[WinTard]

Listen my friend MacNewton, I actually respect some of your opinions. I believe everyone is entitled to their own true opinions.

Let's simply say that we may not see eye-to-eye on certain things? Unfortunately I do not believe in any superiority from Apple, as you do.

But that doesn't mean you or I are wrong?

Peace!


~~~~~~~~~~
Smart is when you believe only half of what you hear. Brilliant is when you know which half to believe.
~ Orben's Current Comedy

The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress.
~ Joseph Joubert, 1754-1824, French Moralist and Essayist

It is not who is right, but what is right, that is of importance.
~ Thomas Huxley, 1825-1895, English Biologist

[MacNewton]

Agreed!

Quote

Listen my friend MacNewton, I actually respect some of your opinions. I believe everyone is entitled to their own true opinions. Let's simply say that we may not see eye-to-eye on certain things? Unfortunately I do not believe in any superiority from Apple, as you do. But that doesn't mean you or I are wrong? Peace!

[WinTard]

MacNewton, on 14 February 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

WinTard my dear friend, please don't take what I say personally, but Apples computers will always be top drawer, well engineered and have a very long life. With 30 years (or more) in this industry I have seen it all. I'm not sure what your story is and I don't really care.

I have Mac's and a few PC's that I purchased years ago that still work very well thank you. The PC's the still work (when turned on) were custom built by me. Each composite that I installed into the PC's where Top of the line and when I installed them I used an anti-static wristband and had a workbench anti-static service mat. As for the Mac's the only thing I needed to install was more RAM and Hard drives.

Of course I have serviced hundreds of PC's and Mac's I can I can tell you without any Bull$#^% that most of the PC's used very low-end OEM factory components. In The 80's When HP, IBM & Compaq were in business they did produces some very good product. Interesting fact when PC's of that time period used MS-DOS you could get years of production out of them without too much trouble. Today if you buy an HP your lucky to get a year out of it.

NOW BACK TO THE PRO

After looking at the photos of the Surface Pro, It's not looking too good, the logic-board looks a lot like the low-end Thailand tablet that I just picked up for $50.00. I believe the Pro was manufactured by Shenzhen Ananda Technology in Shenzhen,China.

Side note: I see that a month after they released the RT they get sued!

On November 14, 2012, Microsoft was sued by a Los Angeles lawyer for false advertising and unfair business practices due to the fact that about half of the total * disk space on his 32 GB Surface RT tablet was being used by the operating system, applications, and recovery data Microsoft said in a statement that it believes the suit is without merit, because it had advertised the discrepancy on its website.

MAKES YOU THINK WHAT OTHER DISINFORMATION THEY HAVE HAVE RELEASED.


* I'm sure they should have used the word RAM or memory and not disk space. A good lawyer will get MS off because of the error...

Well, please do not take any of the following personally. My stated purpose is to debunk FUD. That's why I joined PC World back in January 2009. As evidenced by my number of posts, I suppose I've debunked LOTS of FUD to date? And I'm only getting started. And not just on PC World. He he...

Oh, please pay attention to the Surface RT ports:

• Full-size USB 2.0
• microSDXC card slot
• Headset jack
• HD video out port
• Cover port

And the Surface Pro ports:

• Full-size USB 3.0
• microSDXC card slot
• Headset jack
• Mini DisplayPort
• Cover port

Do you note the Full-size USB port? You can attach virtually anything USB to that port. Including (like I do) a 3TB external USB-3 drive? Or a 128 GB memory stick for $60?

What about that microSDXC card slot? Just like in a camera for instance? Isn't that infinitely expandable storage in your opinion?

Whereas, you can do none of this with any iPad. Period. And these are mere facts. Just facts.

So what was the problem regarding limited storage with Microsoft Surface tablets? Only Apple is limited in storage. That too is a fact.

~~~~~~~~~~
Efficiency is intelligent laziness.
~ David Dunham

Laziness is the mother of efficiency
~ Marian Propp

Laziness may appear attractive, but work gives satisfaction.
~ Anne Frank

Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work done.
~ Linus Torvalds

[WinTard]

MacNewton, on 14 February 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Agreed!

Quote

Listen my friend MacNewton, I actually respect some of your opinions. I believe everyone is entitled to their own true opinions. Let's simply say that we may not see eye-to-eye on certain things? Unfortunately I do not believe in any superiority from Apple, as you do. But that doesn't mean you or I are wrong? Peace!

