used Apple products, as an engineer, supervisor, manager, director, and retiree to the present day since 1980 and Microsoft products since 1985. Each has its pros and cons. Windows 8 is different. There are 3 things I don't like about it: 1. The shutdown button is too awkward to get at. 2. The mail doesn't support POP3. 3. The pre-release versions and enterprise version worked on my Toshiba A105-S4284 (with a T2050 processor), but the released version of Windows 8 Pro upgrade could not be installed after I paid for it on the Microsoft site. While ideal for touch screen use, it works well on traditional desktops and laptops. That's why I bought 2 OEM and 2 upgrade copies. All the crying about Windows 8 is just that - the typical whining you get from people that don't like change...if you don't like it, suck it up and shut up, or offer suggestions for improvements or apps. Windows RT needs to be expanded so it can be used on other ARM systems.

Cybershepherd, I agree with most what you said, but allow me to correct some of your statement. 1-The shutdown button is too awkward to get at. Yes, instead of going left you go right, but pretty much is the same. Windows 7 go left, click on the Windows logo and then click on the Shut down. On Windows 7, go right, Charm shows up click on setting and then click on Power off. Same amount of clicks. (the charms is not a click).

2. The mail doesn't support POP3. Yes, you can do it, because I have. You can still have a Mail client that use POP under Windows 8 (note this does not work yet under Windows RT). Microsoft own Windows Mail (part of Windows 7) is part of the Windows Essentials collection of free tools you can download from Microsoft and use the POP-only account. Windows Essentials requires .NET Framework 3.5. Windows 8 comes with version 4.5 which is not altogether backward compatible. Windows Essentials requires .NET Framework 3.5. Windows 8 comes with version 4.5 which is not altogether backward compatible. Windows 8’s Metro interface, type control and click Control Panel on the result. This will take you to the desktop interface and Control Panel. On the top right side it’s the search window. Type features and click Turn Windows features on or off. A new dialog box appears. Enter a check mark under .NET Frameworks 3.5 (includes .NET 2.0 and 3.0). Not you are ready to download and install Mail from Windows Essentials. Or if you install Outlook from Office you can also open a POP mail account.

[jazzy007]

Quote

noelrobichaud said
Putting the Start button back would not make them better Windows users. Everything that exists in Win7 is there in a different look in Win8. This is down Human Engineering and that is it! I'm not trying to be dismissive of the issues; at odds perhaps with those users that have a very difficult time managing 'change' in the windows UI, but goodness sakes it's about time we see something new and informative on the 'new' Start button a.k.a. the a Start page that has a list of apps ready to be fired up in split seconds. Finally our Windows computers run like appliances. No one screams about the ice dispenser on the fridge when it does exactly what they expect it to do. Windows has never before done exactly what we expected it to do - it's informative even before you start using it. But hey, this is my bum crack! ( read opinion ) The problem is that some of the changes make no sense - make tablet apps front and center on a platform (desktops and laptops) where no one wants them (or uses them, from the surveys I've seen), have dual UIs, hide all the basic settings in the tablet UI, etc. This would be like having an ice dispenser in your fridge, but you have to touch the fridge in a certain, unmarked place (like a touch sensor that's not distinguished from everything else) to activate it. Now why would I want that? I'm not against the idea of the metro start menu, but I am against hiding everything, showing tablet apps when I search certain things, filtering results in searches when it makes sense to do so (if you type 'Mouse', you'll probably only get results under Settings. Therefore, you still want Apps by default, even though that returns 0 results, right?), making shutdown a bit convoluted, having no visual indication as to where the start menu is, etc. By the way, waldojim, if you are reading this, don't even bother replying. You will be ignored and passed off as a shill.

LiveBrian, I am trying to understand your rant, but you rant makes no sense and the examples you mention, don't tell what bother you. You don't like Windows 8, fine. You can still buy and use Windows 7. You don't have to get all upset for Windows 8. Take a chill pill.

You want to use desktop in Windows 8 but find it too hard to find it. Well, if you use Windows 8, you know you can move and change the size of the tile. I have my destop tile as the first left one as a large tile. It have the same background picture that I put on my desktop. Easy to see and use. Once on my desktop I have all my programs (not Apps) on the screen and taskbar just like I had it on my Windows XP. (wow XP).

