[PCWorld]

Post your comments for Samsung gains on Apple as the dominant mobile device maker here

[thewazak]

"Samsung's share rose 9 percent year-over-year, while Apple's slid down two points from 41 percent."
So, please, why did Stephen Baker refer to "Apple's continued strength"?
The writing is on the wall - Wall Street.
When you hear pundits talking about "no Apple innovation since the demise of Steve Jobs", I fail to see how anyone could suggest Apple is in a position of strength - unless it's in terms of the mighty falling.

[SoftyHarden]

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"......I fail to see how anyone could suggest Apple is in a position of strength - unless it's in terms of the mighty falling.

Really? When Apple commands roughly 75% of the PROFIT share (which is by far the only metric that matters) they are in a far better position of strength than Samsung is regardless of the far less important metric of "Market Share".

Also, are we playing the usual shell game of products shipped, as opposed to Apple who reports products SOLD?

[thewazak]

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Apple commands roughly 75% of the PROFIT share (which is by far the only metric that matters)

Do the math: as market share shrinks - so does the profit.
And as Apple's value is essentially it's Wall Street valuation - which is rather shaky - don't bank on shareholder NOT pulling the plug!

[SoftyHarden]

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Apple commands roughly 75% of the PROFIT share (which is by far the only metric that matters) Do the math: as market share shrinks - so does the profit. And as Apple's value is essentially it's Wall Street valuation - which is rather shaky - don't bank on shareholder NOT pulling the plug!

As you said Thewazak, do the math. Come talk about Apple being in trouble when their profit share starts slipping (which when Apple reports record growth quarter upon quarter upon quarter isn't happening anytime soon).

And let's not even talk about the asinine, unrealistic, double-standard expectations Wall Street places on Apple.

[thewazak]

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"...record growth quarter upon quarter upon quarter..."

I take it your infatuation with Apple prevents you from seeing the numbers behind the numbers:

"Following the release of the company's disappointing fourth-quarter earnings report the stock fell...." (25 per cent from 590 to 440 in the last quarter - way down from the 700 in the dizzy days)
.
So APPL growth has started to flatline. But even if you are not interested in Wall Street, maybe you should listen to the non-fanboi tech pundits who are concerned that Apple has done nothing new since the demise of Steve Jobs. Maybe the two stories are connected!

[SoftyHarden]

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"...record growth quarter upon quarter upon quarter..." I take it your infatuation with Apple prevents you from seeing the numbers behind the numbers: "Following the release of the company's disappointing fourth-quarter earnings report the stock fell...." (25 per cent from 590 to 440 in the last quarter - way down from the 700 in the dizzy days) . So APPL growth has started to flatline. But even if you are not interested in Wall Street, maybe you should listen to the non-fanboi tech pundits who are concerned that Apple has done nothing new since the demise of Steve Jobs. Maybe the two stories are connected!

Really? Apple growth has started to flatline?

http://venturebeat.c...old-in-q1-2013/

I'm not interested in Wall Street's blatant stock manipulation and doublstandards Thewazak, you're right. When Apple posts record numbers and their stock falls, meanwhile Amazon can't even break even yet THEIR STOCK goes up what does that tell you?

As for not releasing anything new? iPhone5, iPad Mini among other products. Apple seems to be doing pretty good for a company that "Hasn't released anything new". That argument is so absurd. So Apple is expected to release something brand new every quarter? Give me a break.

[TechConc]

thewazak, on 04 February 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

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Apple commands roughly 75% of the PROFIT share (which is by far the only metric that matters)

Do the math: as market share shrinks - so does the profit.
And as Apple's value is essentially it's Wall Street valuation - which is rather shaky - don't bank on shareholder NOT pulling the plug!

"Do the math"... how precious. Okay, let's dissect your comment one by one and see where you are wrong.

1. When the discussion is about the "dominant" player and someone points out to you that Apple commands 75% of the profit share in the mobile business and you continue to argue your point.... it is you that needs to do that math. Businesses exist for one reason - to make money. Whoever is making the most money is the one who is dominating.