Oh sorry, this was not meant as a 'sneaky attack', we were mainly replying at the same time.

I actually appreciate your words, and I think you are a gentleman. Likewise, I try to be somewhat honorable?

~~~~~~~~~~
A stitch in time would have confused Einstein.
~ Anonymous

Theory is when you know something, but it doesn't work. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. Programmers combine theory and practice: Nothing works and they don't know why.
~ A practical theorist

A computer is a stupid machine with the ability to do incredibly smart things, while computer programmers are smart people with the ability to do incredibly stupid things. They are, in short, a perfect match.
~ Some computer science & electrical engineering literate

[MacNewton]

WinTard

Quote

So what was the problem regarding limited storage with Microsoft Surface tablets?

Oops, should have made my comments clear, I was referring to MS misleading advertisement. Question, was the report correct? Did MS pull a fast one?

[Hologram]

Quote

thewazak on 02/13/2013 05:04 PM PST said:

It's not that the article bashed MS: it is that the article did not admit Apple is as bad - till the last paragraph! ............

Whoa! That's quite a revealing statement.

Apple is now only "as" bad as Microsoft?

Not long ago, that would have been considered heresy, the writer of such a statement would have been tarred, feathered and chased from PC World Forums. Not so long ago, Apple was considered the ultimate evil empire bent on stripping computer users of their freedom while breaking them financially. On these very pages, Apple's deceased leader was depicted as quite possibly the next CEO of Dante's Inferno.

My, how perception has changed now that the disillusioned are faced with Microsoft's failure to produce an elegant, $249.99 competitor to the iPad capable of running all WIndows desktop applications. Utter disappointment* and a sense of having been betrayed* can do that.

*Exacerbated, no doubt, by the lack of a user replaceable battery, Microsoft's use of a proprietary charging port "unique" to the Pro, and the need for cooling fans! Two of them! In a tablet!

This post has been edited by Hologram: 16 February 2013 - 07:45 AM

[WinTard]

MacNewton, on 14 February 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

WinTard

Quote

So what was the problem regarding limited storage with Microsoft Surface tablets?

Oops, should have made my comments clear, I was referring to MS misleading advertisement. Question, was the report correct? Did MS pull a fast one?

Thanks for the clarification MacNewton.

Personally, when someone advertises 128GB SSD, well it means 128GB to me? Including whatever the OS requires and all real applications loaded?

For instance, please look at this one week review of the Surface Pro tablet by an engineer and train commuter:

Quote

http://www.zdnet.com...ter-7000011369/

So if loading General Hydrostatics, Deadweight, Deltek Vision, Microsoft Project, Rhino, and Autocad, in addition to the full software ecosystem of Windows 8 Pro including state-of-the-art hardware virtualization (Hyper-V) leaves a tiny 128GB SSD a bit crammed, yet it still works? If you read the article, you will see Matthew adds no additional storage (yet).

No what I find misleading is that Apple introduces a 4th generation iPad with ultra-slow 128GB Flash storage, running at 1/10 the speed of the Microsoft Surface Pro, and pretends to even be in the same ballpark when comparing a mere crippled golf-cart to a real Smart Car (which can go on highways)...

None of these serious and robust software engineering tools are available under any crippled app, which merely act as glorified HTML5 bookmarks into services, that also ironically support full browsers. Who needs crippled apps like that? Sure it's convenient to consume FaceBook, Twitter, et al, but frankly don't you see the differences?

~~~~~~~~~~
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes.
~ E. W. Dijkstra

If only we'd stop trying to be happy we could have a pretty good time.
~ Edith Wharton

Talent does what it can; genius does what it must.
~ Edward Bulwer-Lytton

[WinTard]

Hologram, on 16 February 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Quote

thewazak on 02/13/2013 05:04 PM PST said:

It's not that the article bashed MS: it is that the article did not admit Apple is as bad - till the last paragraph! ............

Whoa! That's quite a revealing statement.

Apple is now only "as" bad as Microsoft?

Not long ago, that would have been considered heresy, the writer of such a statement would have been tarred, feathered and chased from PC World Forums. Not so long ago, Apple was considered the ultimate evil empire bent on stripping computer users of their freedom while breaking them financially. On these very pages, Apple's deceased leader was depicted as quite possibly the next CEO of Dante's Inferno.

