[LiveBrianD]

brainout, on 06 February 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 06 February 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

As for the lack of POP support, I personally don't care, but what about all those people who need it? Screw compatibility, right? I don't understand why you have to sign into a Microsoft account to use the email app either, even if you only want to use, say, a gmail account in it.

POP support matters for business. You probably don't like it much when you have to change email addresses and notify everyone, right? Well, businesses have a lot more 'everyone' to notify. So if they have to switch from POP to IMAP, then they have to notify a lot of people. I would have to notify about 600 people, and I'm only a small firm. There are millions of small firms. Our customers don't like having to change email addresses. So, we keep the same ones for decades.

Also, POP is easier to handle, and is the default for many of the online email vendors. So now you know why it's important.

This has nothing to do with changing email addresses BTW.

[waldojim]

brainout, on 06 February 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

No, waldojim, you didn't account for anything. You prove with each post that you are dishonest and incompetent. That's why I put you on ignore, and why I jump in now, since you are such a belligerent person with Brian. He doesn't deserve your condescension. I pity your wife. I would never hire someone like you. You are slovenly, biased, don't do your homework, you lie when it suits you, and you think you always have to win at everything. Picking on Brian is absolutely unconscionable.

Now I'll put you back on ignore, where you belong.

Coming from the person who still doesn't know what Windows is based on, I will gladly accept you not replying. It makes life easier for me. Now go back to ignoring the facts.

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 06 February 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

I think most people could come up with a more competent design - that is, don't hide basic controls for no reason, perhaps allow me to run metro apps in a window (I might actually use the music and video apps this way), and allow me to disable metro entirely (though having metro apps windowed makes this less necessary). There's a reason it took me a lot longer to figure 8 than any other OS I've seen lately, and those hidden controls were part of the reason... (to put it simply - I actually filled some bug reports on the mail app saying there was no place to add accounts before I figured out where the settings were hidden) You would think that when plenty of the tech community has been yelling at them for a while, they'd make some attempt to fix it. But nope, they haven't really done so...

And you do realize just how much hidden stuff confuses the average user, right? Generally, you want to make an OS EASIER to use, not harder.

As for the lack of POP support, I personally don't care, but what about all those people who need it? Screw compatibility, right? I don't understand why you have to sign into a Microsoft account to use the email app either, even if you only want to use, say, a gmail account in it.

Except the controls were handled the way they were FOR a reason. That was not arbitrary.
Metro apps needed to be handled in a common format for all devices. Otherwise, you cannot bridge the gap between desktops, laptops, and mobiles.
Metro IS the new START Menu. Use it as such on a desktop, and you will find no reason to disable it.
The mail app asked me for the settings the first time I launched it. And ALL Metro applications have their settings accessible from the same place. Why be redundant and use screen space for a settings button that will only be used once?

They don't want to listen to the tech community because they are LAZY and refuse to learn.

They dumped POP for good reason. You cannot maintain continuity among several devices with POP. Companies need to move forward already.

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 06 February 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

brainout, on 06 February 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 06 February 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

As for the lack of POP support, I personally don't care, but what about all those people who need it? Screw compatibility, right? I don't understand why you have to sign into a Microsoft account to use the email app either, even if you only want to use, say, a gmail account in it.

POP support matters for business. You probably don't like it much when you have to change email addresses and notify everyone, right? Well, businesses have a lot more 'everyone' to notify. So if they have to switch from POP to IMAP, then they have to notify a lot of people. I would have to notify about 600 people, and I'm only a small firm. There are millions of small firms. Our customers don't like having to change email addresses. So, we keep the same ones for decades.

Also, POP is easier to handle, and is the default for many of the online email vendors. So now you know why it's important.

This has nothing to do with changing email addresses BTW.

I mentioned before Brainout isn't the brightest bulb in the box. Here is yet another example. It takes very little time (as we both know) to set up an email server. That email address will be based on your domain name no matter what type of server you run or switch to. Brainout is clueless when dealing with real life situations.

POP is not easier. That is a misnomer. Most places still using POP are too LAZY to switch. Microsoft is now forcing their hands, and in this case, for the better. POP is a very, very old, very simplistic email protocol that was replaced years ago by the far superior IMAP. This is no different than moving on from MFM based hard drives, Serial ports, and floppies. Sure they work, but there are BETTER SOLUTIONS available now.

[waldojim]

brainout, on 06 February 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

No, waldojim, you didn't account for anything. You prove with each post that you are dishonest and incompetent. That's why I put you on ignore, and why I jump in now, since you are such a belligerent person with Brian. He doesn't deserve your condescension. I pity your wife. I would never hire someone like you. You are slovenly, biased, don't do your homework, you lie when it suits you, and you think you always have to win at everything. Picking on Brian is absolutely unconscionable.

Now I'll put you back on ignore, where you belong.

Since you didn't catch it, I am trying to have a reasoned discussion with him.

YOU are the one I am making fun of.

Because you are clueless.

