[brainout]

The main reason I want to leave Microsoft and go to Linux, has been the issue of Microsoft micromanaging MY RIGHTS to use MY MACHINE. I hate the Win8 interface, but not so much as to go elsewhere; it's annoying and expensive and causes inflation, because it changes user procedures from good ones in prior OS versions, to bad ones in Win8. But even so, if it at least lets the owner/user change his machine as needed, then fine. Problem is, with Win8, the trend of hitlerian prohibition that began in Vista, is even worse in Win8. Even if you are an administrator, certain functions are not permitted you without you having to jump through a lot of hoops (i.e., editing the registry). Atop that, so much is HIDDEN from the user, even if an administrator, making the OS moribund and difficult to use.

Those who purr over Win8's fast boot times prove that they are too dumb to live and should never be hired. You lose a lot of time using Win8 that you don't lose, using XP and even Vista and Win7, owing to Win8's built-in 'protections' and as always, its dysfunctional defaults which take forever to learn and tweak to what DOES work.

So goes my complaint against Windows 8, hence the attempt to move to Linux. At first, I thought I'd dual-boot. But then found out last week, that I can put Linux on a USB stick, so then I don't need the complication of dual-booting.

In trying to set up distros on a stick, I've learned the nightmare of Linux: you can't do ANYTHING to even get it set up properly, without GUESSING AT how to get past its own hitlerian version of UAC. For example, in Ubuntu, it took me TWO DAYS to realize that its own instructions for putting it on a stick, are useless. When I finally tried various Live USB creator programs and managed to get it on a stick WITH PERSISTENCE (i.e., so it will remember I'm an administrator) -- once it boots, it won't let me into ANY of my files, even though it shows me logged in as Administrator. No explanation, no help, no NOTHING. This is precisely my gripe with Windows 8 -- but even Windows 8, is not so hitlerian.

So that means Ubuntu won't let you access anything unless you install it to a hard drive. Guess what? That will never happen. If it's this hitlerian now, it will be worse in other ways. Weird thing is, I now realize Windows 8 is really competing with Ubuntu, not so much with Apple. The stated policy at MS for its invention of Win8 is almost word-for-word the same, as Ubuntu's 'Unity' policy, which was announced maybe two+ years ago. Past is prologue. No Ubuntu, baby. If the inventors of the program are so daft as to not give the owner of the program ANY INFORMATION at setup about how to obviate its prohibitions, then no one sane would install it.

Mint 14 isn't much better. But none of the live USB creator programs will create it on a stick with persistence (meaning, what you change during a session, will actually reside on the stick and be 'remembered' next time you use the stick). But at least Mint will let me access my drives and files outside of the 'Home' folder. Ubuntu will not, even though I'm logged in as an adminstrator. Until I can configure Mint and get the persistence to work, I can't use it. It too seemingly ignores my 'Administrator' status unless I install it to a hard drive (guessing that's the reason why, for both it and Ubuntu). So if it's this nasty before installation, then I won't use it. So no donations to Mint or Ubuntu.

Debian's Squeeze (latest stable version) is totally buggy in CD or on a stick, so I won't even begin to talk about it here. Doesn't matter if it's downloaded (which is a pistol to find out how to do), or if you bought the 12 DVDs (which I did). It too, only wants installation on a hard drive; its LIVE version won't 'remember' anything, even when allegedly put on a USB stick with persistence; though you can access your hard drive files. But it's very sensitive to the hardware, and won't work well on some newer hardware.

By contrast, Fedora 17 provided its own Live installer, downloaded and worked WITH PERSISTENCE. It recognizes new and old hardware, including nVidia. So far I've had no problems with it denying me any functions. Of course, Fedora 17 is designed for the big boys, so maybe has built-in assumption that you are in IT to use it. All I know, is that of the 10 distros I've tried during last week, only Fedora works.

So if the Linux community wonders why Linux isn't catching on faster, they should start going back to square one, asking whether something they're doing, is harming user adoption. Donations are really sales, guys. If you want donations, make the product you're in essence selling, USER-FRIENDLY. Looks like the folks at Fedora, figured that out. Will report more on Fedora, after I've played more with it. For now, I'm just focusing on WHAT distro to choose, and reporting WHAT problems I've found.