My, how perception has changed now that the disillusioned are faced with Microsoft's failure to produce an elegant, $249.99 competitor to the iPad capable of running all WIndows desktop applications. Utter disappointment* and a sense of having been betrayed* can do that.

Where do you come up with $249.99?

http://store.apple.c...pad/family/ipad


I'm not creating an account with Apple just to make these grayed out icons solid.

Oh were you referring to the iPad mini?

http://store.apple.c...amily/ipad_mini


Heck you can't even run anything but crippled dollar apps on the full iPad!

Even full-fledged OS X can't run any serious Windows real applications! For that it needs to bootcamp or parallels into Windows. Certainly you are not going to find that on the toy iOS.

http://www.zdnet.com...ter-7000011369/

Hologram, on 16 February 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

*Exacerbated, no doubt, by the lack of a user replaceable battery, Microsoft's use of a proprietary charging port "unique" to the Pro, and the need for cooling fans! Two of them! In a tablet!

Then what's good for the goose is also good for the gander? Please show us how *exacerbated, no doubt by the lack of user replaceable battery in any tablet of any denomination, including any Apple mobile iDevices? How they bastardize the micro-HDMI port, as a requirement by law in all EU communities, with an external adaptor to make it compliant to the law? You didn't know it was illegal to have all these proprietary connectors on smartphones? Cooling fans? How can you compare a 550 HP Corvette to a Prius? Will you also complain that it guzzles more gas per mile, and that it is also noisier? After all, the Surface Pro is at least 10x the performance of any iPad. Period. And it can run a LOT more real software.

Now where is the full OS X (with 64-bit CPU) tablet?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
For everything you have missed, you have gained something else.
~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't get my head up my butt.
~ Rob Brezsny

Failure is not our only punishment for laziness: there is also the success of others.
~ Jules Renard

[Hologram]

WinTard, on 16 February 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Hologram, on 16 February 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Quote

thewazak on 02/13/2013 05:04 PM PST said:

It's not that the article bashed MS: it is that the article did not admit Apple is as bad - till the last paragraph! ............

Whoa! That's quite a revealing statement.

Apple is now only "as" bad as Microsoft?

Not long ago, that would have been considered heresy, the writer of such a statement would have been tarred, feathered and chased from PC World Forums. Not so long ago, Apple was considered the ultimate evil empire bent on stripping computer users of their freedom while breaking them financially. On these very pages, Apple's deceased leader was depicted as quite possibly the next CEO of Dante's Inferno.

My, how perception has changed now that the disillusioned are faced with Microsoft's failure to produce an elegant, $249.99 competitor to the iPad capable of running all WIndows desktop applications. Utter disappointment* and a sense of having been betrayed* can do that.

Where do you come up with $249.99?

http://store.apple.c...pad/family/ipad


I'm not creating an account with Apple just to make these grayed out icons solid.

Oh were you referring to the iPad mini?

http://store.apple.c...amily/ipad_mini


Heck you can't even run anything but crippled dollar apps on the full iPad!

Even full-fledged OS X can't run any serious Windows real applications! For that it needs to bootcamp or parallels into Windows. Certainly you are not going to find that on the toy iOS.

http://www.zdnet.com...ter-7000011369/

Hologram, on 16 February 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

*Exacerbated, no doubt, by the lack of a user replaceable battery, Microsoft's use of a proprietary charging port "unique" to the Pro, and the need for cooling fans! Two of them! In a tablet!

Then what's good for the goose is also good for the gander? Please show us how *exacerbated, no doubt by the lack of user replaceable battery in any tablet of any denomination, including any Apple mobile iDevices? How they bastardize the micro-HDMI port, as a requirement by law in all EU communities, with an external adaptor to make it compliant to the law? You didn't know it was illegal to have all these proprietary connectors on smartphones? Cooling fans? How can you compare a 550 HP Corvette to a Prius? Will you also complain that it guzzles more gas per mile, and that it is also noisier? After all, the Surface Pro is at least 10x the performance of any iPad. Period. And it can run a LOT more real software.

Now where is the full OS X (with 64-bit CPU) tablet?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
For everything you have missed, you have gained something else.
~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't get my head up my butt.
~ Rob Brezsny

Failure is not our only punishment for laziness: there is also the success of others.
~ Jules Renard

Holy cow!

I knew my comment would be received with some disapproval, but I honestly didn't expect anybody's head to explode.