I use my Metro and desktop both at the same time. I open my desktop and the program I am using (like Excel) and the 1/3 of the screen use the Finance or stock market to keep an eye or use the information for my Excel work. I can have Weather, New, Facebook, Twitter, and many apps that I have install right now with my desktop open side by side. Can you do that with OS X or OSi?

Windows 8 is not difficult, on the contrary it's very easy to use and the more I use it the more I like it and find new features and ask myself why did they not invented that before.

I have seen many of your comments and all of them are negative. You are the kind of person that always see a half empty glass, always complaining.

[jazzy007]

Brad, nice article. Let me add some points to your comments. Surface RT is a direct competition to the Ipad with some extra beneficts and some issues.

First, the issues, 1- It does not have the same amount of app as the Ipad, but the amount that Surface have is growing, so in time it won't be a issue.
2- It needs those apps now.
3- There are not many programs that run under desktop.

Benefits - 1- The screen is just 2" bigger 9.6 vs 11.6.
2- USB, enought said.
3-It does have Office software like Word, Excel and Power Point.
4-It's made with the same quality and care of Apple products.
5-It tie with your phone, your laptop, desktop and Xbox.

While Microsoft can make Office works under RT, it cannot make other 3rd party software to make programs (not Apps) to run under a ARM chip. Neither have Android or Apple. It's not that Microsoft prohibit making programs that run under ARM chips, it's that how many 3rd party software developer are making their programs, not Apps, to run under ARM chips? It's like the chicken and the egg. RT needs programs beside Apps and the software developer needs a large base of RT tablets out in the market. It's not about the power of the chip (of course that will help) but compiling the software to run under RT/ARM tablet.

[JustinMitchell]

This Brad Chacos guy has put out nothing but ant-ms reviews from the get go, so I don't put much stock into what he says. I have been a huge iPad fan for some time now, but since the business usability of Windows RT seemed so much greater, I bought a Surface And The Dell XPS 10 and here are my overall impressions:

The Good:
- For the most part the interface is beautiful. Some of the apps (like USAToday) are works of art. The work well and are great to look at.
- Integrating Printing. I have printed to so many different printers it makes my head spin. Windows 8 detects printers with ease, downloads drivers and you are good to go. Printing on the iPad is the biggest cluster I have ever seen.
- Office. Most business workers need to work in office. Office is amazing on RT. And for those that use SharePoint as their company intranet and file storage infrastructure (like most of our clients) there is nothing on the iPad that comes close to the integration of office on the RT platform.
- Apps. For all of the crap MS has got on the apps, I would have to say that there are some downright impressive apps available for RT. XBox Music kicks pandora and spotify's butt and is 100% free. Slapdash is a great podcasting app that rivals iTunes in many ways. Hulu and Netflix both run flawlessly and there are many more.
- Ports. USB, HDMI nuff said


The Bad:
-Sometimes the OS gets quirky and needs a reboot. Honestly, this happens on iOS and Android as well, but it seems to happen more frequently on RT, but for now, I am chalking this up to the newness of it.
-Apps For the most part, I would say that for BUSINESS people the app situation is pretty good. There are less than a handful of apps that I wish where there that are NOT. But all of these are personal and frivolous in nature (my favorite game(s), Amazon VOD, etc.)
- Multiple Browser support... Even on my iPad, sometimes I need a different browser, for a bunch of reasons. MS needs to get their act together on this and open the API for Firefox/Chrome/etc.
- Wifi is ocassionaly odd and requires a disable re-enable. This has gotten significantly better since I ran all the O/S updates. I only have to do this 1 or two times a week.

So, it has been about 2 months now and my iPad is now collecting dust. Overall, even with it's shortcomings, I find myself using my RT device of choice (the XPS 10 from dell) way more than I ever did my iPad.

-justin

[BradChacos]

Quote

This Brad Chacos guy has put out nothing but ant-ms reviews from the get go, so I don't put much stock into what he says.