So the moral of the Linux popularity-problem story, is this: don't impose hitlerian user prohibitions without telling the one installing your distro, how to get around them. For then, you're no better than Windows 8 or its rival, Ubuntu.

That all being said, Linux still has its uses. GParted in particular (and its kindred) can do stuff you can't do in Windows, like partition a stick, format and write DVDs, file manipulation (if the distro you're using allows you to access the files, but then you can just get GParted alone and use it). It can surf the web. It can get email. WordPerfect exists for Linux, so you can all just relax about the problems of the 'freeware' which is no match for MS Office. (Of course, WordPerfect has its problems, too, but was designed for MS compatibility in earlier versions. I've used it for decades, and it also has Windows versions, going back to Windows 3.0 or 3.1.)

This post has been edited by brainout: 09 February 2013 - 12:46 PM

[brainout]

UPDATE: I'm done with Fedora, too. It won't explain anything. It acts in weird ways, like telling me I have to be root and run yum-complete-transaction because apparently the 552 updates (!) it downloaded, didn't complete. But there's nothing telling me what didn't complete. So when I enter the Konsole and write the command, nothing happens!

When I set up authentication with me as a member of 'root', and tell it to give me a login screen (gggrrrrrrrrr what asinine requirements), it won't. The only way to get it, is to logoff, because it PRESUMES the default is a 'liveuser', which I don't know how to CHANGE. So then after all the time spent customizing the dang thing, it then won't USE the customizations when I sign on as 'brainout' administrator. I'm damned if I'll go through all that effort again.

This is ridiculous. I thought learning Linux would be no harder than doing Windows 8. I was wrong. If even Fedora is this buggy, then forget it. I'll just stay on XP until it dies, using Win7 when I must, and using Linux when neither of them do what I WANT MY OWN COMPUTERS to do.

This 'protect the user from himself' trend in computers has made using computers a VERY unenjoyable task. Going back to pen and paper, everywhere I can. Leave it up to the geeks to mess up a good thing. Computing was fun, 5-10 years ago. No longer. I am SO done with trying to use Linux, Win8, anything later than 5-10 years ago. They've made computing painful.

Change which makes things work better is good. Change which DESTROYS what works better, is not good. The entire computing industry is moving toward change that makes life worse, not better. All in the name of 'protection'. Same as communism.

This post has been edited by brainout: 09 February 2013 - 02:27 PM

[linuxrants7xpg]

brainout, on 09 February 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

This is ridiculous. I thought learning Linux would be no harder than doing Windows 8.

I'm sorry you're having trouble with Linux. So, I guess I have to ask, was installing a persistent version of Windows XP on a USB stick easier than any of the Linux versions you've tried?

[waldojim]

My personal recommendation, is first use Linux Mint or Mepis, then disconnect your hard drive and install Linux to a USB drive from the Live DVD. Treat the USB like a normal hard drive, and your installation will be smooth. That is the only method I have found to be 100% successful on USB drives.

[brainout]

linuxrants7xpg, on 09 February 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

brainout, on 09 February 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

This is ridiculous. I thought learning Linux would be no harder than doing Windows 8.

I'm sorry you're having trouble with Linux. So, I guess I have to ask, was installing a persistent version of Windows XP on a USB stick easier than any of the Linux versions you've tried?

No, it wasn't easier, and you can't even install XP on a stick. But in essence there's no advantage with Linux distros that I've tried, excepting MAYBE Fedora on a stick. I wanted so badly to like Linux. A lot of the anger you hear is because I expected it to be better than it is. What it is, is what Windows 8 is trying to be: a minefield of obstacles assuming someone's hacking into the system. I spent the last two days trying to even get Mint 14 on a stick. Can't. Why? Because they blocked it all up with a password for root. Been going on since May, click here. I've tried 10 different ways of getting persistence with Mint, and I'd bet money that the reason I cannot, is due to root having a password. But I can't unblock the password using even the CD plus the stick. I've repartitioned and changed to casper-rw gotta be at least seven or 10 times, all without success. I've used three different USB creators, including Mint 14's own, and it doesn't work. So that's that, with Mint. Really frustrating.