Go back to hiding you coward.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 06 February 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 06 February 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

I think most people could come up with a more competent design - that is, don't hide basic controls for no reason, perhaps allow me to run metro apps in a window (I might actually use the music and video apps this way), and allow me to disable metro entirely (though having metro apps windowed makes this less necessary). There's a reason it took me a lot longer to figure 8 than any other OS I've seen lately, and those hidden controls were part of the reason... (to put it simply - I actually filled some bug reports on the mail app saying there was no place to add accounts before I figured out where the settings were hidden) You would think that when plenty of the tech community has been yelling at them for a while, they'd make some attempt to fix it. But nope, they haven't really done so...

And you do realize just how much hidden stuff confuses the average user, right? Generally, you want to make an OS EASIER to use, not harder.

As for the lack of POP support, I personally don't care, but what about all those people who need it? Screw compatibility, right? I don't understand why you have to sign into a Microsoft account to use the email app either, even if you only want to use, say, a gmail account in it.

Except the controls were handled the way they were FOR a reason. That was not arbitrary.
Metro apps needed to be handled in a common format for all devices. Otherwise, you cannot bridge the gap between desktops, laptops, and mobiles.
Metro IS the new START Menu. Use it as such on a desktop, and you will find no reason to disable it.
The mail app asked me for the settings the first time I launched it. And ALL Metro applications have their settings accessible from the same place. Why be redundant and use screen space for a settings button that will only be used once?

They don't want to listen to the tech community because they are LAZY and refuse to learn.

They dumped POP for good reason. You cannot maintain continuity among several devices with POP. Companies need to move forward already.

The confusing thing with the settings is that they're like NOTHING else, even Windows 8's desktop side (which is what most people spend all their time in). That helps no one.

The first time I opened the Mail app, I was required to login with a Microsoft account. Even though there's no excuse for that when that isn't necessary - for instance, if I want to use another email provider.

I never said I liked POP3. That said, plenty of people still use it, and will probably just install another mail client and continue their ways...

[brainout]

LiveBrianD, on 06 February 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

brainout, on 06 February 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 06 February 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

As for the lack of POP support, I personally don't care, but what about all those people who need it? Screw compatibility, right? I don't understand why you have to sign into a Microsoft account to use the email app either, even if you only want to use, say, a gmail account in it.

POP support matters for business. You probably don't like it much when you have to change email addresses and notify everyone, right? Well, businesses have a lot more 'everyone' to notify. So if they have to switch from POP to IMAP, then they have to notify a lot of people. I would have to notify about 600 people, and I'm only a small firm. There are millions of small firms. Our customers don't like having to change email addresses. So, we keep the same ones for decades.

Also, POP is easier to handle, and is the default for many of the online email vendors. So now you know why it's important.

This has nothing to do with changing email addresses BTW.

It has everything to do with changing email addresses. A lot of online email providers won't work in IMAP. Click here a big one. Click here for a small one. And click here for another big one; with more on that same issue, click here, and click here.

This post has been edited by brainout: 06 February 2013 - 03:09 PM

[waldojim]

brainout, on 06 February 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

It has everything to do with changing email addresses. A lot of online email providers won't work in IMAP. Click here a big one. Click here for a small one. And click here for another big one; with more on that same issue, click here, and click here.

And this is where you show your ignorance. Many businesses (especially LARGE ONES) have their own internal E-Mail server. Even smaller ones should consider handling that on their own. Any excuses as a business are nothing more than that: excuses.

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 06 February 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

brainout, on 06 February 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

It has everything to do with changing email addresses. A lot of online email providers won't work in IMAP. Click here a big one. Click here for a small one. And click here for another big one; with more on that same issue, click here, and click here.

And this is where you show your ignorance. Many businesses (especially LARGE ONES) have their own internal E-Mail server. Even smaller ones should consider handling that on their own. Any excuses as a business are nothing more than that: excuses.

He does have a point about Comcast not working with it though. (odd that it wouldn't) And remember, sure, businesses may have their own mail server, but most consumers don't. I'm not saying that most people need POP3, but there are a few that do, and I don't see a reason for Microsoft to not support it.

[waldojim]

LiveBrianD, on 06 February 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

He does have a point about Comcast not working with it though. (odd that it wouldn't) And remember, sure, businesses may have their own mail server, but most consumers don't. I'm not saying that most people need POP3, but there are a few that do, and I don't see a reason for Microsoft to not support it.

Most consumers don't use Comcast email either. They use email from third parties for good reasons. IE: You don't have to change your email address when you leave your current carrier.

[brainout]

LiveBrianD, on 06 February 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

waldojim, on 06 February 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

brainout, on 06 February 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

It has everything to do with changing email addresses. A lot of online email providers won't work in IMAP. Click here a big one. Click here for a small one. And click here for another big one; with more on that same issue, click here, and click here.

And this is where you show your ignorance. Many businesses (especially LARGE ONES) have their own internal E-Mail server. Even smaller ones should consider handling that on their own. Any excuses as a business are nothing more than that: excuses.

He does have a point about Comcast not working with it though. (odd that it wouldn't) And remember, sure, businesses may have their own mail server, but most consumers don't. I'm not saying that most people need POP3, but there are a few that do, and I don't see a reason for Microsoft to not support it.