Hi Justin, thanks for the insightful feedback about the Surface RT! I just wanted to chime in and say that I'm far from anti-Microsoft: In fact, in my "Should you buy Windows 8 while it's $40?" article published the other day I detailed how glad I am I upgraded to Windows 8 on my desktop. Microsoft's taken a bold new step with the OS, though, and it's bound to have growing pains,hence what you call my "anti-ms reviews." Just a few minor tweaks here and there and Windows 8 could be *beautiful*.

Windows RT, though, has much bigger problems, as I've outlined above. They might not be dealbreakers for everyone—yourself included—but they would be for a lot of people, and it's my job to report just that.

[TechConc]

[Justin... overall, nice post. It's always nice to see individual perceptions on things. That said, I have to call BS on a few items...

JustinMitchell, on 31 January 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

- Integrating Printing. I have printed to so many different printers it makes my head spin. Windows 8 detects printers with ease, downloads drivers and you are good to go. Printing on the iPad is the biggest cluster I have ever seen.

For starters, most printers that have been produced in the last few years are Airprint capable. It works beautifully, maybe you should actually try it sometime. For older printers, all you have to do is turn on printer sharing from one PC and enable Airprinting on that PC. Not exactly a big deal. The tradeoff here is that you don't waste gigabytes of storage on crap you don't need on your thin tablet client. This is one of the reasons people are laughing at Windows on the tablet because of how much storage is wasted on just the OS footprint. Given the choice, I'd gladly choose the smaller OS footprint.

Quote

- Office. Most business workers need to work in office. Office is amazing on RT. And for those that use SharePoint as their company intranet and file storage infrastructure (like most of our clients) there is nothing on the iPad that comes close to the integration of office on the RT platform.

From my admittedly brief usage of Office on RT, I can tell you that it is not touch optimized anywhere near as well as iWork on the iPad. File compatibility isn't perfect with Office as that's not what iWork was built for. There are various Office clones available that do have file compatibility if that's what's important to you. If this were the 90's, that might actually matter.

Quote

- Apps. For all of the crap MS has got on the apps, I would have to say that there are some downright impressive apps available for RT. XBox Music kicks pandora and spotify's butt and is 100% free. Slapdash is a great podcasting app that rivals iTunes in many ways. Hulu and Netflix both run flawlessly and there are many more.
- Ports. USB, HDMI nuff said

So, basically, everything you've mentioned (software wise) at best approaches but does not exceed what's available on the iPad. That's great, but it doesn't make the case to buy a Surface RT. As for ports, that doesn't mean anything in and of itself. Camera card readers, HDMI, etc., etc. can all be done through a cable connected to the iPad's single port. If you have an AppleTV, you don't even need cables to go to the TV thanks to Airplay. It works great. Nuff said.

etc, etc...

[bikdav]

Windows RT just isn't worth the price. It should be used on tablets in the below $250 range (give Android some competition).

[Aaronzand]

Google is costing U.S. and other western countries 100s of billions of dollars!

Contrary to common belief that Google is good, Google is actually costing U.S. and other western countries 100s of billions of dollars.

In a global economy, U.S. has been losing manufacturing jobs for decades, which is bad, but is not so terrible as most manufacturing jobs are low paid. The strength of U.S. is in the high-tech sector. Clearly U.S. has been the innovation leader for many decades. Without innovation, the U.S. economy will eventually collapse.

Instead of strengthening the U.S. high-tech industry, Google is set to disrupt the U.S. high-tech industry. If it is done in a good way, then it will be beneficial to consumers and to the future of the high-tech industry. We have seen this kind of disruptions before. A most recent example is Apple. Apple's revolutionary iPhone disrupted the entire mobile phone industry. It hurt other companies in the industry, but the entire industry has moved up, with Apple being hugely rewarded.

Now, Google's disruption is totally different. If Apple's innovation is capitalism, where an innovator is rewarded, then Google's innovation is communism, where an innovator offers his innovation for free. Because Google offers Android for free, including the source code, it makes Google look like a saint, or a company of higher moral standard than Apple or Microsoft. In fact, communism only looks good on paper where people work hard only for the good of other people.