Debian, forget it, not worth talking about. Ubuntu, worse than Mint: at least Mint will allow me to access my hard drive from the stick. Ubuntu 12.10 will only let you surf or create new documents in your own home. You can't even get a command line to do anything serious, because you have to be 'root'. And it doesn't offer persistence, either; its own website recommends pendrivelinux.com, and that never works. So, I used Fedora's own Live USB Creator, and once got some persistence -- which caused Ubuntu to hang, so I had to turn off the laptops, pull out the batteries, to shut it off. Over and over again.

I've not bathed in days. It's ridiculous. I expected 'Open Source' to mean 'Freedom to use' it. But it's all bricked up with permission issues at every turn.

Fedora 17 does work -- after I created a 'root' user account and so long as I do stuff AS root, which everyone counsels against -- if you use its own Live USB creator, you get persistence. When creating it from the Fedora 17 iso, Live USB Creator allowed me to designate the whole 32 GB of the stick for persistence, which isn't supposed to happen, with FAT32. But then Fedora on boot, creates three 3.0 GB and several smaller logical partitions, and despite reconfiguration of the remainder (for the programs and data total only 4.69 GB, even after 552 updates and added programs) -- despite all that, it only allows what fits in 3 GB. So now I'm going to see if I can create an ext2 labelled casper-rw out of the rest, without killing anything.

The biggest disappointment is the file manager. It's not like GParted. The KDE, Gnome/Mate, Cinnamon desktops are okay, but the file managers I've tried (Dolphin, Krusader, something named eml-blah-blah -- all of them tell you the number of ITEMS, not the total file SIZE. Their listings are not by size, for folder, but in numbers of items. Who needs that info first? If the stick is limited in a logical partition the system creates, to 3 GB, then SIZE matters the most.

There are many more things wrong with the file management structure, but I'm too tired to go into it now. Above all, the constant need for permissions was the major reason for wanting out of Windows. But with Linux you're jumping out of the frying pan into the fire, because you need to BE 'root', even to clean up the yum, as I was warned repeatedly after downloads which aborted due to problemmatic checksums.

The war isn't over, yet. But I don't know that I want to battle the Linux learning curve, if the file management apps are so bad. I don't want to live in the console. I don't want to make my own file management app, just to use the software. It's not really 'open', if you can't figure out how to make yourself root, if even though you are Administrator, you can't see, operate, files as needed.

So, I'll go back to using my standalone GParted disk with its unfriendly interface, but truly open access; if, I can't figure out a way to get in Fedora, a file manager package that does the same thing.

This post has been edited by brainout: 10 February 2013 - 02:56 AM

[brainout]

Hear, this guy says it best (click here for the link to his post in context, emphasis supplied):

"Thanks for the concern but I just unlocked it and set the password. i will probably lock the account back until I feel like using it (the account) again but since it is my own machine I don't care to have Microsoft or some Linux committee telling me what I can or cannot or should not do with my own system especially since I was on Tymnet and the Arpanet before most of them were born. I am not pointing the finger ant any one here but just the trend of treating everyone as if they are incapable of being responsible for their own decisions. Just like the instructions for my electric drill that has 300 pages of warnings on not to take a bath with it a 1 page on how to use it. For most users it is probably a good thing not to automatically enable the root account but it is silly to pretend it does not exist."

So bye bye, Ubuntu and Mint. To me 'Open Source' means just that, and if the source isn't open to my changing it, then I may as well stay on Windows. I have more freedom, there; especially, in the older versions.

