[Gergel70]

Quote

Thanks for the feedback. As I have said before " It's a tablet computer that thinks it's a desktop!" The iPad is only getting more powerful every-time its released. The OS has advanced over the last 3 years, Apple has got the bugs out and we now have a very workable computer in tablet form. Software (apps) for the iPad are now much more suitable to use in Touch mode then MS Win8 is now providing the Surface Pro.

What a bunch of non-sense. The Surface pro is a tablet with desktop capabilities. You can call the ipad more powerful because all Apple does is add hardware tweaks with no real innovation. So if you want those run those baby apps a little faster, then fine. But you can't run real apps such as Photoshop on it as that will stop the ipad in it's tracks. I hardly call adding siri to the iOS in the past 3yrs an advancement since it doesn't work very well to begin with. Other than, what advancement?

Remember Apple has worked on production tablets since 2010. They good at what they do. The fact is, they produce a good product, and they got into this market first. I have spent some time using windows 8 that had a touch screen and I have also worked on the Surface RT. I'm, impressed with some of the things Microsoft has done, and I can see that in a few years of hard work they my have something comparable, but by that time Apple will be selling the iPad 7, where will Microsoft be? That's the real question.

What a joke, In 3 yrs the ipad has seen minor improvements in hardware and almost no improvements in iOS. And to say that they worked out the bugs is laughable. First, they get rid of Google maps only to bring it back when users cried foul to apple maps, or whatever they called that awful map mess. Then battery life suffered with the new iOS. The new ipad was hotter and heavier. Even the iphone had issues with European carriers when iOS 6.1 came out and those carriers warned users not to update recently until fixes were in place. So they aren't exactly good at what they do if they can't control what they put out there very well.

So your right " Some of us need a powerful device " at this point in time Apple is still ahead in the Tablet business. Microsoft moved the desktop OS over to a Tablet format forcing using to adapt to its touch commands (Metro) UI. Apple has trained its user on how to use its touch commands since 2007 when they brought out the first iPhone. When the iPad was released new users have had 3 years of instruction so they didn't require are retaining whatsoever.

That is just complete garbage. Nobody forced anybody to use touch commands. That's like saying Apple forced users to use touch commands to use on the ipad. So your saying that the people from Apple physically came to your place and taught you how to use touch commands before the ipad came out? That you didn't learn how to use touch commands on your own? What a load of BS. People learn how to use things all the time. And you call that forced? That is just asinine statement to make. So I suppose your parents forced you to go to school and the teachers forced you to learn Math, English, etc. What an ignorant and pathetic statement.

What did Microsoft do, new smart-phone, new Tablet and new computers are running Metro UI ( yes I am aware that Microsoft can't use that name anymore But I can) Now people have 3 devised to learn all at the same time. Buggy Smart-phone, sloppy Tablet and a desktop OS that 3/4 of the users despise. It's very interesting how Apple can put all the parts of a puzzle together, while Microsoft its still opening the box! ~~~ The problem with designing something that’s totally idiot proof is that society is always designing a better idiot ~ Steve Jobs

What Microsoft did was build a new eco system of their own. I have been using windows 8 and there is nothing buggy about it. It takes literally 10-15 minutes to learn and I hardly think 3/4 despise it. That number could apply to Crapple devices. Apple products have always been playing catch-up to new innovation so clearly there are pieces of the puzzle that are missing such as NFC and they were late to the game with 4G LTE. And the idiot that made that quote is dead and buried. What you need to do is stop making all these biased statements, because just judging from your name we know you will never have anything good to say about the Surface Pro.

[MacNewton]

HI Gergel70 I am having a problem reading your last comments.

Quote

Nobody forced anybody to use touch commands.

I would like to comment on the above statement. With Windows 8 (metro UI) Microsoft has made it very clear, Do it our way! We have reinvented the new Desktop, we call it "Metro"

Microsoft provided the new Start up screen and forced people to learn Metro. Lot's of users didn't like the idea, and developed ways to bypass the start screen. Microsoft FORCED Metro forced people to use its touch commands.

Mouse: Move your mouse cursor to the top or bottom right corner of the screen, then move the cursor up or down towards the transparent charm icons that appear in the middle of your screen.

Touch: Swipe from the right edge of the screen towards the center of the screen.

Just to let you know, lots of Windows 8 users feel betrayed by Microsoft. Steve Ballmer at the 2012 CES show in Las Vegas said that he was going to make Metro the standard UI on a 3 product lines. Like it or not we are going to make you live it!

Youtube Jan 9, 2012
Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer and guest host Ryan Seacrest set the stage for the Microsoft keynote at CES in Las Vegas, NV, discussing the Metro-style design application. http://youtu.be/5Kk0jhFjDsU

Yes, I use Mac's but I'm also a PU User.