Thanks, Brian. I just made a video about Linux, which YES allows POP3 (via Thunderbird), and you can put it on a stick, so can still keep Windows 8, so long as UEFI isn't enabled. Click here for the playlist, third video was just posted.

By the way, Comcast is often the only player in a town, such as in mine. The city/polity awards the video/internet/phone contract often to but one provider, so it gets a local monopoly. So if you are a business, then you have to pick it. Not all towns have this problem, but when I lived in a suburb of Chicago that was true with Comcast, and now here also in a suburb of Houston. When there is nominal competition, often Comcast is superior to that competition (Dish Network, embarq, etc). So again, a business has to go with what best suits it.

Next, most businesses are SMALL, not large. Most jobs are created by small business, not large. That's why the Federal Government in the US, even a liberal like Obama, wants to help small business. That's why Dell went private, as the market for small business is NOT taken up by the IBMs of the world. So we tend to have lower technology, but operate just fine, thank you very much.

Finally, even the Federal Government, which has thousands of employees, only has employees come in one day a week. The rest of the week they work at home. So they need backup emails from their homes, as the IRS server imposes great restrictions on attachments. So when I want to email an auditor, I often have to send the material being audited to the home email, so the person can download the large attachments (legal documents, past filings, etc). So again, POP3, not IMAP is used often. There is a change going on now toward IMAP, but only due to the Windows 8 problem. Hopefully once the email providers change to IMAP, we won't have to go through hoops. But until then, the only way is to change addresses -- not an option, for small businesses -- or, compose online.

BTW, I'm an old lady, as you'll see if you browse my latest videos.

This post has been edited by brainout: 06 February 2013 - 06:51 PM

[LiveBrianD]

waldojim, on 06 February 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 06 February 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

He does have a point about Comcast not working with it though. (odd that it wouldn't) And remember, sure, businesses may have their own mail server, but most consumers don't. I'm not saying that most people need POP3, but there are a few that do, and I don't see a reason for Microsoft to not support it.

Most consumers don't use Comcast email either. They use email from third parties for good reasons. IE: You don't have to change your email address when you leave your current carrier.

FWIW, my mom still uses an sbcglobal email account, even though we cancelled the att (formerly sbc) DSL a few years ago. That account is just a yahoo account on the sbc domain though, so that might be why.

And I do know people who use Comcast email, so...

[LiveBrianD]

brainout, on 06 February 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

LiveBrianD, on 06 February 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

waldojim, on 06 February 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

brainout, on 06 February 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

It has everything to do with changing email addresses. A lot of online email providers won't work in IMAP. Click here a big one. Click here for a small one. And click here for another big one; with more on that same issue, click here, and click here.

And this is where you show your ignorance. Many businesses (especially LARGE ONES) have their own internal E-Mail server. Even smaller ones should consider handling that on their own. Any excuses as a business are nothing more than that: excuses.

He does have a point about Comcast not working with it though. (odd that it wouldn't) And remember, sure, businesses may have their own mail server, but most consumers don't. I'm not saying that most people need POP3, but there are a few that do, and I don't see a reason for Microsoft to not support it.

Thanks, Brian. I just made a video about Linux, which YES allows POP3 (via Thunderbird), and you can put it on a stick, so can still keep Windows 8, so long as UEFI isn't enabled. Click here for the playlist, third video was just posted.

By the way, Comcast is often the only player in a town, such as in mine. The city/polity awards the video/internet/phone contract often to but one provider, so it gets a local monopoly. So if you are a business, then you have to pick it. Not all towns have this problem, but when I lived in a suburb of Chicago that was true with Comcast, and now here also in a suburb of Houston. When there is nominal competition, often Comcast is superior to that competition (Dish Network, embarq, etc). So again, a business has to go with what best suits it.

Next, most businesses are SMALL, not large. Most jobs are created by small business, not large. That's why the Federal Government in the US, even a liberal like Obama, wants to help small business. That's why Dell went private, as the market for small business is NOT taken up by the IBMs of the world. So we tend to have lower technology, but operate just fine, thank you very much.

Finally, even the Federal Government, which has thousands of employees, only has employees come in one day a week. The rest of the week they work at home. So they need backup emails from their homes, as the IRS server imposes great restrictions on attachments. So when I want to email an auditor, I often have to send the material being audited to the home email, so the person can download the large attachments (legal documents, past filings, etc). So again, POP3, not IMAP is used often. There is a change going on now toward IMAP, but only due to the Windows 8 problem. Hopefully once the email providers change to IMAP, we won't have to go through hoops. But until then, the only way is to change addresses -- not an option, for small businesses -- or, compose online.

BTW, I'm an old lady, as you'll see if you browse my latest videos.

In my case, you can either get nice fast Comcast internet, or 1.5mbps ATT DSL (no U-Verse right where I am, even though it's in neighboring cities and I think other areas of the same town - this is in the San Francisco suburbs...). So, there's competition, but not really.

Also, IMAP is multitudes better than POP3 with multiple machines, as everything's kept sync'd with the server and thus all your other machines. The only issue could be running out of server space I suppose...