This post has been edited by brainout: 10 February 2013 - 04:27 AM

[brainout]

Well, guess what, people. I was trying to report an answer by testing other answers in the Ubuntu forum about this stick problem. And they DELETED what I wrote! Here's what I wrote, tell me if you see something wrong. The part before 'EDIT' was deleted by the time I got back to finish my report. The thread in context? Click here. Full post is in italics, with the EDIT part in bold. Between the post and the EDIT, was a moderator remark that they didn't consider what I posted as an answer. The website offered to let me edit what I wrote, so I did. AFTER I finished, I noticed that my post was deleted an hour before. But it was still there. I don't understand. At any rate, in case it is gone, here's my post what happened with my attempts with Ubuntu. It does have a happy ending, with the NEW 13.04... I'm anxious to spare anyone else the 48 hours hassle I suffered, trying to do this. There are many explanations on how to do Linux USB on a stick, and most of those explanations are wrong. At least today, they are wrong. To wit:

"I tried all of these solutions but none of them provide persistence, sorry. I suspect the reason is that Ubuntu now has a hidden password set for 'root', because it's the only Linux distro I've tried which won't let me access my own computer files. Nor can I set permissions or be considered an Administrator, no matter what I try to do. I just downloaded 12.10 a few days ago, and have been trying to make a persistent USB, ever since. Same problem exists with the CD, which I also have. And Unetbootin only allows up to 2GB of persistence. The LiveUSB installer in the pictures posted by cipricus -- that installer doesn't work at all, it is missing some boot file with a gz extension. The pendrivelinux.com installer doesn't provide persistence, either.

The only one that does, is the Fedora Live USB installer, but it only creates persistence for Fedora. I tried making USB sticks with other distros and although the program allowed me to set persistence, there wasn't any.

A guy in Youtube using Ubuntu example claimed you had to delete the casper-rw file created (you do this from within Linux), and then you have to resize the partition with the programs/home etc. files, with the remainder of the stick repartitioned as an ext3 labelled 'casper-rw'. But when I tried that, it didn't work, either.

Bet you money there's a secret password for 'root' now in Ubuntu, as the same problems exist with Linux Mint 14. Maybe that password only dies when the programs are installed to hard disk, but given the difficulty had, I'm not willing to commit the programs to hard disk, but only to stick.

For the problem in Windows 8 is that it takes away user control and transparency of program structures. Since the same problem seems to pertain here, I'm not willing to install to hard drive until I can see all of what's inside, and have control over what to keep and what to change. I thought that's what 'Open Source' was all about. Guess I was wrong.

EDIT: yes, I am trying to answer the question, by incorporating the previous answers with my own experience at attempting to install Ubuntu for the first time, this week.

Here is the update: the Unetbootin DOES work with Raring Ringtail, 13.04. That update is much better, allows the user to access his own files, has backbuttons, etc. but the key question here is WHAT PERSISTENCE?

With 13.04, I was able to select the full 8GB stick as persistance. Took about 10 minutes, and the result was as advertised.

So then I took the 8 GB stick and plugged it into the same Dell Latitude 6510 laptop that Ubuntu 'liked' the first time (when used solely as a 'try' from CD). The Unetbootin program is a shell around Ubuntu 13.04, and it took extra time, but booted. I copied a bunch of pictures from my Windows hard drive to the Home Pictures folder, to see if persistence would remain. It did.

SO THE ANSWER is that UNetbootin works well with Ubuntu 13.04, but that neither it nor the others mentioned in this thread, did work with 12.10, when I tried them all this week.

Hope this answer helps. I feel immeasurably better, as I wanted to have Ubuntu on a stick very much. "

So, I won't be posting there anymore.

In case you were wondering, 13.04 will now allow you to access your hard drive, but NOT the remainder of the stick. You MUST create a user account, and it's a pistol, because you click and click and click and nothing happens. Not at all intuitive. The dashboard is a docked window of docked size, but at least now you can specify compact list format. You still can't see sizes, but only number of items, in folders. Every time you press one of the optional view keys or the wrench in the top of the window, the screen jumps with way too much space for the name, and very little else. You cannot customize the type of data to show (in KDE desktop you can customize what columns will show, like you can in Windows). In fact, when you right-click on the headings, the headings jump right, even after you narrowed them. Very disconcerting.

Very limited customization, thus far. Can only change the picture in the background, and its crispness, the default background color. Certain subfolders's listings, revert to a lilac background (huh? I specified a brown background for the picture, that was all I could do). There's a very annoying scroll bar which looks like an end tab that follows your mouse.