I have a PC running Win7 (used for running accounting software) and I will only upgrade to 8 when MS releases SP1 that will allow users to choose the type of user interface they like to use. Why should people be forced to hack a new computer so it will work the way they like it.

All of this negative media coverage would never happen if they had only provided a configuration panel to allow users to choose. Steve Ballmer made the move to push forward the idea of a global UI , it's just not working.

[Gergel70]

Quote

HI Gergel70 I am having a problem reading your last comments. Nobody forced anybody to use touch commands. I would like to comment on the above statement. With Windows 8 (metro UI) Microsoft has made it very clear, Do it our way! We have reinvented the new Desktop, we call it "Metro" Microsoft provided the new Start up screen and forced people to learn Metro. Lot's of users didn't like the idea, and developed ways to bypass the start screen. Microsoft FORCED Metro forced people to use its touch commands. Mouse: Move your mouse cursor to the top or bottom right corner of the screen, then move the cursor up or down towards the transparent charm icons that appear in the middle of your screen. Touch: Swipe from the right edge of the screen towards the center of the screen.

Ahahahaaaaaa...What a load of iPoop. Do you realize what you just did? You managed to teach all who read your post how to use Windows 8 touch and mouse commands in a matter of a few minutes. Way to go, and you didn't even realize it until just now. Now, did that feel forced to you? AHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA. Go tell your made up stories to those other Crapple users that didn't learn how to use the ipad but were "forced" to use ipad gestures.

[t0030tr]

I have to agree Gergel70, what most people who use Apple products don't realize is that the world at large runs on IBM compatible applications, especially in the industrial environment. Yes, I could buy a MAC and run parallels or some other multi-boot application or I could save some bucks and just carry around a windows laptop all day (the bottom line is a laptop is heavy), but the portability of the tablet would be awesome.. In fact I am hoping that Samsung or Acer tops the latest offerings and puts out something even a little better than what is out there now. The Ipad doesn't run MS SQL and it doesn't run RSLogix either.. As much as the Apple fans may hate it, its still a Windows world and I need devices that can run those applications.

[MacNewton]

"IBM compatible" Wow, I have not heard people say that for years!

The Mac is Windows compatible, Linux compatible, Mac OS X has UNIX 03 certification, Operate right out of the box as a server. Apache web server remains bundled with Mac OS X. as well PHP and MySQL. And for less then $20 you can download and install OS X Server software. Setup web hosting, register your any number of domains and have them hosted on your Mac. (Thats any Mac Running Intel)

If you have a new Mac, you can turn on Web hosting right now, without any extra software, Find out what your IP address is, Modify you domains A records to point to that IP and presto you now have your own public website. This information is readily available on the web or Apple website

Now for the kicker.

Just like Microsoft and its surface Pro, Apple could manufacture and deliver a full OS X Tablet and have it ready for Christmas, thats to say if they think it would sell. If you take a MacBook Air, flip over the screen, and make it Touch activated, it would indeed be a powerful Tablet. Just think about it, if you had the storage space, you could run OS X, Windows 8 Linux all within one computer Tablet. And because it would be using a SSD drive, They all could boot instantly (but not at the same time)

But I feel there holding off until they feel there customers are ready. The Surface Pro is not selling that well, and the RT is a now show. Is it because people are forced to use Win8? Thats up to the PC user, time well tell.

Be well...

Quote

I have to agree Gergel70, what most people who use Apple products don't realize is that the world at large runs on IBM compatible applications, especially in the industrial environment. Yes, I could buy a MAC and run parallels or some other multi-boot application or I could save some bucks and just carry around a windows laptop all day (the bottom line is a laptop is heavy), but the portability of the tablet would be awesome.. In fact I am hoping that Samsung or Acer tops the latest offerings and puts out something even a little better than what is out there now. The Ipad doesn't run MS SQL and it doesn't run RSLogix either.. As much as the Apple fans may hate it, its still a Windows world and I need devices that can run those applications.

[WinTard]

MacNewton, on 04 March 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

"IBM compatible" Wow, I have not heard people say that for years!

The Mac is Windows compatible, Linux compatible, Mac OS X has UNIX 03 certification, Operate right out of the box as a server. Apache web server remains bundled with Mac OS X. as well PHP and MySQL. And for less then $20 you can download and install OS X Server software. Setup web hosting, register your any number of domains and have them hosted on your Mac. (Thats any Mac Running Intel)

If you have a new Mac, you can turn on Web hosting right now, without any extra software, Find out what your IP address is, Modify you domains A records to point to that IP and presto you now have your own public website. This information is readily available on the web or Apple website

Now for the kicker.