Sorry about that!

[Hologram]

WinTard, on 16 February 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

...........

No what I find misleading is that Apple introduces a 4th generation iPad with ultra-slow 128GB Flash storage, running at 1/10 the speed of the Microsoft Surface Pro, and pretends to even be in the same ballpark when comparing a mere crippled golf-cart to a real Smart Car (which can go on highways)...

.............

I don't remember Apple ever claiming the iPad was "in the same ballpark" as any of the many failed Microsoft iterations of the "tablet" computer, including the Surface RT and the Surface Pro.

Apple built its own "ballpark", introduced several new "games" and has no trouble filling the seats. So, no, there is no need for Apple to pretend to be in the same ballpark as Microsoft.

As for Apple using slower memory, I don't know if that's true and I don't really care. If that really is the case, don't you find it amazing that Apple has so finely tuned its hardware and operating system that it offer as a great a user experience as it does while using fewer clock cycles and less power?

It's not all about specifications, but you already know that, don't you?

[WinTard]

Hologram, on 16 February 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

WinTard, on 16 February 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Hologram, on 16 February 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Quote

thewazak on 02/13/2013 05:04 PM PST said:

It's not that the article bashed MS: it is that the article did not admit Apple is as bad - till the last paragraph! ............

Whoa! That's quite a revealing statement.

Apple is now only "as" bad as Microsoft?

Not long ago, that would have been considered heresy, the writer of such a statement would have been tarred, feathered and chased from PC World Forums. Not so long ago, Apple was considered the ultimate evil empire bent on stripping computer users of their freedom while breaking them financially. On these very pages, Apple's deceased leader was depicted as quite possibly the next CEO of Dante's Inferno.

My, how perception has changed now that the disillusioned are faced with Microsoft's failure to produce an elegant, $249.99 competitor to the iPad capable of running all WIndows desktop applications. Utter disappointment* and a sense of having been betrayed* can do that.

Where do you come up with $249.99?

http://store.apple.c...pad/family/ipad


I'm not creating an account with Apple just to make these grayed out icons solid.

Oh were you referring to the iPad mini?

http://store.apple.c...amily/ipad_mini


Heck you can't even run anything but crippled dollar apps on the full iPad!

Even full-fledged OS X can't run any serious Windows real applications! For that it needs to bootcamp or parallels into Windows. Certainly you are not going to find that on the toy iOS.

http://www.zdnet.com...ter-7000011369/

Hologram, on 16 February 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

*Exacerbated, no doubt, by the lack of a user replaceable battery, Microsoft's use of a proprietary charging port "unique" to the Pro, and the need for cooling fans! Two of them! In a tablet!

Then what's good for the goose is also good for the gander? Please show us how *exacerbated, no doubt by the lack of user replaceable battery in any tablet of any denomination, including any Apple mobile iDevices? How they bastardize the micro-HDMI port, as a requirement by law in all EU communities, with an external adaptor to make it compliant to the law? You didn't know it was illegal to have all these proprietary connectors on smartphones? Cooling fans? How can you compare a 550 HP Corvette to a Prius? Will you also complain that it guzzles more gas per mile, and that it is also noisier? After all, the Surface Pro is at least 10x the performance of any iPad. Period. And it can run a LOT more real software.