Available packages' names are in jargon, so maybe the usual stuff is there; can't find what's installed via what's showing on the desktop or dashboard. There's no console on the desktop, nor widgets. The offerings are not in alphabetical order, you can't sort them, and they are listed one item per row, so you'd best search for what you seek. Whatever is installed, has a green checkmark by the icon representing it.

Really, it's just like Windows 8, but prettier. You have to type to find what's on your machine, now. For example, to know if you've got a console aka terminal, you can't tell from what shows onscreen. Instead, you have to click on your dashboard and then type 'terminal' in the search box. The Dashboard window docks at the upper left of the screen, and when what you want shows up and you click on it, the icon goes up past the window, so now you can't see some of it. You can't right-click to make a shortcut from it, so you're stuck having to type in the dashboard search box each time, to get what you want. I'm trying to find whether it has anything like a pinning? AHA, you can drag the icon to the left-sided Launch bar (can't move the bar, can only auto-hide, but a-h doesn't work well).

That's basically it; simple and restricted.

This post has been edited by brainout: 10 February 2013 - 10:15 AM

[linuxrants7xpg]

brainout, on 10 February 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

I expected 'Open Source' to mean 'Freedom to use' it. But it's all bricked up with permission issues at every turn.

What it looks like to me is that you're expecting the world from Linux without committing to actually using it. You'd never complain about the fact that Windows doesn't even work from a USB stick, but Linux makes things difficult for you when it's doing something you can't do on Windows, and that's complaint worthy? Follow Jim's instructions and you'll have a full, working version of Linux running from a USB key with no more restrictions than you'd find on a desktop installation.

If you're tired of someone telling you what you can and can't do with your computer, I'd suggest the LFS project. If you're willing to put in the time, no one will tell you what you can and can't do on your computer. If you're not willing to put in the time, then you're going to have to deal with restrictions from people that have.

[brainout]

linuxrants7xpg, on 10 February 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

brainout, on 10 February 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

I expected 'Open Source' to mean 'Freedom to use' it. But it's all bricked up with permission issues at every turn.

What it looks like to me is that you're expecting the world from Linux without committing to actually using it. You'd never complain about the fact that Windows doesn't even work from a USB stick, but Linux makes things difficult for you when it's doing something you can't do on Windows, and that's complaint worthy? Follow Jim's instructions and you'll have a full, working version of Linux running from a USB key with no more restrictions than you'd find on a desktop installation.

If you're tired of someone telling you what you can and can't do with your computer, I'd suggest the LFS project. If you're willing to put in the time, no one will tell you what you can and can't do on your computer. If you're not willing to put in the time, then you're going to have to deal with restrictions from people that have.

No, all I was expecting from Linux was that it would be not much worse than XP. I was expecting to need to write code or command line at times. I had initially wanted to put it on the hard drive, but that's a commitment for something I needed to try, first. See, freeware is almost always subpar. True in DOS products, true in Windows, you have to accept there will be limitations and bugs.

Linux compares with freeware, as that's its vaunted self-image. So one must be more skeptical and at the same time, tolerant. For freeware it's come a very long way, but the issue of bricking up the user with Control Permissions at every step -- that's what Vista and Windows 7 do. That's what you expect from some moribund IT department with expensive software that must be protected from editing. But it doesn't belong on a desktop that any old joe blow will download free to try. That's my complaint, linuxrants. It's graceless like Windows is graceless. THAT, I did not expect.

Believe me, I had not expected perfection at all. I didn't expect the handcuffs in something advertised as 'Free' as in freedom. Freedom, is what it takes away. Just like Windows is doing. As for helping out with LFS, I'm not a code programmer. I'm trying to help by making honest posts, pro- or con a thing. Feedback is needed that's constructive, and it's always sought, right? Well my feedback to Ubuntu today on the problems of putting it on a stick as Ubuntu claims you can do (I followed its website instructions) -- was DELETED, so much for trying to explain the problems to them. I wasn't rude or crude there. But was factual. So much for trying to help out. Ergo I'm here, not there. They don't want honest answers. They want fawning praise. Sorry.

It hurts to say all this. Really.