Just like Microsoft and its surface Pro, Apple could manufacture and deliver a full OS X Tablet and have it ready for Christmas, thats to say if they think it would sell. If you take a MacBook Air, flip over the screen, and make it Touch activated, it would indeed be a powerful Tablet. Just think about it, if you had the storage space, you could run OS X, Windows 8 Linux all within one computer Tablet. And because it would be using a SSD drive, They all could boot instantly (but not at the same time)

But I feel there holding off until they feel there customers are ready. The Surface Pro is not selling that well, and the RT is a now show. Is it because people are forced to use Win8? Thats up to the PC user, time well tell.

Be well...

t0030tr, on 14 February 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

I have to agree Gergel70, what most people who use Apple products don't realize is that the world at large runs on IBM compatible applications, especially in the industrial environment. Yes, I could buy a MAC and run parallels or some other multi-boot application or I could save some bucks and just carry around a windows laptop all day (the bottom line is a laptop is heavy), but the portability of the tablet would be awesome.. In fact I am hoping that Samsung or Acer tops the latest offerings and puts out something even a little better than what is out there now. The Ipad doesn't run MS SQL and it doesn't run RSLogix either.. As much as the Apple fans may hate it, its still a Windows world and I need devices that can run those applications.

Web services in Windows? Straight out of the box? Simply go to Control Panel >> Programs and Features >> Turn Windows features on or off


SQL comes courtesy of Visual Studio:


Full Oracle Enterprise Database, because I need it professionally. Straight 10 minute install. Easy!


Because Oracle is so big and heavy on resources, I elect to start/stop it manually, not to impede my startup time:


Regarding Apache etc. Have you heard of Open-Source? Virtually everything Open-Source runs under Windows, one way or another. For instance, XAMPP? A mere one minute install! Free, and in source code no less.
http://www.apachefri...g/en/xampp.html


Yes Windows is a real powerful and universal Operating System, to begin with. And yes, all of the above runs on the Microsoft Surface Pro tablet, at least as powerful as a MacBook Air, but with many features non-present in the Apple offering. Such as Full HD 1920x1080 resolution, and also multi-touch, plus stylus and digitizer input. Now, does Apple offer any tablet running OS X, in 64-bit? Not iOS in 32-bit on a crippled low computational power ARM processor, with ultra-slow eMMC based NAND Flash, at least 10X to 20X slower than a true SSD? Looking at it this way, the top-of-the-line iPad is a mere consumption toy.

Also for free, one can download the full Windows 2012 Enterprise Server and/or the full Windows 8 Enterprise as an evaluation, then boot it (or both simultaneously) right in Windows 8 Pro under Hyper-V. Oh one can also boot Red Hat Enterprise Linux or any other OS as well... While running Win8 Pro.


One might even consider booting OS X the latest right in Win8 Pro!