Now where is the full OS X (with 64-bit CPU) tablet?

~~~~~~~~~~~~
For everything you have missed, you have gained something else.
~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't get my head up my butt.
~ Rob Brezsny

Failure is not our only punishment for laziness: there is also the success of others.
~ Jules Renard

Holy cow!

I knew my comment would be received with some disapproval, but I honestly didn't expect anybody's head to explode.

Sorry about that!

Hey this is only a discussions forum! Isn't this what you are here for? To discuss, learn and share?

Personally, I think it is great fun. Especially when actual facts mirroring reality as it is are brought to light. And are also independently verifiable by anybody. Not just mere biased opinions, without any backing supporting them whatsoever.

Please rest assured nobody's heads exploded...

Peace!

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Humor about the funny things in life:

Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, And Nobody

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.

Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.

Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.

Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.

It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done

[WinTard]

Hologram, on 16 February 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

WinTard, on 16 February 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

...........

No what I find misleading is that Apple introduces a 4th generation iPad with ultra-slow 128GB Flash storage, running at 1/10 the speed of the Microsoft Surface Pro, and pretends to even be in the same ballpark when comparing a mere crippled golf-cart to a real Smart Car (which can go on highways)...

.............

I don't remember Apple ever claiming the iPad was "in the same ballpark" as any of the many failed Microsoft iterations of the "tablet" computer, including the Surface RT and the Surface Pro.

Apple built its own "ballpark", introduced several new "games" and has no trouble filling the seats. So, no, there is no need for Apple to pretend to be in the same ballpark as Microsoft.

As for Apple using slower memory, I don't know if that's true and I don't really care. If that really is the case, don't you find it amazing that Apple has so finely tuned its hardware and operating system that it offer as a great a user experience as it does while using fewer clock cycles and less power?

It's not all about specifications, but you already know that, don't you?

Actually, in my discipline and professional field (deformation perhaps) has led me to trust metrics, or specifications as you call them. I have absolutely no regards for wildly varying subjective assessments such as the Apple Experience, whatever that is. It's like saying pink is better than purple, or that a strawberry is better than an apple.

Technically you are right, Apple didn't say "in the same ballpark", ever. However, if one reads between the lines, almost everywhere in the media, there is an army of Apple aficionados (and I respect that) saying things just like you did.

Things such as:

Hologram said:

My, how perception has changed now that the disillusioned are faced with Microsoft's failure to produce an elegant, $249.99 competitor to the iPad capable of running all WIndows desktop applications. Utter disappointment* and a sense of having been betrayed* can do that.

You see, Apple didn't say it? But you did? You want us to compare the Surface Pro to a mere crippled iPad (regardless of price) for only $250? Capable of running the entire Windows ecosystem no less? Really?

What do you expect?

~~~~~~~~~~
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.
~ Roy L. Smith

The game of life is the game of boomerangs. Our thoughts, deeds and words return to us sooner or later, with astounding accuracy.
~ Florence Scovel Shinn

You are surrounded by simple, obvious solutions that can dramatically increase your income, power, influence and success. The problem is, you just don't see them.
~ Jay Abraham

Well, when geek means that you’re willing to study things, and if you think science and engineering matter, then I plead guilty, gladly. Also, I kinda hang around with people who are like that. In our work, numbers give you the sense of scale, and then you meet the individual mothers and children and farmers. So yes, it’s good. If your culture doesn’t like geeks, you are in real trouble.
~ Globe-trotting philanthropist and former Microsoft CEO Bill Gates, in an interview with The Telegraph (United Kingdom), defends the honor of pencil-necks everywhere.

[Hologram]

WinTard, on 16 February 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hologram, on 16 February 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

WinTard, on 16 February 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

...........

No what I find misleading is that Apple introduces a 4th generation iPad with ultra-slow 128GB Flash storage, running at 1/10 the speed of the Microsoft Surface Pro, and pretends to even be in the same ballpark when comparing a mere crippled golf-cart to a real Smart Car (which can go on highways)...

.............

I don't remember Apple ever claiming the iPad was "in the same ballpark" as any of the many failed Microsoft iterations of the "tablet" computer, including the Surface RT and the Surface Pro.

Apple built its own "ballpark", introduced several new "games" and has no trouble filling the seats. So, no, there is no need for Apple to pretend to be in the same ballpark as Microsoft.

As for Apple using slower memory, I don't know if that's true and I don't really care. If that really is the case, don't you find it amazing that Apple has so finely tuned its hardware and operating system that it offer as a great a user experience as it does while using fewer clock cycles and less power?

It's not all about specifications, but you already know that, don't you?

Actually, in my discipline and professional field (deformation perhaps) has led me to trust metrics, or specifications as you call them.

And therein lies part of the problem. Your discipline and profession represents but a small subset of the knowledge and skills necessary when trying to understand what makes the world go 'round. To you, it may appear to be the sum total of human knowledge, but I assure you it is not. Quite possibly, much of the FUD you rail against and try to warn the world about is simply beyond your level of interest and understanding, so it appears nonsensical to you.

Quote

I have absolutely no regards for wildly varying subjective assessments such as the Apple Experience, whatever that is. It's like saying pink is better than purple, or that a strawberry is better than an apple.

If, indeed what you say is true, that s your loss. You will never be able to understand or even accept what motivates people to make decisions different from your own. Pink may not be better than purple, or a strawberry may not be better than an apple, yet we make those decisions every day without knowing and comparing the wavelengths of the competing colours nor the specific nutritional value of different foods.