Finally, they really want donations. That's just another form of sales. So if they want me to donate to them, then I need to get something that suits my needs enough to warrant the donation. I'm really happy to pay donations for a good thing. I donate a lot, and enjoy doing it -- it's fun, not a good deed. But here, no. If you're going to do a thing and want to get money for it, do it well. And you don't do it well, if you hamstring your customer at every turn. Some Linux distros are better than others. Ubuntu might be better than I've written so far, but honey -- it's hard to use in the same way as Windows, is hard to use. Who wants that?

This post has been edited by brainout: 10 February 2013 - 10:34 AM

[linuxrants7xpg]

brainout, on 10 February 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

No, all I was expecting from Linux was that it would be not much worse than XP. I was expecting to need to write code or command line at times. I had initially wanted to put it on the hard drive, but that's a commitment for something I needed to try, first.

It's not worse than XP. As you previously stated, you can't even do what you're trying to do in Windows XP.

brainout, on 10 February 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Linux compares with freeware, as that's its vaunted self-image. So one must be more skeptical and at the same time, tolerant. For freeware it's come a very long way, but the issue of bricking up the user with Control Permissions at every step -- that's what Vista and Windows 7 do. That's what you expect from some moribund IT department with expensive software that must be protected from editing. But it doesn't belong on a desktop that any old joe blow will download free to try. That's my complaint, linuxrants. It's graceless like Windows is graceless. THAT, I did not expect.

I disagree in the extreme here. Linux "bricking up the user" is one of the ways that Linux accomplishes a more secure environment than Windows. Regular users don't get Administrative rights by default. It's not "graceless" in my personal opinion, it's an obvious restriction. If you want root access, it's easy enough to request it from the system with sudo. If you need to be root, sudo su. You're root. Walla. But there's absolutely no reason you should be running as root constantly.

brainout, on 10 February 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

As for helping out with LFS, I'm not a code programmer.

You don't have to be to use LFS. It's a manual for building your own Linux from source. You don't need to be a programmer to use the manual.

brainout, on 10 February 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

I'm trying to help by making honest posts, pro- or con a thing. Feedback is needed that's constructive, and it's always sought, right?

See, to me it looks like you're expecting something that you'd never expect of Windows. You're handcuffing Linux by not doing an actual installation, and then complaining that it's not able to perform fully. That's not really constructive feedback. It's frustrating to me to see this kind of thing because it's such a one sided view. There's "no advantage" with the Linux distros you've tried? There's many advantages with those distros, and you're not seeing it because you're not even willing to do an actual installation.

[waldojim]

I did try to give you a solution, you might actually want to try it before complaining much more. It does not work the same way as the usual USB installers, but it does work quite well. Even across multiple machines. I use a Linux Mint USB drive (actually MicroSD) as my recovery disk - and it works on every machine I have tried.

This post has been edited by waldojim: 10 February 2013 - 11:07 AM

[brainout]

UPDATE: no, Ubuntu still doesn't work on a stick. It was fine for 'remembering' files copied over, but not for user and other changes. In other words, when I wrote my just-prior post, I had successfully shut down the machine after copying files to the Ubuntu home directory, and those files were retained. But the user information and customizations I made were not retaiined. So Ubuntu on a stick, does NOT work.

This post has been edited by brainout: 10 February 2013 - 07:22 PM

[waldojim]

Ok, it seems there is some confusion as to what I mean, so I am in the process of making a complete How-to video to show you my alternative method.

It ends up treating the USB drive as though it were an internal hard drive, rather than a DVD image with a "persistent data" directory. This works out a tad slower, but acts like a true Linux system.

[brainout]

linuxrants7xpg, on 10 February 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

It's not worse than XP. As you previously stated, you can't even do what you're trying to do in Windows XP.

It is worse than XP. I didn't expect it to be better, but I didn't expect it to be this much worse. It's worse, because it's not integrated, has many more bugs, has a bizarre way of listing different disk drives and files, and a host of other problems. Some of that is to be expected. But what one should not expect, is the constant and excessive 'protection'.

linuxrants7xpg, on 10 February 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

I disagree in the extreme here. Linux "bricking up the user" is one of the ways that Linux accomplishes a more secure environment than Windows. Regular users don't get Administrative rights by default. It's not "graceless" in my personal opinion, it's an obvious restriction. If you want root access, it's easy enough to request it from the system with sudo. If you need to be root, sudo su. You're root. Walla. But there's absolutely no reason you should be running as root constantly.