2. "as market share shrinks - so does the profit" - Not true. Your statement assumes the size of the market is stagnant. It's not only possible (but actually happens) that you can lose market share and still significantly increase shipments / profits if the entire market is growing. For example... in Q4 2011 (Apple's Q1 2012) Apple sold 37MM iPhones and 15.4MM iPads. In Q4 2012 (Apple's Q1 2013), they sold 47.8MM iPhones and 22.9MM iPads. Honestly... "do the math"! Does this look like a company in trouble?

3. "And as Apple's value is essentially it's Wall Street valuation - which is rather shaky - don't bank on shareholder NOT pulling the plug!"

Honestly, I'm sure nothing would please Apple more than to have investors pull the plug. With Apple's cash horde, they'd simply buyout the remaining shares and go private and laugh all the way to the bank as they wouldn't be beholden to shareholders anymore. Seriously, this market share argument is just stupid. Look at Amazon... they're they only other player getting "market share" in the tablet space. Of course, they're selling them at cost and not actually making any money on them. But, according to you, they must be dominating, right? They currently have a P/E ratio of 3219.40. Honestly, if this doesn't demonstrate the lack of intelligence from the investor community, I don't know what does.

[QUADICON]

Amazing how you scaled up the iPhone 5 so it looks bigger than the GS3, when it almost can fit within the screen space of the GS3

[QUADICON]

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"...record growth quarter upon quarter upon quarter..." I take it your infatuation with Apple prevents you from seeing the numbers behind the numbers: "Following the release of the company's disappointing fourth-quarter earnings report the stock fell...." (25 per cent from 590 to 440 in the last quarter - way down from the 700 in the dizzy days) . So APPL growth has started to flatline. But even if you are not interested in Wall Street, maybe you should listen to the non-fanboi tech pundits who are concerned that Apple has done nothing new since the demise of Steve Jobs. Maybe the two stories are connected! Really? Apple growth has started to flatline? http://venturebeat.c...old-in-q1-2013/ I'm not interested in Wall Street's blatant stock manipulation and doublstandards Thewazak, you're right. When Apple posts record numbers and their stock falls, meanwhile Amazon can't even break even yet THEIR STOCK goes up what does that tell you? As for not releasing anything new? iPhone5, iPad Mini among other products. Apple seems to be doing pretty good for a company that "Hasn't released anything new". That argument is so absurd. So Apple is expected to release something brand new every quarter? Give me a break.

What's exactly new about the iPhone over the 4S? Oh a .5"? What's new about the Mini? Size? Smaller? Its using 2 year old hardware which is equal to the iPad 2, which is all it is at 7.9" or whatever. What's new about it?

Taking a device and resizing it doesn't make it new. Again list what is new on both cases of than size? NOTHING.

Nothing innovatiove, nothing new.Same style, same icons, same features, same apps, same limitations, same ole Apple. They sold less 5s then they thought they would. Mini sales are yes increasing bec the other iPads are dropping as no one really wanted the bigger size. They were forced to buy a bigger size bec it was the best tablet option. If Apple had started with 7", they wouldn't have needed a 10". That and the fact they will get those same Mini losers to buy the next model which will be upgraded to the iPhone 5's CPU likely with a Retina Display, while the iPhone and iPad move to the next leap in silicon. The same crap they did with the Touch.

Oh and Apple's stock? Fell at free fall speed. In fact it fell faster than any stock every has in history. Yes Apple makes a boatload of money. Its easy. First, they sell a $200 phone for $650/750/850 where they force the carriers to pay upfront leaving the carriers to sell them. Much like MS selling licenses to OEM's. But the numbers on the exchange do paint a picture. Yes Apple's stock was way overrated, but those who invested felt it was worth it. But look what they gve to stock holders, first 3 models the same with small changes, 3 iPhone 4's with subtle to no changes, 5 iPad which are basically nearly 100% identical. No new OS, no real new features, maps that don't work, siri still doesn't work very well, and so much more.

I don't think Apple is done, they just haven't had the "next big thing to rip off yet" and they can't even innovate their own products to the next level. Meanwhile MS is struggling with innovation as they take a huge leap with Windows 8 which is a gamble that will pay off soon.