Sounds like you're happy monitoring the process to ensure that that the input parameters were correctly read and that the output to the process was according to specification. I would suggest that a better way to gauge performance would be to monitor the effect on the process itself. In other words, it doesn't matter what speed a component operates at, the net effect is really what's important.

This post has been edited by Hologram: 17 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

[Hologram]

WinTard, on 16 February 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hologram, on 16 February 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

WinTard, on 16 February 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

...........

No what I find misleading is that Apple introduces a 4th generation iPad with ultra-slow 128GB Flash storage, running at 1/10 the speed of the Microsoft Surface Pro, and pretends to even be in the same ballpark when comparing a mere crippled golf-cart to a real Smart Car (which can go on highways)...

.............

I don't remember Apple ever claiming the iPad was "in the same ballpark" as any of the many failed Microsoft iterations of the "tablet" computer, including the Surface RT and the Surface Pro.

Apple built its own "ballpark", introduced several new "games" and has no trouble filling the seats. So, no, there is no need for Apple to pretend to be in the same ballpark as Microsoft.

.....

....

Technically you are right, Apple didn't say "in the same ballpark", ever. However, if one reads between the lines, almost everywhere in the media, there is an army of Apple aficionados (and I respect that) saying things just like you did.

Things such as:

Hologram said:

My, how perception has changed now that the disillusioned are faced with Microsoft's failure to produce an elegant, $249.99 competitor to the iPad capable of running all WIndows desktop applications. Utter disappointment* and a sense of having been betrayed* can do that.

You see, Apple didn't say it? But you did? You want us to compare the Surface Pro to a mere crippled iPad (regardless of price) for only $250? Capable of running the entire Windows ecosystem no less? Really?

What do you expect?

I expected nothing from Microsoft and they delivered exactly that with the Surface tablets, so I wasn't disappointed.

On the other hand, those who, upon seeing the iPad, expected Microsoft to "kill" it with an inexpensive tablet capable of running full Windows applications must be terribly disappointed. I didn't make that comparison and I had no such unrealistic expectation. The $250.00 price point was thrown around by those same unrealistic armchair critics, not by me.

What I fail to understand is why non user replaceable batteries and a proprietary charging port unique to the SURFACE PRO are a no longer deal breakers now that Microsoft has adopted the same design solutions as Apple was once demonized for.

Microsoft has brought nothing new to the tablet fight. The Surface Pro is the same old "laptop with a touchscreen now with a (crappy) detachable keyboard" package Microsoft has been peddling for the last fifteen years. Newer technology, newer operating system, newer manufacturing methods that once would have been unthinkable, yes, but nothing conceptually new.

[BobHome]

Quote

MacNewton said
WinTard my dear friend, please don't take what I say personally, but Apples computers will always be top drawer, well engineered and have a very long life. With 30 years (or more) in this industry I have seen it all. I'm not sure what your story is and I don't really care. I have Mac's and a few PC's that I purchased years ago that still work very well thank you. The PC's the still work (when turned on) were custom built by me. Each composite that I installed into the PC's where Top of the line and when I installed them I used an anti-static wristband and had a workbench anti-static service mat. As for the Mac's the only thing I needed to install was more RAM and Hard drives. Of course I have serviced hundreds of PC's and Mac's I can I can tell you without any Bull$#^% that most of the PC's used very low-end OEM factory components. In The 80's When HP, IBM & Compaq were in business they did produces some very good product. Interesting fact when PC's of that time period used MS-DOS you could get years of production out of them without too much trouble. Today if you buy an HP your lucky to get a year out of it. NOW BACK TO THE PRO After looking at the photos of the Surface Pro, It's not looking too good, the logic-board looks a lot like the low-end Thailand tablet that I just picked up for $50.00. I believe the Pro was manufactured by Shenzhen Ananda Technology in Shenzhen,China. Side note: I see that a month after they released the RT they get sued! On November 14, 2012, Microsoft was sued by a Los Angeles lawyer for false advertising and unfair business practices due to the fact that about half of the total * disk space on his 32 GB Surface RT tablet was being used by the operating system, applications, and recovery data Microsoft said in a statement that it believes the suit is without merit, because it had advertised the discrepancy on its website. MAKES YOU THINK WHAT OTHER DISINFORMATION THEY HAVE HAVE RELEASED. I'm sure they should have used the word RAM or memory and not disk space. A good lawyer will get MS off because of the error... Well, please do not take any of the following personally. My stated purpose is to debunk FUD. That's why I joined PC World back in January 2009. As evidenced by my number of posts, I suppose I've debunked LOTS of FUD to date? And I'm only getting started. And not just on PC World. He he... Oh, please pay attention to the http://www.microsoft.../specifications ports: [ ]Full-size USB 2.0[ ]microSDXC card slot[ ]Headset jack[ ]HD video out port[*]Cover portAnd the http://www.microsoft.../specifications ports: [ ]Full-size USB 3.0[ ]microSDXC card slot[ ]Headset jack[ ]Mini DisplayPort[*]Cover portDo you note the Full-size USB port? You can attach virtually anything USB to that port. Including (like I do) a 3TB external USB-3 drive? Or a 128 GB memory stick for $60? What about that microSDXC card slot? Just like in a camera for instance? Isn't that infinitely expandable storage in your opinion? Whereas, you can do none of this with any iPad. Period. And these are mere facts. Just facts. So what was the problem regarding limited storage with Microsoft Surface tablets? Only Apple is limited in storage. That too is a fact. ~~~~~~~~~~ Efficiency is intelligent laziness. ~ David Dunham Laziness is the mother of efficiency ~ Marian Propp Laziness may appear attractive, but work gives satisfaction. ~ Anne Frank Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work done. ~ Linus Torvalds