You like the hamstringing. Fine. But the average user doesn't like it. I don't want to be root all the time. Sadly, because of the way Linux organizes things, I can't ACCESS the files unless I'm root all the time. Thus far I get around it by putting my regular user account in the 'root' group. So I can do some but not all, file management. I can't even put pictures in a common directory and have them accessible. I put them in root Public, but cannot access them? All the right permissions were set, even extreme, (from root) allowing ANYONE to modify or read the files. But I can't do that, even so. So this hamstringing is more stringent than Windows. I'm sure there's a command-line way around it, but the point of this thread is to explain why Windows users have problems with Linux. The Permissions problem is a real pistol.

linuxrants7xpg, on 10 February 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

You don't have to be to use LFS. It's a manual for building your own Linux from source. You don't need to be a programmer to use the manual.

Sorry, I thought you were saying I should join their team and help develop it.

linuxrants7xpg, on 10 February 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

See, to me it looks like you're expecting something that you'd never expect of Windows. You're handcuffing Linux by not doing an actual installation, and then complaining that it's not able to perform fully. That's not really constructive feedback. It's frustrating to me to see this kind of thing because it's such a one sided view. There's "no advantage" with the Linux distros you've tried? There's many advantages with those distros, and you're not seeing it because you're not even willing to do an actual installation.

I won't install a program to my hard drive desktop until I know how well it really plays, sorry. I don't have the time or inclination to open up my machines changing hard drives. Will do it for the laptops, since I don't have to open the back cover, to slide out the drive. Even so, what's the point of using an OS which claims to be so great, if it isn't? I already have XP, and it works better than later OS versions of Windows. That's why people don't upgrade. So why would I upgrade to Linux, if it takes away what I have?

And this isn't a one-sided view, I've been singing Linux praises all over the internet. Just posted in this forum, a thread of Linux Strengths, after making the complaint, to try and still promote Linux. Just made a video about Linux on a stick last week in Youtube, since people regard me as something of a researcher who won't be biased. (I'm biased, alright, but I state the bias so the viewer can sift it out of the research results. My biggest bias is that a thing should survive AUDIT, or it should be ignored.)

Before that, wrote reviews and made comments in a lot of articles saying what I thought was great about Linux. For the first time, this is a PROBLEM I'm reporting. And it's a biggie. The short shrift one gets in the Linux forums is another issue, but minor, compared to this. If the user can't see his own files or access common files without having to sign in as root all the time, this is a BIG OBSTACLE to the average joe wanting Linux on his desktop.

So now I'm ALMOST ashamed for singing Linux praises. I bought into Linux bigtime, spent hundreds of dollars in the materials to learn it, and hundreds of hours since September. Now find the very thing wrong that made me not upgrade to Windows 8 (though I bought the upgrades, they are unopened). I don't want to be burned again.

So as it stands, the 'Strengths' thread lists the advantages over Windows which a Windows user will find pleasant and useful. But if Linux could go on a stick of greater than 4 GB (see my video just posted here, read the description rather than the video), it would be a HERO in the third world, where everyone can carry his linux on a pen drive, and 'borrow' a computer to use! It would be a HERO in the first world, as Windows' vulnerabilities can be bypassed, on the fly. Linux can RESCUE what's wrong in Windows. That's why I bought into it, when I realized that. For, it rescued my Windows computers in May, June, September, and November.

So you see, I'm still a Linux fan. Hurt, but still a fan. Okay, but now I gotta run and seek a useful Linux file manager. Didn't know Konqueror was also a file manager. Will go test it now. Kisses.

This post has been edited by brainout: 11 February 2013 - 10:25 AM

[linuxrants7xpg]

brainout, on 11 February 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

It is worse than XP. I didn't expect it to be better, but I didn't expect it to be this much worse. It's worse, because it's not integrated, has many more bugs, has a bizarre way of listing different disk drives and files, and a host of other problems. Some of that is to be expected. But what one should not expect, is the constant and excessive 'protection'.