We all know what communism is in the real world - suffice to say it's worse than any worst disaster you can think of. In the high-tech industry, when a giant company like Google makes its Android operating system for free, including the source code and with little or no contract obligations attached to it, it kills any innovation in this industry (country). Today, we are seeing Microsoft is struggling with its commercial Windows Phone OS (BTW, it is much better than Android, but it is not free.), and Blackberry has a grim outlook. Even Apple is seriously threatened. Android has become the dominant OS for all smart phones.

You might think Android's dominance is good. Yes, it is good to a couple countries, mainly Asian countries like South Korean and China, but other countries suffer, these countries include U.S., Japan and most European countries. Why is that? Because Google's communism revolution rendered technology and innovation worthless, these are the only core competitiveness of U.S. and other western countries. When technology and innovations are free, countries like South Korea and China can take a free ride. Indeed the numbers are shocking:

(1) Samsung's annual revenue is close to $200 Billion, almost 4 times of Google's and 2.5 times of Microsoft's. Net income is $21.6 Billion, twice as many as Google's.

(2) China's smart phone market has skyrocketed into the number one in the world, yet Apple only has about 5% of market share, which is much lower than Samsung's. The local companies have over 50% of market share. Ironically, Google gets nothing from China, because Android is open source, the local companies don't make Google the default search engine. In fact, local companies (like Baidu) own the Chinese search market!

For many years, the US government and many other US companies have battled with the rampant piracy in China. Gradually, they have made some progress. Chinese government has implemented many laws to fight software piracy. With Google's communism revolution, now everything is lost: instead of protecting intellectual properties, an "innovative" U.S. company is declaring that all software should be free, including the source code! Suddenly, Google is telling the world that China or Chinese people are most innovative, because that's exactly their idea and what they have been doing for decades!

Without the free and open source Android, can Chinese smart phone and tablet manufacturers grow that fast? Can Samsung become the largest smart phone manufacturer in the world? If software should be free and open source, why not make other technologies also free and open source? Google’s communism act has cost U.S. 100s of billions of lost revenue. If Android is not free, Apple, Google and Microsoft will dominate the smart phone OS. The mobile OS licenses alone could create another Microsoft!

Google should be reined for its monopoly position in the search market. Without its search business, it will not be possible for it to do this harm. If a country dumps cheap products into another country, it will be sanctioned for dumping based on trade rules. Google should be stopped from doing the same (or worse, Note, Android is not only cheap, but also free and open source!)

Wake up, American people! Google is an evil that has cost U.S. 100s of billions of dollars and 100s of thousands of jobs.

------------------
About the author: Aaron is an IT consultant with over 20 years of IT experience.
Please feel free to re-post or modify.

[douglas45dfd]

presentation where the surface caught:


this guy was fired
and neither was his fault

[com2BOY]

@ aaronzand

http://dl.dropbox.co...toaaronzand.txt
It wouldn't let me add my comment because it was too long so I'll do it this way.

[W0lfman]

@TechConc and @BradChacos - I own and enjoy using my iPad 3. I also own and enjoy using my Dell XPS 10 running Windows RT using the Dell keyboard dock. However, ever since buying and using my RT device it has become much more productive than my iPad. Here's why...

1. 18 to 20 hours of battery life. If you travel, which I do, not having to worry about a power supply is a weight saver. I tested watching ALL THREE Lord of the Rings (long-ass movies) and still had battery left to do email. Not possible on an iPad.

2. 64gb MicroSD expansion. Because I couldn't fit all three Lord of the Rings on the local storage, I loaded them on a 64gb MicroSD which I bought from Amazon for $50. I also use the card to save large PowerPoints and Word files. Not possible on an iPad.

3. BitLocker-encrypted 1TB USB drive. The Hitachi Touro 1TB USB 3.0 drive for $80 on Amazon does not require a power supply and works great with my RT device. I encrypted it on my Windows 7 box using BitLocker, then unlock it with a password when I swap between devices to secure my data. The performance and encryption are seamless. Not possible on an iPad.