[BobHome]

I think there is one point people may be missing when comparing thenSurface Pro to other computing devices, that is is really a shrunk down Windows computer. Now when you hear the specs for a desktop computer and it has a 1 GB hard drive, do you instantly think 'it has a billion bytes to store my stuff'? No, you automatically know it is less because of the space taken by the OS and packaged programs, drivers, etc.
Nuff said.

[MrHistamine]

Hologram, on 17 February 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

WinTard, on 16 February 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Hologram, on 16 February 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

WinTard, on 16 February 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

...........

No what I find misleading is that Apple introduces a 4th generation iPad with ultra-slow 128GB Flash storage, running at 1/10 the speed of the Microsoft Surface Pro, and pretends to even be in the same ballpark when comparing a mere crippled golf-cart to a real Smart Car (which can go on highways)...

.............

I don't remember Apple ever claiming the iPad was "in the same ballpark" as any of the many failed Microsoft iterations of the "tablet" computer, including the Surface RT and the Surface Pro.

Apple built its own "ballpark", introduced several new "games" and has no trouble filling the seats. So, no, there is no need for Apple to pretend to be in the same ballpark as Microsoft.

As for Apple using slower memory, I don't know if that's true and I don't really care. If that really is the case, don't you find it amazing that Apple has so finely tuned its hardware and operating system that it offer as a great a user experience as it does while using fewer clock cycles and less power?

It's not all about specifications, but you already know that, don't you?

Actually, in my discipline and professional field (deformation perhaps) has led me to trust metrics, or specifications as you call them.

And therein lies part of the problem. Your discipline and profession represents but a small subset of the knowledge and skills necessary when trying to understand what makes the world go 'round. To you, it may appear to be the sum total of human knowledge, but I assure you it is not. Quite possibly, much of the FUD you rail against and try to warn the world about is simply beyond your level of interest and understanding, so it appears nonsensical to you.

Quote

I have absolutely no regards for wildly varying subjective assessments such as the Apple Experience, whatever that is. It's like saying pink is better than purple, or that a strawberry is better than an apple.

If, indeed what you say is true, that s your loss. You will never be able to understand or even accept what motivates people to make decisions different from your own. Pink may not be better than purple, or a strawberry may not be better than an apple, yet we make those decisions every day without knowing and comparing the wavelengths of the competing colours nor the specific nutritional value of different foods.

Sounds like you're happy monitoring the process to ensure that that the input parameters were correctly read and that the output to the process was according to specification. I would suggest that a better way to gauge performance would be to monitor the effect on the process itself. In other words, it doesn't matter what speed a component operates at, the net effect is really what's important.

So, based on your comments, the Surface would be the better device; the net capabilities of the Surface vs. the iPad, are much greater. Of course, gauging the performance of your prefered tablet is purely subjective; you may find the iPad features and performance good enough, but I'm pretty sure there are others that do not (and prefer the features, and performance of a Windows or Android device).