Maybe you can screen shot some of the issues you're having.

brainout, on 11 February 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

You like the hamstringing. Fine. But the average user doesn't like it.

The average user has a face full of malware on a daily basis. There are reasons for the way Linux (and Unix in general) does things.

brainout, on 11 February 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

I don't want to be root all the time. Sadly, because of the way Linux organizes things, I can't ACCESS the files unless I'm root all the time. Thus far I get around it by putting my regular user account in the 'root' group. So I can do some but not all, file management. I can't even put pictures in a common directory and have them accessible. I put them in root Public, but cannot access them? All the right permissions were set, even extreme, (from root) allowing ANYONE to modify or read the files.

What files are you trying to access that you can't access? Can you screen shot so that we can see what you're seeing?

brainout, on 11 February 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Sorry, I thought you were saying I should join their team and help develop it.

No, but LFS tells you how to build a complete Linux system from source. No one tells you what you can and can't do when you build the entire Operating System yourself.

[waldojim]

linuxrants7xpg, on 11 February 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

No, but LFS tells you how to build a complete Linux system from source. No one tells you what you can and can't do when you build the entire Operating System yourself.

That is the same principle Gentoo works under, right? Are they doing something Gentoo isn't?

[linuxrants7xpg]

waldojim, on 11 February 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

linuxrants7xpg, on 11 February 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

No, but LFS tells you how to build a complete Linux system from source. No one tells you what you can and can't do when you build the entire Operating System yourself.

That is the same principle Gentoo works under, right? Are they doing something Gentoo isn't?

It's a similar principle, yes, but LFS is steps beyond Gentoo. LFS isn't actually a distribution, it's an instruction manual. Each package has to be selected, downloaded, compiled and installed manually. There's no package management. It's a truly homemade Linux. All the way from the compiler on up.

[waldojim]

linuxrants7xpg, on 11 February 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

waldojim, on 11 February 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

linuxrants7xpg, on 11 February 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

No, but LFS tells you how to build a complete Linux system from source. No one tells you what you can and can't do when you build the entire Operating System yourself.

That is the same principle Gentoo works under, right? Are they doing something Gentoo isn't?

It's a similar principle, yes, but LFS is steps beyond Gentoo. LFS isn't actually a distribution, it's an instruction manual. Each package has to be selected, downloaded, compiled and installed manually. There's no package management. It's a truly homemade Linux. All the way from the compiler on up.

This sounds both extremely time consuming, and like a ton of fun!

I may just take the time to build a system for my Lenovo and see if I can't get Linux to actually run well on there.

[brainout]

UPDATE: I just put Fedora 18 on a stick to see if it was somehow better. It's far worse. NO PERSONALIZATION, too-thin fonts on a black background. So they want you always in the terminal, to accomplish anything. They use the absolutely tyrannical and ugly and everything-bad-about-it Gnome 3 desktop. This isn't freedom, this is insanity. And the storage which should be there, is actually less than in Fedora 17, after formatting the casper partition per Live USB installer native to Fedora (downloaded from its own website).

Of course there are workarounds, but the main reason I rejected Windows 8, was the effort required to tweak it and make it functional. So why would I want to go through even more effort for less productivity? Change which actually makes life more productive is good. But these idiots think that change for the sake of change, is ipse good. They must all be young. They are certainly undiscerning.

Windows 8 begins to look better now. I hate to say that. Good thing I didn't return the OS by the deadline as intended but missed, because I lost a week trying to get Linux to work. So now I'm going to work, and forget about all this for awhile. Due diligence is done. The programmers behind this are on crack. Just like the Google programmers for Youtube are insane, obsessively changing the interface in ways which take three-times-as-many-clicks-or-keystrokes to do the same job, post change. Basta.

XP forever!

[waldojim]

brainout, on 11 February 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Of course there are workarounds, but the main reason I rejected Windows 8, was the effort required to tweak it and make it functional.

Linux is a HOBBY OS, made by people who simply enjoy writing code...

Did you honestly expect something else?