4. Mouse and FULL Keyboard. When I need to do more than 2 hours of continuous work, having the option to use a traditional mouse and keyboard makes me more productive. Since there is no mouse option on the iPad, it became tiring. But, also not having keyboard shortcut capabilities made me realize how much I depend on ctrl-c + ctrl-v to copy/paste, ctrl-end to jump to the end of a document or spreadsheet, or Windows-L to lock my screen. Not possible on an iPad - particularly the mouse.

5. Excel, PowerPoint, and Word. I spend hours editing offline documents, spreadsheets, and presentations. I mention offline because technically you can Citrix or remote into a PC from an iPad or Android tablet, but you cannot do that if there is no Internet connection. Because RT includes the latest 2013 versions of Excel, PowerPoint, and Word, it auto-magically caches your SkyDrive stored files so you can work on them offline (like email in Outlook). Not possible on an iPad.

Because of those five features, my beautiful iPad is used for games and controlling my Grace Digital Internet Radio since there is no Windows RT app for that.

<@BradChacos> - The problem I see with your article is two-fold:

1. It takes a polarizing, sensationalism approach by mostly comparing ARM-based RT to Intel/AMD-based Windows. You got me to comment, so it obviously worked - but for the wrong reasons - in a way that Kim Kardashian is famous for the wrong reasons.

My point is STOP COMPARING RT TO WINDOWS 8, instead compare it to the iPad like I did above. Microsoft made the mistake of not doing that from the beginning. You don't see reviewers compare Toyota's Prius to their Pathfinder.

2. You fundamentally believe your article is considered reporting. There lies the subtle, yet effective, problem. It's a classic conflict between gaining readers/subscribers and fair/balanced reporting. Fair/balanced reporting doesn't always make money, but writing to gain readers/subscribers does.

When Jon Stewart called out CNN's Crossfire as being bad for America (youtu.be/aFQFB5YpDZE), he was right because they were more focused on the mud-slinging conflict and drama, than the actual substance and content of the political debate.

With a bit of investigative reporting, you could see that the *architecture* of RT is the direction of Windows and that Microsoft is going to iteratively get it, its flagship product, right. It's not a matter of if, but a matter of when. Yet sadly, none of that insight gets "reported."

</@BradChacos>

[TechConc]

W0lfman, on 11 May 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

@TechConc and @BradChacos - I own and enjoy using my iPad 3. I also own and enjoy using my Dell XPS 10 running Windows RT using the Dell keyboard dock. However, ever since buying and using my RT device it has become much more productive than my iPad. Here's why...

I'm not going to try to make the point that the iPad is necessarily the best platform for say.. office productivity. It's not, but it is capable. I suppose the bigger issue I have with your post is that you seem to go out of your way looking for trivial difference that show an advantage to your preferred platform. But, these "advantages" that you list are essentially meaningless.

"1. 18 to 20 hours of battery life."

Honestly, do you really use your device for more than 10 - 12 hours at a time? If you do, then perhaps you have other social issues to deal with. The big thing about the iPad is that it's the first device that you can take with you all day at work and not have to worry about plugging in like you do with most laptops. If your concern is making it through a 20 hour flight, then just pack an extra battery. Your Dell is much heavier, so you shouldn't have a problem with the extra weight of an external battery for your iPad.

"2. 64gb MicroSD expansion."

Given that you can buy iPads with up to 128GB storage, I don't see the issue. For corporate / security perspective, SD cards are not seen as a good thing. Additionally, they are pretty much guaranteed to be slower than internal iPad storage.

"3. BitLocker-encrypted 1TB USB drive."

Not sure what you're talking about here. There are multiple options for external storage options like Hyperdrive and their are even wireless solutions with encryption, etc.

"4. Mouse and FULL Keyboard."

Okay, mouse on your tablet device? Huh? If this is your need, then your better off with an ultrabook / MacBook Air. If you just need a keyboard, there are tons of cases with bluetooth keyboards for the iPad. Again... I don't see your issue.

"5. Excel, PowerPoint, and Word. "

Numbers, Keynote, Pages. If your goal is to end up with something in Office format, this admittedly isn't the best approach, but these programs are actually very capable at Office productivity. People coming to meetings with iPads and Keynote presentations are becoming fairly common these days. But again, if Office is your biggest use case, then you're probably better off with an ultrabook / Macbook Air anyway.