Please be well as well...

~~~~~~~~~~
Keep five yards from a carriage, ten yards from a horse, and a hundred yards from an elephant; but the distance one should keep from a wicked man cannot be measured.
~ Indian Proverb

Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value.
~ Albert Einstein

Science is organized knowledge. Wisdom is organized life.
~ Immanuel Kant

This post has been edited by WinTard: 07 March 2013 - 01:22 AM

[MacNewton]

WinTard

As the iPad takes over the DeskTop world and as MS runs out of photocopier toner, Apple will continue to bring new products on-line.

[waldojim]

MacNewton, on 23 March 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

WinTard

As the iPad takes over the DeskTop world and as MS runs out of photocopier toner, Apple will continue to bring new products on-line.

Seems to me that you have nothing to really say here.... The Surface Pro is hardly a copy. It is a real PC in a tablet form. Apple has NOTHING competing in that segment. Not sure what you are going for here, but I hope you aren't trying to troll. Trolls usually do a better job than this.

[soulhakr]

This website is listing the price and purchase link for the Surface RT ($699 on the MS Store) at the top instead of the Surface Pro ($999 on the MS Store) And thus compares the RT to full laptops, which is just plain wrong.

[jazzy007]

Quote

This article is something of a worry. comments like "thanks to Windows 8 Pro, it can run all the legacy desktop applications that we need for serious productivity. " The thing has a 10 inch screen, just how much of that document or spreadsheet are you going to cram in there to be productive with. It is time for those writing these article to bite the bullet and call the product what they are. Low power web content consumption devices. At a pinch they can write an email or take a short memo, but they are not, I repeat for the slow Journalists, not a productivity suite, or a replacement for a desktop or a laptop. Windows Surface and all of these tablets are excellent at what they are designed for and that is content consumption. If your creating content. Put the toy down and sit down to a real productivity device.

Actually the Surface Pro is a complement to a desktop. You do your main work at your desktop. Put that spreadsheet on Skydrive or any other program you working on and take the tablet with you, to a presentation, a meeting or working on the field. The key here is size and weight. Even a 13" or 14" laptop feels large and heavy after a while. You can connect your Surface Pro to a large screen and make your presentation. If you are a insurance adjuster, you can take picture with the tablet of the car, write your estimate and fill the form. Since it use USB you can connect to a small portable printer and print the form to be sign and given to your customer. The key here is weight and size. You can do the same with a laptop but like I mention before, sometimes carrying 4 lbs gets to you. There is always a compromise. You want bigger screen there is a weight penalty. Easy to carry, size matters.

[jazzy007]

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Tablets need to be fanless. I hope MS rectifies it with the next gen. It shouldnt hesitate to even throw in a atom based baytrail if only that can guarantee a fanless design.

There are tablets from Samsung, Acer, Asus that run on Intel Atom chips and price at $400 to $600 running Windows 8, not RT. Check the Microsoft Store and you can see them.

[LRRT]

"Steve Ballmer at the 2012 CES show in Las Vegas said that he was going to make Metro the standard UI on a 3 product lines. Like it or not we are going to make you live it!" this is exactly why he has to be fired..... if I don't like it, which I don't, the next time I have to purchase a PC it will be a Mac. He has 2 years to take the bloody phone UI from the desktop. Apple market share in the consumer space will go to the roof.

[LRRT]

[/quote] A good read! Nicely done. Microsoft has shot itself in the foot once again! The Surface Pro will not interest most computer users. It's a tablet computer that thinks it's a desktop! [/quote]
I agree, I see no point in this Surface, if I want something like that I may as well purchase a thin laptop that will have all the ports, connections, etc. I will behave exactly as the Surface. MSFT has become a mediocre company with no creativity, they just blatantly copy the success of others and try to shovel it to people. They are missing the point that unlike the past, now people have other choices....Apple for the consumers, Google and Linux for geeks.

[brainout]

jazzy007, on 03 April 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Quote

This article is something of a worry. comments like "thanks to Windows 8 Pro, it can run all the legacy desktop applications that we need for serious productivity. " The thing has a 10 inch screen, just how much of that document or spreadsheet are you going to cram in there to be productive with. It is time for those writing these article to bite the bullet and call the product what they are. Low power web content consumption devices. At a pinch they can write an email or take a short memo, but they are not, I repeat for the slow Journalists, not a productivity suite, or a replacement for a desktop or a laptop. Windows Surface and all of these tablets are excellent at what they are designed for and that is content consumption. If your creating content. Put the toy down and sit down to a real productivity device.

Actually the Surface Pro is a complement to a desktop. You do your main work at your desktop. Put that spreadsheet on Skydrive or any other program you working on and take the tablet with you, to a presentation, a meeting or working on the field. The key here is size and weight. Even a 13" or 14" laptop feels large and heavy after a while. You can connect your Surface Pro to a large screen and make your presentation. If you are a insurance adjuster, you can take picture with the tablet of the car, write your estimate and fill the form. Since it use USB you can connect to a small portable printer and print the form to be sign and given to your customer. The key here is weight and size. You can do the same with a laptop but like I mention before, sometimes carrying 4 lbs gets to you. There is always a compromise. You want bigger screen there is a weight penalty. Easy to carry, size matters.

Cogent points, Jazzy007. Thank you.

[bobby2626]

Quote

Tablets need to be fanless. I hope MS rectifies it with the next gen. It shouldnt hesitate to even throw in a atom based baytrail if only that can guarantee a fanless design. There are tablets from Samsung, Acer, Asus that run on Intel Atom chips and price at $400 to $600 running Windows 8, not RT. Check the Microsoft Store and you can see them.

I agree. Tablets need to be fanless as well as thin and lite as possible. That is why I like the Atom based Windows 8 hybrids, such as the Envy 2x, Vivotab (which I bought) or Lenovo Lynx better. They have larger screens, much longer battery life, convert to laptops that you can actually use on your lap, and run Windows legacy software so you can get work done. Yeah, the Atom z2760 is a less powerful processor, but it is not that bad. Form factor is as important as processor power when it ends up limiting the utility of the computer.

[JoshInRI]

The more I read about this overheating, badly design keyboard, and chintzy stylus, the less I want this overpriced dud. Thanks.

[WinTard]

JoshInRI, on 29 April 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

The more I read about this overheating, badly design keyboard, and chintzy stylus, the less I want this overpriced dud. Thanks.

The more I read about this overheating (on a mere ARM low-power CPU no less), badly design lack of keyboard, and lack of chintzy stylus, the less I want this overpriced toy dud. Thanks.

http://www.bing.com/...ult&FORM=IE10TR


https://encrypted.go...verheating+ipad


~~~~~~~~~~~
Everything is relative.
~ Albert Einstein

This world is comedy to those that think, a tragedy to those that feel.
~ Horace Walpole

Smart is when you believe only half of what you hear. Brilliant is when you know which half to believe.
~ Orben's Current Comedy