[QUADICON]

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thewazak said
Apple commands roughly 75% of the PROFIT share (which is by far the only metric that matters) Do the math: as market share shrinks - so does the profit. And as Apple's value is essentially it's Wall Street valuation - which is rather shaky - don't bank on shareholder NOT pulling the plug! "Do the math"... how precious. Okay, let's dissect your comment one by one and see where you are wrong. 1. When the discussion is about the "dominant" player and someone points out to you that Apple commands 75% of the profit share in the mobile business and you continue to argue your point.... it is you that needs to do that math. Businesses exist for one reason - to make money. Whoever is making the most money is the one who is dominating. 2. "as market share shrinks - so does the profit" - Not true. Your statement assumes the size of the market is stagnant. It's not only possible (but actually happens) that you can lose market share and still significantly increase shipments / profits if the entire market is growing. For example... in Q4 2011 (Apple's Q1 2012) Apple sold 37MM iPhones and 15.4MM iPads. In Q4 2012 (Apple's Q1 2013), they sold 47.8MM iPhones and 22.9MM iPads. Honestly... "do the math"! Does this look like a company in trouble? 3. "And as Apple's value is essentially it's Wall Street valuation - which is rather shaky - don't bank on shareholder NOT pulling the plug!" Honestly, I'm sure nothing would please Apple more than to have investors pull the plug. With Apple's cash horde, they'd simply buyout the remaining shares and go private and laugh all the way to the bank as they wouldn't be beholden to shareholders anymore. Seriously, this market share argument is just stupid. Look at Amazon... they're they only other player getting "market share" in the tablet space. Of course, they're selling them at cost and not actually making any money on them. But, according to you, they must be dominating, right? They currently have a P/E ratio of 3219.40. Honestly, if this doesn't demonstrate the lack of intelligence from the investor community, I don't know what does.

That profit doesn't benefit you...it benefits Apple. Here is why it doesn't matter. Marketshare matter more than money and here is why. Smartphone especially change constantly. Apple has relied on basically the same phone for 6 years running. The last holiday run after iPhone 5 was finally announced, sales of older phones went up. For example, VZW stated that after the iPhone5 was officially announced, sales of the Motor Razr went up and that device was 299 on contract. Sales of the GS3 went through the roof as carriers many of which ran out of stock.

The bigger your market the more time you have to make an adjustment and stay competition. So in Samsung's case, they commend 40% of the Android phones sold. As fact, none of the other OEM's can even produce as many phones as Samsung can and none have released ay that are really on the same caliper as the Galaxy Series. If Motorola all of a sudden was to get a hit an right now they have 6% of the same market, Samsung has time to adjust and counter the attack.

In Apple case they don't get that luxury for this one main reason, they have the only device that runs iOS. If there were other iOS devices, the iPhone would have been gone at least after the 4 was released. But Apple can't stave off Android because any platform that allows for other to use it, Apple will always lose. That is why they lost to Windows and they are losing to Android. One company that makes one of everything cant compete against one that offers what they have to everyone else.

Apple will earn huge profits because they get all the money. They get the money from the phones, the apps, the media. But over time they get shoved into a corner. Where Apple has that advantage that even tho their share drops, they still seem to sell more phone. That is because they have the same base buying year after year and then a few newbies, who then become part of the old base when the next model comes out. But lost in market doesn't have to mean lose in revenue if you can sell the same amount of product. What it does mean though is with the market being full, you have no room to grow up which means you keep going down as the other guy gets big, which means your profits will start to stall out.

This is why wall street reacted and the stock which was once $700, is now below $450. no stock in history has eve fallen at such free fall speed. It was too big. Apple being so greedy refused to split the stock. Microsoft split their stock 9 times. If you take away all of them, their stock would be worth over $1000 per share. Gates said they split them to allow everyone a fair chance to invest. Apple being greedy only leaving such options for those who are already filthy rich. Since you must buy at least 10,000 shares, who can afford them at $400 each? Only rich people. Which only benefits Apple.

The writing is on the wall. Apple based will keep them going. But that shift is happening. I can say with a certainly that if the iPhone 5 which you know that is what its going to be, shares that same boring design of the iPhone 4, that when the Galaxy S4 comes, the iPhone is going to get killed before it even gets released. And the new concept of the GS4 rumored to have 8 cores is going to be awesome.